A more delicate subject than usual, but one that I've always found fascinating and worth bringing up. My blog: / gascon-en-exil Patreon: / gascon-en-exil
Primrose from Octopath is my favourite because of how they show she genuinely loved performing and how she willingly had that innocent joy corrupted for a greater good, but still managed to not let all the pain and abuse she suffered during that time taint the enjoyment of the art. Because I feel like it’s very hard for people to keep enjoying things they used to if it’s ruined by another.
I hadn’t thought about Nowi there, thanks for pointing that out. Of course, considering the type of character *she* is, the implications there are even worse than if IS had given that characterization to Olivia…
I’m always really drawn to dancer characters, someone like Primrose in Octopath Traveler having that intense revenge storyline and dealing with the exploitation that someone like Dorothea/Manuela/Yuri would… it makes you admire their perseverance and wit to survive in that position! I don’t know that much about the specifics of orientalist traits in the dancer’s outfits, and while I’m all for revealing clothes, I do think there could be more restraint and sensitivity involved if they’re going to continue to use the same types of aesthetics I also think it’s not as fun that Three Houses has custom dancers, but whatever it works for the game! I think the dancer being their own unique character is more fun
Cool video! I think the fact that there is two sides to Refreshing units in FE in terms of archetypes and connotation is itself fascinating because as you say there's the side that leans on the sex work/camp follower metaphor, but the other side which shows them as a sort of sacred role (I'm thinking of Ninian and the Herons mostly here. Fates too i guess but i haven't played it enough to really say) is also meaningful because it doesn't feel like it stops from being related to the previous side, so it ends up feeling like a sort of sacred prostitution role.
While I agree Seadall is technically more than just “food yum”, I can’t blame people for seeing him that way when so many of his supports (and so many of Engage’s in general) revolve around food. My guy even found a way to start talking about food after I picked him as my Engage husband. I laugh because if I don’t my face will be caught in a permanent cringe. A prime example of how badly Engage needed an editor to go through the supports asking, “Hey, have we *maybe* repeated ourselves too much with this one?”
I appreciate your respectful approach to the reality of sex work and how it's alluded to in FE, though I'm a bit disappointed that the blatant and foundational orientalism that dancers' designs and backstories are based on was merely a passing "vaguely orientalist" comment near the end. East Asian media in general has a huge problem with Arab orientalism and the "harem" trope to which Fire Emblem is just a drop in the bucket, so I also understand why it's not a topic you chose to delve into here. Otherwise this was a great video that handles the implications in dancers appropriately and with sensitivity. Looking forward to hearing more from you!
Dancers are my favorite class in Fire Emblem and even as a kid reading Ninian and Nils’ dialogue I felt..bad somehow but to that end I’ve always just seen dancers as simple cheerleaders. Especially in the kaga games where dancers are performers to put it lightly, that kind of thing is common in fantasy settings so I’m used to seeing it but it’s still uncomfortable to read Lara and Pahns conversations
Talking about that, it reminded me of a game that doesn`t imply anything, but is straight in your face about such things. Darkest Dungeon. Darkest Dungeon was made in mind with two questions: "What is the mental toll of adventuring?" and "Who would even be bold/desperate enough to fight monsters as a profession?" As such, in Darkest Dungeon you have 2 units with ties to performing. The Jester and the Shieldbreaker. The Jesters backstory is that he was part of a decadent court that abused him for entertainment in various sadistic ways until he snapped and turned the entire court into a bloodbath either by himself (DD1) or by channeling his fury into his song, which turned it into the song of the dead (DD2). In gameplay this shows with the jester functioning as both a bard and a rogue and his insanity shows in his general demeanor and barks, especially if his stress reaches a height and he has a mental breakdown. The Shieldbreakers backstory is that she was a slave dancer, who excelled so much at her craft that she was to be sold to a cruel vezier. She managed to break her bonds, but during the fight with her captors the wagon went of a cliff, burying her arm under the rubble. And then she was bitten in the hand by an adder and basically had to cut her hand off to both escape the rubble and death by snake venom. Her fighting style basically consists of dance moves in combination with spear strikes and her trauma pulls the entire party into her nightmares when resting during expeditions, forcing you into a fight with imaginary? snakes.
FEH introduced me to Lara and Perne which are really... 😐A child gets sold into slavery and forced to "dance" for older men and then after she gets emancipated, she wants to keep "dancing" for her rescuer? Her, a 15 year old girl and him, a grown ass man. Her harem outfit is so skimpy that IS censored her sideboob in her debut trailer. But it's uncensored in-game even though she's literally the same age as Tina, the baby who's still scared of bugs.
Lara's FEH artwork is taken from her Cipher design; her original art from FE5 is, to its credit, considerably less risqué. As I said, when/if the Jugdral games ever get remakes I expect that most of the cast will get aged up - in numerical ages if not necessarily in appearance.
@@gascon-en-exil Just looked at her original art and dang we missed out. Her red turtleneck is way more cute and unique than the generic dancer getup. I don't care if it's not lore accurate to have her dance in the thief outfit, it's easily the better design imo.
Is Effin in Fire Emblem: the Binding Blade considered the first male dancer? Is it because his class is a Bard? He also provided Fortune Telling service for players. I guess that's where Seadall's interest in Fortune Teller comes from. I always ship him and Perceval. It's too bad the Binding Blade didn't have Pair Ending.
Elffin, as well as Nils from FE7, are bards, although I didn't talk about bards more broadly because FE effectively has two classes under that name: the GBA version, which is indeed a male variant of dancer, and the Jugdral version used by Lewyn and Homer, which is just a variation on mage even down to having the same promotion. How much each of them partakes of the standard fantasy bard characterization varies based on the character. Here's to hoping that if Binding Blade gets a remake the paired ending options will be expanded beyond Roy. Perceval/Elffin certainly has room to build on.
Awesome video, it is a bit of a complicated line to thread when dealing with the dancer... subtext, in these games. To me the biggest problem as much as I love some of these characters, is how theyre typically Orientalism 101 which doest pair up well with the... subtext. It would be nice if in the future, if dancers are still to be ambigously west asian coded, to have them dressed in other kinds of cultural dance attire instead of gold bikinis out of the halloween store. but you could say that about FE's treatment of west asian coded characters in general. I know you didnt touch on the herons because theyre a bit different, but when playin PoR the subplot of Reyson being sold into slavery to a clearly lecherous man had some really skincrawling implications to me that arent too far away from the other dancers... subtext.
I had to briefly mention the Orientalist designs of many of FE's dancers at the end there, but honestly that subject could warrant an entire video of its own since it goes quite a bit beyond just those characters. FEH even has an entire seasonal theme dedicated to making fanservice bait out of the series's many exoticized desert nations. That's not a video I'll be making, however, as I don't feel confident in my knowledge of Japanese media more generally and its stereotypical depictions of West Asian cultures. And yeah, Reyson's story in FE9 definitely goes to some uncomfortable places. As much as I enjoy the Tellius games, I think that owing to a number of factors they've developed a reputation for being more progressive than they actually are. One can only imagine what theoretical remakes might do with those games' sketchier elements.
@@gascon-en-exil Tellius is progressive by Fire Emblem standards, but that is a pretty low bar. Probably one of the better FE games at handling arabic cultures, but that is an even lower bar. Oliver is also one of if not the sketchiest things Tellius does, with it only saved from being the worst of the worst thanks to the implication that Oliver would never hurt Reyson and that their interaction is used to ship Tibarn x Reyson.
@@gascon-en-exil Absolutely, it's more of the dancer typically being the most immediately recognizeable element of orientalism but the way it's all been generally depicted in the series is rather shameful. I dont even pay attention to whatever feh is doing besides sometimes learning weird stuff from it against my will, but im disappointed-not-surprised to know they made it into a whole seasonal alt theme 🙄 like Aurelimsol says, tellius clears the very low bar of being not so good compared to other games (though the bar is also massively low for rpgs in general) but stands out better against other fe's in comparison... I guess because at least as far as PoR (I never got around to RD) it seems to at least take the problems within it seriously and without a fetish lens.... to a degree. i actually didn't mind the Reyson plotline in PoR because it felt, again, taken seriously at the moment, even if it could have been handled better (let alone everything else about the game that could be handled better) but one of the things that has put me off from RD is knowing that they did an U-turn with Olivers whole character like he whole thing was supposed to be a joke from the start.
It kinda bothers me how much people reduce dancers to orientalist junk nowadays, fictional media is fictional media. As long as people are loving the characters and not being disrespectful I see no harm in it That being said I never got the hype for Seadall, like hes cool! But in terms of male dancers, I dunno, something about Three Houses being more free form to make your own story for why each student becomes a dancer felt so much more special in comparison.
I think you're drawing way too many baseless conclusions. "This Dungeon and Dragons character has 2 eyes. And so does a Fire Emblem character. There clearly is a huge connection here,"
I'm curious to hear why this video would have made you dislike Dorothea. Of the three highlighted Fódlan characters she's the one I find least entertaining, but I still count her as among my favorites from those games in large part due to the relatable qualities I brought up.
