Corrin: swordie with a combo game, goes even with the majority of the cast, auto-spacing bair, fair's -4 but combos and can set up for kills at percents less than 80, invincibile recovery. Proguides: D tier, take it or leave it
As a Zelda main who has mained her since brawl and has a big win streak, I’d say she is B tier at highest and C tier at lowest. She is amazing when you master spacing her F tilt and knight. And she has top tier zoning and edge guarding. I’ll admit that her disadvantage is almost impossible to get out of, but she still has amazing traits.
@@quinnthomas426 If you’re tactical and good at spacing, Zelda can be amazing with great potential. If they gave her her old D tilt and a good nair, she could be one of the better characters in the game.
These people should check out corrins online win rate percentages. Sure, Corrin isn't being played at tournaments but online results show the character is damn well solid. People just don't play the character that much so they're underrated
@@InfinityFantasy I mean, all characters have their worst options, ridleys just use nair instead and it works great. I wouldn't put ridley below any of these characters but the more they put him in lower tiers the higher chance I have of getting a much needed weight buff for ma big scali boi
Corrin is scary on Battlefield, where her Up-Air guarantees a bad time. Even on Omega stages, she feels higher than D-tier. Can sometimes struggle to turn damage into kills, but her aerials are all really good.
Ehh, at tier lists show characters from a top level perspective, corrin has plenty of flaws that I would say make her D tier. Shes slow, has a predictable recovery, her combos can easily be di'd out of, not to many kill confirms, her projectile sucks for camping and zoning, and she has super slow air speed. She has alot of good things too, but shes too easy to exploit
I was with you until B tier, where I thought some characters were missing. C tier was a mess and D tier is...eh. That's all I'm really going to say, since I don't really want to write a long essay stating why you should put X character into a higher tier or Y character into a lower tier.
Doctor mario actually makes a lot of sense, Spending years getting his PHD he hasn't been doing any active plumbing/adventuring, so he moves slower but has also learnt all about the vital organs so hits harder and more efficiently.
Well she dies around 115 - 125 actually and has little kill power. So I'm not surprise they put her that low. She has her stuff...but its not a reliable character to win
as long as the vid that went something along the lines of "top 10 fighters that are op and 10 that are trash" by thegamer exists, nothing will be the worst tier list ever, where they straight-up said that tiers are more important than effort
As a corrin main, i've neve seen something so accurate, look y'all can defend corrin all u want but truth is: 1. she has no ground game - fastest option is frame 5 which basically negates the fact that fair is -4. fair being - 4 imo doesn't matter since your too slow to retreat anyways and your fastest option is frame 5 meaning moves like bowser up b, zss up b, and a LOT of aerials out of shield, you can argue that she can just shield but she doesn't have a shield option faster than frame 9(besides up air) and that frame 9 button, which is nair, is minus on hit at early %s. Some will say, but dude u haz ftilt, then i respond with, bruh everyone has an ftilt that can do the same thing. This is one of the reasons why pin kick and dash attack are used often. Approaching with a jump as corrin is waayyyyy to committal. and when you do approach with them, it's not gonna be a surprise when they just use an upsmash or fsmash. You can use the side platforms in some stages like yoshi's, kalos,(specific points at bf) and t&c to approach with pin kicks that won't leave u on the ground allowing you to either nair or wave bounce fangshot but this is very stage specific. Her advantage state on the ground isn't even that good. I have been experimenting with footstool combos with corrin to set up for early kills with a down smash, a read with fang shot or smtng like that and i will say something, when u get a jab lock it's either u go for a hard read with these characters or u jap lock f-tilt which can lead into a back air but eh still not good. 2. She has NO mid% combo game What she gonna fair fair upair and deal like 20? looks here's the thing about corrin mid% combos, not all of them are actually true except for landing nair into air, fair doesn't really true combo into anything besides the prior mentioned footstool set up(this is around 40-60btw, after this % it doesn't work). D-tilt doesn't true combo into anything at this %. her only way to consistently rack damage at this % is to win neutral with her average start up frame data and slow movement from around 35% to 110%. you just have to out play no way of escaping 3. Corrin just can't kill Look no offence to anyone but if u die to a raw bair then u just got outplayed(excluding online cause online is online). Corrin's bair is frame 13 and only really kills at the ledge. Only way to combo into it is just landing WEAK nair which is easily contested by any hitbox and easy to react to offline(to some extent. So in short if u want the early kills, good luck cause you either have to hit a landing weak nair at the ledge in order to kill with bair. You can use the other moves ofc! like fangshot which you need to get hard read with if you don't wanna die to a fully charge fsmash or corrin's own TIPPER fsmash cause sour spot doesn't klll at center stage till 100 iirc, so that means you have to space with the fsmash while leaving yourself open to 12 frames of start up(which isn't bad) and 28 frames of endlag or being -26 on shield. only way corrin can actually consistently kill is at around 125+% when her up air(which i'll agree is broken) starts to kill. If the corrin can't get said up air she has to rely on pinkick which kills at around 125% on average without rage and this is assuming that it isn't staled. prior mentioned early kill moves are also possible but corrin fsmash is not consistent and bair(while it does auto space) is frame 13. starting 165% you can start fishing for upthrows but that's not the point. The point is corrin can't really kill consistently without putting herself at a disadvantage. You can say tipper pin cause it's frame 4 or smtng but like if u land that in neutral why ain't u in the pgr Common counter arguments: Chainsaw broken: It won't poke through a full shiel but if u still complaining you can jump out of shield and sdi up and away then follow up with a jump or an airdodge jump so avoid the fsmash and punish the corrin. After 2-3 hits (depending on how big you are) you should be fine since it won't rue combo into fsmash her advantage state is also broken: I do agree but characters with faster air speeds like palu and wolf can retreat to ledge since corrin is way too slow and her ledge game isn't that good. Shield after doing -4 moves: keep shielding and let's see how your opponent reacts Common arguments that agree with me that i don't really agree with: Corrin recovery suck: it's bad but not really, up b has i frames and is a multihit while being able to contest some moves due to big hit box. Bair pushes her forward, pin the stage mixups and fair is just good so there's that too Corrin has no off stage presence: To some extent yes but in specific situations, not really. this is because corrin nair is actually decent in offstage edge guarding and may lead to a position where you can get an early kill with bair. pinning the stages is also good espes for character with recoveries that have no hitboxes. In recoveries like palu's you can pinkick towards the stage in order to get a lingering 2 frame or a ledge trump and back pinkick can also be an option if they have an obv habit. said pin kick towards stage can be teched but you are still in an good position even if they do. fang shot is stupid since ball hit box is huge and gives corrin time to go back to stage while sending at a bad angle. run off wave bounce neutral b into fair can cover a lot of options espes at high %s. Full hop dair even if going off stage is an amazing tool and if timed correctly something you can survive. and lastly dair 2 frames are actually dumb since the timing is much easier than pin 2frames and lingers for a little longer while spiking some multihit recoveries that don't go to ledge like bayo up b and sending some chars at dumb angles. If you have any questions or argument regarding this just reply tbh, i'll try to respond
@@namelastnamefirst4520 Top of d-tier if we being very pessimistic. Corrin has really hard matchups against very common characters like joker plau wolf and some other kinda common chars like zss pac and pika. overall depends on how you value top tier mus, if we talkin about a no top tier tourney tho or a game with none of these chars maybe a or b tier. so tldr, if u value top tier MUs then sure d-tier, if not i can see C
ok time for my rant on this Roy's fastest ground move is frame 5 and he is considered one of the best characters on the ground. Having a frame 5 ground move isn't that bad lol. Also having a -4 long ranged aerial is insane buddy, if spaced grabs are basically impossible to land and no move can punish it. isn't committal when corrin has insane range. Corrin has good mid% combos with idj, I suggest watching the idj introduction video. Umm frame 13 isn't that fast but Corrin bair is unpunishible and has a huge hitbox. D tilt combos into it and so does landing nair, and both are safe on shield if spaced well. Up air is insane and Corning can easily kill vertically in advantage. idk how this comment even got 2 likes
@@Simon-hs7ik ok first things first roy is fast and is able to dash back and forth to make moves safer down tilt, short hop nair in order to ad pressure in grounded range. you can't really compare the 2 since game plan very different and the reason why roy game play really good is because of really good movment, corrin's grounded moves are VERY unsafe unlike roy grounded moves. you mix this up with her lack of speed and not being able to approach with short hop aerials due to being a floaty then you get a character that just has an non-existent ground game. tldr roy's ground game is good because it has an insane amount of pressure + his good base airspeed while having safer moves and generally gets more reward corrn's is different because corrin is slow and all frame 5 moves are unsafe on shield next mid % combos, I don't give a shit abt idj combos since they just add like 5%. even with idj you just gonna get like 15% off of winning in neutral with a slow character. about the -4 move i'm not saying that it's bad, i'm saying that corrin does not have options after hitting it on shield which basically negates the fact that it's -4. lastly down-tilt bair is not true, down tilt up air isn't even true at 80% (or smtng i can't test it rn) up air kills later than most people think since it kills consistently at 130% unstaled(and around 145 staled) and the nair that leads into bair must be a Weak nair at the ledge. in shot you have to get it out of ledge trapping and a lot of chars like fox joker sephi etc have a lot of tools to get out of said ledge game. since corrin's low speed makes it hard to punish burst movement options from ledge and spamming nair as corrin on ledge isn't really the best ledge trap. i did mention this the essay ut barely elaborated that part. sorr to cause confusion
also about the bair same thing with fair on shield, the problem isn't how bad it is, it's more of she doesn't have any options to do after it. i noted taht it was frame 13 to say it was slow and not as spamable as it is online
Because Doc is apparently so much better than we think, here’s all the characters Doc is better than : (E Tier) Kirby Jigglypuff Ice Climbers Zelda Ganondorf King Dedede Lucario Bayonetta Ridley King K. Rool Isabelle Incineroar Piranha Plant Mii Swordfighter He’s not better than these characters, he should be in the same tier as them. Some of these characters should be in D Tier or even higher! Zelda, really?
"Dr. Mario... His neutral is nothing to scoff at..." LMAO, what neutral? He has some of the worst mobility and burst options, his attacks are short-ranged, and while pills can sometimes help, most characters can easily get around them/invalid their usage. Despite his great frame data, he can have a really hard time landing hits, and worst-case scenario the opponent can even effortlessly camp him, which isn't much of a risk since Doc is too slow to catch them or regain stage control. So yeah, his neutral is something to scoff at.
Ok. i know you're gonna put Kirby in f tier because "he floaty and slow" Jejajeja has beaten Sparg0 before. even though he was already viable. Remember kids to actually look at good character players before playing, and always update your games to the right version
@@brandonmorehouse7507 yeah he is, copy abilities allow him to snag some more combo potential and kill setups, most of his aerials are quick and have a low amount of end lag (accept for down air)
Are you seriously putting Zelda in E? Sorry but, in my opinion, there is no way she is that low. Zelda is slow and suffers from range issues outside of Down B, I agree. Does she struggle against reflector and suffers from very few high level representation compared to her very large low level representation? Yeah, totally, but don’t tell me a character with: part of the best out of shield options in the game (Up B, NAir, FAir and BAir), a Down be that can shield her against projectiles thanks to the Displaced Phantom technique, ability to cover both low and medium recovery at the same time, very good recovery, amazing Up Air and a Neutral B with invincibility frames that can be used as a reflector, get off me tool and edgeguard is close to E tier. Also, Zelda has this quirky particularity to destroy people with bad matchup experience. She does require a lot of precision to play effectively, but that doesn’t justify her as bottom tier. Upper mid tier in my opinion, maybe B tier, but absolutely not E tier.
Also, isn't Zelda's F-Tilt pretty deadly now? On a side note, are all competitive Zeldas doing Displaced Phantom now? I heard it's a pretty tough tech to pull off consistantly. However, being able to safely Phantom in neutral would be huge.
@@Jackaljkljkl It has a 2 frames window, so not many Zelda players use it. The only one I know who managed was Raykushi, but he switched to Pyra and Mythra.
Maybe you should try playing Zelda to see how her hitboxes do NOT stay out for as long as they should dispite their animation (Neutral b, up air, side b, SWEET SPOT OF FAIR AND BAIR which if you miss the tiny hit box that's only out for one frame you will get comboed and at worse dead.) The Sour Spot of Back air and fair only leaves her in disadvantage as it doesn't send the opponent anywhere at ALL. Even if you managed to hit sweet fair/bair at low percentages it won't send them far enough and she will get hit because her fair and bair has massive end lag (cool down) that doesn't need to be there at all. Her down air is so slow to come out that you can't short hop with it and so much end lag that she can't efficiently go off stage against very low recoveries. Her ledge trapping is as predictable as her mobility on air and on ground doesn't help also her forward tilt which is slow and her up Smash takes awhile to come out, doesn't even hit 98% of the time if they are on platform(and if it does they can just not get knocked back by it because they can't make moves), and up smash has fall outs even without platforms same with nair even after they "fixed multi hits of nair". Look up #FixZelda on Twitter or play her long enough and you can witness how she doesn't work properly. Even if you did hit upsmash it doesn't do enough damage to compensate the risk to even go for it let alone the end lag is horrendous. The development team thought that her teleport going to platforms more was a good idea even though the opponent can be standing underneath that you are aiming to hit but no go to platform and back into disadvantage instantly (even if opponent are across stage(nearly anybody faster than her mobility) due to the massive end lag( cool down) which feels far worse than Sephiroth's. Also teleports do not work properly like the did in previous games which at certain angles can lead Zelda to die at any percentage like 0% because she can be sent way too far to be able to drift back. Which also affects her ability to get out of disadvantage massively. Also her side b you can hit that to not be damaged (seen in latest version maybe others before). Basically Zelda doesn't get: 1. combos because of low hit stun and lots of end lag, 2. weight, 3.hit boxes that cover her full body to match the animation of what it looks like (small slimers make a difference just look at shield pokes) 4.enough invincibility frames at the beginning of her up b which is why she can't get out of disadvantage like a heavy. She literally feels like a heavy without the weight or power. She doesn't have the speed in air or ground to do tech chases like Fox, doesn't have anything if the opponent knows how to bet her.... She is like only a noob killer and that's it.... sometimes not even that because there are characters who have easy gimmicks like Sonic running away. How does a Zelda chase down a Sonic? .... She doesn't. She can't even chase other characters that have less speed than Sonic like Lucina. All they have to do is take a stock and run. You can't play on big maps because of that. You can't play with items because speed and disadvantage hold her back. You can't play competitively because of all the things I mentioned above. So who is Zelda for? The select screen??
They keep disrespecting Donkey Kong. Plus I could name a bunch more top DK players that they didn't mention. Chunkykong, DK Will, Runes, KDK, iDK, Proctavia.... The list goes on. Also DK has been doing better in tournaments over the past year. It just sucks that there's a culture of discouraging people from investing time in characters that are considered mid-tier or lower. This is why I retired from competitive smash 11 years ago
This tier list is ridiculous your putting corrin in D tier when they should be in B tier and your putting Zelda in the last tier when she should be in C tier this is some bull. Wow this tier list is made to piss people off im flabbergasted at the audacity of it all. 👏🏾👏🏾👏🏾👏🏾👏🏾👏🏾👏🏾
honestly. King k. rool should be in D tier and not F tier. Most of his moves have belly armor ( and that's pretty much is trump card. ) He hits hard as crap. has a recovery almost like piranha plants and can edge guard hard as crap.
I think it's important to remember that tier lists for this game shouldnt be taken too seriously because of how well balanced the game is. Playing a high or top tier is not a guarantee for success, and playing a lower tier not a guarantee for doom. In the hands of good players characters on the lower end of the tier list are still a threat (as we can see with Leo's Byleth and Marth, Jejajeja's Kirby or Hungrybox's Puff.) I dont feel too much juice around who proguides chose for the D tier because I dont think it matters as much as it does in say, Melee or Brawl
I hate loosing to really good DK's and Belmonts. My Samus can't just outlast them but needs to fully exploit their disadvantage and correctly catch them offstage. There was at least one time I landed Samus's bomb to dair spike on a Belmont just at the ledge. That was satisfying but lucky.
It is hard to rank the worst characters in this game. Every character has potential. I think Corrin does not deserve to be this low. Bowser Jr., while I feel they are very strong, does not have the most convincing results. I think Donkey Kong's best main is being rated unfairly as there is also Chunky Kong/RJ but you only talk about DKWill, Hikaru and whoever that other person is. Remember that online tournaments can have much higher attendance than offline and Chunky Kong/RJ has been an online player mostly. I have heard of great Doctor Mario players but never really paid attention to any particular players and can see them being ranked close to bottom. There is another Belmont player worth mentioning but I totally forgot their name. Another player who may have showed up in the online tourneys foremost.
Ridley low tier my ass Corrin low tier my ass Incineroar low tier debatable Dk low tier my ass Bj low tier my ass Apparently I thought they mention ridley and Incineroar low tier I'm unsubscribing the moment I see ridley and Incineroar e tier
Hmm, slow air, walk and fall speed, poor range, bad approach, very light, slow specials outside of Inhale... yeah doesn't sound like even C tier, D tier at best, if that.
@@09JDCTrainMan he can deal insane damage out of combos and strings from most of his moves like grab and nair, he has one of the best ground game/neutrals among the cast, he has really good low profiling. he has to be somewhere in mid tier.
Incineroar F tier?!!!! NO!!!! I may be a little bias cause I main him, but he is at least a mid tier. And how could you put dr Mario d and Incineroar f? Doesn’t make sense. Also, I’m trash with corrin but i at least know she isn’t d tier.
I disagree with your pinion on Incine. He is very slow and has a trash recovery. His overall very poor disadvantage state and lack of a projectile also harm him. Now his power is obviously impressive. But overall, he's basically Ganon if you take away the decent frame data and Revenge. He's just not good enough.
@@magster3997 I mean. I get that. They definitely do sounded uninformed. But is something as subjective as a tier list worth getting heated about? Its not like these lists should influence your own opinion. Seeing as you all are getting mad about what is being said.
