1. I always thought this battle was a cry for help from ERB. 2. They don't even bother to ask who won. The outro feels so ominous. 3. They're independent now starting this newest season, so now I feel like my first point was valid.
I think it's very interesting to look at the Henson vs Lee beat from the perspective of a musician. They played around with something they don't tend to play around with: the use of the snare drum. Henson's beat uses it and it gives it a very laid-back feel, fitting to his character. It's calm but it still moves along. Disney's beat uses it for power; it's very driving. I actually appreciate the fact that his beat was slow because it made things very intense and, in a way, "heavy". It'd be hard to imagine Disney as a fast, fleet-footed rapper. That would feel very quick and light. What they chose to use is more or less the rap beat version of an elephant: it's slow, yes, but with every beat (or step) it takes, the ground shakes. It added a level of intensity and power that wouldn't have been there with a faster rap or faster beat. But what I found most interesting about the beat was Stan Lee's part. At first listen, something about Lee's verses sounded off to me, and then it finally hit me: there is no snare drum in his part of the beat. Either it's just the bass drum, or it's the bass drum on the 2 and 4, where the snare would normally be. Stan Lee has this very frantic feel about him, and that's what the lack of a snare drum is doing. It's dissolving most of the structure that a beat would normally have to create this feeling of lack of control. When Lee apologizes, the bass drum hits become very infrequent, to let some of the tension fade away.
HarryPotter2875 amazing musical analysis. I forgot to mention how the jim henson part kindof made me feel like it was moving along down sesame street. Maybe I'll have to look more into the musical element next time for future analyses
I really enjoy these videos, it's really awesome to see someone who has actually taken a kind of academic approach to analyzing these rap battles instead of just, "that line was really good".
With the Mickey shirt, the two Mickey plushes, and that Disney Fastpass in Jack Frost vs Elsa, are we sure that you're not paid by Disney for product placement?
Great video! I agree with you on everything. I thought George Lucas and John Lasseter would appear in this somehow. My favorite line was "I'm powerful enough to make a mouse gigantic." That line is brilliant & I never thought of Mickey like that.
The picture of Roy Disney that was shown was not Walt's brother. His brother *was* named Roy, but his name was Roy *O* Disney. The picture shown was Roy *E* Disney, Roy O. Disney's son and Walt's nephew.
I respect you so much for caring more about being fair towards the series you love than making money off of their content. Don't get me wrong, I absolutely love your videos and what you do here is unique and entertaining in it's own way entirely. Plus, it's your insightful thought process and commentary that keeps us here, even if some people click the videos just because they're ERB fans. You definitely deserve all the growth you've been getting recently. Stay amazing and keep doing what you're doing!
Kat Mosier thank you so much! I owe a lot to ERB, and seeing that the first analysis was a little unfair, I developed the respect factor they are endowed with. I'm happy you appreciate all the work I do. you stay amazing as well! stick around for more
"Moving right along down the road" was also a reference to a Muppet song called "Moving Right Along." Many Muppet films are about the Muppets taking their show to different places, via road trips.
In the early days they worked their American animators unconscionably long hours for mediocre (at best) pay. In modern decades that all moved offshore.
First off, I really, really enjoy your videos and analyses. You spot things I didn't even think of (how did I miss the Sesame Street melody?!). Really, really awesome stuff. I guess I had the same reaction that you had with this battle--underwhelmed at first, but then completely awed. And then the more I thought about it, this was really the only way you could portray this battle successfully and memorably. Season 4 was the best season, in my books, because for every battle,Peter, Lloyd, Zach, Dante, and everyone else tried something completely different and original. Be it lego animation, philosophers bickering amongst themselves, or a magician getting flat-out rejected, there was something unique to every battle. I actually thought the real Muppets were going to appear, to promote their show, and that Mary Doodles was going to be a Disney Princess or something. But there's only so much you could humanly do, and let's face it--you can't beat Disney or the idea of Disney. Really, the only guy who has a shot at having a successful rap battle with Disney is either God or Jesus Christ. This battle was so dark, as it blended fun burns with honest-to-God sentimentality, and then a cold reality. It was awful. It was strangely funny. It was satire. And it was totally unique. Had they taken the expected route--characters on both sides jumping in, to the point we had a battle royale--it would have been fun, but nowhere near as memorable. The whimsical stuff was meant for Seuss vs. Shakespeare, the awesome animation was meant for Zeus vs. Thor, and the many characters was meant for the Russian battle (and they tried something similar with the Directors battle, but that battle was nowhere near as memorable as the Russians, as it had to follow that tough act).
Ryan M I'm surprised so many people missed the Sesame Street Medley! I'm happy to have your analysis in the comments - I agree that it seems weird to think of Zach portraying that different Disney - but I was still looking for it. Nice rhetoric in describing how dark and unmatched this battle is.
I love to watch this serie, everytime i hear your thoughts i am like "that's exactly what i was thinking!" I hope to see some ERB videos before season 5,like your perfect season 5 with your own match-ups Great work as always!
omg, this is the type of reaction videos I want to see. where you really take the time and effort into analysing the whole thing. amazing. you've just got yourself a new subscriber. now all I have to do is go back to see your other videos. carry on the great work
the tragic thing with Jim was he passed from something completely curable. his natural medicine ideology kept him from going to a hospital. his whimsy with an Archaic style is an incredible feat.
As usual, great analysis! Im always really hyped for these vids, but I am also very hyped about the upcoming album. You really are a talented guy and I'll make sure that I keep supporting you in any way I can!
+Mat4yo The thing that always amazes me is how you can take a battle (even if you didn't write it, edit it, act in it, or even rap in it) and still analyze it perfectly. You understand all the lines and raps, and I've actually found out some hidden meanings in epic rap battles that I've learned from you. Like the "The Way" line from Eastern Philosophers vs Western Philosophers. Keep up the good work, and don't let any hater bug you. Thanks. 😀 P.S. Your rap battles and your original songs are very catchy and amazing. Keep making them. My favorite rap battle of yours was.... I can't really decide. I think Hermoine vs Angel. And my favorite song of yours was Smash God. 😉
+Mat4yo I also like how you don't just analyze the lyrics, you pay attention to the video. Like, The Walt Disney eye and dress shirt same color thing. I NEVER noticed that.
I know old video but the line "labor conditions in my shop? I don't sweat them!" Is actually two fold as when Disney started out in the beginning the place th eu created all their work didn't have any form of air conditioning or Windows as it was basically a back room and it could get extremely hot in the room to the point people actually sweated heavily and need to drink a lot of water to avoid overheating.
great analysis. 29:30 absolutely scared me the first time I saw it. There was no escaping the violence in that face and the way he shove-turns-around both men to see what he's built.
I just found out about you, and I already really like this series from only 2 episodes. You have earned yourself a new sub! Here's to 5,000 and beyond!
I was in all serious and loving it, hooked on every word, serious as death and the plagues' illegitimate child, three seconds later cracking up on the still my bedroom thing. great analysis, and your content is ALWAYS spot on. I do hope to see more chisels of fan battles, either things like that one with the send ins or the ordinary ERBP and extensions. Some Epic Rap Battles of Comic Books maybe?
what if erb just drove up to your house and yelled in a mega phone "Nice peter: GO CHISEL YOUR OWN RAPS" then Lloyd said "YEA GO CHISEL YOURSELF" and drove off
+Tyren Theman then I would lol.. I think they appreciate this more than they appreciate the ones simply watching their videos and making money off their reactions... see the sidebar
This was the first of your videos I ever seen, and honestly, I'm hooked! I love how you broke this down. I loved how much thought you put into it. Great job!
I couldn't agree more with your disappointment that we will never see the gentle, fun-loving Walt Disney. I really hoped to see that in this battle. As for your new album, I'm so pumped. It's amazing how far you've come. Everyone has a youtuber they aspire to be like, and for me it's you. (I lack the talents you have, as I still try to find mine) I love the way you and other rappers are redefining rap. I can't wait for whats coming next on your journey to 10k, 100k, 500k+ subs. (Fanboy-ish rant over)
Tmain my man! thank you for all your support. keep working on your craft and, as I said, you'll find what's best for you. Hoping my album inspires you to do more also - and everything else on the journey
i know this is like five years ago but like.. Honestly I really liked how walt's lines were slow. mostly because it felt like the disney corp will take your idea. either it be through grabbing your hand and shaking it Or drag you kicking and screaming
I think the reason Mickey wasn't in it, (other then because they didn't go for the hole set up you mentioned at the beginning that everybody thought was gonna happen) is because there's some Micky mouse law. Which means you can't portray the mouse yourself, because Disney owns the idea and concept of him. Which might also be why when Zack draws the three circle version, he doesn't do it perfectly.
I'm aware Disney owns maker studios by the way, but erb could still get in some trouble because they aren't owned directly by Disney. Also, they probably wouldn't be happy with their most famous character rapping and dissing other things they own.
William Deibert that's an interesting idea, but I think Disney Company would grant the rights of their character to something that would make them money like this.
Really appreciate it when you analyse ERBs in such depth seeing as I'm taking Media Studies into my final year. Your work helps make certain aspects of media like this more apparent to me. :D
Mat4yo Thanks for replying man! Like I say, it's really useful. You don't just point out the obvious, but explain exactly why lines are worded the way they are and how they work.
Your channel, I really like it, I think it´s made to see the videos of ERBOH first, think about them, and after "processing them" by ourselves, go and see what else can I learn about it, or to see an interesting point of view. My regards! Nice work!
Siren Hound You're making me sad too.. I miss the Monday Shows. Don't worry, I won't lose touch with my supporters. thanks for appreciating the series!
Wow, this is great! Can't wait to see your favorite and least favorite ERBs. Also, I wanted to hear your opinion, what do you think of season of ERB as a whole compared to the other seasons? What's the best season? The worst?
Awesome analysis as always. Don't worry, i checked the videos you want to known for (your rap battles) back then, and it was pretty good. Keep up the good work and good luck :D
Sticking to the theme that our bodies are temporary but our ideas are forever: Walt Disney's body (or likeness rather) became a symbol used by the company to pasify people into buying their products. So in some ways he mirrors Jim Henson in that he didn't live to see his work corrupted, but he's also his own in that his memory was manipulated and corrupted in the process. George Lucas would have been an interesting addition in that his work was corrupted in part by his own hand.
I'd be cool for Walt Vs Disney and this Walt turned out to be like robot reprecenting the current corporation and then ghost Walt comes in as his pure view
Jaymes Shoreman there were a LOT of references to marvel characters. Vision for example. I tried to stay away from all that simple reference ideology in the storybooking because it's pretty obvious and doesn't alter the story in anyway.
Mat4yo I didn't really feel that the word vision was a reference to the character in this battle. Otherwise yeah I understand what you're saying. Love your videos btw and thanks for replying :)
Fun fact: the beats used in the background symbolize the three rappers. The beat for Lee and Henson is "Stay Fly" from Hollywood Legend, symbolizing the fact that the two creators creations with always stay cool or "fly" with the public. The beat for Disney is "Poison" by the same company, signifying the fact that the corporate influence may have corrupted or poisoned the creations of the two rappers.
Mat4yo Yeah it was kinda monotonous but fun in a way to pick through Hollywood Legend Beats, Allrounda, Sean Murdz and Tristan on the Track to find some of the beats used in ERB.
Great video. Agree with most of what you said here; I really like the battle but Disney has SO MUCH MORE POTENTIAL OH MY GOD. Same goes with Da Vinci. Anyway thanks for including the raw reaction link in the description much appreciated. Meat4yo thanks Mat4yo and is excited for your original raps and whatever original content you will bring to the table.
In the lines, "I'm impressed by all the vision that it took for you to sign your name on all of Jack Kirby's comic books," it's also worth pointing out, whether intentional or not, that there is a double entendre in the word 'vision.' Of course the implication is that Henson is mocking Lee's artistic integrity and creativity by facetiously claiming that he's impressed by his artistic vision, but there's a more superficial joke there implying that Lee is so old that Henson is impressed that his eyesight allows him the vision necessary to even write his own name.
I think the best part about this battle was Jim's voice. My friend has a VHS tape of jim henson talking and using kermit and Peter's henson is spot on.
Excellent analysis as usual. I would say "see you next ERB season", but the rest of your content is just as good. King of the Basement is underrated and very well written, hope you get more exposure for stuff like that.
Yet another great Chisel This! by you man, good work. My theory about this battle was that they intended to make it so the Disney corporation was using the persona of Walt Disney as a puppet, or maybe even a Muppet.
Actually, Henson tried to get Disney to by the Muppets before he died. He felt that Disney would be able to take care of his creations after his time came to pass.
If Walt wasn't a businessman but was still in the battle I could him see coming out of a Castle and telling Henson and Lee that hes the true King of the imagination.
Stan Lee was lost potential in my opinion. Some of the most well-received ERBs are ones that pit two characters with contrasting ideals that share a similar work (i.e. Mozart vs Skrillex, Shakespeare vs Dr.Seuss). The initial, title comparison between these two charaters is that they both provide entertainment for children. It's not until Disney comes in is it realized that the both are owned by the company. If Jim Henson was used for the idea that was discussed in this video, pairing him against Walt Disney and then each of them using their creations respectively, then it would have not only created a completely different battle, but also given an opportunity to use Stan Lee in a different match-up. A battle that would see him go against a writer of a different genre. To compare and contrast superheros with a more mature form of writing. Regardless of what was just said, this battle also introduces an idea that isn't really seen with others. The fact that both rappers' work has become under ownership of the Disney Company propels this match-up to be more then just entertainer vs entertainer. If Jim Henson went up against the mind behind DC Comics, it wouldn't have provided the chance to create the ending this battle did with Disney, because Disney don't own DC. It's only because of the real-world situation of Disney having the rights to both these men's IP does the comparison between the two hold. Most of the other chracters in ERB have independently created the name for themselves in order to be worthy of being in a battle against another. And while Stan Lee and Jim Henson did both do that, it was the actions of a third party that intially put them together in this battle in the first place.
***** very interesting. I agree, and it's interesting to think that the matchup is glued together by an external factor. Nice analysis fellow Chiseler!
I appreciate the fact that you mentioned Zach's facial expressions. They are really intense in this rap battle, and the theme behind his lyrics actually kind of upsets me. Guess I just don't want the 'Disney Magic' to die. Also, I like how they made Stan and Jim look a bit scared and concerned.
The thing about Henson that you got wrong was the fact he "didn't live to see his company sold to disney". Before he died he was PLANNING to sell to Disney(with him as a creative consultant being a part of the contract). Him dying changed everything and that's why Disney got the Muppets much later. It was the plan before Jim died that Disney would get the Muppets. Also, I do slightly agree, but the only person I think of that would of fit the "Business" role better would of been Michael Eisner, but normal folk don't know a lot about him and his shortcomings so that would of been slightly dumb. As you said in this video "It's not about replicating the person, it's about making characters". Sometimes you have to fudge things a bit to get the message you want out there.
Great video, ;D for the 32 second advertisment i would recommend Addblock :3 haha. Looking forward to more ERB content and some gameplay with the other guys also cant wait for your new rap . Thanks for making these videos
Since you later showed that you picked up the stuff in the little confusion clip, the only bit not touched on is bupkis. "Bupkis" is a yiddish term often used in informal American English. It means "nothing," I loved the Mickey Mouse Club beat/reference...
You are surely doing a great job at analysis. As of battle itself, I loved it despite having a blurred concept on who Lee or Henson actually are - I'm not into comic books, and I don't know much of Henson's creations (we had Sesame Street in Russia though - it ran on STS during early 2000s and had a catchy theme song). As of Disney... well, I agree he stands in for vision on modern The Walt Disney Company rather than representing actual Mr. Walt Disney. There is also a nice little detail - I read somwhere on the web that Kermit was a letout for Henson's inner cynic in a way. Now, Mr. Mat Four Yo (or whatever), I want to say you an enormous thanks for clearing out the details of this battle. You see, after watching original ERB, i watch Russian translation of it by Vyacheslav Kotov. He's doing a GREAT job at translating any video that has some type of poetry in it (he had his original poems published in books and that's saying something) and usually leaves commentaries in video descriptions that make them easier to understand. With this battle, however, he didn't (was too lazy). You did it for him there. Also, nice mouse impression.
r1nkam3991 thank you! I'm happy I could clear everything up for you in the way I did. And thanks about the impression, it's just a gimmick but glad you liked it XD
When you mentioned the 30 seconds of Straight Outta Compton advertisements, I just lost it, but it's true. I attempted to watch one the other day and when the advertisement came on, I just left the video and then went back to it hoping there wouldn't be that advertisement. After about 10 attempts of doing so, I finally gave up and let it happen.
Teamavatar112 yep, it's impossible to avoid. I wouldn't mind watching it once, but it was every single time. every single video. Usually, the formula gives you a break to keep you on the website but not here. lol happy I could make you laugh
I understand the "thinking people are dead" statement, because I've had that a few times. For example, I knew DiCaprio did "Titanic", but I didn't know, until a few years back, that he was still doing movies. I actually believed he was dead.
The matchup surprised me, too. I was so looking forward to Jim Henson vs Walt Disney. But, it doesn't really matter. It's their series. I still greatly enjoyed the battle, just as I greatly enjoyed this video. By the way, I'm really looking forward to that reading hate comments video. I can already tell it's gonna be filled with awful grammar and lots of laughs.
Given that ERB season is now over, any chance you could tackle another Moleman's Epic Rap Battles during the coming hiatus? I've in particular made three newer ones in the past several months that I would prefer you review.
I first hated you bc you were really negative about the 2nd and 3rd battle... Now i really really like you and your videos bc you go really deep into the battles and explain them really well. Keep up the good work Matt ;-)
The light on your tv was distracting me for a while lol. But i've been watching some of your older videos and you've definitely been improving. Your analysis really open my mind. Can't wait for more videos.
Waddster hey I try to keep the background busy for when you get bored with looking at me. lol and yes I'm developing with each episode how to appeal to several types of minds and opinions in this video, I spoke for those who wished to see George Lucas, even though I think he only fit half of the theme
Mat4yo That was the fastest i've ever seen a youtuber reply to a comment. I didn't know Disney owned Maker studios or Lucas Films until I saw this. Kinda sad to hear that, but oh well. Business is business. Don't forget to leave the tv like that next time or I might get bored and wander off into the dark.
Mat4yo I was forced to watch the straight out of Compton ad on my phone that didn't have any more gigs so my service slowed my speed. Took me like 10 seconds to load 4 seconds. All I wanted to do was show my dad some erb. Just thought it was funny that you mentioned that.
Firs time I came across it, and you seem pretty knowledgeable. The things I wanted to broach is though is you mentioned Stan Lee being around long enough to see what was done with his work, yet you neglected that he already sold off his rights in 1998, profiting from the corporate American (it wasn't to Marvel) before he passed. Letting others own his IP... basically playing right into Disney's vision directly. Also, people forget, when Henson was alive he was negotiation with the WDC on a partnership, but it fell apart when Henson died. When Disney did buy the Muppets (not the whole Jim Henson Company), they were not in good financial straights at all and it was more of a mercy purchase to keep the company Alive.
Jon Perry I don't think either person's involvement in trade deals that would allow them to profit from their IP is something that factors into the theme. The theme is omnipresent in the battle, and factors such as these (while they're worth mentioning) are not important enough to cause a break or shift in that theme.regardless of the business decisions of either man, the theme takes a stance of something that overlooks their trivial business history and looks at two things: their IPs existing, and their IPs being rebranded.
Hey mat, i want you to go to the "Jim Henson vs Stan lee" battle and watch closely from 4:56 to 5:06, In the season one panel there's different footage of Kim jong il vs Hulk Hogan... I thought it was pretty interesting and if you havent seen it you should go look at it, BTW i love your videos and this was an amazing analysis, Cant wait for season 5
Very nice! You never fail to analyse these battles to the very last detail! Although you said that you're "not a reactor" I still think you should include your full reaction at the end. (I can tell that it must have been annoying to edit in those chissle things, you missed putting them on screen at some points throughout the video xD)
Dasc Swem I did include my full reaction!!!! check the description and the end of the video i plan on explaining one day how IMPOSSIBLE editing these videos are. It took me 16 hours to make this one, and with the way that some timeline objects either connect or disconnect, I wound up spending 3 hours going back and fixing all the chisel pauses that got screwed up. I'll figure it out eventually.
![[Critical Analysis] Jim Henson vs Stan Lee. Epic Rap Battles of History. Chisel This!](/img/logo.svg){kind=logo}
