Cultish: The Baha'i Faith: A Critical Examination, Pt. 2 

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Thank you so much, after watching these two videos I now know what I needed to do. Just talked to my local bahai center today and I'm planning to declare myself as a Baha'i! Ya Baha'u'l-Abha!

I know the Baha'is and they are lovely people!

You are one of the first people in history to create critical and balance views of the Faith that I've come across. This is really helpful content for those of us who grew up in toxic Bahai settings but can't quote explain to others what was so off about our upbringing and experiences

This is a blessing and right on time. My production company just got a gig filming a documentary with a director that is of the bahai faith. God's timing is incredible

As a former Baha’i, I found this presentation much more accurate and thorough than many other critiques of the Faith. Steve has really done his homework here: he knew about the 3 other Bábs in Shaykhism that came before the one Bahá’ís recognize today, as well as a lot about the historical and textual revisionism. You were speculating on what you might say to a Bahá’í to get him questioning things. I feel that arguments over doctrinal differences with Christianity are a kind of “rabbit hole,” as you put it. People will always argue over those issues, even within Christianity. Instead, bring up the inconsistencies, contradictions, omissions, and revisionism within the Bahá’í teachings themselves. For example, when I first learned about the faith, I was taught that all the nine Manifestations were sent by God, were equal in their “essential“ stations, and differed only by their message for that day. However, what Bahá’ís actually believe is that Bahá’u’lláh is “the lote tree beyond which there is no passing,” the closest you can get to the unknowable God, and that he, in a state of pre-existence, sent all the previous Manifestations. In other words, with regard to the parable of the vineyard in which the master of the vineyard sends each of his messengers (including his own son) one by one to get the workers in the vineyard to take proper care of it, and who, in the end, comes to the vineyard himself to destroy it, Bahá’ís don’t believe Bahá’u’lláh to be one of the messengers as you might expect: they believe that he is the master of the vineyard. Also, when Jesus says, “I can of mine own self do nothing…but the will of my Father which hath sent me,” Bahá’ís believe Bahá’u’lláh is the Father. Whereas at first we’re taught he’s just the latest in a series of equal Manifestations and that you shouldn’t worship the lamp, but the light inside, soon you’re singing songs like “Would you give your soul to Bahá’u’lláh“ -and you realize he’s not just seen as a Messenger, but worshiped like God Himself. Another thing that got me questioning the official narrative is that I was able to find several passages of the Bayán that Bahá’ís don’t talk about: the Báb taught that non-Bábís weren’t allowed to own property in Iran, that their homes should be confiscated, and that all non-Bábí books should be burned; he forbade the study of the sciences, and said that Bábís must take over Iran by holy war. As Steve pointed out, he also taught that the one whom God will make manifest (whom Bahá’ís regard as Bahá’u’lláh) would not appear for another 1500 to 2000 years. After I learned this, I brought it up during the consultation at our local feast to see if it was accurate. The LSA just kind of sadly shook their heads and didn’t respond. Afterwards, a Persian man came up to me and said, “Suppose this is all true, what do you plan to do about it?” I told him I wasn’t planning to do anything, but that accepting Bahá’u’lláh as an infallible Manifestation of God meant also accepting 8 other previous Manifestations as infallible, and that we couldn’t do that if we’re only getting provided sanitized snippets and excerpts from their writings. Another thing that wore me down over time was realizing that, since teaching the faith is a Bahá’í’s primary duty, I was so busy promoting it and being a “dynamic force of example” for it, that I had no opportunity to form my own independent thoughts and beliefs on anything. You’re even expected to notify them if you’re going out of town. It’s ironic that you said shunning wasn’t a Christian idea, though. I first became interested in Bahá’ísm after leaving my father’s United Pentecostal church, which is every bit as shunning and legalistic as Bahá’ís can be. I was attracted to the idea of being able to work on eradicating racial and religious prejudice and helping to establish world peace instead of letting this planet go to hell by placing my entire hope in the afterlife. While I realized the mere act of existing in a material world necessitates conflicting objectives and strife, there had to be some constructive purpose to it beyond merely hoping to get it over with as soon as possible so we could get to Heaven. I was never a covenant breaker with the Bahá’ís, though. I just stopped going, and that was enough for most of them to write me off. It’s sad, because there were some beautiful aspects of it, and I don’t hate it. I still believe in the oneness of God and mankind, and that we all pray to the same God no matter what mistaken ideas we might have about Him, because there’s only one God. But I needed to be able to actually independently investigate the truth, instead of just pretending to.

Hello there I just sat through part 1 and 2 of your program about the Baha'i faith. I am a Baha'i and I enjoyed watching your program. There were many accurate descriptions but also many inaccurate descriptions. I am at a lost what to comment on since it would take too long. The problems in the Bahai faith as was presented, if presented and explained in context are fully logically explainable. Baha'is want unity and not uniformity. We love the fact that you are a faithful Christian just as much as we love the fact when someone is a faithful Muslim or a Hindu. It is somewhat inaccurate for a Baha'i to say you can be a Christian and a Baha'i or you can be a Muslim and a Baha'i, but it is very much true that you can be a Bahai and love Christ and believe in Christianity or you can be a Baha'i and still love Muhammad or Buddha. There is so much to comment on but for now suffice to say that your program only scratched the surface and much of what it touched on was somewhat inaccurate. Still loved your program and will watch more of it in the future. Peace!

Thank you for this discussion! It has come at the right time.

Yeah I nearly fell victim spiritually into the cult of the Baha’i faith

Steve and I(Trevor Wolfe) have done a lot of work together on this faith. Steve and I started the group Witnessing to Baha'is. I have some videos on my page and plan to do more.

I'm a Muslim, but I really appreciate Trevor's exposure of the Baha'i teachings. Everyone is entitled to believe as they wish, but others have the right to question those beliefs. Trevor does a great job in this respect - without hatred or condescension. He just sticks to the facts. Good job, Trevor. 👍🏼

You should get a Baha'i apologeticist on the show. One who is well versed in the KJV. That'd be interesting....

Remember when Paul was arrested for promoting a cult and had to plead his case? “I am a Pharisee and the descendent of Pharisees”

Strawman argument. "All religions are from the same God" =/= "All religions are the same." Which is also why I disagree with you persistently claiming the Bahá'í Faith is a "spin-off of Islam". As your partner said, at some point something has to give. Multiple things "gave" to make a firm break from Islam, including intercalary days. Meanwhile, Jesus never once claimed to be anything other than a Jewish man, and all the first "Christians" were Jews.

Oh boy. Its an unfair characterization to add in "how you live a Bahá'í life" to the idea of progress of the soul after death. The text doesn't say that. Rather, humans are required to acquire spiritual virtues in this life. Similarly to how mothers try to eat well so their babies develop all their limbs and faculties healthily in the womb. Of course I believe that following thr teachings of the Manifestation of God for this Day makes that process of nourishment of the soul easier, just like modern cooking and refrigeration make physical nourishment easier than in former times. But not exclusive.

Part 4 Notes @37:26 Here is a Biblical calculation of Christ’s Second Coming: - copied from Thief in the Night by Hand of the Cause of God William Sears (former Catholic investigative journalist who converted to Baha’I after researching the 1840s Second Coming Worldwide Movement) I found that there were four decrees to rebuild Jerusalem. They were as follows: 1. Issued by Cyrus in the year 536 BC. This decree is recorded in the first chapter of Ezra. It went unfulfilled. 2. Issued by Darius in the year 519 BC. This decree is recorded in the sixth chapter of Ezra. It also went unfulfilled. Only the Temple was rebuilt. 3. Issued by Artaxerxes in the seventh year of his reign in the year 457 BC. This is recorded in the seventh chapter of Ezra. It was fulfilled by the fourth decree. 4. Issued by the same Artaxerxes in the year 444 BC. This is recorded in the second chapter of Nehemiah. This decree fulfilled the third. Most of the students of Scripture accepted the third decree of Artaxerxes as the one referred to by Daniel. They reasoned that since the fourth decree was merely an extension of the third, and was issued by the same king it was in reality the same decree. Therefore, they favoured the decree issued in 457 BC. With this knowledge, it was now possible to state the prophecy of Daniel as follows: From the issuing of the decree of Artaxerxes in the year 457 BC until the time of the crucifixion of Jesus the Christ, there would be appointed (or pass) 70 weeks, 490 days-or in prophecy, 490 years. Many Bible scholars merely subtracted the 457 from the 490. This gave them 33 years. The Messiah (Christ) in His first coming would therefore be 33 years of age when He was cut off or slain. 19 I found that authorities differed widely as to the date of the birth of Christ, as well as to the date of His death. According to the Gospels, His birth took place before the death of Herod. Many historians calculated the death of Herod to have taken place in the month of April in the year 4 BC. Some said it was the year 5, some 6, some as early as the year 8 BC. Therefore, some of these scholars maintained that Christ was only 28 or less at the time of His death. Others give a different year and a different day. However, they all centre around the period foretold by Daniel. Thus with amazing accuracy, Daniel had given the time for the first coming of Christ. No wonder Jesus Himself was so emphatic about Daniel’s prophecy concerning His second coming or return. He told His disciples to ‘stand in the holy place’ when Daniel’s prophecy about the ‘abomination of desolation’ was fulfilled. In that day He promised: “… they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven …”1 I followed the pattern of the millennial scholars of the 1840s and carefully examined Daniel’s prophecy concerning the ‘abomination of desolation’. His exact words were: “How long shall be the vision concerning the daily sacrifice, and the abomination of desolation, to give the sanctuary and the host to be trodden under foot? And he said unto me, Unto two thousand and three hundred days; then shall the sanctuary be cleansed.”2 Thus, Daniel prophesied that two thousand three hundred days (2,300) would pass before the sanctuary would be cleansed. Following this time, all things would be made pure again. Before this time, the people would have fallen into a state of ‘abomination’ without love for God or man; then the 1 Matthew 24:30. 2 Daniel 8:13-14. 20 Messiah would appear and restore their Faith and the purity of their belief. This was the general conclusion. When would this take place? Daniel said it would come to pass in 2,300 days. In prophecy, this becomes 2,300 years. Using the same frame of reference for the second coming, as was used for the first coming (the decree of Artaxerxes), the Bible scholars made the following calculations: 1. The decree was issued in 457. They subtracted 457 from 2,300 and arrived at 1,843. Thus the year 1843, they said, would mark the beginning of the end of the ‘abomination of desolation’. 2. Some scholars pointed out that from the issuing of the decree in 457 until the birth of Christ there were 456 years, not 457; therefore, it was necessary to subtract 456 from 2,300. This left the year 1844.

I really would have liked to just hear the speaker be able to continue his trains of thought without being interrupted. I feel like the speaker was constantly derailed from making his points and get deeper into his understanding and didn't get the most of what he wanted to speak on. Either way, really appreciated the discourse. I would love to see this speaker have a warm debate with a Bahai scholar who is also a Christian scholar so it's truly inclusive and comprehensive investigation and FAIR. I would totally listen to that. Thank you guys for the video.

Excellent research with real comprehension of what the Faith is about! You were both fair in your criticisms and yet respectful of Baha'is. Well done guys!

saying it is self reformation and humanistic is a miss labeling, the education comes form god through Bahaullah. it is gods glory that saves. do you not work out your salvation with fear and trembling? do you not discipline and educate children for their sanctification? there is so much miss understanding coming from self centered interpretation of bahai teachings. with out education we are all little gremlins pooping and peeing where ever and chewing on anything that comes near our mouth. this argument of salvation is through faith alone is used as a vile attack on reason. of coarse its gods grace that gives us existence its self, but we also need to apply our minds to build character and learn to use virtue and morality in our reasoning. otherwise why do you read the bible? if there is nothing to learn or improve?

I’ve never seen someone who isn’t a Baha’i research the Baha’i Faith so much. Most non Baha’is really don’t care to look into its workings. I just have one question, I think Baha’u’llah spoke much more highly of Jesus than just a martyr and teacher. Also, my understanding is that the performing of miracles is a proof that the Manifestations of God are who they say they are (not the only proof but one of them) and that the miracles Jesus performed are completely accepted in the Baha’i teachings. We testify that when He [Jesus] came into the world, He shed the splendor of His glory upon all created things. Through Him the leper recovered from the leprosy of perversity and ignorance. Through Him, the unchaste and wayward were healed. Through His power, born of Almighty God, the eyes of the blind were opened, and the soul of the sinner sanctified. Bahá’u’lláh, Gleanings from the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, p. 86

So I'm trying to understand the premise of your program's criticism of the Baha'i Faith? Of all the criticisms you could levy against a religious organization, such as sexual abuse, discrimination, embedded racism, segregation, calls to violence or even killings, child abuse, financial impropriety, scamming the believers to pay towards enrichment of the clergies or pastors, your primary objection of the Baha’i Faith is the change of one sentence in one book out of literally hundreds of books about the Baha'i Faith and mocking the Baha’is of wanting too much Kumbaya and seeking too much harmony in the world because as you put it, we all have evil in us and conflict is in our nature. This focus seems disproportionate and raises questions about the underlying motivations and the overall validity of such a narrow critique. So let me clarify the points at the heart of your critique, the alteration of text in the book mentioned in your program. The quotation provided in that book was the recollection of the author of the conversation he had with Abdu’l-Baha. Two points here are important: 1-It is not the job of a Baha’i Institution to tell the author what his recollection was. 2-That recollection is not an authoritative text of the scripture, it is no more than heresy. The scriptures of the Baha'i Faith, as were written by the central figures in the original text, are all authenticated and have the seal or signature of the author and not even one dot or letter is ever changed, ever. Translations of that original text may differ slightly with the new editions when publishing in different languages as translations can be improved but the original text never ever changes. As to the criticism that Baha’is want too much harmony in the world by believing in the Oneness of humanity. I have to say that criticism made me laugh a little. Was Christ also naive by predicting that earth will mirror heaven in time to come? We all know the Lord's prayer well and continue to say it regularly. And if you ask me, we could all do with a little bit more harmony and unity and a little less bickering and fighting, don’t you think? So instead of throwing insults and calling the Baha'i institutions and central figures corrupt, let us all work together with loving harmony towards that vision of heaven on earth and walk the path of service together. That would be very much a Christ-like approach.

I would say they are right. Man is essentially good but this world changes them to be bad. Baha’is are thinking to bring man to their original self which is good. This is my understanding.

If you need to research the Baha'i Faith do not read books which have been written by those whose only purpose is to reject the Faith. Go to the source, the actual authenticated books written by the Proghet of God Himeself.

Most anticipated release I’ve had. Good stuff

About the so called false prophecy of peace in the Book Baha’u’llah and the New Era, that was based on an individuals notes, not on the Writings of Abdu’l-Baha. Plus it doesn’t match up with other authentic writings which describe the peace process as occurring gradually in stages over time. Only the Writings of the central figures are considered authentic. “For the people of Bahá(Baha’is) the Text, and only the Text, is authentic.” Hearsay is not considered authoritative. For the first time in history we have actual writings of the founders, and not second or third hand writings. Another big mistake was to say there was a cover up or an organized effort to Keep Baha’u’llah’s principal works from people because certain writings were not translated into English. Waiting to do it properly was the idea. It was already widely available in Arabic and Farcy and unofficial translations had been done and nothing was hidden as implied. A way a Christian might relate to this is just because there wasn’t good translations in English until recent centuries of the New Testament written in Greek doesn’t mean there was a cover up… Thanks

❤ from Texas 😇

Friendship is the Covenant

“Baha’is have no guilt before God” Surely you are joking. As a Baha’i and former Christian, many Christians I have met over the years practice sex outside of marriage and see nothing wrong with this, despite what Jesus and Paul said about it. Some might think it’s wrong but not actually practical and so don’t bother. Most Baha’i I know definitely would have shame around this and though people are fallible and sin does happen, Baha’is know that God does not want this lifestyle for us and would definitely not justify it in any way. This is just one example of an area where Baha’is actually make efforts to do what they believe God wants In general what is presented here are very simplified, erroneous generalisations of the Baha’i teachings in many instances. Like the Bible and other Christian writings, Baha’i theology is very complex and cannot be summed up in a few hour podcast

Hey! Definitely some holes in this presentation of the Faith and quite a few straight-up incorrect things. Having a conversation with Bahai's, maybe showing them this and going through different points would be good, so you might get some more accurrate perspective on the Faith!

Also, regarding the dark and light nature of humans. The Baha’i writings are FULL of discussions about humans higher and lower nature. It talks about humans always having choice and free will to choose how we behave and live. We can choose to be unified or to divide ourselves from each other.

i wonder if the hosts think they made jesus up in their own minds or if they understand they had to be educated about the existence of Jesus and the ways of confessing him as lord and repenting? is education in spiritual things important or do you just do what you want your way? no need for the word, education from divine authority doesnt work apparently, i also wonder if they think jesus wants them to be prejudice towards peoples immutable characteristics . it is very strange watching them attack things jesus would agree with

Religions have differences & similarities. The commonalities appear to be the most important. The primary purpose of all religions is to ennoble character & to harmonize relationships. Every religion has cultivated the good, reproved the wrong & held up a vision of potentialities as yet unrealized.

Really? You are criticizing the Baha'is for being too loving and wanting too much harmony, love and unity because you believe that human beings are terrible and will always fight and have wars? That's a pretty dark vision and not Christian at all! Christ's vision was far more hopeful and positive than that! He spoke of a day when the earth mirrored the perfection of heaven.

Why would you think the Christian religion ISNT a cult as well? There are supernatural claims, and there is authoritarian control of members who face various claimed threats if they leave. They feel they are the only right/“chosen” people to the exclusion of all others. The different sects can’t figure out which is “right”. There are so many cultish characteristics….

like the father, the essence of god is unknowable, you know god through his word and spirit. it is the same as Christianity. so many unwarranted attacks with little thought

you admit yourself that book, bahaullah and the new era is not authoritive, unless you show a source of the prophecy in a authoritive text it is simply not valid. also about the violent babi texts etc yes war was abrogated by bahaullah. and spreading texts that are full of war may confuse people and lead them to act in uncivil ways. i dont mind critiquing and like real rational proofs etc, but alot of this comes off as not a spirit of truth but ignorance

The other thing I am struggling with here is the statement "they [Bahai's] changed things" but isn't Christianity rife with "they changed it" in the Bible, quite literally, not to mention the thousands of factions of Christianity that "change it" based on their own understanding to suit their own means? This accusation of Bahai's "changing it" coming from a Christian scholar as if the history of Christianity has never done so with the Bible or historical narratives, confuses me. Would love some clarification.

It's like when Elaine from seinfeld was dating a Christian, and she as a non believer says she's glad they can have a good relationship without him judging her, but asks isn't the fact that she doesn't believe a problem for him, he says "no why should it be, you're the one going to hell, not me*

What is the Quran verse 39 68? Ayah az-Zumar (The Troops, Throngs, The Companies) 39:68. The Trumpet will be blown and all those in the heavens and all those on the earth will fall dead, except those Allah wills ˹to spare˺. Then it will be blown again and they will rise up at once, looking on ˹in anticipation˺. This verse is a reference to the two Manifestations of God (i.e. The Bab and Bahá’u’lláh). The Baha'i Faith started in 1844, which is a biblical forcast of the Return.

Church of Philadelphia, Church of Brotherly Love

Bahai f-16s wow that sounds awesome... I think a world commonwealth model is the concept... And yes, Universal participation... And a complimentary institution called the House of the guardianship having executive authority

Elimination of extremes of poverty and wealth. Everyone has to become a Baha'i? Or... all the 'supposed' adherents of the world's religions could just honor the Golden Rule.

"Followers of the Gospel! Behold, He Who has ascended has now come. Behold Him dwelling in My Person" - Baha'u'llah - (referring to Christ dwelling within him - )

Never heard of this before.

But he said, ‘No, lest while you gather up the tares you also uproot the wheat with them. Let both grow together until the harvest, and at the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, “First gather together the tares and bind them in bundles to burn them, but gather the wheat into my barn.” ’

They takenoff of work and gather in biildings for worship every Sunday and they say that you should not "forsake the assembling together of believers." And they take off for Chrismas which they understand ti be Jesus's birthday and frequently they take off on the Friday that commemorates the execution of Jesus. "They kind of ingrain it into your system by doing that." 😉

Invite me if you ever do another podcast on Baha'is.

i appreciate Steve Matthews’ research into the Baha’i’ Faith, which seems to me (I've been a Baha’i for a while now) mostly pretty accurate (if not exactly sympathetic or rounded). However, I’m going to push back on one thing. You guys are very clear that you think Baha’is have badly misunderstood and misrepresented Jesus, who and what He is, and in ways you think are kind of obviously wrong. My man point is this: while you correctly say that Baha’is say that Jesus is a “Manifestation of God” and say that there have been many such figures in history and will be more in future, you never explain the concept “Manifestation of God”, and without grasping that concept I don’t see how you can understand and evaluate the Baha’i view of Jesus. For you it seems to be enough to argue that Jesus is unique and singular, whereas there are multiple Manifestation of God; therefore, Jesus isn’t a Manifestation of God. Maybe your argument goes through, but by it you evade critically engaging with the Baha’i view of Jesus. If you want to understand and know what you are criticising, the first pages of part two of The Book of Certitude (Kitáb-i-Íqán, one of the books Steve had on the table) is an authoritative primary source text for the concept. I’ll quote a few sentences from there: “The door of the knowledge of the Ancient of Days [i.e. of God] being thus closed in the face of all beings, the Source of infinite grace [i.e. God]... has caused those luminous Gems of Holiness to appear out of the realm of the spirit, in the noble form of the human temple, and be made manifest unto all men, that they may impart unto the world the mysteries of the unchangeable Being, and tell of the subtleties of His imperishable Essence. These sanctified Mirrors, these Daysprings of ancient glory are one and all the Exponents on earth of Him Who is the central Orb of the universe, its Essence and ultimate Purpose.” The Baha’i view is that Jesus is a luminous Gem of Holiness, a sanctified Mirror and a Dayspring (i.e., Dawn) of ancient glory. Cheers

I feel that the word "cult" is nondescript in that it doesn't have much meaning except in a negative context and indeed is used as a "catch-all" label to attack something that is usually different and unknown, and therefore strange, and undoubtedly, sometimes dangerous.

I suggest you study histori of religion based on the Covenant, particularly the Covenant of Abraham, who had three wives, Sarah, Hagar and Keturah, then study Moses covenant, Christs Covenant, Muhammad's Covenant, then the Babi Covenant.

Breaking the 1st commandment - Exodus 20: 2 "I am the Lord your God, who brought you out of Egypt, out of the land of slavery. V 3 you shall have no other gods before me. V 4 You shall not make for yourself an idol in the form of anything................

I wonder how many mormons they could pull if they added joseph smith as one of their manifestations

Hey my dear brothers in Christ. Great video. Love the effort and time you put into this video. I took a few notes. I will break my notes into segments due to comment length restrictions. Part 1 Notes @2:25 Quoting from the Old Testament and New Testament Below on Hell: “But he knoweth not the dead are there; and that her (a prostitute’s) guests are in the depths of hell.” (Proverbs 9:18) Interprets as: Here Death and Hell occur from partaking and being in the presence of immorality. “...And I looked, and beheld a pale horse; and his name that sat on him was Death, and Hell followed with him.” (Rev 6:8) Interprets as: Hell is a rider on a horse and is clearly used symbolically to signify an evil force. “...Then Jonah prayed unto the Lord his God out of the fish’s belly; and said, ‘I cried by reason of mine affliction unto the Lord, and he heard me; out of the belly of hell cried I, and thou heardest my voice’...Then I said, ‘I am cast out from thy presence; how shall I again look upon thy holy temple?’...And the Lord spake unto the fish, and it vomited out Jonah upon the dry land.” (Jonah 2:1-10) Interprets as: Hell is equated with being “cast out from thy presence,” the presence of the Lord, for if read literally, Hell is a wandering place in the belly of a fish. Those in Hell cannot be in eternal punishment: “The King of Kings and Lord of Lords, who alone has immortality...” (1 Tim 6:15-16) Note: Eternal physical torment in Hell would make a person immortal, but God alone is immortal. Hell as a physical cannot be eternal either: “But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night, in which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise; and the elements shall melt with a fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.” “...the rich man also died, and was buried; And in hell he lifted up his eyes, being in torment...for I am tormented in this flame.” (Luke 16:22- 24) (2 Peter 3:10) “...Of old hast thou laid the foundations of the earth; and the heavens are the work of thy hands. They shall perish, but thou shalt endure.” (Psalms 102:25-26) “...Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away.” (Luke 21:33) “And Death and Hell were cast into the lake of fire.” (Rev 20:14) Summary: Both the Old and New Testaments refer to the destruction of heaven and of the earth wherein Hell is said to exist. Therefore, Hell can’t be a place of eternal physical punishment and these verses must be interpreted spiritually. About how the Bible translations led to today’s ministers mis-interpreting Hell literally: “Hell, an English word used to translate Sheol (Hebrew); Hades (Greek); and Gehenna (Hebrew). In Christian tradition it is usually associated with the notion of eternal punishment, especially by fire.” (Harper’s Bible Dictionary, p 382) Sheol in the Hebrew Bible is the underworld place of stillness and darkness which lies after death. Gehenna, abode of the damned in the afterlife in Jewish and Christian eschatology (the doctrine of last things). Named in the New Testament in Greek form (from the Hebrew Ge Hinnom, meaning “valley of Hinnom”), Gehenna originally was a valley west and south of Jerusalem where children were burned as sacrifices to the Ammonite god Moloch. This practice was carried out by the Israelites during the reigns of King Solomon in the 10th century BC and King Manasseh in the 7th century BC and continued until the Babylonian Exile in the 6th century BC. Gehenna later was made a garbage centre to discourage a reintroduction of such sacrifices. Hades, in ancient Greek religion, god of the underworld. Hades was a son of the Titans Cronus and Rhea, and brother of the deities Zeus, Poseidon, Demeter, Hera, and Hestia. Greek: Aïdes (“the Unseen”) Also called: Pluto or Pluton (“the Wealthy One” or “the Giver of Wealth”)

Just wanted to add a correction: their pilgrimage is actually to bahaullah house in Baghdad or bab house in shiraz. Those Israel centres are visitations. Really good researched video.

Bahai's try to prove from Biblical and Islamic prophesies the truth of Bahaullah. As you mentioned Theif in the Night book. Where can I find thorough critiscm and refutation of Bahais brining Biblical prophesies in their support? Kindly guide.

“Baha’is shun people” 1 Corinthians 5:9 NIV: 9 I wrote to you in my letter not to associate with sexually immoral people- 11 But now I am writing to you that you must not associate with anyone who claims to be a brother or sister[a] but is sexually immoral or greedy, an idolater or slanderer, a drunkard or swindler. Do not even eat with such people. 12 What business is it of mine to judge those outside the church? Are you not to judge those inside? So then Baha’is are not even as harsh as Christians in this respect as it is absolutely a last resort after all other avenues have been attempted whereas for Christians if anyone in the church participates in these activities they are shunned

The Hidden Words are considered to be Lord's Judgments - a book by the Prophet of the faith revealed on the banks of the Tigris River in 1963 - so around the time of this Festival we're in now...

Rainn Wilson will be attending the Danish Baha’i summer school this year. Got any questions you’d like me to ask?

Please do one with Islam. I think this is something most Christians would encounter.

From my understanding the reason the different religions are so different, if you will, is that over time each religion goes through a cycle like the seasons of weather. Spring is the beginning of the religion when life begins to bloom. Summer is when it's in full force. Fall is when the decay and death starts. Winter is when it has fully decayed and has reached the penultimate cycle of said religion when everything is dead and decayed. Then a new Messenger arrives with new life ie a new spring. If you go back to the origins of said religions you'd find they are more similar than different. This is from my understanding As for what Baha'u'llah said about the Bible "...We have also heard a number of the foolish of the earth assert that the genuine text of the heavenly Gospel doth not exist amongst the Christians, that it hath ascended unto heaven. How grievously they have erred! How oblivious of the fact that such a statement imputeth the gravest injustice and tyranny to a gracious and loving Providence! How could God, when once the Day-star of the beauty of Jesus had disappeared from the sight of His people, and ascended unto the fourth heaven, cause His holy Book, His most great testimony amongst His creatures, to disappear also? What would be left to that people to cling to..."

Seventh Angel is part of the Baha'i faith Revelation 11:15 Dr. Leland claimed this after a spiritual experience

Part 3 Notes Notes on Christianity’s Early History; Sects; and Baha’i Faith and Lack of Sect In regard to Christianity; there were already sects and theological differences as early as 1st Century AD. These sects were: Adoptionism, Arianism. Docetists. Ebionites, Gnosticism, Marcionism, Montanism, Trinitarianism. It wasn’t until 325 AD according to the history books, that the Council at Nicaea in Rome decided on the prevailing doctrine of Christianity, otherwise known as Roman Catholic Christianity today, which really took hold of the Roman Empire, and much of Europe. Many Christians today, may not know that Christianity was intended to be one religion with no sects according to the New Testament, where in Romans 1-8 it is written as Christ’s church needing to be unified: “I appeal to you therefore, brothers, by the mercies of God, to present your bodies as a living sacrifice, holy and acceptable to God, which is your spiritual worship. 2 Do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewal of your mind, that by testing you may discern what is the will of God, what is good and acceptable and perfect. 3 For by the grace given to me I say to everyone among you not to think of himself more highly than he ought to think, but to think with sober judgment, each according to the measure of faith that God has assigned. 4 For as in one body we have many members, and the members do not all have the same function, 5 so we, though many, are one body in Christ, and individually members one of another. 6 Having gifts that differ according to the grace given to us, let us use them: if prophecy, in proportion to our faith; 7 if service, in our serving; the one who teaches, in his teaching; 8 the one who exhorts, in his exhortation; the one who contributes, in generosity; the one who leads, with zeal; the one who does acts of mercy, with cheerfulness.” The Baha’I Faith is the first verified Faith where the Writings were authenticated and written by it’s 3 Central Figures, all of whom were alive less than 250 years ago, and our Faith has a clear administrative structure and framework which does not allow sectarianism. Baha’u’llah made sure, as you stated in your part 1 video to leave authority to his son, Abdul ‘Baha, after His passing, and following Abdul ‘Baha’s passing; to Shoghi Effendi. After which, there were no more authoritative figures of the Faith. @ 20:30 - On Resurrection. is an explanatory quote from Some Answered Questions on the Topic ‘Resurrection of Christ’ : “We explain, therefore, the meaning of Christ’s resurrection in the following way: After the martyrdom of Christ, the Apostles were perplexed and dismayed. The reality of Christ, which consists in His teachings, His bounties, His perfections, and His spiritual power, was hidden and concealed for two or three days after His martyrdom, and had no outward appearance or manifestation-indeed, it was as though it were entirely lost. For those who truly believed were few in number, and even those few were perplexed and dismayed. The Cause of Christ was thus as a lifeless body. After three days the Apostles became firm and steadfast, arose to aid the Cause of Christ, resolved to promote the divine teachings and practice their Lord’s admonitions, and endeavored to serve Him. Then did the reality of Christ become resplendent, His grace shine forth, His religion find new life, and His teachings and admonitions become manifest and visible. In other words, the Cause of Christ, which was like unto a lifeless body, was quickened to life and surrounded by the grace of the Holy Spirit. 31:04 - The idea that Baha’is censor their books is untrue. Many of the Writings are translated by the UHJ. The Bible in fact is inauthentic. It is Divinely Inspired, yet powers that be changed it. The Baha’i Faith is the first religion that is Abrahamic and the Manifestation was photographed, spoke and wrote the Teachings, and can be confirmed to be authentic. The Baha’i Faith is not dishonest, and I am not sure where or how you came to that conclusion. Some Answered Questions was , for example, was written by Laura Clifford Barney, who wrote the Teachings as spoken at table talks with Abdul’baha. @35:00 - My dear brothers in Christ. When Christ walked on this Earth, many problems prophesied by the Jewish followers were left unfulfilled. These things take time. It is through faith, service, and action over time when the world is transformed. Let us look at the world today, and the good works of Christian missionaries worldwide. Look how the Gospel was spread to every nation in every language! Clearly, the same argument you make, that in 1863, this world peace didn’t happen, is similar to Jewish sentiment in early Christian history. In regard to Daniel from Old Testament: from (Thief in the Night by William Sears) According to the second promise of Christ, these Gentiles (Romans/ Muslims) would tread the city underfoot until the hour of His return which would be 1,260 years by the measurement of prophecy. During all that time, the Jews would be banished from their own land. However, in the hour of Christ’s return, the privilege of going home would be restored to them, and the‘times of the Gentiles’ would be ended. An examination of the calendar of the Muslims, who held the Holy City captive, revealed to these millennial scholars an astonishing thing: The year 1,260 of the calendar of the Muslims coincided with the year 1844 of the calendar of the Christians. The year 1,260 given in Revelation as the time when the days of the ‘Gentiles’ would be ended and the Jews would be permitted to return to their homeland, was the same year as that of 1844 when the Muslim rulers were forced to sign the Edict of Toleration permitting the return of the Jews to Israel. I began to understand the growing enthusiasm of the Bible scholars of the 1840s. Christ had promised that when the ‘times of the Gentiles’ was fulfilled, He would come back to earth. To these students of Scripture, the second promise of Christ was exactly fulfilled, and the date (1844) established without question.

Half way through so it's my mid point comment... I am really appreciating a truly educated counter viewpoint. Not just one who knows nothing and refutes it based on pure bias - I've never had time for them. There are "covenant breakers" that Bahai's are forbidden to listen to so getting a counter view based on research is hard to get for a Bahai interested person to consider for that 'personal investigation of truth' - which is one of the Tenants of the Faith. But this is not a "covenant breaker" this is a man who has dedicated himself to his own studies. So I can respectfully listen and take in this other view. I also find holes here which are not accurate representations of what I understand of the Bahai faith namely at 25:35 where "elimination of extremes of wealth and poverty" is a goal of the Faith and the speaker states "we're gonna want to give away all our money to have this Socialist utopia" is wildly inaccurate. As I understand it, Bahai's have a system of financial justice that allows for pursuit of wealth as it's recognized that it's OK to have that level of striving and that having money is not a bad thing, nor is having more than another a bad thing. Not being able to improve our material station should one desire to, would not be in accordance with free will. What IS bad is that many don't have basic needs met. So each Bahai gives 19% of their SURPLUS income - meaning once they pay for their OWN expenses to live (which is up to the conscience of each Bahai and not determined by the Faith) then they pay 19% of their surplus to a central fund which is then (in a future world as it's not big enough to function like this yet in its full intention) that will go to fund the human baseline so everyone has enough, all are educated, all are housed and clothed and cared for. No one goes hungry. But people CAN become wealthy and have more than enough if they choose to pursue that. Unlike other religious tithing which requires often 10% of one's total income regardless. A low income person who gives 10% tithing now can't buy necessities. A Bahai system would never do that. In fact, low income people would pay little to nothing into a Bahai fund as they would be unlikely to have any surplus after meeting their needs. And that giving to the fund is NOT enforceable - can't be asked of you by authorities. It's a matter of conscience. And that ONLY Bahai's can give to a Bahai Fund. That's what I understand.

strange listening to christians say its impossible for the world to unify in God, when all of christian hope is on the return and the millennial kingdom, where mankinds lower sin nature is overcome and gods glory reins

This is great. Can you cover the early poly/metaphysical self arbiter metaphysical materialism ? (From Indian near east roots) -this is a growing mainstream spiritual ality

Hmmm... @44:20 saying it's a very humanistic religion, that man's systems cannot change the heart of man, that it "needs to come from above" and that "this is not what the Bahai's are teaching" and they don't talk about the afterlife - this is just not true at all, so I'm scratching my head as to what basis this opinion was founded. As I understand it, for Bahai's it's totally something that comes from within, from God and that the social justice structures prescribed to humanity are simply frame works for a fair and just society - but not something that can transform one's heart. I appreciate your research while at the same time, I also hear your statements as an inaccurate representation and that makes me question your argument and depth of research so I can take what is said seriously. It makes me wonder if you've read these or just the books that refute the Faith. I am genuinely interested in counter arguments and they need to be fair in order to be taken into account. This is my opinion. I also question the statements made that "we are basically good" - where I've read so often where it says in a Bahai prayer book under the groupings of Forgiveness prayers (p.74 1991 Ed.) ""I am a sinner O Lord and Thou art the Ever Forgiving". I understand we are definitely seen as prone to evil and in need of guidance. Which is why the Creator sends a religion and prophets, presumably? Additionally, a quick look to the book *The Hidden Words* revealed by Baha'u'llah (that represent the voice of God as I understand it) are brief examples (and hundreds like it) that attest to transforming the heart. I will share here: "6. O SON OF BEING! Thy Paradise is My love; thy heavenly home, reunion with Me. Enter therein and tarry not. This is that which hath been destined for thee in Our kingdom above and Our exalted dominion. 7. O SON OF MAN! If thou lovest Me, turn away from thyself; and if thou seekest My pleasure, regard not thine own; that thou mayest die in Me and I may eternally live in thee. 8. O SON OF SPIRIT! There is no peace for thee save by renouncing thyself and turning unto Me; for it behooveth thee to glory in My name, not in thine own; to put thy trust in Me and not in thyself, since I desire to be loved alone and above all that is." www.bahai.org/library/authoritative-texts/bahaullah/hidden-words/2#590841570

EVIL The Baha'i view is that evil does not exist, as Steve rightly says. The way this Baha'i doctrine is treated it is taken to be weak and easily defeated, and certainly contrary to Christian doctrine. i'm no expert on Thomas Aquinas but as far as i can see, the saint proposed exactly the same doctrine that Baha'is hold: Briefly, that evil is privation. From the saint (Quaestiones Disputatae De Malo 1,1): "Existing itself chiefly has the nature of being desirable, and so we perceive that everything by nature desires to conserve its existing and avoids things destructive of its existing and resists them as far as possible. Therefore, existing itself, insofar as it is desirable, is good. . . . Therefore, evil, which is universally contrary to good, is necessarily also contrary to existing." Note the last line. i don't suppose you at Apologia Studio have to accept that as true, but (a) Aquinas was not an idiot, and (b) he was a Christian. QED

I looked up the candle business promoted at the beginning as one of their sponsors, discount for cultish viewers even. I wonder who accepted their sponsorship and how it ever made it to become advertised on the show. Far too much promotion of the pagan and occult to be missed even with a quick search through, yet these brilliant researchers have either totally missed them all, overlooked them all, or did not even look at the business’ website before personally promoting this new sponsor. I know RU-vid ads cannot be helped, but this is chosen and deliberate.

Hahaha, I’m listening further. I think it’s funny you think there’s nothing in the Baha’i writings that say we don’t need to turn to God for salvation, Dude….it’s FULL of that. Humans are referred to as “Sons of Dust” but also we are told we are the attributes of God. We are BOTH. “Follow not, therefore, your earthly desires, and violate not the Covenant of God, nor break your pledge to Him. With firm determination, with the whole affection of your heart, and with the full force of your words, turn ye unto Him, and walk not in the ways of the foolish” Baha’u’llah. Keep reading, you’re missing a lot.

Just because something isn’t conservative enough for you doesn’t mean it’s a cult🙄

The daily prayers, recitation, calendar with holy days and fasting - those actually do NOT take up the majority of Baha'i energy and focus....because of HOW much time, energy, and thought Baha'is invest in "teaching the Faith", hoping to spread their religion/cause. Teaching is, without a doubt, the biggest aspect of being a Baha'i - it absorbs time, thought, energy, money, planning, execution, etc. If anything cultish exists in the Baha'i Faith, it's this extreme emphasis on teaching. The prayer, fasting, feasting practices don't actually result in any real spiritual growth - what does mold the mind is the incessant emphasis on being a Teacher of the Faith. On that note, please be aware of RUHI CIRCLES. These are conducted for all ages - but please especially be aware of allowing your Christian children to join a Ruhi Circle. You may be invited by a local Baha'i arranging one for your neighborhood. They will say that it is simply a way for children to study the virtues. If giving more info, they will say they focus on teaching children virtues and values commonly taught by all world religions. In reality, that means they are cherry picking scripture verses from various world religions, including the Baha'i Faith, which a) lends legitimacy to Baha'u'llah as a founder of a world religion like any other; b) enables the Baha'is to sneakily expose your kids to Baha'i teachings under the cover of simply focusing on virtues like patience, love, etc.; and c) by cherry picking from amongst the world religions, of course they emphasize commonality amongst them for the sake of the topic, while completely ignoring their differences - cultivating in your child the idea that all of the religions are ONE, just like the Baha'is say. But here is the REAL goal of Ruhi circles - to convert people, it's the first exposure. And with children Baha'is say that the best way to convert adults is through their children. Get the children trained up in Ruhi, and then they will go home and talk to their parents about these principles and hopefully get their parents interested in Ruhi and the Baha'i Faith - or at least a taste for "unity of religions". So here is an inconvenient truth. Baha'is can be very upright citizens. They can seem very nice and open and honest. But when they are truly in teaching mode, they aren't as open and honest as they should be - and may not even realize that is an issue. They are not like St. Paul, who frankly and openly explained the Gospel, whether the hearers would like it or not, receive it or not. Baha'is, instead, use a lot of kindness, gentle flattery, only feeding what a person may seem open to at that time, finding indirect ways to pull people into the Baha'i Faith. Christians, please do refer to the books that Steve Matthews showed in this video! I have seen fat Baha'i books devoted entirely to twisting Biblical scripture into interpretations that support Baha'u'llah and refute Christian understanding of the Gospel. Here are some things they will level against Christians: Baha'is have a clearly defined authority who can interpret scriptures. They will claim that Christians do not - and therefore, interpretation of scripture is truly up for grabs - and so they will argue for their own twisted interpretations as having just as much validity as your own. Next, they will also point to the many different Protestant churches as a sign of disunity and disagreement among Christians, while saying that their own Baha'i Faith is united. Of course, they are ignoring the schismatic group of "Orthodox Baha'is". But just be aware, they do think Protestants are very divided and see that as a real weakness among Christians. Lastly....the Baha'i Faith claims that all religions essentially agree, they only seem to differ in some essentials due to corruption of teachings of prior religions or wrong interpretations. So in the case of the physical resurrection of Jesus, they would claim that Baha'i, Christian, and Muslim teachings were in fact the same - they only seem different. They claim that Christians misinterpret the Bible - that the earliest Christians did not believe in a physical resurrection - the problem with that is that any religious scholar, even atheistic ones, would refute that. The opposite is true - the earliest Christians DID believe in the physical resurrection - when people later stopped believing in it, that was the corruption of the Gospel. Next, the Baha'is don't even agree with the Muslims about this! The Muslim scriptures say that Jesus wasn't even crucified! But the Baha'is claim that Jesus was crucified and died - just wasn't resurrected. So they try to get past this by saying the Quran doesn't actually MEAN what it says - what it actually MEANT to say was that the spirit of Jesus' message could not be crucified or killed. Read that section of the Quran, people - it means exactly what it plainly says. It would have been very easy to state otherwise, and no one should be foolish enough to think that Muslims were not "spiritually evolved" enough to understand the alternative theory that Baha'u'llah espoused. It's simply not what the Quran teaches! It is a direct contradiction. Here is another direct contradiction: Mohammed is claimed to be the Seal (last) of the prophets. Baha'u'llah gets around this by saying, "Oh, well...yeah, he was the last of the prophets! Because all of the prophets were actually prophesying about ME! So he was the last one to do that." Baha'u'llah then conveniently safeguards his own "dispensation" by specifying that there will be no other Manifestation appearing for at least 1,000 years. Smart thinking, I suppose. I have heard that many idealistic Baha'is who signed up in the 1960's and 1970"s finally got to read the much anticipated book of laws (Kitab-i-Aqdas), they were flummoxed! They had been expecting so much from a lofty religion promoting peace, love, unity, the equality of the sexes and races...they were expecting an equally lofty book of laws! But instead, they found inexplicably bizarre laws like not eating from the same dish, burning arsonists to death, dowry systems, etc. Some of it was too much to stomach, for example punishing an arsonist by burning him to death. The Baha'i Faith's spiritual writings are a mishmash of wondrously lofty or beautiful ideas lifted from other world religions or scriptures combined with some authoritative statements and contradictions, placed into a flowery word salad to trick people into thinking they are reading poetry from the heavens. It's actually smoke and mirrors. Some corrections I would offer to this video: when Baha'is say that mankind needs to be *educated*, they do mean at the core a spiritual education. So they believe mankind needs to be spiritually educated in order to do "better" in the world. They believe that in each age, people are only spiritually evolved enough to receive whatever that time's "Manifestation" revealed. They believe that accounts for differences between religious "dispensations", in addition to corruption of the texts/practices and changing social realities. Next, *covenant breaking*: covenant breaking is not simply about leaving the Baha'i Faith - it is actually very specific: it is when a Baha'i attacks the legitimacy of one or more of the Baha'i administrative figures/bodies. That is regarded as such a threat that the person is kicked out of the Baha'i Faith and shunned - shunned because of the belief that their "spiritual illness" is contagious. Simply leaving the Baha'i Faith does not result in any strange practice, unless individuals just want to break off ties on their own. That is one argument AGAINST the Baha'i Faith being a cult, actually - they don't go crazy/extensive means to keep people in, people are free to leave. I have heard that they don't or can't keep accurate records of who leaves, though - the numbers on the books are likely bloated. But Baha'is ARE very scared that they are rejecting God and disobeying God's will if they stop believing in Baha'u'llah and leave the Baha'i Faith. A major problem is that they THINK they understand Christianity when all that they understand is warped Baha'i misinformation about it. They think they honor Jesus, when they don't even know Jesus. Let us pray regularly for Baha'is to see the true light of Jesus Christ - to be willing to openly see and accept Christianity on its own terms. 🌹🙏

Light of the world?? 🤔

Mark 9:42-48 - If hell is real then abortion is the most humane thing that could ever happen to any potential human being ever! The risk of eternal torture will always outweigh bringing any life into this world if hell is real. So the question for any Christian is which is it? Are you ignorant to what eternal torture is? Are you in denial that exponentially more people will be tortured for eternity than claim a life in your heaven belief? Or do you just disregard and hate conscious life and don't care about those who will be tortured for eternity? And this flawed thinking by the so called pro-life movement is what makes them so dangerous. They think they are moral but are far from it. They place their belief of what they think a fetus is or isn't above all other humanity. You see this in their support of Trump's authoritarianism, supporting those that do nothing about climate change or gun violence, supporting those that do nothing about America's unsustainable health care costs and the list goes on. They love the fetus but hate conscious life.

Just FYI here's a basic introduction on how to identify a cult: ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-6Pn2enNmtFI.html

Psalm 89 identifies the Davidic Covenant that the Throne of David will never lack a man to sit upon it. So that is a narrow administrative issue in the faith that was occupied by Mason Remey, Pepe Remey, and now Neal Chase - who states that it is an unorganized religion based on 12 principles - Or foundation stones - these correlate to the Heavenly foundation stones of the New Jerusalem ;)

Baha'is believe Jesus performed healing miracles, but that they are unimportant to anyone who didn't directly see them. In other words, miracles are minimized in Baha'i because Baha'u'llah didn't perform miracles. The Baha'i justification for that is that "all the manifestations of God had ALL the divine abilities but they showed only those needed for the people of their time." So the Baha'is believe that Baha'u'llah was able to perform miracles but he chose not to because of the times in which we live. YES, you can't make this stuff up. That is how deluded Baha'is are, to believe that line of nonsensical reasoning to excuse Baha'u'llah for being unable to do something that Jesus could do. I used to be a Baha'i and I believed this because I naively went along with whatever the Baha'i Writings told me to believe. I do remember having twinges of cognitive dissonance. Years later after I became Christian and read the gospels I realized Jesus told people to pay attention to the miracles. He said: "Don’t believe me unless I carry out my Father’s work. But if I do his work, believe in the evidence of the miraculous works I have done, even if you don’t believe me. Then you will know and understand that the Father is in me, and I am in the Father." (John 10:37-38)

Shoggy EfFendi died in 1957 I think November 4th. 1963 is 100 year anniversary of the Most Holy Festival Rizwan which is happening now. Oh. There could have been an event in the life of Dr. Leland Jensen that occurred on April 29th. I want to say 1971 or 1974. I'm not sure. That prophecy is one of several prophecies on his tombstone in Missoula, Montana. His spiritual experience occurred upon entering the Deer Lodge territorial prison August 8th, 1969... So whatever happened 1335 these days before that could be an event in the life of Muhammad.. This is truth. Dr. Jensen has unsealed the scrolls of Revelation, which is the duty or mission of the seventh angel - Name date address admission is the golden standard revealed in the Bible

My family all going Bahai, sign of the last days?

7:17 Kabbalah invented the kabbah and allah

The Bible tells us in several verses that the spirit lives eternally and that the body dies. Here are a few verses: "To focus our minds on the human nature leads to death, but to focus our minds on the Spirit leads to life and peace." --Romans 8:6 "For if you live according to the flesh you will die, but if by the Spirit you put to death the deeds of the body, you will live." --Romans 8:13 "For as the body apart from the spirit is dead, so also faith apart from works is dead." --James 2:26