As a native Califorian I just found out that I love hearing US history from the mouths of 2 Englishmen. They are serious about the subject matter but not so serious as to be dull and boring. Their humor and wit are just enough to entertain you and keep you chuckling. Just found this channel and will be here to stay.
I wish many more people hear about Dominic Sandbrook and Tom Holland. These guys are the most watchable historians on RU-vid--knowledgeable, insightful, good-natured and fair. Loved this absorbing 8-part series on the Battle of Little Bighorn and watched some episodes two or three times. Not just for the light shed on the personalities and motives of the men who fought there--Custer, Sitting Bull, Crazy Horse, Gall, Reno and Benteen--but also for the analysis of background events in the Grant administration that brought them together in that remote spot in southeastern Montana on Sunday, June 25, 1876. I must confess I also thoroughly enjoyed the droll character sketches of George Crook and Alfred Howe Terry. Great stuff, gentlemen. I wish your channel all success.
Much of Custer's legend was enhanced by the Anheuser Bush Brewing Company comishining prints of the "last stand" which appeared for decades over virtually every bar in America. Fallen Timbers was actually the worst defeat by US forces to a Native arms. Over 1000 men killed during George Washington's administration. Thomas Berger's novel - Little Big Man - is my favorite novel. It is much better than the film, and more balanced in how it portrays the clash of vastly different civilizations never quite able to make sense of each other.
@@michaelcooley4553 You have your battles confused. The worst defeat the U.S. Army ever suffered by Native Americans was St. Clair's Defeat. This battle took place in western Ohio, along the Wabash River, but it did occur during Washington's administration. Around 840 Americans were killed. At the time, that figure represented approximately one-quarter of the entire U.S. Army. The Battle of Fallen Timbers occurred three years later in 1794. In a short but decisive battle, General "Mad" Anthony Wayne overthrew the same Indian confederation that wiped out General St. Clair.
The thing I think people forget regarding the Springfield trap door rifles is that, yes they were single shots, but they shot the 45-70 cartridge. Even today that cartridge is held in high regards by hunters. It was a better and more powerful long range cartridge than the Winchesters and Henry’s which shot the weaker 44 rim fired and the 44-40s. If you could keep the fire up from a skirmish line and keep an enemy at a distance the Springfields would have had the advantage of being better at long distance. But if troopers were exposed in the open while warriors could storm and close the distance or use ravines to conceal their movement while they closed the distance under full cover protected from the cavalry’s fire, the weakness of the Winchesters and Henry’s cartridges would have been negated, their shorter range disadvantage being replaced by the great advantage of being repeater rifles. At shorter distances there was no comparison.
The cartridge may be longer range in a rifle, but they had carbines with very short barrels and an effective range of only about 300 yards. They also found many fallen troopers had broken knives by them which would have been from trying to pry jammed cartridges out of the guns. Post battle, it was found much of the 7th ammo was copper not brass cartridges which would jam. Low bidders no doubt. The Henry repeaters in particular had much better ranges and the Indians knew their guns. Indians, survivors and the archeology backs it up that the troopers were out ranged. Carbines were standard issue for cavalry due to size and weight. They also had warehouses left over from the Civil War and the Army had no budget for new longer ranged rifles as well as new ammunition. Many officers also did not like the rate troopers used ammunition in repeaters and preferred the single shot guns simplifying supply. US Calvary used the 7 shot spencer repeaters in the Civil War, but in the west were issued the single shot carbines.
@@jamesb4789 I’m sure the carbine fired those rounds at a slower velocity than the rifles, but they would certainly be effective for 200 yards. Once you are out in the realm of 200-300 yards with iron sights it becomes rather moot without a scope. Those 44-40s out of a rifle are a lot like shooting 45 colt or even 357 out of a rifle or carbine. Hunters today tend to refuse to shoot those rounds much beyond 100 yards because those bullets start dropping like a brick beyond that. I’ve seen mention of modern hunters with those kinds of rifles trying to keep ranges down closer to 75 yards. The carbines would still have had some advantage at ranges past 100 yards.
Most of the Calvary were not good shots if they even could use their rifles. Custer was more into matching horse colors. In the Civil War it was found the velocity of fire was more important that single fire weapons. Also, Crazy Horse circled behind.
@@jamesb4789 sorry but 44 Henry Rim fire and 44-40 could not out range the 45-70, even if the latter was fired out of a carbine length barrel. It’s comparing the equivalent of handgun cartridges out of a rifle vs actual rifle cartridges from a rifle. To say that they could is like saying 45 Colt out of a rifle could equal or surpass 45-70. And the 44 Henry Rimfire had even worse ballistics than the 44-40. You are right about jams being problematic, but you have to remember that metallic cartridges were still a relatively new concept and there were growing pains in its development post Civil War. Even so, while jams did occur, why didn’t Reno’s smaller force get wiped out? Either in the woods but especially up on the hill? Where are the countless mentions of trapdoors failing them? They had the same equipment as Custer’s battalion. I would imagine that failing rifles in the midst of a live or die situation would have become a major theme of the history of that defense. The trapdoors used were model 1873. These were not left over civil war stock but were new. Not to mention that this cartridge (45-70) was first invented specifically for the Springfield trapdoor model 1873. They were both relatively new in service. Lastly, I would hypothesize that Reno’s defensive position on the hill afforded his troops a good open field of fire to really utilize the 45-70. Yes they did take some long distance fire from natives but I seriously doubt these were from Henrys. Some Natives did have other rifles, some of which could shoot across long open distances such as Sharps rifles. I presume that Custer and Keogh’s defensive positions didn’t afford them the same protection. There are numerous gullies that run up towards those positions. It’s also why Reno had to withdraw during his initial engagement in the valley at the start of the fight. If the enemy was able to close faster than your single shots could keep them at distance, you could be threatened with being overrun. I don’t think this is any real indication of inherent problems with the Springfields but of tactics.
I enjoy all your podcasts, but the episodes on the Little Big Horn had me riveted throughout. What characters! And how you brought them vividly to life. Well done, and very many thanks.
That's a crock of shit. It was Custer's regiment. He was in command. If the Seventh Cavalry won the day, Custer would have received his laurels. He didn't need to divide his forces in order to achieve glory; Custer would have received glory for himself, and his regiment, if the Seventh had a victory. Custer wanted his regiment to win the battle, you idiot. If his subordinate officers (Reno and Benteen) happened to receive accolades for a successful battle, so be it. Custer would have received his honors too; after all, it was his regiment, and he was in charge of it. Custer divided his forces because, when attacking an Indian village - especially a large one - it was best to hit the village from different directions, using 2 or 3 separate battalions. This was a tried and true maneuver in Indian warfare called an "envelopment" tactic.
A couple of comment that clarify some things. 1. The expedition plan was a three prog advance to pen in the tribes and escort them back to the reservation. Custer and Reno were at the briefing so at least Reno knew the plan. Custer's orders were to join up with General Terry on the Big Horn River a few miles from Reno Hill on June 27th. IF Custer's 7th had moved the standard distances normal for the heat and terrain, he would have reached the rendezvous on the evening of the 26th. Instead, Custer lead forced marches to get there early on the 25th including marching nearly all night on the 24th/25th. Why? 2. Every survivor said the same thing, the horses were exhausted when they arrived at the Little Big Horn. They rested on a short time with minimal water for the horses. By the time the battle was engaged, the horses no longer could gallop. The field was large and sprawling. what was a distance of over 3 miles as the crow flies between Reno and Custer was in reality closer to 7 on good riding terrain. In that era, a mile of distance is more like 10 to us. By the time the message arrived telling Benteen to hurry forward, it was in reality too late because the horses could not move fast enough. 3. Civilians think all rifles sound the same, but the truth is an experienced trooper could tell the difference. They knew the Indians had many repeaters because of the sounds. It also is very important to realize they also knew the repeaters in the hands of good rifleman had twice the effective range of the single shot carbines which were left over and out of date Civil War weapons. The Indian tactics had their riflemen pinning down the troopers while others crept forward and used arrows as indirect fire on Calhoun Hill and Last Stand Hill. The tactic did not work as well on Reno's hill because the terrain was different (few ravines) and the men built and dug rough rifle pits. The low Indian losses reflect this. 4. Before leaving for the Big Horn campaign, Custer met with representatives of the Democrat party about running for President. Notes survived from the meeting and Custer understood he needed to claim the victory and the glory to get the nomination. That quest explains the forced marches and not waiting per orders. Custer himself had only two tactics. Charge blindly or in the West take hostages. During the Civil war his units had the highest losses in the entire US army. What people ignore is sending in Reno would have been a tactic for Reno to draw off the warriors while he rode around and seized the women and Children as hostages, something he did before. It explains the report of observing Reno's attack falter, but he continued on to grab hostages. Initial reports in the Army show utter disgust at Custer and put the blame on him. The shift to Benteen and Reno was a direct result of Custer's Widow launching what is effectively a propaganda campaign. It worked because the Indian wars were slowly coming to an end and the Army was afraid to fight back when budgets were being cut. Custer's widow came from a prominent family with connections which also was a factor. And it was the beginning of the period known as "yellow journalism" with everyone writing outlandish tales to sell cheap papers and books. The fault lies on Custer's shoulders, period. Reno's attack never had a chance with tired men and horses across rough terrain. Benteen never had enough men to make a difference to Custer and he made the correct decision. Custer divided up his forces with no regard to reality, and he had an agenda for a glorious victory. You also failed to mention Custer's chest wound was not fatal. The bullet to the temple was and there were gun powder burns indicating suicide.
jamesb4: Clarify things? Clarify things, my ass. Your comments are ridiculous, flawed and unfounded. Nowhere in his orders to him does General Terry specify an exact date when his column would meet up with Custer at the Little Bighorn River. Given the terrain the Montana column had to traverse, it was not possible to give an exact date, but General Terry did, offhandedly, mention a "possible" date of June 26. While following the Indian trail up the Rosebud River, en route to the Little Bighorn valley, Custer did not "force march" his regiment. The Seventh Cavalry rode about 30 miles a day - sometimes a little more, sometimes less. Thirty miles a day was an average march for cavalrymen on a campaign trail. On the evening of June 24th, Custer ordered a night march in order to get closer to his objective. The column mounted up at 11:00 pm, and it rode until 2:00 am - hardly an "all night march". By the way, at the Little Bighorn, the troopers of the Seventh Cavalry were not using "left over and out of date Civil War weapons". They were using Model 1873, trapdoor, Springfield carbines. The effective range of this weapon was superior to any Winchester or Henry repeater. You're an idiot. On June 25th, Custer's initial plan was to conceal his regiment, rest his men and horses, reconnoiter the area around the village with his scouts, then attack the village on June 26th - which was the very day the Terry/Gibbon column was purportedly suppose to arrive from the north. For all of that, during the early morning hours of June 25, Custer's scouts informed him that the regiment had likely been observed by wandering Sioux and Cheyenne hunting parties; as such, Custer's Indian scouts wanted him to attack the village as soon as possible, but Custer still wanted to wait until the 26th to attack. Later that morning, more news filtered in that proved, without a doubt, that the Indians were aware of the Seventh Cavalry's presence. Once Custer received this latest intelligence, he altered his plans and wisely decided to take the advice of his scouts by attacking the village that very day - June 25th. And the truth of the matter is this: Custer's only viable option was to attack the village as soon as possible. If he waited, the Natives in the village would have had ample time to scatter and flee. Such a result would have compromised the goal of the entire campaign - which was to find the Indians, and prevent them from escaping. Moreover, if Custer decided to wait, he would have been putting his entire regiment at risk. The warriors in the village, knowing the Bluecoats were near, likely would have tried to ambush the regiment at a time and place of their own choosing. The horses were tired, sure, but they could no longer gallop? Really? Where the hell do you get this information? What are your sources? There are no accounts whatsoever that say the horses of the Seventh Cavalry were dropping out in droves from thirst and exhaustion. Incidentally, Boston Custer managed to move fast enough to catch up with his older brother, and he was with the pack train, but you're saying Benteen's horses could not? Did Benteen not spend around 20 minutes watering his horses at the morass? And when he was on his scout, and in order to spare tiring out the horses of his battalion, didn't Benteen assign the traversing of all those hills to a small detail of men led by Lt. Gibson? Yes, he did. Prior to the Little Bighorn, "Custer met with representatives of the Democratic party about running for President", huh? Again, where in the hell do you get your "facts"? Seriously, I'd like to know. Here's a bonafide fact for you: there is not a modicum of historical evidence that suggests George Armstrong Custer was vying for the Presidency of the U.S. As a matter of fact, his wife dissuaded him from any kind of political ambitions because she thought it didn't suit him, and Custer readily agreed with her. Custer's chest wound was not fatal, eh? This was the wound near his heart, where all the blood was, but it wasn't fatal, huh? And the bullet wound to Custer's temple indicated suicide? That's funny, because historians and scholars all agree that George Armstrong Custer did not possess the temperament or wherewithal to commit self-slaughter; he would have went down fighting to the end. Besides, right-handed people aren't apt to shoot themselves in the left temple. You're an unread, dense, and deluded dimwit, Jamesb4. You should do a lot more research b4 posting erroneous, half-baked, and opinionated comments on public platforms such as RU-vid. Then again, maybe you enjoy embarrassing yourself with your ignorance.
Clarify things? Clarify things. My ass. .44 rimfire repeaters don't have half the effective distance of the calvary's .45-70's. You clearly don't know anything about guns and this leads me to believe you are wrong about everything else too. Looking to sound smart and informed when you're an actual cave man. Like an actual hairy caveman. From the Geico commercial !
What might be an interesting counterpoint to the US Army’s experience at Little Bighorn is the British Army’s experience in South Africa only three years later. In January 1879, a British expeditionary force under Lord Chelmsford was surprised by a massive assault by Zulu impis at Isandlwana. Utilising their hallmark tactic of head, horns, and loins formation, the estimated 15,000 Zulu warriors attacked a British column of over 1,800 men, putting them to rout and killing more than 1,300. However, at the nearby outpost of Rorke’s Drift, a mere 139 British troops held out successfully against successive assaults by a force of approximately 4,500 Zulu warriors, inflicting severe casualties on the native attackers. In this engagement, the 24th Foot suffered but 17 men killed in action and ten wounded, while the Zulu attackers are believed to have lost more than 500 men. Thus Reno’s Hill and Rorke’s Drift may provide instructive counterpoints to Last Stand Hill and Isandlwana. In combat, discipline, firepower, and intelligent leadership proved to be the trump card.
Having visited the battle site in Montana my first reaction was that the area is quite confined considering the geography and it would’ve been fairly easy for Custer, Benteen and Reno to ascertain the number of Sioux, Cheyanne, etc warriors they were up against and wait at a distance for reinforcements. Clearly arrogance was at the core of this “blunder”.
It seems small to us because we are used to greater distances and much faster speed. If you want to understand it, ride a horse on the field. I grew up near Gettysburg and you cannot understand the battle unless you walk it, especially Picket's Charge. Little Big Horn is he same. I was there in the late 60's with the family and we did a horseback tour. Years later I was there and just drove around and it is a different world.
I can't believe I've never heard this podcast before. My dad's dad's dad AND my dad's mom's dad were both in Custer's 7th Calvary. Why is it English people narrate American history more eloquently and coherently than "Merican folks" do?
Good to recognize the unique achievements of the Indians in this campaign. The Indians had never put together such force before and properly handled it.
There was no way the Lakota and Cheyenne were going to do a Zulu-like charge against Reno and Benteen's 350 troops who were dug in and pretty concentrated. They lacked the discipline to take the sort of casualties they would incur overrunning the position, casualties they could not readily replace as a people.Furthermore, by keeping the survivors of the 7th pinned down the Lakota achieved their goal of protecting the village. When Terry approached they sensibly rode off.
I wonder what would happen if the 2 sides were even, it's known that the overwhelming numbers of the Indians put Custer at a complete disadvantage, the 7th was outnumbered 3-1 overall I think. But what if the number of warriors and troopers were equal?
Custer had been treated for syphilis years earlier at Ft Sill, Oklahoma, and this disease may have spread to his brain by 1876; leaving discernible trace with aberrant command decisions now considered illogical.
I cant wait for the new episodes on WW1 and Franz ferdinand to be uploaded, listened to the first ep and found out you were on location so patiently waiting for hopefully a video version :)
Found Dominic and Tom last year while absorbing all I could about the fall of the Aztecs. Of course, I stumbled upon their epic series on the fall of the Me-shee-ka. I became a subscriber after the first episode, and I must say it’s probably the best investment I’ve ever made entertainment wise. As an American, I learned more about Custer and his final days through this series than my previous 40 years in the states. So informative, gripping, hilarious at times, and haunting. A true masterpiece of storytelling. But it’s like this with all subjects these gentlemen dive into. I look forward in anticipation to every time Theo drops a new gem. I’ve also recently read Tom’s Rubicon and have three of Dom’s Adventure in Time books on the way for me and kiddos. Thanks for all that you do fellas.
Growing up less than 60 miles away from the Little Bighorn Battlefield, I too was fascinated with the stories of what happened on that fateful day. I read every book I could get my hands on and spent many time at cemetery as my uncle was buried there (and eventually my grandparents). As you mentioned, the irony of the Native Americans and Sitting Bull's great victory meant their future defeat was near. But if you go to the battlefield today, you will see something that was not there where I was a kid. It is the honor that is given to the Native warriors who won that day, not just Custer and the 13th Cavalry. You will also see the hope that we can live with each other, sharing Montana.
Marcus Reno was definitely not a coward. He served on the staff of Torbert‘s cavalry corps. When Sheridan left in the valley and joined Grant at Petersburg, Torbert and Reno stayed behind. Reno led a number of scouting expeditions in March 1865. I believe he engineer the surrender of John Mosby, the gray ghost.
I believe he was told to wait till the infantry arrived to make an all out attack so he disobeyed his orders he killed all his men for his dream of glory which he wanted for himself
custer was arrogant but brave to the point of idiocy, he cared nothing about his men all he was good for was charging the enemy, he was on his way down to military obscurity and was looking for public office, he was a glory hunter overstepped and got his comeuppance, his wife spent the rest of her life living off his stupidity by idolising his reputation and decrying the behaviour of his officers for not supporting him. Americans to date always cover their disasters , Routes , Failures and cowardice by giving it the hollywood treatment, by giving out swathes of medals just like the british did at rorke's drift in the zulu wars, we saw this American prevarication at kasserine pass, the battle of the bulge, and more recently Vietnam and afghanistan where they betrayed their allies and ran away.
That was great historic coverage! I quickly learned that the Indian leaders had a clear strategy. Custer on the other hand was very aware of the times that R.E Lee and Stonewall Jackson split up their forces and were successful in doing it. Yet the lesson that he should have learned from them is the fact that they didn’t have an ego problem with slipping out of an area at night when they knew they were outnumbered. The Indian scouts had to know those numbers. Sometimes when the ego rules intelligence drools.
Absolutely fantastic series. You remind me of and then I bought the Custer archaeology book. I also quite liked your epic series on Cortes and Montezuma and the fall of his empire.
In my opinion. Crazy Horse and Sitting Bull are some of the best American military generals that rank right up there with Grant, Patton and Eisenhower. It’s a shame that they don’t get the recognition they truly deserve.
One of the things that strikes me is throwing out that Benteen and Reno were cowards, Reno was drunk, and Benteen was so petty that he refused to follow orders. Both Benteen and Reno saw heavy action in the Civil War and were decorated for their actions. Reno being drunk is primarily based on one soldier who he had disciplined for stealing food. Drinking on duty was not viewed then as it is today, look at Grant in the Civil War. And as for him being drunk during the battle, how much liquor would he be carrying? They start out talking about the fact that Custer had run his forces hard the day before, then got them up to move at night, and then takes them into battle early on, but drop that later. If you get out to the battle field and look at the terrain and the think about Benteen's movements. Custer had him scouting out from where he was split off. His three companies had ridden up and down two ridges. He sent a small group to scout up a third and when they returned with no sightings, the unit had to retrace up and down that same difficult terrain. By the time they get to the creek, they need to water the horses and they have already ridden miles further and have to catch up with the rest of the 7th Cavalry. When they meet up with Reno, he is outranked and Reno's forces are in disarray, there is no way he could move out immediately.
There is the possibility that Benteen believed so strongly in Custer's persona that he believed that Custer was likely winning not believing he could be defeated so totally, likely partially in shock of the battles and facing his own demise. Something else that we will never really know. Custer could not have died any other way than in battle.
Fantastic series. Born in 68, this was my first SERIOUS interest in an event of history. I even eventually served with the seventh on the DMZ in Korea. Their NCO Club was amazing, huge mural of the battle on the wall. Benteen is celebrated for putting his command first. Custer not so much.
1. Did you know that Tom Custer was one of the few men to win two Medals of Honor? 2. Stephen Ambrose (Band of Brothers) has a book: "Crazy Horse and Custer: The Parallel Lived of Two American Warriors." 3. The evidence suggests that Custer positioned his men to await Benteen. 4. If Benteen had rushed to Custer, that probably would have take pressure off Reno, and might have been a game-changer for Custer. It would have had shock value. 5. I firmly believe that Custer's last 50 words were: "Where the eff is Benteen?" times 10.
Frederick Whitaker was the adjutant for the third cavalry, division, army of the Potomac cavalry corps In 1863 he was on the staff of hJudson Kilpatrick. In 1864 he served on the staff of James H. Wilson. Custer took over the division after Winchester and Whitaker then served on Custers staff. The officers and men of the third division worshiped Custer. He wore a red necktie, so they all started wearing red neck ties. Whitaker won the medal of honor for his services with the third division.
It's plausible to me that Tom would have thought very very hard in the end. You have to remember he won the Congressional medal of Honor I believe twice during the civil war and was a decorated and celebrated war hero of the American civil war. Not to mention he's fighting alongside his actual kin his blood his brothers. I like to believe that Tom in the end thought maybe he could do something to save his brother....
It always troubles me when the bodies / and conditions of George Custer and Tom Custer are glossed over…. which they kinda do here. A few things::: 1. GAC wasn’t respected or honored by the Plains Indians (PI). There was NO reason for them not to mutilate his body unless they weren’t sure of his identity. There is the apocryphal story that a PI woman put awls in his ears because he wouldn’t listen. And an arrow shaft in his penis to shame his body. But in my opinion, this is taking the facts (the condition of GAC’s body) to fit the story. GAC was a hated enemy. If they truly knew his identity on the battlefield (btw, there were several officers that either wore full buckskins or partial buckskins in the battle, including Tom Custer), there is no doubt that he would’ve been fully mutilated. 2. Speaking of which, Tom Custer’s body was wreaked - head caved in, limbs mostly cut off, scalped, shot, gutted, deep slicing wounds down to the bone, pierced with almost 20 arrows (which happens when the hatred of the PI is so strong that even after their enemy is dead, they just fill the body up with arrow shot after arrow shot.) Tom Custer’s body, which was only yards away from GAC, was so mutilated that he was only recognized by the tattoo of his initials on his arm. So why was TC’s body wreaked, but GAC’s body left relatively unscathed? To me, there are 1 of 2 reasons: 1. Tom Custer was a 2 time Medal of Honor winner…which is practically unheard of. He was known as an unlikeable son of a bitch. And an absolutely demonic soldier. So it is entirely plausible that TC was such a barbaric and deadly fighter in this battle that after he was killed, the PI’s wanted to completely destroy and degrade his body. Yes. That’s possible and plausible. Or, 2. It’s even more likely that his maniacal battle prowess led the PI to assume/believe that he, in fact, was actually GAC. It should be noted that GAC’s hair was cut short before the battle. And TC’s hair was long. It is certainly feasible that the PI simply confused the 2 similarly dressed brothers. Hence, the vastly disparate treatment of the 2 bodies.
When Benteen reached Reno (about 2:05), both their troops heard volleys from couple miles north (where Custer had ridden). A volley is an organized, dismounted, under-pressure defensive tactic, so Benteen and Reno knew that Custer was in a defensive position in a hard fight. At the Reno inquiry B and R claimed they heard no volleys but most of the other witnesses, including a hard-of-hearing officer, said they heard volleys. I presume B and R were lying to exculpate themselves. Custer's note said "Big Indian Village. Bring Paks. Be Quick." At this time most of the Indians attacking Reno ran northward toward the Custer gunfire. Reno then spends 40 minutes hiking down toward the river to find the body of his slain adjutant, during which time Custer, Keogh and Calhoun are fighting for their lives. Around 2:40 Weir, a pal of Custer, contrary to Benteen's orders, starts his company north to arrive at Weir Point about 3:10. B and R follow but they all turn back when they see Indians headed toward them from the north, where they also saw Indians shooting down into the ground. Years later in letters, Benteen admits he detested Custer and was glad Custer, his two brothers, his nephew, his brother-in-law and his adjutant were killed. Benteen didn't exactly follow orders, but from accounts of Reno survivors, one gets the picture that the numbers of Indians vastly outweighed soldiers in all three fights -- Reno charge, Reno defensive and Custer-Calhoun battle. Hard job. Hard life.
The reports also made it clear the gun fire was mostly rifles not the Army Carbines carried by the Troopers. The more experienced men could tell the difference and it is clear the volume of Indian fire was most likely what was heard. I also think you assume it is troopers but why? Volley fire was rarely used by troopers in the west. From what I read, some of it was most likely Indian ambushes or even the pauses while they worked up to attack. You are also misunderstanding the time line. Benteen arrived somewhere between 2:00 and 2:10 at Reno's position. Weir came up with the pack mules at about 2:30/2:40. By the time he began to move the firing had died down to a steady but reduced level. Most evidence points to Indians finishing off wounded and stragglers from Custer's 5 companies. Weir and his men moved only about a mile before encountering a large force of warriors and they had to ride for their lives back to Reno's Hill. Reports from the Indians indicate most of the warriors left the Last Stand Hill and moved to attack Reno so it makes sense, but it also means Custer was probably dead by the time Weir got to Reno's position. Time for events in this period of history is very difficult. No one had standardized watches and they never bothered to coordinate them before an attack. Nor was there "secretaries" or aides keeping logs. Always take such references as approximations only.
@@jamesb4789 I am using RU-vid video Custer's Last Stand Timeline Analysis Animation for timing. Agree timing is uncertain. Have read no accounts that Indians fired in unison as in volleys. Only accounts were that they popped up and shot individually. Survivors from Reno report their initial skirmish line utilized volleys.
I watched a doco on the forensic search of Little Big Horn. Studies show that many of Custer's troop were in poor health. Skulls show a lot of tooth decay. Some were mere boys.
Honest criticism - it's what i do - I really love the format of the typical episodes, but the addition of title cards with the title music sting (which I normally love) - over played to the point of irritation. I endorse experimentation, but this detracted, for me.
Agreed. If they are trying to attract a larger audience on RU-vid all they need to do is upload their videos regularly. The corresponding podcast to this was released months ago.
Agreed. It needlessly interrupted the flow. The first couple of times, I had to look at my phone to make sure it didn't skip to another episode on it's own (that happens sometimes). I like that you are trying to make things better.....but this innovation, isn't one.
I spent a week in 1993 visiting the LBH battlefield and the 7th Cav route from their Yellowstone camp. I enjoyed this series immensely. I concluded that Custer's battalion fell quickly. 7th Cav cartridge finds on Luce & Nye Cartwright ridges indicate a running fight to Calhoun hill- Finley ridge from Medecine Tail coulee.. Thereafter a 'buffalo hunt' all the way to last stand hill. I doubt that Custer HQ group (plus E and F cos) ever travelled to a northern ford looking for captives (ford D). Last stand hill was about as far north as the 7th cavalry got IMHO. Maybe at most onto a part of cemetery ridge.
Jack Crabb : “I didn't say that. There are thousands of Indians down there. And when they get done with you, there won't be nothing left but a grease-spot. This ain't the Washita River, General, and them ain't helpless women and children waiting for you. They're Cheyenne braves, and Sioux. You go down there, General, if you've got the nerve.”. Quote from Little Big Man movie.
The story of the Nez Perce war is equal in depth and contradictions. It involves Otis Howard the goat of Carlottesville and Gettysberg, a hero under Sherman, the leader of the Freed'smen bureau, the founder of Howard University and the bungling administrator of the Nez Perce tragedy.
Hey, I’ve been listening to a lot of different accounts plus your account of the battle of the little big horn recently. I had the pleasure to actually go there and I was overwhelmed by the size of this battlefield for that day in that terrain and I thought that Custer was over his head to begin with, and how he thought that he ever had the upper hand is beyond me that being said there’s a bigger defeat by the United States Army I believe in the late 1890s in Ohio where the United States army lost about 90%, including civilians in a battle with the Indians in northern Ohio northeast Ohio western Indiana in that area and that is something that you guys should talk about
Hello gents. If you ever deign to visit this area (I live in Sheridan, about an hours drive south), I suggest visiting in June. It's by far the most beautiful time of year here.
The orders are clear. Benteen disobeyed orders. Benteen was to hurry in getting the ammunition to Custer (not just come without it). Custer’s men only carried 50 rounds each and they need more ammunition and more people too. There were thousands of braves against them.
Custers orders were disorganized And not to awful intelligent If he would have chilled out until the other party’s arrived things possibly would have gone differently…. He got what was coming to him For his ignorance and arrogance
@@ericstevens8744 Have you ever been to the battle site? I completely disagree with your emotion conclusion. By the way, you misspelled “too” Mr. expert. The orders were clear and concise. In the end, Custer and his men were overrun with thousands of Indian braves killing Custer’s men as they were trying to escape. If you ever studied any of the battle you would know Benteen was never coming to Custer’s aid.
You’re wrong 😑. Custer was told by general Terry to make whatever decisions he saw prudent before he left And yes I’ve been to Little Bighorn Those quarter horses were nothing like Indian ponies. Custer never thought about the terrain …never thought about the horses 🐎 being tired … Custer never thought of actually doing a scouting mission to assess the terrain or the Indian village He never took seriously his scouts telling him there was no way in hell that they could deal with such enemy numbers …. I’ve walked the battlefield I know what it looks like. I understand the coulees and ravines and ridges… Making hasty decisions because your more concerned about the Whitehouse than your Mission Shows terrible judgement and hubris … He got was coming to him… stupid. Games win you stupid prizes
@@ericstevens8744 You could have crapped and fell back in it too. Custer understood the terrain, he led the expedition in 1874 when they found gold. That led to settlers wanting to go onto Indian land. He didn’t take sabers due to the clanging noise they made. He didn’t take gatling guns because they slowed everyone down and didn’t work that well (jammed). He had his Indian scouts out scouting for the Indian camp. They found it and he wanted to act quickly since Indians were notorious for packing their camp up and leaving. The military often times lost the entire tribe and had to start all over again. You obviously have never studied the facts. Go study and then we can discuss the facts, opposed to your emotional bias. I see no need to respond to you any further
Many of the Native American fighters said that some of Custer's troops (including Custer himself) committed suicide as they were surrounded, I am curious why this wasn't discussed/explored as a possibility. Or even to debunk why it was unlikely.
It is interesting that ALL encounters in the open resulted in rapid defeat and/or retreat. Reno in the valley, Benteen + Reno at Weir point and the panicked retreat from same. We expect the Custer battalion to have behaved very differently but I doubt it. They were caught in the open and rapidly defeated in detail. The Reno-Benteen plus Pact Train remnant dug in and held out for 2 more days. However if Terry had not arrived within three days the 7th Cav would likely have been massacred to a man when their meagre water supply finally ran out and their ability to fight or stay awake was significantly eroded.
What do you think about the White Cow's (?) account? He stated he shot Custer while near the Little Bighorn River. Also a standard bearer was shot. Custer fell into the River. He further states troopers went into the water to retrieve him to drag his body to Last Stand Hill.
Are the huge misconceptions about this battle, and it finds its way into the paintings of the battle, the misconception is that the Indians were on horseback riding in circles around the beleaguered seventh cavalry. The t field simply did not permit this because of the rocks and the ravines. The Indians crept along the ground and got ever closer to the White House.. Also, there is a hill where a huge number of Indians assembled armed with Henry rifles. The battlefield archaeologist referred to this place as Henrieville, because there were enough Indians there to start a town.
Lotz of Indian battles fought with attacking bands so individual acts of bravery could be observed..some troopers were honored for their heroics..covered with Buffalo robes and not maimed mutilated
All the facts point to Tom Holland being correct , The Native Americans could not organise against even a smaller force for a length of time . There was no necessity for Custer to start an attack ; he could have waited for reinforcements. Primarily he was supposed to be making a scouting expedition .
they beat Crook on the Rosebud a week before this led by Crazy Horse. The fact is the US army never once defeated armed and ready warriors on the plains, only by attacking the camps full of women and children did they have victory in"BATTLE".
Custer was hoping to defeat and capture them before they split up and fled in different directions. He never believed that there would be such a large group that would stand and fight. He thought wrong, obviously. Custer also made the error of waiting for the arrival of Benteen who never came as ordered. He held his position to the north of the village and was slowly surrounded. I don't think he believed that Benteen was not coming until the very end when there was no possibility of escape.
@@rexmundi7811 yes I realise that but he had scouts and had been warned by his scout . He had the chance to look before he leapt . Get his supplies in order . His arrogance was such that he never thought he could be defeated .
@@rexmundi7811 to be fair they were under attack themselves don't know where Custer was. Reno was correct in advising Custer not to split their forces. At least they didn't lose all of their men
If Custer had slowed down and need more methodical in his planning….and if he would have been more patient and waited on the other Companies to get there so his forces were even in number , the Little Bighorn battle would have been won by Custer 💯
Great episode as usual. Small complaint, the musical interludes with title cards are actually pretty distracting and a tiny bit annoying. If those are kept, can the volume for those be dropped significantly from the main dialogue?
I just finished viewing ur video of the 7th cavalry and the battle of the little big horn. I must thank U both for the way it was presented in its fair and unimpartial way. American education for what ever reason has a tendency 2 distort facts and truth . U have shown to " err is human to forgive is divine " this plight of the native American and the American governments disingenuous behavior was the the motivator for the irreparable events that followed. The Indian won the battle but lost the war and they still fight today to reright the injustices of the past. I also now have a different take on the brave heros of the 7th calvary, however I look at the command staff of the 7th in a more realistic light having served in the US army circa Viet Nam. U guys were great in Ur presentation thank U, I look to the future for new episodes from U 😊
Episode 9. Great! When the dead soldiers were stripped and mutilated by the women and young boys, they usually dragged the bodies from where they fell. Hence, poor knowledge of the battle lines and placement of the headstones. Benteen and Reno's commands had 4 shovels and no picks to bury the dead. Only the officers received a bit soil over their bodies. One year later, the Army returned to identify the dead. They found nothing but scattered human and horse bones. Most of the headstones are a guess at best. The individual company flags are spelled strangely but pronounced "Guy Dons." You could also identify different Companies by the color of their horses. Example.... F Company rode brown horses. Company G all rode black horses. I believe that Company I all rode grey horses Indian accounts speak of "The Grey Horse Troops changing position" up on the bluffs near Custer I now step off of my soapbox. Thanks for your series.
Thank you both very much for your great telling of the build up , battle and aftermath of the battle of the little big horn. You make a great double act. Keep it going!
Where have you guys been? I'm starving for history.... And I agree with someone below that you don't need those banner interruptions. Breaks up the flow.
What “tactics” against a superior force could have resulted in a victory for Custer? His scouting reconnaissance provided size of village but not size & capability of the hostile force. Balancing the effectiveness of his own force (tired,drunken, low ammunition) with the element of surprise. Dividing his forces on rugged, hilly terrain made communication and coordination challenging. Lastly, they were outgunned by superior warriors who were provoked by his sneak attack on women & children thus fueling furious rage. Putting personality traits aside, I understand why Gen Terry, a cautious tactician, believed the battle was a huge blunder.
Undoubtedly great historians, but , in addition, master story tellers - infused with Brit'😊 understatement and irony. I would love to have lunch with these two, where, for once I would not be monopolising the conversation but the listener of the table !!!! 😊
Yes, no trees in bighorn, but the contours of the land is super rugged, coulees, in french and there were many. Very deceptive battlefield were men can creep up rapidly
From up top Custer could see the entire village …they had what we have now….binoculars…. Custer damn well knew exactly where the village was and he had to have a idea that its stretched out about 3 miles
Two British giys talking about Custer's Last Fight!?? Yes, but you guys did a great job! I've been to the battle field and i can tell you that Custer Hill is not a hill, its a slope off of a plateau. And George and Tom were killed at the top of the slope, not down where their markers are. The markers were moved when the mass grave and monument were put at the top. The only two soldiers that were not mutilated were Custer and Myles Keogh. You KNOW that while they were surrounded and fighting for their lives the Custer was cussing up a blue streak at Benteen, "Where the HELL is Benteen!" "Damn him!"i agree that most of the blame lies with Crooke for not reporting the Rosebud fight, in which he personally preformed very poorly and came very close to losing his command. They were saved by quick thinking subordinate officers. And remember, the strategy that Custer used he had used with much sucess in the past. And Custer Hill was not the "Last Stand". There were many reports by the indians that told of a group of soldiers who broke and ran for the river and were chased down and died fighting elsewhere, but probably not in Deep Ravine. It's not clear exactly where though. 1:01:56
The archaeology book you mentioned examines the prevailing cavalry doctrine, including splitting of a regiment into battalions, as Custer did. Custer's first stand (Trevilian Station) is equally interesting - he had form.
In the 1880s, the national Tribune began publication in Washington DC. At one point the magazine published part one of the reminiscences of Reno. I believe the reaction of the subscribers was so negative that the magazine refused to publish anymore of Reno’s writings. The national Tribune later became the stars and stripes.
Regarding Benteen's orders to 'come quick' He knew full well that the surrounding area was likely full of Sioux,Cheyenne etc And that Custer was likely already engaged in a fight... Benteen's orders were clear already Get moving NOW QUICKLY BRING PACKS. leaves little room for question..especially for a senior combat officer.
It’s seems like the note indicates Custer wanted the supplies and ammo more than the extra men. If we assume the fight goes well for the army, Benteen would have looked horrible if he arrived fast but without the pack train. He was supposed to hasten the pack train which was well behind Benteen.
Funny enough, a German switched horses with a wild mount at Ford D and it bolted straight into the encampment, and made it back to Reno's position with 5 gunshots and dropped dead. He became the horse, commanches caretaker being the sole survivor of his company, this German only to die at wounded knee
Mostly conjecture. All battlefield accounts by participating soldiers including battles like Gettysburg are often, in opposition & based on individual opinions. Mainly based on personal opinion. You guys even use Brit nomenclature. Smericans fought in 1776-81 to get away from such. Taking this w a grain of salt
The german that was the caretaker of commanche the horse, met a women and commache himself degraded in health and got super depressed as his main man was preoccupied. This despite being free to drink beer and be free in the fort unlike any other horse
There were at least a dozen mutilations in the village the first night. Several troopers got spooked and galloped straight into the village some stuck on their stirrups
LastStandHill clearly lasted longer than 1hour Indian accounts of mounted troop riding to bluff and Capt Weir and Benteen wittnessed battle while ragging even as Weir took 10 riders to knoll north of Benteens command
Reno left the relative safety of the cottonwoods as he realized he was facing far more gunfire than expected. The killing of his scout was in my opinion more myth than the reality
I just watched another Custer video a couple days ago. A guy had a magazine/book on from 1950, with an article written by a doctor who recovered Custer's body. Custer shot himself in the temple with a 41 gauge revolver he had been given by the manufacturer to test out. It used pointed bullets. The doctor pried out the bullet in Custer's head and it was that exact 41 gauge pointed bullet. One of the Indians had recounted reaching Custer's body, Custer was dead, but he cut out Custer's heart and bit some of it off to steal Custer's power. I don't know why the truth has never been officially reported except the VICTORS ALWAYS WRITE THE HISTORY. Custer was a pompous narcissist. That whole battle was his mistake. Just about all American history is all lies. Most of the "heroic" Civil War battle for instance, instead of brave charges by Confederates, they simply ran away, ran home. This was found out by National Geographic historians who took metal detectors to famous battle fields and mapped every bullet they found. The written history was proven false by what the actual artifacts found on the real battlefields.
How do we know Geo. Custer didn't order retreat to greasy grass/last stand hill?? 2 companies were beginning to assualt village and in mid-stream little bighorn river..Indian accounts from village and Released Indian scouts from Custer on bluffs above river both recounted how 2 buckskin riders were shot from mounts tumbling into river Why we know it was Geo. Custer?????? No one...in command structure or with personna or leadership could have halted charge in mid-stream...unless that leader had been fatally shot...why not continue attack?? Ur midstream?? Geo. Is clearly not able to continue the assault. 4 troopers at the forefront in this charge likely rode thru village..pfc korn..made it to Reno...pfc short..found on Rosebud river with dead mount..pockets stuffed with frogs..a troopers head with bugle found by Terry and Crooks men in village..and the disputable pfc Finkle whose recall supports some of Custers command did make it across LilbigRiver Further corabating testimony...Custer with shot in temple opposite his gun hand..likely semi-concious since his almost fatal chest shot in river crossing Mid stream attack halted???? Why???? Some of ur command already in village?? Your leader has been mortally wounded??? Why has this been missed for 150yrs plus?? The romantic narrative of Last Stand painters and historians would Never entertain such an inglorious end to a Brave,Brash,Dashing,Decorated CivilWar commander!!!
@@getoffenit7827 no, because this post is idiotic. Custer had nothing to do with Quantrill and didn't even fight in the same theater. The American Army learned to go after the Indian women and Children to force the men on the reservation. Kinda like how the Indians liked to torture and rape and enslave or kill white women and children to scare off settlers.
Heads up for Tom and Dominic. I live in Kansas, saw Comanche in Lawrence. The display was dark (I did get pictures!) And it was "under review" so they might remove it from the museum on the KU campus.
❓What if Custers plan was that Reno was supposed to attack and then retreat? Drawing the Warriors to chase after them leaving the village undefended. Then Custer and his battalion could go in and capture the women and children with out resistance. He didn't plan that the horses were too tired to run in the retreat. Or that they were seriously out numbered and outgunned.
Custer put a pistol bullet in his head , he had a prototype colt 1877 in .41 long . One of the field doctors seen the bullet bulge in the back of his head and cut it out , he had the other of the 3 pistols sent out to Terry I think for testing and compared bullets with his ammo and felt he had taken his own life .
