Carl is my favorite Monro engineer. Articulate, knowledgable and extremely telegenic. Remember - they did actually rush this thing out the door. Seems to me that some of the non critical components may be in early generations and due to be optimized. "When in doubt, make it stout, out of things you know about."
Agreed! Large People who weigh over 245 and way more pounds absolutely Need this type of seat framework! When vehicles like trucks driven hard and offroad, they Need this type of strength to keep a heavy person in control of a 8500 pound vehicle.
@@dporrasxtremeLS3I agree with you on this. I have a couple of friends who push the 350-400 lb mark. It is amazing to see mechanical things break under the force generated by their movements. Car seats, in particular, get maybe two years out of them before the seat back frame is shot.
When you're much taller than other people that drive the vehicle. the headrests must absolutely be adjustable. How hard is adding two more notches and a release?
'Hard'? not at all, its the COST that dictates the fixed headrest. I would GUESS the headrest frames are 'off the shelf' from "Ho Chi Minhs' EV parts supplies.
@@harriettanthony7352he specifically showed that it has all the components for it to be adjustable (in case of Model Y), it is even chromed. Just a few more notches are needed and something to press. If Ho Chi Minh has this on the shelf, they probably have it with 3 notches as well
My bet is that Engineering By Lawyers drove the decision to make the headrest non adjustable. There is probably a finite chance that an idiot could set the headrest inappropriately and get a whiplash injury in a crash. My question is how did Ford and others successfully argue to their lawyers that adjustability is OK? I’ve owned two cars with one piece seat backs and both were reasonably comfortable without a headrest. ‘98 NMW Z3 snd and a ‘01 Honda Insight. The simplicity of the seat backs give me the impression that they would be able to successfully deal with crash energy without falling apart.
Great video! People focus on price patterns, but volume is often ignored. I've been learning more about it and think combining volume with price action really improves technical analysis!
Look at aspects like historical volume, price fluctuations, and critical support and resistance levels. Monitoring volume as a stock approaches these levels is essential. Knowing broader market trends is also important-i got some help from my advisor on this, which has greatly enhanced my technique
Hi there, I never thought there was a single thing I could ever know that Carl hadn't already a masters in, but regarding adjustable head rest on front Seat (comment at 11:27), in my Model S it is possible to press the lumbar support and then a popup show up and if you click that you change from raising/lowing lumbar to raising/lowering head-rest instead. This clip show it perfectly well. ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-mJIwDLeoqOQ.html&ab_channel=SendItMedia Otherwise Carl is absolutely spot on as usual :) Great work!
Regarding the casting version of the riser vs the stamped version topic: it’s more than just a dollar per part equation. Factory footprint is apart of that math, how much space do the various stamping machines need, how many people need to operate them. They need to get welded which is another machine/process/people. What is the throughput at volume of stamping vs having it injection molded. Price parity only carries the conversation so far at Tesla as they move more towards automated build workflow and reducing factory footprint.
Usually Tesla's 1st gen of a new model are inefficiently built (ie. see Sandy's review of Model 3 when it initially came out. Model Y was based off model 3 so it already started off from a good base by 2020). Likely these choices were made to guarantee functionality and safety, but not build efficiency. Elon has stated on earnings calls that the team now has to go through cost reduction of every component in the Cybertruck to be able to further scale production. If these issues pointed out are economically disadvantageous, it is certain that Tesla will change them.
@@MunroLive tesla missed the mark they cannot build true a million vehicle like 2007 honda crv with k24 engines 1 million miles same engine that runs runs 5 seconds in 1/4 mile with billet blocks. there isnt a single true 1 million mile original battery/electric motors tesla on the road. electronic trash will never be more reliable than mechanical and an engineer should know this.
@@MunroLive I TOLD YOU CASTINGS SUCK LOOK @ WHISTLIN DIESELS CYBERTRUCK VIDEO HE LITERALLY RIPS THE REAR CASTING WITH HITCH STILL ATTACHED TO THE CASTING OFF THE TRUCK TRYING TO PULL ANOTHER TRUCK THATS STUCK.face-blue-smiling
@@billybobbob3003 FALSE. He broke the casting when it came slamming down from several feet and landed with full weight on the rear bumper early on in the video. No vehicle would have come out of that undamaged. Check other videos which show what actually happened. Clearly no bumper frame is designed for such an event, casting or not, most would have broken outright and the casting was more durable.
@@danfoley1429 a regular truck frame wouldnt of broke like that castings are brittle. same reason high horsepower engines are cnc machined billet blocks stronger than castings. stamped metal is stronger than castings also cause its more flexable/bendable.
I totally forgot about your Cybertruck content already. Been forever since RU-vid recommended me your videos. You should a video on how Tesla's engineers are coping with all the Cybertruck quality control issues ans how you would do it better.
You are looking at CT V1.0. They got it to production with a lot of new ideas. Now you build it and evaluate where you can improve it and reduce costs for 2.0. I found the adjustable headrest comments interesting. Not a challenge because your points are valid but I don't think I've ever adjusted a headrest. It sits back awaiting a collision and not much more.
Maybe the 10mm plate is a counterweight so the seat stays folded up? Regardless the rear seat structure with the casting below it seems super redundant
the seat locks down and up. Weight added to the hinge point has very little moment. In context of the entire seat, it would have to be several inches thick.
I have 2 thoughts to explain the castings. 1. They had to meet some crazy crash safety requirement that isn’t present in the vehicles with the stamped parts. 2. Elon just said make it out of a casting.
I'd probably use a high pressure die casting for Tesla's entire seat line for all vehicles and engineer a bunch of upper and lower frames that are modular with different seat foam build etc packing
If I understand correctly light trucks do not have to pass the crash levels of a passenger car. Ford/GM may be using less structural strength because they are not meeting passenger safety standard.. could the additional strength of The cybertruck be for meeting higher crash test standards?
Carl, while that portion of the seat frame looks like it's a cm thick, when you held and moved it over the bracket it rests on, it seemed like you were able to easily carry it one handed with a light grip, suggesting that it's not actually very heavy overall. Could it be hollow, 2 stampings for example, and just be well-disguised by the coating? Just guessing.
They don't give a f. They only care about their own profits not about the cheaply build products and not about the customers who have to deal with all the flaws
I was involved in the past in the design of VW/Audi car seat development. But what I see at the 10:27 minute mark of this video is that Tesla is only using copy-paste solutions. This is hilarious.
He slamed the whole truck on the bumper coming off the tube's. A scenario that would likely never happen in normal use. But it would be cool if they acknowledge it and beef up the 2nd Gen cyber truck.
I imagine that maybe seats are being redesigned for non-Foundation Series. My first idea will be to modify the rear backing plate of the cabin in order to combine the seat structure to the body in white. Next I will update front seat metal structure to be single piece.
Agreed, it does seem overbuilt and overcomplicated. Some would call this overengineered, but I'd call it underengineered. They didn't put in the time to optimize it.
I’m afraid adjustable headrests are just another fail point. I tugged on my Mercedes’ headrest while stretching and a component in the headrest popped. Now I drive the vehicle with a broken headrest because it costs over a grand to repair.
It is a pretty common design for hinged frames to be welded out of plate steel, and then bushing sleeves (to accept polymer or bronze bushings) welded-in for the hinges themselves. So you have three operations: cut (laser/plasma/waterjet) plate steel (or could even stamp for thinner plate), machine the sleeves, weld the sleeves to the plates. Now if you make the plate thicker like they did here, you eliminate the need for bushing sleeves as a separate part and reduce 3 operations into one. Yes, more metal is being used and the finished part is heavier, but the material is likely cheap in comparison to the use of multiple machines and they probably had some kind of weight budget (can't make the vehicle too light for towing purposes) to work with. Just my guess, nothing to back it with.
The 1cm thick plate steel might be there as a 'backup' for submarining in case the cast aluminum touch down surface. That aluminum is a brittle failure point and FEA might have indicated it was a potential fracture point. I doubt it, but we saw what happened when Whistlin Diesel sheared the bumper off of one of these. That aluminum is quite brittle.
MUNRO carl - the Cybertruck truck seats are Higher , because they are on very ROBUST cast rails, unlike Tesla car seats. they are also Directly mounted to the Structural battery pack, as in the former model Y. MY is also on CAST rails , but not as tall.
I wonder if they’re utilizing scrap from the larger castings to produce the front seat risers; it is definitely still heavy, but might not necessarily be greater cost.
Great video, I wish you guys posted on Rumble though so I don't have to come to RU-vid to watch. It's unfortunate that either as much innovation as this truck has, they didn't fix the seat head rest issues you guys mentioned a long time ago.
I have a suspicion (I'm no expert, but I'm making a hypothesis) the headrests are common design with other car companies for whiplash lessening technology. That said, Tesla could (and likely should) redesign a common seat structure among all their cars that incorporates the whiplash feature.
thanks for the criticism on folding rear seats. Its function is very limited but expensive in execution. If I were Tesla, I want the rear seats to be easily removable than folding. It is unlikely that the truck will be filled in the bed and rear seat with cargo at the same time. An empty rear seat area is nice for precious cargo like electronics/appliances and stow away the seat in the bed.
I hope the next iteration will let the seats and mid console drop down to the floor so you can roll out a big mattress and take advantage of camp mode. The truck bed is for cargo.
On the Model Y rear seats, it is a real pain to install the rear the belt with buckle of a child’s car seat is difficult to pass between posts of the rear headrest with a single adjustment adjustment. Now, with Cybertruck with a non-adjustable headrest seems impossible. BAD TESLA BAD…
These design decisions are even contradicting each other: If you're making a one-off car, or a low volume run, then overbuilding could make sense (i.e. do less optimisation), jerry rigging a fixed headrest onto a moving headrest frame could make sense; but then they make an injection mould where it's not needed (which would only pay off in high volume production runs). As if the engineers asked their boss: hey, do you want more of a one-off car, or a mass-production ready car? Boss' answer: "Yes". 🤦♂🤦♀
Before I begin to watch this analysis, my feedback is that CT seats are uncomfortable. They don't have the hip curve and flatness of the seat makes it hurt over long sitting. While the model Y seats are so cozy, I didn't like CT seats. Also the headrest pushed my head in an awkward angle, but that is totally height dependent. Now watching...
If a seat fit your perfectly chances are there are just as many people who hate it. I have a wide back. Very few bucket seats are comfortable. Prefer a bench or better yet split bench. Seats in the mind 90s town cars a great.
I think Tesla thinks that adjustable headrest does not make sense for its main function for rear collisions, which I quite agree. However, I noticed that an adjustable headrest allows more air flow/movement around my neck. I think I like that as main feature of an adjustable head rest vs fixed
Thanks to Carl for another informative and honest assessment. He always does a great job. I fear that the comments will get ugly from the Tesla fanboys though. 😢
When I saw the 10mm steel I had to do a double take. It looks a bit like a temporary solution, kind of like the 3d printed parts they had on the HVAC housing in the 2020 model Y. Maybe it was supposed to be stampings but maybe something went awry with the tooling or something, and while they fix it they ship this as a temporary fix instead. But who knows, I haven't seen the FEA 🤷♂️
@@markplott4820 thank you very much for the information, and I have searched her webpage, and it seems that everything is vegan, without the option of real leather?
Great video. I bet this was the first iteration and CT coming out of production now (or in a few months) will resolve many of these issues (maybe because of this video 🙏). Elon (and some members of the CT team) have said they’re already hard at work at cost reduction. I’m sure your inputs would be reviewed in detail… can’t wait for a similar video a year from now… maybe your name will be mentioned in an Easter egg (like sandy in one of the electronic boards) 🥳
I was really hoping to hear that the CT seats were an inch wider. My one complaint about my Model Y is that the seats are too narrow. For contractors like myself, we usually prefer larger seats in larger vehicles.
Cost will be comparable at higher volume, you avoid tolerances stack up with one part. I assume they were using this part to test something or wanted to use another material, when they designed it. Maybe magnesium? I would really like to know if the cast parts are much easier to install and if they make the sliders much easier / smoother to operate.
If there rear seat back is immovable, could they have simply made the whole back with one piece of molded foam. Maybe there would have to be some embedded plastic bits for also and structure. What is the purpose of all the metalwork?
I am curious if the seats in updated Model 3 had addressed the points you made in the past. From the the general look, they appear quite different to the older ones.
MUNRO - what's NOT to like ? Tesla has eliminated mounting brackets, onto more brackets. Tesla also reduced total PARTS count, wields, joining, and Fastener count. you should be LOVING it.
Would be interesting if Tesla had their lead engineer gove their feedback. Tesla might be trying to do things differently, but if older methods are better, do it the old way.
Thanks, Carl. This was great. Tesla sacrificed a lot to get this to market. It's probably the worst product they've made and a step backward for the company. I was worried from the original announcement that it would put the company at risk and that worry was probably justified. Sometimes you need to tell the boss when they're doing something stupid. I am not a cybertruck "hater". I just think it could meet neither Elon's promises nor his original deadline and what we wound up with is a super-compromised design that may have done irreparable harm to the company. He promised 450 miles of range and bullet proof windows; it won't go half that far with normal automotive windows. I want Tesla to succeed, but CT worries me that they've passed peak innovation and are now just following Elon's visions without listening to reason or their customers. That worked for Models S and 3 as he was inventing new markets, but it won't always work. If there's one thing people should have learned from Elon's white paper on Hyperloop it's that he's NOT always right and is often downright foolish. I encourage people to read that white paper as it seems to sum up Elon's thought process rather well; grand ideas with huge lapses in judgement and with no engineering homework done, though I do admit that white papers often leave out the details. Hyperloop was an insanely impractical idea and fans should remember that when praising Elon for his many successes. Has he changed the world forever? Absolutely. Is he the world's top genius? No, and he's not even in the top ten thousand.
I’ve been very pleased with the fit of my seats. They’re comfortable but feel sporty, and the angles match the truck design. But, the leather is already delaminating from the padding one month in…
After spending 4 hours riding in the front passenger seat of one, I will say that comfort-wise, they remind me of late-90s Toyota seats. Firm and initially comfortable, with very little overall support. Definitely missed the mark on comfort for a $100k+ vehicle. And yes, at 6100 miles, the driver seat in this vehicle was creaking during acceleration and turns.
Do the overkill designs add to safety in any way? You also mentioned that some designs make sense if they are making it for other models. Speculation on the van and other products could be incorporating this design. Also, could the back seats be implemented in a smaller vehicles? Say the size factor of a M3 or smaller?
I could tell there must be extra weight in Cybertruck when I saw the specs compared to other trucks with bigger batteries. I hope Tesla finds some good improvements over the next year or so. I'm waiting to buy one until the price comes down. It would be great if they made a better-looking Cybertruck2, but they would wait until last minute (2028) to announce, if it ever happens. Where's a Model Y-size truck? Ford Maverick is looking appealing. Especially now you can get a 4k tow package for the hybrid. That would let me tow a decent camper or a 1.5 ton piece of equipment.
