Thanks for watching and let me know if you have any useful information related to the topics in this video. Amazon Affiliate Links to recommended tools used in the video: Milwaukee 3/4" Impact Wrench: amzn.to/3KZpVoc
@Adept Ape I have a 320kva genset with a 3406B with 10,000 hours on it, and under moderate load it would usually go through 8 ish litres of oil every 100 hours running 24 hours a day, but in the recent week it started going through roughly 25 L of oil every 20 hours with less of a load 14 hours a day with no smoke from exhuast, no leaks or puddles of oil, I removed the charge pipe from turbo to intake, just ya typical oil residue nothing wierd, and removed the exhaust side off the turbo with only typical soot build up. ran it without the cap on the oil filler neck which goes straight to the crank case and I can't feel any pressure what so ever on my hand when put my hand on the filler neck.... Any ideas? I'm confused as to where the oil is going. Cheers
worked on a 3406 years ago using 5 ltrs of oil in a 12 hour shift. Eventually found it was a leaking seal in the hydraulic pump sucking the oil out of the sump.
Actually there are two plugs on the back of the c15 head. One is oil pressure and one is fuel pressure l. I had to go on a service call because a Pete ran out of fuel and couldn’t get it to prime. Wouldn’t prime because the fuel port on the back of the head was plugged. Fuel return line was in the oil pressure port. Luckily it never put oil in the fuel because the oil pressure was lower then the fuel pressure regulator setting
I always carry a piece of plywood on my truck about 2 feet by 3 feet to put on the tracks when working on dozers. You're correct in saying that the tracks are hard to work off of. The plywood helps. Nothing easy about working on dozers.
Actually yes the belly pans are a pain in the backside. However they are there for a reason. There was a D11 working on a garbage dump expansion and it was running without the belly pans and a big stump flipped up under the machine and the stump somehow cleaned the oil pan off the engine. That would have been an expensive day.
Very different engines and I'm just an operator, but in locomotives we see excessive idling leading to smoking and oil consumption all the time. Recently had a SD70 (4,300 HP turbo EMD 16-710 engine) that was making lots of blue smoke and throwing oil. The mechanic's fix was to put it on the load box and run it in full throttle for an hour or two. This was made easier by the fact that each locomotive essentially has its own built-in load box (the dynamic braking grid) and you can put them in 'self-load' just by pushing a few buttons.
Yeah the old EMD 2 strokes don't love idling or low load conditions. We have 3x 20-645s at work hooked to generators for the grid and whenever they're used for load pick ups we have to run them at full load (2.5 Mw) for at least 20 minutes after to reduce carbon build up in the engine. For regular peaking power they're supposed to be run at full load only. Even then when they get the air box opened for maintenance every year there are literally chunks of carbon that coat the inside. Nothing beats the sound of a screaming EMD though! 2 Stroke Power!!!
I completely understood everything Mr Smith said. Totally. Cause who doesn’t know what a built in load box is, I certainly do, so do all my friends and family ;)
I had no idea extended idle operation on a diesel 3406 would create a vacuum. Always informative and educational thank you. PS I’m not embarrassed to say I stuff a lot of rags in tight areas that I may be prone to drop items into
Some of these problems can really make a guy scratch his head. Was this Dozer showing smoke from the oil it was burning or no? I had a 3306 once in a Gas compressor that was using so much coolant you could see the level dropping. But when you would go looking inside there was zero signs of a coolant leak. It was baffling to say the least. Eventually we had to take a educated guess and replaced the exhaust manifold at a cool 7 Grand. (A liquid cooled manifold). Turns out it was cracked and causing our issue. So we got lucky on our guess. Lol.
I recently had an injector oring go bad on a c15, the middle one. Was turning my return line fuel black. Looked almost like oil. Since I just did my head I was a little stumped thought that head cracked. I did a lot of research and found it is very uncommon and that only one person, supposedly, had experienced said issue. I was just astonished how fast the fuel turned black only from one oring. Changed oring primed all good now. Maybe he has a couple orings leaking? If its not orings on the injector I would make the guess that the head is cracked since there is no other place the oil comes in contact with fuel.
My suggestion for working on tracks Josh is talk to your shipping and receiving department. I work for a Komatsu dealer and when we get large windows in they usually protect them with large pieces of foam. About 2’x3’ and 4” thick. They make great knee pads and laying pads for working on uncomfortable places. Not sure if CAT ships anything like that, but if they do a quick chat with the warehouse guy will get you fixed up.
@@jamestaylor1078 I bought a knock off 9amp.. it's a piece of f@#$..can't put a big load on it..but ..but I use when it decides it wants to work 🤣🤣..I've had Milwaukee brand 12 amp that the case completely fell apart....it's all junk I guess
Have you checked the turbo for any oil buildup in the exhaust? I've seen many 3400 turbos leak from the shaft into the exhaust from a lot of quick load increase/decrease scenarios, where the load will increase and decrease rapidly
Everyone says that it's an old wives tale but I've had several 3406B's that I'd change the oil and put them right on full and in less than a day would be just right above add so I'd top it off every day but decided to see if it'd go below add and it never did, it'd just drink the oil to a certain level and stop using it until around 10,000-12,000 miles and start using it right at the time it was time to change it. My buddy had a 3406B that done the same thing but would go way below add but come to find out it had the wrong dip stick.
On the oil in the fuel. I've had a transfer pump do that. And on the oil consumption, it's probably a reman head, I'm willing to bet that the tolerance on the valve stems are at the maximum.
Josh: About 10 years or so we ran into a similar situation with "black fuel" on a C15. Ended up using Fleetguard Asphaltene treatment - if this is truly fuel, not engine oil, very rare condition up in the Northeast but we have seen it. Not the same deal as black fuel on a C7. Do not really find this conditioner on Fleetguard site, only MSDS form.
Hey Josh thanks for another great video! Being you work at a Cat dealer I’m curious to know why you don’t work on more engines on the equipment side of things? Is there another tech at your location that works primarily on engines in the equipment or is it mostly field service work on equipment engines? Thanks!
@@MitzvosGolem1 the implication that all Chinese products are junk is incorrect, Chinese manufacturing has the same capabilities that US manufacturing does. Problem is if you want top shelf you pay top shelf prices no matter the origin country and most companies who outsource are not looking for quality which gives the bad reputation.
There are two different oil seals for valve stems, one is a plastic one that is held by the upper spring retainer the other the one that goes on the guide! The style of valve guide you are showing was designed for the seal being on it! Do not have sis anymore so can not look this up for you! Yes need to check valve guide for your arrangement, to be sure! Use to rebuild lots of cylinder heads back in the day, before exchange took that any for most dealers! The tool for seal install 9U-7226 Installer Gr Model: 3406E Engine
I was thinking excessive stem clearance or light load running / idling as well. Have you thought about someone using the wrong dipstick when it was re manufactured and over filling it? That happens more often than you think on these and is actually part of the cat diagnostic procedure for excessive consumption Another cause is the second ring upside down but since you have wet inlet heads and no turbo leak, im betting bad guides.
Can you explain further? Why would equipment have a wear problem from seals where cars/semi go hundrds of thousands and millions of miles without issue?
C-15 dumping oil out the fuel return... Never seen it on a Cat but what I have seen is failed injector and/or injector seals cause this on Navistar engines. If I'm not mistaken there is a lot of similarities in the HEUI design between the Cat and Navistar... Maybe something to look at before going to the hassle of removing the cylinder head?
Should have checked blow by in engine before shutting it down, by opening oil fill! I've seen 3408 and 3412 engine have alot of blow by and using oil badly! Actually seen them push dipstick up off of tube! I would think this blow by push oil down valve stems, excess carbon in cylinder burning oil!
Cut up stall mats help a lot on tracks, particularly with shorter grousers. Also on treadplate, like kneeling on an excavator platform to work on the engine. A foam kneeling pad goes a loooong way too.
As somebody who is not a diesel mechanic or expert, but who has seen many diesel runaway videos. I'm curious what condition the turbo is in? And if that's why it's consuming oil and why intake valves looked wet.
He mentioned when he began working that the turbo and other minor probable causes had been checked and ruled out by field techs. At the 1:15 mark in the video.
Excessive low idling with dirty filters. Low idling is really hard on diesels. It causes fuel to condense on the cylinder walls because the cylinder is not hot enough to vaporize the fuel. This allows fuel to build up in the ring grooves of the piston and when it burns it produces carbon in the rings and detonation. The vacuum that is drawing oil into the valve guide is from dirty filters, that's the only restriction in the intake that can produce vacuum. Clean the filters and keep your idle above 1300rpm, better yet, don't idle.
I work in a machine shop and occasionally big diesel heads come in. Not all of them have valve seals just guides, but I never find any real wear or anything on them. One thing you could check is if there is a chance the valve seats have a leak behind them which can let oil in. Usually this would suck in coolant (happens on old V8 iron heads), but it may be able to suck in oil if that is the case. Not likely but it's something you could check out. Cracks can show up in odd places too that could let oil get to the intake side.
But every cylinders seems to be the same I guess it would be unlikely that every valve leak in the same way? Could it be out of tolerance valves or valve guides?
Idleing and not having clean oil. I would go to. Straight. Mobil 30 weight and put valve seals on the valve stems anyway. And stop all that low. Rpm work and idleing and. I know for a. Fact. Pushing a. Big. Load in. High. Gear. Stop. Lugging engine and. Push in. First gear. Not second or third to. Do it. Quick. A. Dozer is. Designed to. Work in. First. Gear. Period. So basically it is a. Operators. Fault for. Lugging the. Engine I been around. Dozers all my. Life and I am 60 I know a little
Not so old….. it’s not the years, it’s the hours! Lol. My guess from the people’s republic of Orygone…… ruling out blow by I’d she is sucking oil thru the valve guides …..OR did anybody check ye olde crankcase breather? Either way enjoy your snowy sun! Or was it sunny snow? Either way we appreciate your videos! Thank you!
Lol, my Honda brain is trying to figure out how long a 12 inch and a quarter long head bolt is. I grew up in Utah!!! I learned on imperial. But 7 years of using metric has me lost. So it’s slightly longer then a foot…how long is that again ;) jk.
Great video and I just love some of the informed comments on possible cause. This engine will be interesting to get to the bottom of. Thank you as ever Josh.
Hi all, I’m 21 and I’m currently working as a mechanic in an apprentice type role working on regular passenger cars, looking at possibly moving to a heavy duty type job in the future but I always hear about how it’s very hard on your body so I’m skeptical, is it really that bad? I hear the money is good and I think the machines are all really cool and I think it would cool to work on them but I don’t want to end up crippling myself. If anyone in the field has any insight I appreciate it greatly, thanks!
I I would assume excessive, idling. As someone who works on construction equipment on a daily basis. I have never met an operator that will shut the machine off before quitting time.
I laugh at your 12 inch head bolts and give you the Rover K series head bolts. The bolts are approx 412mm long with 72mm thread. If they were a little longer you could have used nuts on the bottom to hold the oil pan on 😂
When I used to work for a mobile mechanic company I use to have to crawl under dozers in the sand pits, one time we just finished on a John Deere 1050K and it wouldn’t crank after the new parts the joke was I had a caterpillar hat on
I don't get how Americans can add, subtract and divide using the imperial system of measurement. To me it just can't be as easy. Metric system is logical.
Air filter should have been changed. When the primary filter is passed its day it causes a negative pressure that pulls oil past the rings. Pre check and the oil level is down a gallon from yesterday then you swap out the primary and the problem goes away.
HUMM? No visible leaks ?🤔 Use a UV dye in the oil and check with a UV light source 🥸 oooops can't do that now. Turbo shaft worn or return coked up(burnt oil deposits) ? Seals ? Broken oil Rings ? crankcase pressure higher than atmospheric pressure (crankcase vent)? ADDING TO MUCH OIL ? Hard to say. Great video . Thanks
I would have assumed it was easier to get in there because of how tall that thing is but when you realize the engine is at the feet of the cab... yup its a real pain in the back.
First I always double check what another mechanic says or thinks the problem is. They may or may not have had the right test equipment available or on their truck to properly diagnose. Ive had to make an Educated guess many times myself and not always right. That looked like an old school 3406 with no ECM? Invest in a borescope instead of using the mirror. Mine was less than a hundred, has fifteen feet of cable with Camera, adjustable LEDs, rechargeable and WiFi's to my phone and tablet. Will pay for itself overtime if you ever have to find a bolt,socket or wrench working on equipment with covers or pans. I to noticed your battery jumping around pretty bad,you might try a big rubber band or two to help secure it to handle. Number one reason in the shop our guys have sent there' Milwaukee's in is for it not holding onto battery anymore especially when using the higher amperage ones. Belly pans are second only to tracks, as being dangerous when working on Dozers I think.
Great video as usual! Humourus and informative at the same time! Great strategy for educating adults. Your opening video of destruction of the week just kills me! I never get tired of seeing it,What is the background on this video Keep up the great work!
were oil consumption reports given to customer to fill out. this will help verify if there really is a complaint to follow up on before tearing engine apart
Hey Josh, we just had a Mack MP7 (I believe) that was leaking fuel out of the front cover of the engine. Turned out to be a plug on the fuel galley in the block, that was covered by said cover. Thankfully the fuel came out of the top of said cover and didn't go inside. I can only imagine the diagnostic headache that would have created.. Just figured I'd share this one with ya, and maybe it'll help someone who may be pulling out all their hair trying to solve a fuel in oil problem on an older Mack.
Josh, when you were instructed to remove the head, do you get briefed on what’s already been checked? Also, does Cat keep track of how the engine is worked, in terms of percent load and idle time? I worked on many brands of construction equipment as a field service tech and some OEM’s have advanced telematics that let you go online and view machine location, codes, percent of run time at light, medium, and full load, as well as idle time. Working on the entire machine makes it harder to be an expert on specific components like engines, but if the intake valves are wet and the crossover pipe is dry, doesn’t that rule out the turbo? Excess idle and light load working conditions cause many regen issues on Tier 4 engines. Maybe they can cause oil consumption issues on Tier 3 engines!?! We look forward to the follow up video.
3406B is a mechanical pump engine. It won’t have all of the sensors and other stuff for tracking what loads it’s ran and when. All it’d have is a basic hours meter.
I know you don't work on tracks much, but the next time you do throw down a sheet of plywood. It will save your knees and shins. I've lowered a few pans after already installing them to retreive tools. I actually lost my pocket screwdriver in a dozer once that came back about a month later for something else and got my screwdriver back. We've got one of our rental D8Ts that came in with low oil pressure. Found aftermarket bearings in rods and mains. Cam is all scuffed up as are the rollers. Aftermarket oil pump. When the head was pulled, several of the bolts were literally hand tight and a couple pulled the threads out of the block. All but one liner was dusted out. Exhaust manifold nuts were loose and the holes in the head were egg-shaped. At first we thought maybe a customer swung in their trash engine but the s/n on the block is correct. Real head scratcher.
Was the "destruction of the week" a clue? Is the oil getting pushed into another place? Dip the fuel tank or pull an fuel filter to see if it is black.
