Cutting Down Floor Joists for Curbless Entry Shower in Upstairs Bathroom 

There area numerous variables involved when notching structural framing members! You should always have a structural engineer sign off on that type of work! I don't know your span on your floor system and notching those four or five joist probably will not effect anything. Did your 1/3 rule take into consideration the load of the roof above that is sitting 6 feet away from the bearing point below. Your plywood is installed incorrectly for strength! You also compromised the insulation on the exterior wall with the nitche!

Hi Isaac, it would have been nice if you show how did you shave the beams, tools etc. thanks

Can you show how you did the taper on the beams?

Man I love you! You have done it all, thanks! This is exact the situation for my current project!

That's what i like about our job.The fact that every job is done by the same steps but in the same time every job is unique by itself :)

Heads up to anybody else wanting to do this: I wanted to do this detail in a shower I'm working on. I just called Schluter to run it by them, and they said they wouldn't recommend, endorse, or warranty using ditra-heat over a plywood in a shower. You have to use either a mud base, or their foam pan.

I was just watching some of ur videos on my way home from work with my dad.

2:20 rewatching this and not sure if said this before….. BUT LOVE that everything is neat, clean, and tidy. All the cutting, tapering work that was done has been cleaned up (vacuumed assuming) and just have a great area to work on w/o getting crap everywhere and into materials👍🏻👍🏻 The attention to details like this, can make a great difference on a lot of projects, not just shower pan install, etc… Very nice guys✌🏻

Like 10 years ago I did a shower job for a carpenter where he planed and pitched the subfloor towards the wall. Then I jus applied fabric and liquid waterproofing over it. And I got a lot of haters on why I didn't do a proper mud pack before tiling. Now, with all the new materials with foam and all that, people are looking at tile substrate in a whole new light. I think the wood pitch is ingenious. Just like how in the 70s and 80s they thought it so smart to frame up, or down, to accommodate shower receptors. That's architecture, not just pasting down tiles.

May God bless your crew. 😉 I do tile and come by my friends trailer. He helped a guy get some work but I noticed lippage and uneven wall from just walking up on the shower. He noticed nothing but don’t know what to look for. I asked what was used for water management and/ or water proofing? He said all he bought was durarock. No linnet, unsealed bench and walls. I hate to break it to him but it all needs redone at this point. Unless u know any tricks. But I don’t bandaid jobs and don’t feel comfortable just doing the Floor ass he asked. Thanks for your time brother. I love u guys.

Tile Coach protects mother Earth.

Excited to see this job. Like “different” and this job is definitely different😉 Cool, or warm, to have that floor heat in the shower, and can’t wait to see what material they picked out for floor and walls. God bless Isaac and team✌🏻

Wow I can't wait to see how this turns out. This looks awesome 👏

You can only notch in the first 1/3 of floor joists on either end, however, the max notch size is limited to 1/6 in depth and 1/3 in width of the height of the floor joist. Any notch larger than this limit will need some structural reinforcement, such as metal strip, or double joists.

I love your videos bro. I'm going to a class in South Carolina in Sept. I'm really excited about learning this stuff. I'm a plumber for 10 yrs but I want to learn how to do tile and correctly. I've must of watched like 30 of your videos the past two weeks. thank you for your experience

Thanks for the great info, I'm getting ready to lower my floor. I'm using the Schluter pan, kerdi and ditra. This is a first time project. I was fortunate to attend a Schluter workshop on the process. Your videos are excellent. Going to go buy one of your shirts.

The Subfloor Lowering Kit from Ebbe America makes it easy to lower a subfloor!

Could you show how you actually cut the floor down.

Thank you for the 2 great tips now i learned how to my job a little bit better

That's crazy. California engineering. Next level. Good job.

Nice work Isaac. Love the detailed information.

I thought this was about the last job. Seemed confusing until you made it clear how it started. Please, do not forget to upload the footage of the last shower being finished. This one, too.

I’m excited to see this whole shower come together. Keep us updated

I love you too bro. You’re awesome. Thank you.

I have to do this to an existing bathroom floor. I'm searching for HOW to do this and not finding anything worth watching. I don't have a lot of room to work in - it's a manufactured home with a 2f-foot crawlspace underneath the floor. Any recommendations you may have are greatly appreciated! The cuts have to be precise for leveling, depth (1/2 inch) etc...

Why not just run your linear drain pan from right to left or from back to front . This way your high slope start side runs against the back wall and your zero degree side with linear drain butts against your field tile. They will both be the same height at that point . Then your your glass with a bottom seal gasket on that perimeter

A 2 X 12 is only 11 1/4" so you can't take out 2 inches. And your 2nd piece of plywood is installed in the wrong orientation with the floor joists.

You can always put a girder under mid span of those joists to support them

Insulation looks a little rough coach, spend the 50 for a bag of r12. No vapour barrier required for Northern Cali?

TY. Excellent information. But am I seeing pex supply on an exterior wall?

Why not slope it from the back wall to the front to make it curbless without having to modify the floor joists?

I've thought about doing a curdles in my bathroom. I have 16" floor trusses. All the members of the truss are laid so that the members are on edge. In other words, the trusses are 1 1/2" thick. I have 2 layers of 5/8" plywood on them for 1 1'4" total thickness. If I went curbless, I would put blocking nailed to the sides of the trusses set below the top of the truss the thickness of the plywood. So the most I can get is 1 1/4" of fall to the drain,, I would use a central drain. Shower would be 32"x72". I have Ditraheat on my floors so that gives me another 3/8"

I have a truss system 22’x 16” in a triangle pattern with a rectangle in the center. My trust are built out of two by fours. My subfloor is inch and an eighth. I forgot to ask the truss company to build in the trust to have the shower curb list. If I use blocking is there a Standard on cutting into truss!!???

No vent for the drain?

First comment! 🏆🥇😁 That's some tricky cutting. Looking forward to the project, especially the Ditra heat.

Why not use a custom curb-less shower pan from Encompass, they make custom solid shower bases with linear drain That you can install without having to notch the joists.

I am trying to find the other videos for the next step?

We try to avoid putting a niche on an outside wall not only for the loss of insulation but the chances that new siding gets installed with nails that might hit the tiled niche .

Do you have another video where you install the heated floor system and the water proofing? Did you install the water proof membrane directly over the wood subfloor or is there Kurti under the membrane like installed over the rest of the floor? Would love to see the full job, start to finish. Love your videos and the quality and love you apply to every job. Fantastic work.

Schluter has a tutorial on how to make a curbless shower and NOT cut the joists. I suggest that people do more research, we all have a world of knowledge in our very own pockets!

That's some shady looking insulation work you uncovered there

I'm running a Schluter pan (1-1/8" thick). I recessed my curbless area 3/4". Then Im running Ditra Heat on the rest of the bathroom subfloor (not including my shower), which leaves me with an 1/8 difference between the pan and subfloor. How would you make up for that difference?

Great explanation 👌

So the tile niche on the exterior wall doesn’t need to be insulated?

Great video as always! I noticed in this video that you are using a slot drain that only relies on the Kerdi Membrane that is factory attached. You have another video I recently watched that shows this membrane delimited from the metal and caused a serious water damage. I'm assuming this is because you are working with limited space due to the curb less situation. What are your thoughts on using a double system that has the membrane AND also the threaded traditional interface? Is that an over kill? I found that Infinity Drain makes one that has both and was wondering if you have an opinion on that.

Don't forget with your joists you are dealing with a nominal figure (2x12's in today's world can be from 11 1/4 to 11 1/2") which would skew your load figures. It is always the little things that bite you. Because you are dealing in a pretty heavy load bearing area it would not hurt to sister in a bit of additional stiffening and or blocking in the middle of your expanse.

Structural concern…Did you get approved?

I want to do a curbless wetroom bath on a upstairs but on a engineered floor truss. Think I'm gonna have build up since I'm 2ft on center trusses.

I would like to know/see how the joists were actually cut down.

Nicely done and explained!

Great video!!! Appreciate the insight and expertise!

One of my unusual circumstance is that I have a very small shower with a curb, and a closet directly next to the shower. I want to expand the shower while keeping a small portion of the shower. I want to do a curbless shower, but I'm remodeling by myself, I'm not sure if I can do it. I'm scared as woman doing htis job.

Thanks for sharing! How did you deal with the gravity venting for the linear drain?

Can you put a niche on an exterior wall?? What about the insulation?? Also is it ok for the floor heating system to run under the glass?

Isaac are you in my home ? All joking aside. I have the same layout in my tub and shower combo at the 2:55 time mark in the video. with the same style cabinet doors and drawers. I spoke to you back in November 2018 about my home, but never sent you the photos as I was hospitalized at the local Veterans hospital and had to put that project off. I am in the beginning phase to replace that built in tub and shower and go full ADA with a zero clearance to help with my disabilities. From Central California keep the videos coming and keep on doing that awesome art you and your crew do with tile. Perhaps I should send you those photos even if it is years since we spoke. Take Care Isaac aka Coach

i usually run the plywood opposite direction.

What if you ripped up the entire floor and sistered up the joists?

Do the wall as have to level to tile them floor to ceiling? I know it’ll look bad with the curve to it so how can I make hardie backer level? Can I mix the front of it to bring it level in the small/few spots that it is not?

Blanket Rule- never railroad your decking. and you did not mention a vent but I assume you have one. Also, appears to be 12" OC, you could have easily taken 2" across, and you could always double your joists with a 2X10.

good job

@TileCoach Hey Isaac, happy new year. I'm wondering if you have any vids for curbless methods in lowering floor using engineered I-Joists? I can't seem to find any. I'm a DIYer and I'd like to replace my 36x48 using Schluder pan. If you don't have anything, can you recommend any other youtuber affiliates who might? Thank you!

Code must be different on that side of the country. Here in Ohio, we can't just put the supply lines and mechanicals on an exterior wall like in this video. Obviously it's much colder. So what we would have had to do is build another walk In front of where his were and put the mechanicals there.

What if you were to double up the joist in the section you notch extended towards the center like 2'?

Wasnt the niche wall a gable?

great video

I can imagine what a mess the demolition was with all that tile.

Super helpful.

Hey Issac, that standard diameter shower drain pipe you ran to the toilet, I thought with even minimum slope the longest you could go is 6' before you siphon out your P trap..

3" toilet line?

But how did you cut down th joists?

why didnt you just take of some more subfloor and sister the floor joist ?

Why not use blocking and run your plywood in-between the joists instead of on top?

Don't forget that the water proofing should extend 1 foot into the room past the high point in the shower floor!

Must be nice to had wood to work with, the last 3 houses I’ve. Worked on have been on concrete slabs🤨

Why Not slope the opposite end and have the shower run high. Have the drain at the entrance Saw another shower that had the drain at the entrance and it looked good. Then you just need to add height not cut anything out. Have to see the layout again

The second piece of plywood is oriented incorrectly. This is not a trivial thing either.

What’s curbless? Sorry for the cuestión.

Not a fan of putting the drain on the shower head wall side. The reason being because of that sliver you had to cut because you have a sloped bathroom floor. If you put the drain on one side it looks a lot better. I’ve never had a customer complain of standing on a slightly sloped floor. But the finish looks better because you have the same reveal across the whole floor. And you don’t have a giant transition by the door to the hardwood.

If you had found engineered “I-beam” joists, you couldn’t have done that type of install?

Very cool

Nice

@ 6:29 you point out that you're going to put down Ditra heat AND Kerdi over that? Just curious 🤔

I probably still would have sistered up some rips of plywood to the joists.

Tricky!!👌

Cool.

Hopefully you consulted a structural engineer. Given the smaller than normal joist spacing that looks to be around 12" there were some load issues to begin with given the construction style.

NEVER CUT YOUR JOISTS !!! Use a 1 inch Schluter shower pan.

7:27 that guy needs to come back and fix that, that pipe is at way to tight of an angle and going to leak with time...

It’s called a jack stud🤔

plywood weak grain

dude,. every showetr does NOT need to be curbless.....

second place!!lol

Tell the owner of this house to just get a regular shower man . The curbless entry shower isn’t that much better looking than normal shower. Duh 🙄

Great videos, but, super f#@King weird when he says "I love you"

Great little drawing man but, the rules are not "general." They are very specific. And based on both your drawing AND what you've said in this video; your recollection of these rules is both wrong and incomplete. Hence this video advises people that they can do what they in FACT are NOT supposed to do. And we're not talking about some insignificant troweling error here: We're talking STRUCTURE. Bad moves in structure can be very costly to not only the wallet but also life and limb. Based on what you've said in this video, it's obvious you've made full-depth-allowed notches in floor joists before at a width that will accommodate dropping an entire pan without supplementing the joists in the thinking that there is no max width to your notch. If you haven't been faced with problems from having done this, then consider yourself lucky. Get yourself an IRC and go back over this stuff. I'm sure you'll find that publication to be valuable to you in many OTHER ways too....... Span tables for one. Regarding max WIDTH of a notch in a floor joist, you canNOT notch out the entire outer 1/3 of the length of your joist as appears in your drawing. And I'm assuming your blacked out section of the outer third of the joist represents that material having been removed because you DON'T have on your drawing the other parts of the rule. The maximum WIDTH of your notch is 1/3 of the DEPTH of the joist. So, you canNOT take away 2" of height of that joist for the entire outer 1/3 of it's length . You can't take ANY height off the joist over a length of the joist that is longer than 1/3 of it's height. AND, at the END (bearing points,) you cannot notch more than 1/4 of the depth. So..... not only is there a max DEPTH to your allowed notch but, there is also a max width. Notch depth max is 1/6 of joist height (for notches inSIDE the bearing endpoints) and max WIDTH of notch is 1/3 of joist height. And technically, you cannot take 2" out of the height of a 2x12. 2x12s are not 12" high; they are 11 1/4". 1 7/8" is your max. From the span tables in the IRC, you should be able to derive what you need to do to double up (sister) to get back to the initial strength of that original joist height; like for when you want to take out a notch wide enough to accommodate recessing an entire shower floor. I'm gonna check n I'll get back.

I edited this comment There are king studs, disregard my blindness. Also, you're using the IBC/IRC for what's allowable to those joists, which is no more than 25% of width, and 2x8's aren't 8". They're not universal, so kids watching at home, check with local code enforcement first. Other than that, good luck.

What’s curbless? Sorry for the cuestión.