DaC V5 - Gondor 2: Forlong's Fountain Guard 

Appreciate it mate, glad you are having fun. You'll have to start forging your own path soon, variance in campaigns should start kicking in pretty soon. Also, this strategy relies on you being very comfortable in fighting unfavoured battles against Isengard. It can get pretty hairy, as I said in part 1, The Mordor war if managed well to begin with is not the main event. The war with Isengard and managing the south, particularly if Khand sides with Mordor is the real tester.

@@epmtotalwar That's exactly how my campaign is going so far. Im into it Turn 25, and Isengard and Khand have been my main focus. Khand hasn't declared their allegiance yet so I'm still hopeful. Ered Luin refused Sauron, so I'm hoping Khand will follow. Also, thank you for the tip of giving traits to that one general with the Swan Knights to increase his bodyguard size... I've legit beat a full stack Mordor Pleb army with him ALONE. That 26 unit is a God-Send.

@@starcraft697 You should be able to get him higher than 26. Guard dog, mistress, gondorian longsword and the seal all increase personal security. There may be others as well. Might even get him up to 35.

Well, when it's fountain guard and I'm fighting in a tight settlement without towers I'd honestly rather have another 14 fountain guards than anything else.

Only way to play it is to go after Isengard early, they are a super serious late game threat, even early they are great. Helping my Rohan buddies also helps them to maybe fight off Mordor a bit if they head over the river. Ah, capture but leave empty, I can see that messing with the AI. Although, I probably want them to go there after I'm set for them.

@@epmtotalwar I wouldn't say it's the only way. I mean, you're playing as Gondor for crying out loud. The major good factions(Numenorians, Elves and Dwarves, less so the regular men factions) all have vastly superior army rosters to any evil faction(Isengard included) so as Gondor you really shouldn't fear a late game battle against any of the evil factions. Sure, Isengard does have some very good late game troops, guess what though? You have significantly better ones! Also Isengard, unlike Mordor, is surrounded by enemies(everyone but Dunland pretty much) so they will be fighting against other factions beyond just you. Now if Rohan, Lothlorien, etc, begin to crumble at the weight of Isengard and they begin to become monstrous than yes, they become a much bigger threat, however with you playing as Gondor that is pretty unlikely to happen(a relatively early total collapse that is) as a significant portion of their troops will forever be threatening you, being the player, so the other good AI factions should have an easier time holding their own, if not outright winning, against Isengard. That is to say, I think you're giving Isengard way too much credit, as in fearing them more than you should, which made you choose a less than optimal strategy, allowing Mordor to flourish while you were focusing on rushing down Isengard. Sure, Isengard is more of a late game threat than Mordor, however by not containing Mordor you're not only forcing yourself to deal with significantly more enemies(even if they're still mostly trash tier) and a war of attrition is not something you want against a full strength Mordor, especially when you have other enemies(Isengard, Harad, AA, Khand if they stick with Sauron, etc) that you will have to deal with sooner or later too. Moreover by not containing Mordor you're depriving yourself of several important cities, most notably East and West Osgiliath and the all the Ithilien region cities. Why are these so important? Because they allow you to recruit some of your best units. Your best archers come from both the Osgiliaths(Osgiliath Veterans) and the Ithilien region(Ithilien Rangers), Osgiliath is also your only source of a halberd unit in the Osgiliath Guards, which are an incredibly good unit and especially useful against Isengard's heavily armored forces. They are also pretty rich provinces, being located right on the river so you get some good naval trade from them as well. What I'm trying to say is that you actually gain a lot more from containing Mordor than by rushing Isengard, both in terms of economy as well as access to your region restricted units. On top of weakening your biggest foe, greatly limiting Mordor's recruitment capabilities and income generation(denying them of Minas Morgul, Moranon and everything else they've taken outside of Mordor proper). Finishing off Isengard takes a lot more effort than simply containing Mordor and the benefits you gain from it are minimal. It's simply a no brainer as long as you don't overestimate Isengard's strength of perhaps underestimate Gondor's.

Strange. I've also tested it in v4.6 though, haven't in v5 and the uruk hai won every time, quite the opposite result. I spread out the uruk hai a little wider than the wardens so they surrounded and used their superior numbers.

@@epmtotalwar I did not apply any modifications to the deployment of the units for fairness, since the AI doesn't change the width of the formation itself. Kept at default settings if you will. Simply walked my units towards my enemy, and timed the running and charging in sync with AI. And in all honesty, Wardens do have like 5 more defence stat and bit more attack, to where it makes up dramatically for the lack of unit size. uruks(154): att 9, chg 5, Defence 24: Armour 14, skill 6, shield 4 Wardens(128): 11, 6 Def 29, armour 16, skill 8, shield 5 These stats totally trump the opposing ones and the 30 less units is absolutely no issue. Wardens win every single time.

@@steelstudio7374 They may have been buffed in v5 or Uruks nerfed. Those aren't the numbers I remember, that gap in stats is sizeable.

Thanks 😀 The pain train is coming, hopefully I can deal with Isengard before it really kicks off in the south.

The green book doesn't correlate with the world regions mentioned in the Waystation which are Angmar, Arthedain, Cardolan, Enedwaith, Eregion, Harad, Gondor (East), Gondor (West), Lindon, Logathavuld, Mirkwood, Mordor, Rhovanion, Rhudaur, Rhun, Rohan, Vale. For example, if I look at Minas Tirith's green book it says 'The Pelennor Fields' which has the regions of 'Anorien' and Pelennor Fields' as regions in that area. Now, using common sense they would be in the world region of Gondor (East) but it doesn't specify that. Similarly the two Osgiliaths are listed as 'Osgiliath' with the regions of 'Forests of Ithilien' and 'Osgiliath'. Without looking at the code the green book doesn't specify what world region they are in, one is on either side of the Anduin. Is it Mordor or Gondor (East)? Minas Morgul is listed as 'Morgul Vale' with the one region listed also as 'Morgul Vale'. Since it once was Gondorian territory my concern was that maybe it would be included in Gondor (East) world region. Fortunately it isn't otherwise I wouldn't get free upkeep for Fountain guard in the same world region that I can recruit them. TLDR: Green book doesn't specify world regions.

Honestly, I don't know exactly what buildings have a chance of getting them. Denethor got mistress in Minas Tirith, Gondorian Longsword might be a tier 1 barracks but my guess is as good as yours. Some traits just have a base chance of appearing I think.

I have, where I am in campaign map obscures nothing, it's just the menu buttons. In battle it is the special ability which if I over over the description isnt covered and there is an audio que for when I press that. There is also the 'make enemies flash red' button which you can see when I press. Loose and tight formation which you can also see on the troops and I normally say something. The last things are guard mode and fire at will which to be fair would probably be nice to see since it isn't immediately obvious in the battle. I'm not switching between battle and campaign map, that's just tedious. If I move to the upper corner I'm actually blocking the battle which I deem as worse. I've reduced the size of the camera window in this campaign so all the unit cards can be seen which was a fair complaint but I think it is the best I can do.

I think there are a few factors. Often they are in loose formation which means a cav charge wont get as many models. Secondly, when units are near to other units that rout they are more likely to go themselves, archers are usually away from the main line. Thirdly, when archers get charged it is normally by one unit which means they are not getting hit in the back as infantry would when they are pinned against your infantry. Saying this, I find that uruk-hai archers are notoriously hard to rout more so than any other low tier archer and probably closer to the point, all Isengard units seem super hard to rout even though their moral stats would indicate they are very similar to other units that rout at the drop of a hat. I don't know if Isengard have some hidden moral buff, they are France in the base game, that doesn't give any obvious clues.

@epmtotalwar they might. They are supposed to be better than mordor and the goblins in that regard. More of a proper armored and armed uruk faction.

Khand cannot currently move in, they don't border the settlement. Even if they did that is fine, we just siege them like Mordor. I'm not sure what wars I shouldn't be in, Isengard is the only war I've started and they would have attacked me, I just got the jump on them, much better to be in control. This is the definition of a Gondor campaign, you have to defeat multiple strong enemies. I don't think a middlemen dilemma would fir with Gondor, they are proud numernorean blood.

@@epmtotalwar Tolkein stated that when Faramir set up the ithilien Rangers he pretty much drained Gondor of everyone with Numenorian blood. If you are hoping for Dol Amroth to defend your southern border against Harad and the Ardunaim, you are going to be disappointed. Ai Dol Amroth tends not to fare too well against them.

I'm not selling to EW, I can use it as bait.

@@epmtotalwar Isenguard might aim for the castle though.

@@epmtotalwar The reason why I suggest buying time is because you'll need time for the culture to convert in both settlements on the borders to free up your best units.

@@peterhe6699 Trust me, I have a plan.

@@epmtotalwar I hope it succeeds.

@gkuhn2589 Mate, this isn't reckless, not by a long shot. You don't need to always replenish or get armour upgrades or have all the required troops for a balanced army. You always say that I'm doing it wrong and yet it always works out.

Khand is fine to have that border, I'd rather them at that border than further south, it might take some pressure off Dol Amroth. I don't know what the obsession is with selling settlements. I want to keep Gynd, I can connect it up with Derwath and hold Isengard there. I do not trust the AI to hold a settlement, I just have to go back and retake lost ground.

@@epmtotalwar Fair enough :D

I wouldn't leave DA fighting alone, that compromises my southern border and I really doubt they could peace and give me money for it.

@@epmtotalwar they want peace. I have played as Gondor 3 times and was able to 3k for cease fire from all of them

@@Ratboii-vz8fl They still wouldn't peace with DA and they'd be left fighting alone. I still think this is ridiculous... I'll test it. Ok, just cheat moved my diplomat around and none want a ceasefire, let alone asking for money. It was demanding with AA and very demanding with Khand and Harad.

@@epmtotalwar I don’t know but they all wanted a ceasefire when I played as Gondor

@gkuhn2589 If I waited to move until I had all those structures it would be a very boring and ultimately much harder campaign. Waiting longer only gives the ai more strength.

@@epmtotalwar These military structure are needed to supply your army in the field against Isengard Your renforcement are at 2 turn of march to the army Tell me do you know the Augimund house rule of attack in Gondor ? he only use to attack the professional units i mean the silver armour units ( Gondor Infantery , Gondor spearman , Gondor Archers , Fountain gard , Citadel gard , Gondor cav and Warden of white tower ) Another thing Lamedon clansmen are armour percing and are usefull against Isengard army more than the militia

I'm working on it but wars have to be fought as well.