Cutting Smash's Roster In Half But I'm Not A Coward 

Thanks for watching! I know this one's gonna be controversial because even as I'm writing this, all the early access comments already disagree with each other lol. I'll respond to some of the biggest arguments I see in the comments here: -Rosalina vs. Bowser Jr. was a bit of a toss up, but I think "Bowser and Bowser" is a little redundant if that makes sense, and Rosalina is the only true puppet character left after the cuts (Olimar doesn't really count). She has a VERY clear identity in Smash, whereas Jr.'s has always felt a little muddled. I do admit losing the Koopa Kids alongside him sucks though, there's a good case to be made for him entirely because of how well those work. -Cloud vs. Sora is one that I fully expected to see come up a lot, and look, take your spiky-haired anime boy of choice, I have no skin in the game here. -Raven Beak is realistically not viable compared to Sylux, although a) this video was recorded a few days before the Direct, and b) I still wish he was because he's so much cooler. -"You really cut all the Fire Emblem characters besides Marth" is being treated like something radioactive as if I haven't spent the last decade hearing complaints about how over-represented the series is lol. With the way Fire Emblem mechanics work there's nothing stopping you from adding a rotating hero that covers tons of cool, representative design space, while also keeping Marth both because he performs an important function in Smash and also represents the Fire Emblem legacy. -"You should have cut Jigglypuff." *No.* -"The Miis should have been condensed into a single fighter." This one I get the argument for, but Miis also perform a very important role by allowing a lot of characters into the series who couldn't become full-fledged fighters. I didn't talk about that element in the video too much, but it's a big one that wouldn't work very well if those characters were all forced into the same archetype. -"There's too much Gen 1 in the Pokemon rep." Yeah, probably, but that's kind of the nature of the beast when you have to get really reductionist. Lucario is one of the most iconic Gen 4 Pokemon, yes, but Mewtwo is one of _the_ most iconic Pokemon ever. Swapping them out to "spread the representation out more" just feels disingenuous, to name one of several examples. *Main channel:* ru-vid.com *Twitter:* twitter.com/MrMockRock *Patreon:* www.patreon.com/mockrock *Twitch:* www.twitch.tv/mockrocktwitch *Teespring:* teespring.com/stores/mockrock *TimeBolt affiliate link* (excellent software I use to speed up editing on my videos, use code "MOCKROCK" for a discount): mockrock--timebolt.thrivecart.com/order-page/

MOCKROCK! IT’S A TRAP! SMASH FANS JUST WANT TO GET ANGRY WHEN YOU INEVITABLY CUT A CHARACTER THEY LIKE! MOCKROOOOOOOOCK!

So hey, I'm the one who made that Jigglypuff rework, and not only did I just change Jigglypuff, I changed a lot more characters to generally be more faithful to their original incarnations

Mii fighters were made mainstays when Nintendo learned they could sell costumes

Here is a compromise for ""Ganondorf" should stay" people. We first cut "Ganondorf", then we introduce actual Ganondorf

"Cutting Piranha Plant without being a coward" You shall die braver than most.

Using Banjo’s uninspired moveset as a reason to axe them feels weird when you already kept so many characters with the excuse of “well they can just fix their moveset next time”.

I'd argue the main reason why the Miis will stay regardless of what literally anyone says, is because to Nintendo, they're money printing machines.

I appreciate you didn’t approach the 3rd parties from a “it might be rough for Nintendo to work out a deal with them”, cause realistically, after the Switch’s success, Nintendo shouldn’t have too much trouble working out licenses. And that reasoning in cut videos just makes it lame to cut them for that alone.

Surprised that Rosalina didn't end up as the last cut over Ike. I get she's a big name in Mario now but the greater Mario franchise makes up a literal fifth of this roster and it doesn't need every single one of those.

Mockrock forgot to put Rosalina's section in the video and yet still acts like we'd miss her if we had to give her the boot.

The only thing that really baffled me was cutting bowser junior over rosalina. Jr has been a consistent villain in many mainline mario games, while rosalina was important only in galaxy 1 and has since been relegated to spinoffs like the kart and party series. Plus junior also comes with the koopalings which are even more classic to nintendo history.

Mii fighter mains are at the level of confidence I want to have, because they see about 80 characters and decide "Nah, I'm cooler than all of these guys"

Me watching another “cutting half the roster” video knowing damn well my main is about to be cut:

This is actually way more agreeable to me than most other lists I’ve watched like this. In particular, cutting most of the “retro throwback” picks cleared up so much more room than most allow because they feel obligated to keep Game and Watch or Little Mac or ROB and then end up making ASININE cuts like Diddy Kong or Ness. My one complaint is that keeping Sora and cutting Cloud feels extremely weird to me. I think Cloud, while he is the protagonist of one game, is the clear Final Fantasy character who deserves to be in Smash most, and that series being completely cut while Kingdom Hearts stays feels weird considering KH is practically a spin off of FF. Then again, Persona is represented without any Shin Megami Tensei in the roster, so maybe I’m just being silly

You say you’re not being a coward about it but Echo Fighters being counted is the most cowardly. Go back and cut 4 more real characters

Was fully prepared for Falco to get the axe towards the end. I'm blaming the Wii U, and it's actually making me feel better.

Rosalina getting kept over Cloud and Ike is criminal

> I'm not a coward > Doesn't cut Puff ok

Cutting Ridley (one of Metroid's most iconic characters, who's been fan requested for years) and replacing him with a guy that appeared in _one game_ makes zero sense at all.

He really said that a bird is cooler than Ridley... Well, more power to him, even if he is just objectively wrong

I don't think cutting Ridley, King K. Rool, Banjo & Kazooie, and Cloud make sense considering how popular of requests they were. That just doesn’t make sense, especially because three of those were specifically mentioned by Sakurai to have done popular on the Smash Ballot. I think the glaring choices remaining were Toon Link and Rosalina & Luma. The former was especially odd when you cut Ike to keep him in. As for the latter, she's a popular character overall, but with Mario already having a healthy number of characters, I don't think the "puppet fighter" boon is enough of a justification. Also, why *not* have Animal Crossing have two characters? It's certainly big enough to. Heck, it could even get a third.

In my opinion, I think Echo Fighters should not count when splitting the roster in half. The entire purpose of Echo Fighters is to be extremely easy to implement clones of already existing characters, so it would take little to know actual effort to include them if they were to reset the roster. (and yes, I'm aware you mention this in the video)

14:31 playing Fodlan winds after cutting Byleth is MEAN

Feels really refreshing to see someone not immediately go “Steve is annoying and overtuned in Ultimate, I hope he’s never in Smash again 😡” lol

"I'm not a coward" "We're keeping the original 12"

The real fearless answer is to say that the "original 12" doesn't mean anything. Gen 1 of Pokemon has tons of representation in Smash, and Jigglypuff contributes significantly less to what is being represented. She's not a core part of the franchise, she was just a joke character on the N64. Cut!

I think the ideal scenario for the miis with cutting half the roster would be fusing all three into one mii that has one special from each mii in each slot this would also make the miis a lot more unique as characters since the specials who are clones if other moves can be cut out

Not bad choices. I would have cut 2 of the 3 Mii's tho. Combine them into 1 so that picking your moveset is actually picking your weapon, then you can keep Falco and Ike (Even tho I'd not be sad to see them go)

Keeping 3 miis HAS to be rage bait

I personally disagree with cutting Cloud OR Sephiroth, but keeping Sora which is from a sort of Final Fantasy Spinoff. Final Fantasy 7 is one of the biggest games ever made, unlike the rest of the franchise, not only that but Cloud's addition in 4 essentially opened the gates for anyone to be added, so he is pretty important to Smash itself aswell.

Fun fact: Duck Hunt alone has sold more than the entire Fire Emblem series. Just thought I'd point that out for absolutely no reason :)

Great list! I consistently appreciate your level-headed approach to what a character brings to the table as a whole. A few things I'd tweak for my own list: You mention cutting Robin because Smash has "other magic swordfighters", but then we lost Cloud, Corrin, Aegis, and Sephiroth... And while Sora is very much a magic swordfighter, I'd still personally swap back in Robin (for early/middle/present Fire Emblem representation) and remove Rosalina. Good character, important to Mario, but I don't consider her untouchable like the other core Mario characters are. Plus you can sort of argue that Olimar can do the puppet fighter thing, albeit differently. I just think you lose so much in terms of Fire Emblem itself's representation in Smash if you lose the character that actually uses Fire Emblem mechanics. You didn't mention splitting apart the Miis, but I would be okay with losing Mii Swordfighter. Plenty of other more interesting swordfighters, and having two custom characters is still more than most platform fighters can brag about. I'd add back Ken, who is a very important fighter, and even though you cut him early, I think he means so much to fighting games that I'd choose a similar playstyle to Ryu over a completely different playstyle (like Rosa). But still really reasonable! If this was the next Smash roster, I wouldn't be crying. Core 12 getting immunity is unfair but Smash is unfair (cries in Ganondorf)

Sweet, here's my monthly "why I'm cutting 6 to 7 Fire Emblem characters" video, oh joy ! All joking aside, it almost didn't hurt that time, you're pretty good at this stuff, Mock !

"But I'm Not A Coward" Proceeds to save Jigglypuff and throw out 7 of Fire Emblem's 8 reps.

“Cutting Smash's Roster In Half But I'm Not A Coward” Mario is cooked guys

If you really weren't a coward, you would've cut Jigglypuff.

People like to forget that the only reason Ice Climbers were cut previously was due to the technical limitations of the 3DS.

Gameplay reasons aside, I can’t comprehend keeping Rosalina (a two-off character that has been relegated to spin-off roster filler) or toon link over either Kazuya or Terry. Relegating an entire genre of sub genres into one character (Ryu) and one which smash exists as a subset of seems a bit silly. Also I don’t see how Sora would be worth keeping over Cloud.

Cutting all the Fire Emblem characters but Marth… yeah, I don’t think that would fly. I especially don’t see Alear making up for losing everyone else considering the divided thoughts on their game overall, nor would the prospect of a character nobody knows anything about yet. I feel like at least Byleth needs to stay especially, considering Three Houses is still one of the popular entries in the series and is the highest selling. I also don’t agree with dropping basically every first-party retro rep, I think at least Game & Watch and ROB should stay considering their history with Nintendo. Considering the nature of this type of video, there are bound to be various opinions, these are just my thoughts on the matter.

I am happy you kept Hero. Thank you for recognizing his awesomeness.

I would have cut rosalina rather than ike. Shes doesnt even really feel like a puppet character. She also hasnt appeared in a mainline mario game since galaxy 2. Shes cool but not that cool

Not a coward, yet doesnt cut anyone from the original 12. Totally not a coward. A few of them can easily go, but nope

Bonus comment: not keeping Terry I would disagree strongly with as KoF is a big reason we have smash to begin with. Full hops, short hops, spot dodge, dashing, taunting in a match, THE INVITATION WITH THE LETTER. All directly inspired from King of Fighters/FF

Cutting Ridley instead of reworking him is absolutely wild.

Cutting almost all the fire emblem cast but keeping Toon Link is CRAZY

I think cutting Rosalina would’ve made alot more sense at the end, her and diddy only rep a couple games with other reps already. Keeping Bowser Jr & Ike over the two probably would’ve been better.

I don't know anybody whod take toothpaste over Byleth. It doesn't help that Three Houses is just the better game.

For the Mii characters, I'd say there should be one customizable Mii encompassing all three of them. For example, you choose a Brawler, Gunner, or Swordfighter "body" which would give you all of the normal attacks from that archetype. Then, each special slot has one option from each archetype and you can assemble your own custom special moveset from there. Yes, balancing this could be a nightmare, but I think that could be a nice compromise.

Rosalina and Bayonetta getting kept over characters like Cloud or Falco is crazy

All I can say is thank god you arent in charge.

Snake I feel like is at a similar point as Captain Falcon where he has an identity as a smash character

I am not going to bother arguing with you based on the cuts I disagree with. This a thought experiment and his opinion calm down

>Not a Coward >Besides to treat all RPG (outside of Pokemon) characters as if they are all the same character both personality and moveset wise >Removes all but one Fighting Game Character because Fighting games mechanics are scary > Remove all of the "clones" but Keep Toon Link and Ganon because of clear bias. >Keep certain characters based on legacy but remove all retro throwbacks >Remove everyone from games you never played before This is pretty much every cut roster video or post ever made

The fact dexit happened 5 years ago this year is insane

I vastly prefer keeping Fox and Wolf rather than Fox/Falco.

Bro dropped Kazuya but kept Rosalina 🤦‍♂️

All of these "Cutting The Roster In Half" videos do nothing but confirm one thing for me: That the next Smash game is gonna be fuckin' *LAME*

I, as a ridley main, do not appreciate this undeserved slander. He is by far one of the most well-known antagonists in metroid history. He is quite literally the bowser to Samus and removing him would just feel wrong.

Pretty good roster. And the logic for most of your choices make perfect sense. Here's what I'd change: Cut - Meta Knight, Toon Link, Rosalina and Luma, and Sora Add - Mr. Game & Watch, Robin, Cloud, and Ridley As popular as Kirby is, I don't think it's on the same level as Zelda where it needs 3 whole reps on an incredibly limited roster. I decided to keep King Dedede as he's more important to the franchise overall. I think Mr. Game & Watch is far too iconic to cut. Not only is it technically a Smash original character, it also represents the earliest era of Nintendo video games. His appearance and animations are also super unique. I don't think this limited roster needs more than one version of Link. I don't think Toon Link's gameplay is substantially different from Link to the point where it justifies having another version of the same character. I would rather keep Zero Suit Samus over Toon Link. I think Ridley needs to stay. He's the second most iconic character of the series, and Metroid deserves more reps as the series is going through a revival. This also keeps a villain in the roster, which is much needed. If the next game wants to add Raven Beak or Sylux, that would be great, but not over Ridley, the most iconic villain in the franchise. I don't think Rosalina is on the level of any of the other Mario characters which justifies her staying. Depending on how you look at it, we already have 7 Mario characters (including Yoshi, Wario, and Donkey Kong) on the roster. We can let Rosalina go and give her spot to someone else. Someone like Robin, who would still only be the second Fire Emblem character in this roster. I had a tough time choosing between them and Byleth, but I ultimately chose Robin due to their unique playstyle. Plus, whatever new Fire Emblem character gets added will probably play closer to Byleth than Robin anyway. Finally, I'd just switch Sora with Cloud. Cloud, while only appearing in one game, is the face of Final Fantasy. Anyone that's decently into gaming knows who he is. And FF7 is so iconic that it has its own remake series. He deserves to stay on the roster. Sora and Kingdom Hearts have their dedicated fanbase, but they're not nearly as iconic as Cloud and Final Fantasy. Especially since Kingdom Hearts can be considered a spin-off of Final Fantasy.

I find “let Sakurai have his fun” to be… interesting reasons to keep Dedede and Meta Knight when Kirby is already slightly underrepresented as is in the character department imo (though I’ll admit I’m very biased since Kirby is my favorite game series) Outside of the keeping Jigglypuff because OG12 (which I respect, but heavily disagree) and Diddy Kong vs King K. Rool, I don’t really have a ton of major disagreements about this roster cut (though my brother is an Ike main and I’m a Dark Pit co-main so those hurt to see…). Robin was probably the roughest cut, as was not having a Final Fantasy character, but I’m not sure who you’d cut instead based on your own philosophies. I was waiting for you to suggest keeping one Mii Fighter slot, but I guess that’d be too easy. Also, I really do think Sakurai has to cut half (or almost half) of the current roster if we want new characters and the gameplay to feel fresh. Ultimate was largely built on Smash 4’s engine (a game that is almost _ten years old_ right now), and Sakurai has said that had they not done that, Ultimate would have around a third of 4’s roster.

Feels disingenuous to only keep 1 fire emblem rep, when they have 15+ games. Definitively would have kept byleth.

cutting Solid Snake from the roster should be criminal

It's still so baffling to see people keep cutting ROB in these kind of videos. Guys, he literally saved video games. Give him more credit, seriously. Not to mention that he feels like THE essential retro pick if there had to be one. But generally while most of the cuts here sting you handled it pretty fair. Fairer than most I'd say.

I genuinely don't think I'd play the game

"But I'm not a coward" Doesn't cut Jigglypuff. You're weak...

I'd be happy to see sora go, considering how inaccurate he is to his source material and how much disney doesn't want anything to do with smash. I'd then keep Cloud, who is the undeniable face of final fantasy.

Not cutting the miis and then cutting falco and ike while keeping toon link is one of the most stupid decisions I've ever seen

I'd argue you could cut Rosalina, she hasn't really been important in the series for a while now. Other than appearing in spin-offs, the only notable role she's had recently was Mario Rabbids Sparks of Hope, and that game is basically a fan game. Rosalina's basically a Waluigi at this point, if you could declone Daisy I'd honestly say she's better after being in Mario Wonder, but I think if anything Pauline would be the most likely with having a RECENT main role and being a spin-off character. So I think you can keep Ike :D Unrelated note, but I'd love to see a video on this channel of your take about adding 1 more rep to each series currently represented in Smash through characters. Maybe even a "most likely" character, and then your personal pick (plus some honorable mentions for other ideas and to add video time). Like Alear will probably be the next FE character, so that's the most likely, but maybe you really like Lyn, Hector, or Tiki. Or I think Kamek would be the next pic for the Yoshi franchise, but I'd love Poochy personally, that would be hilarious. Although you could probably skip Game & Watch and ROB 🤷‍♂️ Looking forward to your next video and whatever you come up with next!!

Not cutting Greninja is certainly an odd choice when Incineroar was cut for the same reason that applies to Greninja, no longer being relevant, its special snowflake form even has been cut now

Agree w another comment. Miis will never leave. However anyone feels about them, they’re able to be monetized w skins and costumes, so there’s no way they’re getting rid of them

Choosing to cut Robin, one of Smash’s only mages and Mr.FireEmblemAvatar, before Ike is certainly a decision. But hey, you eventually dropped your bias and cut him so, no real complaints. I will say that I think we could safely cut Mii Swordfighter and Gunner and have just Brawler. Gunner already feels like an inclusion made for sake of a trinity and Swordfighter feels like an admittance to the prevalence of swords in the game. Take some of their specials, give them to Brawler (renamed to Fighter or just Mii) as custom specials, and I think it could work.

it's a real shame so many people love to cut Richter from these fun rosters even though a large part of the Belmont moveset are abilities originating from him. it's probably tempting to cut a clone if you're doing the slash the roster in half challenge but in an actual Smash game i genuinely cannot see a reason why they would drop Richter entirely if they were going to bring back Simon. the Belmonts moveset was very clearly designed with the idea of Richter being a costume or echo in mind, with core moves from the kit including the down tilt, up special, and even the final smash being based on Richter's abilities in games like SOTN. contrast this to something like Ganondorf or Dark Samus where they could just easily slap them onto an existing character rig later in development and compromise those characters canon abilities in the process. even the direct presentation where they revealed the Belmonts has the note of "Simon can also be considered Richter's echo." it's also worth noting Richter's starring role in Castlevania: Nocturne, the most relevant Castlevania thing at the moment, but I doubt Smash fans actually care about Castlevania and just consider Richter an expendable slot waste no one likes, despite Richter seemingly being the preference for Belmont players. if they ever published online usage data and Simon was dead last, not Dark Pit, i wouldn't be that shocked.

the way people who get upset a youtuber decided to cut a character they liked in a silly video react to stuff like this gives me secondhand embarrassment, I just don't get it at all

as a mii main (all three) i assumed that we would just be an easy "yup there's three i can get rid of". i appreciate you seeing the value in them, although i understand why others do not care for them

Can't wait for Corrin and Dr.Mario to make it to the next game

Bro literally cut every character I play... I can't blame him but damn it hurt (I play Incineroar, Joker, Pichu, and Cloud)

Roy is considered not a clone but Lucas is lmfao

i'd argue piranha plant deserves to stay in more than rosalina. it's a much better representation of a character who has more history whereas rosalina feels like she was never meant to be a fighter and only got in due to the immense hype around mario galaxy

Rosalina surviving over Pyra/Mythra, Lucario, and Mr Game & Watch is absurd

well the only video game this guy has played is smash bros

I don't know, as you said, Robin is the face of the game that saved Fire Emblem. I really don't think he should be cut. Terry is also a character that doesn't just represent one long-running franchise, but most franchises released by a single company. Cutting him doesn't feel right either. Realistically, looking at Smash as a whole in its current state, it's way less of a Nintendo crossover game as it is a gaming crossover game as a whole. For that reason, I'd argue that Rosalina should be cut instead of Terry, because as far as mainline games go, she had two games and a third where she was a bonus character. I just don't think she's relevant enough to gaming as a whole to justify her inclusion in a halved roster. Likewise, I understand the argument for keeping the original 12... But Jigglypuff is a character that most people wouldn't exactly be as sad to see go, especially compared to Awakening's place in the game. I get as a Smash fan it feels wrong, but at the same time, looking at the bigger picture, I just think that makes more sense And in the same line of thinking with Smash's new identity... Two Donkey Kong characters, given it's a spinoff of Mario, is just too much. I'd argue cutting Diddy before Cloud, given to this day Cloud is still huge. And Bayonetta is just... not big enough compared to Snake or Joker. Also, Animal Crossing is a weird one, because as far as the popularity of the series goes, it could be argued that it does deserve two spots, but at the same time it just doesn't have as much potential. For me personally, given how Isabelle only debuted in New Leaf, Villager represents the series as a whole better. If, say, Tom Nook were in the game, then I could see cutting both Villager and Isabelle, or even just Villager. But if we're talking a sole rep, Villager should be the one.

i was on the same page until you cut mr game n watch. as the mr game n watch main, he is an essential inclusion in the roster as the absolute silliest fighter. the zany sounds, his pose-to-pose animations, how much he fucking sucks, playing game n watch is a great example of what i like to call “practical shitposting.” my perfect next smash game would include a janky game n watch with a moveset full of silly, impractical tech; the kind that you watch someone using and just laugh at how much effort they’re putting in to achieve so little. i would’ve liked if wii fit trainer was like this, because wii fit trainer in smash is a fundamentally silly concept, but no dice, and i support cutting them.

Cutting Snake but keeping Diddy Kong is genuinely insane

Keeping Bayonetta and Rosalina over Snake and Ike is wild to me. I don’t think those two had a big enough impact to justify cutting that much of one of the single biggest franchises in all of Japan by that much, nor cutting someone as iconic as Snake.

Bro really kept Hero but ditched Ridley

Miis aren’t going anywhere unfortunately, they are the only characters that Nintendo can monetize outside of the one time charge that they get for DLC characters

I feel Ridley is just kind of inevitable for Smash 6, even if evidently Sakurai doesn't like the idea. Ridley being revealed for SSBU was a big deal that basically told everyone that "all limits are off, anyone from a video game can get into this game" and going into the next one going like "sorry, no Ridley" feels kind of disingenous, and I know the Smash team is very well aware of that. "His moveset feels weird" doesn't feel like good justification if Ganondorf can survive through 4 games with mostly the same core moveset and identity.

Boiling take' saying that "villager is more of an avatar than a character" and "isabelle is the mascot of the franchise" is like putting in creeper but not steve

if you really weren't a coward, it'd be so easy to cut a third of the original 64 roster. everyone's too afraid to cut any of them in these but i don't see why. they can still get a lot of representation in other places than the playable roster and it's annoying that everyone puts them on a pedestal. we already got the smash game where we get every character from past games in, it's got all the series fan service, they really don't need to keep giving characters slots on the roster just because they're iconic to smash. it'd make a lot of people mad if they cut them, but that's why i say *if you weren't a coward, you can cut them very easily*.

- Lucario is more of a mainstay than Mewtwo, and gen 1 is already over-saturated with him AND Jigglypuff - Should’ve kept Ike or Robin over Toon Link - Game & Watch is THE retro character. - Rosalina is nowhere near as relevant as Mario, Luigi, Peach, Bowser, Yoshi and Wario - The Miis aren’t as necessary, it’s better to just keep one.

Another easy way to balance Steve out a bit more: turn off the Keep Inventory cheat. He shouldn't get to carry iron, diamonds, etc. between stocks. Every time he comes back to life, he has the same inventory he starts the match with.

thank you for keeping Isabelle, I see so many people saying there's no way in hell she'll ever comeback while villager is a guarantee and i just think.. what?

Ice Climbers got an audible gasp out of me

When I saw you snap little Mac I shed a single tear

Hear me out, the Miis are cool, sure, but these are iconic videogame characters that are being left away. The Miis just don't have the potential for creativity other characters have.

For the last two cuts, why don't you combine the mii fighters into one character? Instead of gunner, brawler, and sword fighter, combine elements of all three into the possible movesets. That way you can still play as yourself, but it's just one "Mii Fighter"

I get that legacy smash is a big factor, but I feel like gameplay should be a bigger factor. Characters like Cloud and Joker cut a strong balance between popularity due to gameplay, and representation. FF7 is one of the most iconic JRPGs in history and was a big turning point in smash since Cloud's inclusion meant basically anyone can make it in, It is also very current since it's 2 games into a remake trilogy. Persona 5 is the biggest JRPG in the past decade and even if that weren't the case, Joker can easily just have his and Arsene's model swapped with whoever the potential P6 protagonist would be and their first persona, kinda like hero. I'd argue they are both as iconic to ultimate as characters like fox and falcon are to the series, but represent their games better and don't have as much of a smash original moveset IMO, they're more deserving of a spot than characters like Puff. Let's be honest. She hasn't been a big presence in smash since melee and not only is her kit not very representative of her in her home games, she is the least iconic pokemon in smash by a large margin, especially since gen 1 is the most represented. Same can be said for Diddy. The Mario reps already take up like a fourth of the roster. And there are other item characters in the game, like pacman (which can't be said for the only puppet character in the game, Rosa) Also, as much as I love Ravenbeak, Ridley is way more iconic to the Metroid series than him and you chose to still include characters with more lacking movesets like Sonic, Toon Link and Ganondorf. Also, Metroid is an iconic first-party Nintendo series. I'd argue it's underrepresented currently with its 4 characters. Even if you cut half the roster, making Samus, one of the original 12, the only representative of the series is criminal.

How DARE you cut Ike, the fan favouritest lord and unique fighting style, to keep a second link when Zelda already had 3 >:0

Cutting Cloud but keeping Sora is insane. Cloud isn't just the protag of one game he's the FACE of the franchise and at this point FF7 could honestly be considered its own separate franchise. KH wouldn't even exist without FF7.