@@Rainydayz6478omg explaining again nagito said octagon in english in japanese version, that’s why hajime didn’t understand (he doesn’t know english well)
@@ВикторияВоронова-ф3о if they tried to make Nagito say octagon in a different language (in the English dub) I probably won't be making fun of it but they didn't so I'm still gonna make fun of it
In regards to the DR3 Despair anime, before it was released, a common fan theory people had was that Junko personally found each of the students at their lowest and recruited them one-by-one to help her. This was mainly due to how the third trial ended, and Junko's whole thing is her obsession with despair. I even remember a fan comic someone made of Ibuki and Junko. I honestly wish that was done instead as so much of her plan in the anime feels half-assed as you said. It doesn't feel like this is supposed to be the mastermind. Also before anyone asks, I am also aware of the light novel with a certain twist regarding her, but ngl I don't even know if even the anime remembers it unless the eye analysis scene counts.
I think that was sort of intended in the original game, but they realised that actually showing these characters turn into remorseless mass murderers is a step too far so they dialed it back in and explained it as mind control so the characters are still redeemable
They didn't just imply it they flat out stated that Junko made them her minions "one by one" in chapter 6's investigation segment. They also had AI Junko make fun of the idea of "brainwashing" .
nagito is like the best and most well written character from the series im surprised you dont like him. the “nagito doesnt reveal this information because hes a prick” is weird because the entire reason why is justified from his perspective? would you reveal/help/be friendly to people who you realize are the remnants of despair (necrophile murderers)? hes the only redeeming part of the series…
To be fair, way before the reveal of the Remnants of despair, his behaviour is extremely annoying and strange which is an easy explanation for why most people don't like him. And what do you guys actually mean by "well-written"? He's just such a strange yet intriguing character, with a convoluted way of thinking. I don't think he's THAT good of a character. He also indirectly caused the first murder and looked down on some of his classmates even before he learned about their true identities. If you like him you should acknowledge that he acts in a questionable manner and is kind of an arrogant jerk. Not "Nagito is so misunderstood and everyone else is bad".
@@assiaelmabrouki5552 I love Nagito but I like him *because* he sucks, idk how people can like him while denying that he's a terrible person. That said, I do think he is the most well-written character in Danganronpa (if we *only* take DR2 and DR2.5 into account... the majority of DR3 dramatically flubs his writing). His convoluted way of thinking is interesting, he's multifaceted, they actually bothered to give him a character arc, the character arc is internally consistent, he is fundamentally tied to the themes DR2 is trying to explore, he serves his purpose beautifully, and he has a strong effect on people, he steals the show whenever he does something new to shake up the plot whether you're thrilled or angry to see him. Nagito has a core you can dig to, and it even reflects the axis on which he orchestrates his downfall. I love that about him, and I love his initially incomprehensible morals becoming more and more clear especially if you read the Free Time Events. In Chapter 1 I do think he only meant for two people to die (himself and Teruteru), but he still killed Teruteru and Imposter Byakuya as collateral. He did want to give Teruteru a fighting chance but I don't think he was intent on him surviving the class trial (imo he partly tried to orchestrate a situation where he had someone kinda stupid to manipulate into murder). It's like yes he sucks badly but that makes him interesting, he doesn't even suck in a straightforward way he sucks in a bizarre way.
It kinda sounds to me like you missed the point on Komaeda, which was to be a red herring makoto. You see him and (at least for me) think, "oh this is makoto" especially when you see Byakuya right after so youre like "ah why the hell are they here too" and then Nagito ends up being this gross perversion of what Makoto represented.
The moment it turned to the ol' classic "brainwashing", i just couldnt be bothered with it anymore, i dunno for others but it places itself in my list of "dumbo plot points" that im biased to dislike, hate it
I'd like to clarify something about them all being high schoolers. Yasuhiro is a grown man. I don't blame you for forgetting. The game forgets this too.
Gnosia would be a better fit for that one, although to be fair it's really more like 'Town of Salem, the visual novel'. Although the localization team just 'happens' to have the characters say the phrase 'among us' like two dozen times, which I appreciated.
On the point of Makoto being a rag to just soak up the plot, I think DR2 did a far better job with both its protagonist, Hajime, and, funnily enough, Makoto himself. Hajime is generally a much more integral part of the investigations and plot as a whole. Yes, Chiaki and Nagito do a lot of the work, but it feels way more like they are your partner and your rival, respectively, than Kiyoko and Byakuya ever did. Then, once you've actually met with Makoto you get this sense that he is really willing to put himself on the line and even be rebellious against the people who took him in just to take a chance on something he feels is the right thing to do. Which are traits he technically has in DR1, but they don't come through all that well. He feels way more bold in his part of DR2. I mean, christ, he somehow (probably through Byakuya's resources) got his hands on all of Junko's followers and secretly put them all in a cryosleep simulation. That shit is pretty bold.
Tbh I kind of feel like Danganronpa would be better with a choice based storyline where you could prevent, instigate, or perhaps even try to commit and get away with a murder.
I realize im already having thoughts so ill just update this as i go 2:30 i feel like this is an aspect that sadly got lost in the translation. In the Japanese, they were not called ‘Ultimates’ but instead ‘Super Hish School Level’ (SHSL for short). Even if there is a degree of exaggeration to their talent and achievement, it was originally in that framework of being the ultimate specifically of their age group. There’s also also situations where some of the talents were very drenched in Japanese culture in such a way that did not translate, like Taka originally being the ‘SHSL Public Morals Committee Member’, a group commonplace in Japanese schools but doesn’t really exist in English countries, or how Ibuki was the ‘SHSL Music Club Member’, tying her to a specific Japanese club culture instead of just being an ultimate musician. 5:20 the problem with the agency is feel is connected to the rules of the trial: if the wrong person is voted for then everyone except the true culprit dies. A system like that inherently leaves no wiggle room. The only solutions i can think of is either completely removing the heart system and keeping any failures as purely affecting the trial score, or create a few situations where failure is possible, and your character failing to figure out the solution leads the trial down a slightly different path where the solution is discovered either by other student or other method (sort of like how the lie system seemed like it was meant to work) 9:15 i wonder if the solution to this would’ve been that maxing out affection with a character could slightly effect a trial, like say hesitantly revealing chihiro was AMAB yourself, or having extra conversations with culprits you’ve maxed with near the end or after the trial. It may still not be a lot and could only work a couple trials in but it could be neat 10:00 yeah it undermines stuff but it’s also a nice qol thing to gain access to everyone’s free time events without having to play the entire game over and over 29:19 i really love how the cast or DR2 are ‘unhinged’ as they do end up reflecting the outsiders, the students who are failed by the system. But yeah the sexual aspect is weird and they could’ve gotten across the message without constantly sexualizing the implied sexual abuse victim of Mikan. 35:28 the thing i will give the snowboarding minigame in DR2 was it being a reference to Detective Conan, whom the Japanese voice actor of Hajime also voiced. But yeah the minigames could probably be kept to the bullets swords and final manga and it could be a lot smoother 43:17 yeah im probably gonna skip the DR3 anime part just cause i already know its bad and undermines everything
I _strongly_ dislike the whole "hypnotism" thread. Imo it greatly takes away from what Junko's major strength was shown to be: reading people and manipulating them. We see this put on display at the end of DR2, where she _almost_ convinces everyone present that even the "good option" is pointless. Even though she was of course incorrect, she was _really good_ at playing to everyone's inner turmoil and insecurities, turning them to the train of thought she wanted from them. I was really interested to see just what she did that _broke_ the characters of Hope's Peak's 77th Class to the point of siding with her in a global revolution, but... hypnotism via subliminal messaging? Really? So it's _not_ that the people's inner darkness was twisted to her own purposes, but rather... she made them watch a video? One of the running themes of the series is that we as humans can turn to really dark places if pushed far enough -- that when under emotional extremes, we _choose_ to take evil actions. But _brainwashing_ isn't people _choosing_ to do bad things, nor is it really emotional extremes. It feels like they really couldn't find a way to justify (or portray convincingly) how good of a manipulator Junko is and took a more easy, scapegoat-y explanation. The _best_ I can say is that at least they did commit to the idea for the series itself, re-using the video-hypnotism idea in the reveal of the murder game and the finale. So at _least_ it didn't pop up out of nowhere and didn't go places. But I still really dislike what it does to the themes of the whole narrative.
Also you get massive bonus points for explaining your process in the outro as I've been hoping to find an essayist or commentary writer who would organically explain their methodology for so long, and seeing that method used with a property I'm super familiar with makes it click super well. We are pro-tangents here :)
I'm a huge DR fan and I'm so happy the algorithm brought me here as I had a rather similar script in the works, which a) I don't need to publish anymore as I can direct people here, but b) man is it relieving to hear these grievances spoken through. Danganronpa's insistence in being accessible to those with very low literacy levels is an issue that has become very common within the past ~20 years of media. Rather than creating stories with sound logic, motive, cause and effect, and pacing, media is made for the "wow" of it all, and "since it's for kids/teens, it doesn't matter if it's begrudging." Problem is, that means these kids don't get to develop those storytelling skills nor understanding of motive- they never have media to practice those thoughts on. I had a scary interaction with a fan about seven years younger than me, someone probably early in high school, where they did not believe there were any allegories for fascism in the Danganronpa series. They failed to recognize the mass production of Monokumas from the massive conglomerate of the Towa group, they failed to recognize the use of celebrity endorsement and of just-plain-folks endorsement of these materials and ideologies despite Junko Enoshima being the catalyst for these stories, they failed to recognize the outrageous amount of high schoolers well trained in weaponry, and they failed to recognize that weaponry was so widely available the every day man had become determined to solve their own issues with violence since their economic system left them no other option, didn't see the surveillance systems enforced on every citizen, didn't see the isolationist nature of a school like Hopes Peak, missed the memo about Hopes Peak basically being a lobbying firm rather than an educational institution, etc. These things are impossible to ignore, especially in the first two games, as parts of the story grind to a halt so the characters can explain it outright- yet, because the dialogue and details are so pedantic, many peoples take away from the games is that there can't possibly be a higher political issue in the canon world, that this series can't possibly be a statement about any real world systems.
I would LOVRE to see your takes on the Zero Escape Trilogy and AI: The Somnium Files. Uchikoshi is the man behind those and is huge friends with DR's creator but is way less popular despite being way more competent overall.
I've watched just the beginning, I don't want to be spoiled so I'm not reading the rest of the comments, but I have a recommendation for you. Especially because you said you like slow-burn stories. If you don't mind reading mangas/webtoons, try reading Kubera. I don't wanna say a single word more, since everything interesting I could say is pretty much a spoiler. It's best to go in blind. The story is split into 3 seasons (well the 3rd season was meant to be 3rd and 4th but they were merged cause of reasons) and the entire first season is basically considered as an introduction. It's 92 chapters long introduction lol. The dialogue writing is also pretty clever (sadly it gets botchered by the official English translation, it's best to stick to unofficial one on Mangadex). It gives exposition in a natural way for the characters in universe, which makes it so that readers have to piece it in their minds themselves To explain this with an example - imagine a conversation between two random folks in our modern age talking about WW2. Everyone knows about WW2, everyone knows who was the "bad guy", what factions took part etc. As such, when discussing it we wouldn't be randomly explaining it. If somehow, someone who doesn't know about WW2 heard that conversation and they needed to piece in their head what this WW2 even was, because they would have no other context outside of this dialogue. And that's pretty much how Kubera writes world exposition, which is something 99% anime do not. And that is a fantasy world with it's own set of rules, factions and creatures. And an extensive, EXTENSIVE history. The story we're following in "current" time is basically a conclusion to the events that were set in motion thousands of years ago. And barely any of this information is revealed through a normal exposition or a flashback. Again, I think it's a very clever way to write dialogues. The downside is that, if you don't think while reading, you're gonna get lost quite easily. The upside is that, you need to think while reading instead of mindlessly watching the story unfold.
Am sorry but most of your criticism goes out the window when you hate both anime and visual novels. Danganronpa specially is extremely anime on purpose since it basically parodies a lot of the tropes for anime and is very much self aware. The series is clearly not something made to appeal to you.
did you listen to what he actually said or just hear "i don't like anime" and tune out? he says he doesn't like anime with a lack of worldbuilding and complex narratives, and he explored danganronpa because it had those things. and he's barely critiquing the tropes, just the franchise's foundational issues. danganronpa plays with tropes sometimes but you can tell while playing it that it wants to be taken seriously as a game and franchise. you can't just sweep the varying quality of gameplay and storytelling under the umbrella of "parody"
@@angelinaxtriana Just saying that not enjoying visual novels and anime would hurt the enjoyment of anyone by a huge amount trying to get into Danganronpa cause those aspects are a huge part of the appeal of Danganronpa. And sure their is plenty of moments where the game wants you to take it seriously but their is a lot of parodying and silly stuff in Danganronpa as well that are clearly not meant to be taking to seriously too. But anyway, I wrote this comment half way in the video. When I finished the video later I actually end it up thinking he had better points then I expected, didn’t agree with everything but is a decent review, no hate to the guy.
you do have a good point about that even if the video doesn't touch much on it, a lot of my appreciation for dr comes from watching others play it. playing it myself was so tedious bc of the visual novel style so it definitely can impact enjoyment of an otherwise interesting series. i disagree with him saying danganronpa seemed better as an anime just because it's story focused, that definitely comes from a bias against visual novels
I think the only anime that I am proud to say that I have seen and am a fan of is Code Geass. There is some elements of your stereotypical anime nonsense, which is not that bad, and is treated as a side plot meant to have something counteract the surprisingly dark, serious, and at moments thought provoking majority of the show. It also gives has all main characters in an explicitly morally grey light including, especially the main character who is very smart but still makes regretable mistakes with permanent consequences. It made me really appreciate story in media and changed what games I seek out that I would have ignored beforehand. Also, if you plan on watching it, watch the English dub. The performances are great. Also, mainly, the story makes more sense (and no Japanese voice actors awkwardly trying to pronounce English words) if the characters are speaking English instead of Japanese.
"I hate anime", nah man. I think you just hate shounen anime. Anime is a medium, shounen is the genre that caters to teenage boys who like fights and weird sexualization of girls. Seinen and josei tend to be a bit better because they're actually catering for adult audiences who want real stories. I hate the current culture that predominately puts shounen on this pedestal of greatness. Please, I beg all of these people to grow up and stop watching shows for teenagers.
Idk mate, there are plenty of slow burn character centric anime out there. I love JJBA but def don't go to it and other shonen if you're looking for a slow burn worldbuilding piece. I would recommend .hack//sign and nothing has really topped it in my eyes. It has a glacial pace but the music makes it all worth it and the character studies and development is outstanding.
I love the idea and story of Danganronpa. I have never played the games and also the story is inconsistent. But some of the characters have cool concepts behind them!
"I know she stabbed him with a knife-" "BUT CAN YOU SPELL THE WORD KNIFE?!" "...yeah?" "IN THIS FUN GAME?" (several letters floating about to dumb music) "I need a K." "MAKE SURE YOU PICK THE RIGHT LETTERS!" "I can't spell 'knife' without a K." "AND IF DIFFERENT LETTERS TOUCH, THEY EXPLODE!" "There's no K!" "YOU GET TO MAKE A COMIC BOOK AFTER THIS!"
You forgot the final rhythm game against the culprit where they are pretty much exposed and have no way of talking their way out of their situation, but if you lose everyone develops collective amnesia and votes the protagonist who 99% of the times isn't even remotely connected to the crime itself. I guess it's Japan's way of saying: you are either good at rhythm games, or you should unalive yourself.
@@loren5432 Mate you can just say 'kill', John RU-vid isn't going to descend upon your location and blow your house up if you don't censor every word you say.
I feel like the original Distrust concept would've been cooler (Distrust the game's original name before it was changed). This version of the game would've had a Distrust meter which would go up and down depending on your actions and your interactions with the other students. This would influence how things would go in the class trials. There were also multiple different killers and victims that could happen depending on your decisions. I think the investigation was stricter as well.
I went into THH thinking it would be like this. I hope someone makes a mod that does this, but the mods that we currently have just replace the students with jpegs of John Cena.
yeah my biggest wish as i saw the franchise grew was that they would make a noveltyish throwback to thh and produce distrust considering they probably have/had a big enough fanbase for the cost to be covered. as my all time favourite game is until dawn, if they went down that style of gameplay combined with the already pre-existing thh characters it couldve made an awesome game
Yes! Distrust had killers and victims be decided by your interactions. It was set to happen during 7 days, a short timeline, with the game paying attention to your actions. Darker and more adult, it'd be the perfect send-off to an iconic franchise and gift to fans. Kodaka might not want to make another DR, and thank God because his writing showed how much he hated it (NDRV3 being a direct call-out and DR3 being utter shit), but his first vision for THH, something that is so different could be up his alley. No big storyline, no world building Ultimate shit, just a dozen teens stuck in some kind of hangar/whatever the building was and slowly going crazy to the point of brutally murdering their would-be classmate if you're not careful enough. This is the kind of game, on a gameplay mechanic standpoint, that is insanely popular right now. It's feasible, it's easier to do than in the 2000s. People are also beginning to love darker games, think Fear&Hunger, and DR fans are old enough to enjoy it. It'd also be good for his new studio and prove that he can write something different from DR (which sorry but he still hasn't done, on top of keeping the same artist most of the time, his writing is very DR-like). This is the perfect time to bring Distrust back!
It would be incredibly difficult to make such mechanic. Also building plot around that would be near impossible, but the idea is super fascinating I agree.
I love how every danganronpa video essay is criticising it constantly, only to end on "though this game series is objectively bad, I still kinda love it"
As for me, I don't like the game at all. I had fun with it back then but looking back it isn't that good at all. The fandom especially is a disaster full of disgusting people.
Okay, about ten minutes in, and the free time event thing. I think there’s one character who actively goes against her free time events in trial, and that’s Maki Harukawa. If you play her free time segments, she alludes to having another girl from her orphanage she was super close to, and that she became an assassin in order to protect her. Yet in Kaito’s trial, she says that he was the first person she wanted to protect…? Something along those lines, it’s been a minute. But playing her free times makes the conclusion of the fifth trial in that game feel worse because of it, like they were trying to invalidate the ties she had to her best friend. So bizarre to me.
Yeah, felt a bit strange. Would've felt better if it was something like "first time in a long time." Would've also made the free time event feel worthwhile.
Also, Ryoma's FTEs directly ruin his character! He tries to work and get better and appears to be healing from his depression but then Chapter 2 throws that all down the drain.
@phrog5009 I actually liked that. Ryoma was someone who was trying to get better, and not just in his FTEs. He even told Kaito he'd try to be better iirc. Chapter 2 was a tragedy because a character arc was expected, but then his life was cut short. In this case, Danganronpa did the whole free time thing right, because we did actually see another side of a character, and that side died with them.
Actually, have you ever heard of 'Your Turn To Die' (Kimi ga Shine)? It is also a Japanese game and, similar to Danganronpa, its a death game with multiple characters. Its genre is a visual novel, but that doesn't hold it back, rather it may actually amplify it. In my opinion, 'Your Turn To Die' is way better than Danganronpa in terms of story, character, and effective writing. This game will make you feel downright guilty and depressed by using gameplay and story. That's why this game requires gameplay. The story is masterful on its own, but the gameplay puts that intractability and uses it to its maximum effect. I highly recommend this game if you haven't played it. I'd love to see your thoughts and views on it.
I see a YTTD mention, I click like! I don't think YTTD is perfect by any means: after all, it's an indie visual novel made by just one person, with basically zero budget, that can even be played for free on browser. But there are things in YTTD that became very, very special to me, and those things are the reasons why I'm a fan.
I played it, and it's a very fun game. I felt awful for killing the red haired student, our best friend, and the job hopping guy. The best part of it is that the protagonist, Sara I think, isn't one noted like the Danganronpa protagonists. P.S. I forgot the names because it's been so long since I played. Sorry.
There's a difference between a player driven mystery and a character driven mystery and Danganronpa is 100% a character driven mystery. It's not up to you to figure out what happened, it's up to the protagonist to solve it and you're just along for the ride to drive their actions. I also just hate Junky as a character for turning into Sigma and posthumously warping the series around herself.
The whole point of a murder mystery is to allow the reader to predict who the killer is with the clues that are presented. Danganronpa fails at that with its bad writing and illogical conclusions. By saying that the reader is supposed to not figure out what is possibly happening. Is basically invaliding their intelligence.
@@morningbell3690 I disagree, almost all dr cases give you enough evidence that having a trial is worthless. Though I do agree, it does make the character conversations/discussions annoying since most of these cases can simply end in a couple of mins if the writers didn't obv wanted to stretch out the trials.
Amazing video, RU-vid desperately needs more danganronpa content. Just one thing. The more canon translation to the Ultimate titles is Super High School Level. So these kids are not THE best on the planet, they're just extremely advanced compared to their peers. Just like Chihiro isn't programmer №1 in the world but someone who earned a collaboration with AI researchers at age 16/18(don't remember), The SHSL Nurse is also just that. The most notable talent in this age group. She's still not a professional medic, so there might have been a very valid reason for Ryota to leave the room and bump into Junko.
"I'm not exactly an anime guy. There are exceptions, notably these mainstream picks, but i just didn't find what i wanted out of these other shows that were tonally different and probably meant for a seperate audience. With this said, here is a video essay on a series which has a principle appeal in indulging and exaggerating tropes i don't find appealing". Hmm. No offense, but is there a factory out there that keeps producing you guys?
Something about the characters talents is that a lot of them are altered, some just in wording, some that can be seen as a different talent. Aoi Asahina from the first game is the SHSL Swimmer in Japan, but in localizations, she becomes the Ultimate Swimming Pro. It’s a slight change. Take Ibuki Mioda from the second game though, she goes from SHSL Light Music Club Member, which is a type of after school club that is the basis for shows like K-on!, compared to her English title as the very broad Ultimate Musician.
@@starzeyqueyt4228 apologies, but from what I know, are those not more or less the same? Gyaru's are normally very "American Urbanite", and American Urbanite girls are (from my knowledge), very much into streetwear and fashion in general.
@@fablor9900No, they're not the same. Fashionista implies a very broad talent, like she's a model for brands or does all kinds of fashion + critiques all kinds of styles. But she isn't, she does 1 singular aesthetic and is really good at it. Gyaru.
6:06 Ironically, this is a very common way of speaking in Japan. Repeating a certain part of a sentence for clarification is something everyone does. This is not the unrealistic part about anime at all.
@@PhantomOfficial07 People around me talk like that all the time. Besides he annoying braindead people who just spout "duh what?" and you have to spend 10 seconds finding out what they are confused about.
Humans are contradictory by nature. That aside honestly Danganronpa always feels like a template for something greater , but you can never be fully satisfied with the raw material you are given
So basically the video is "I hate anime" and also "I hate visual novels" and so "I hate danganronpa" Like, do I even need to watch the other hour of the video when you spend the first 10 minutes just going "I hate X thing" Ok, you hate it, whatever then.
I feel like you may just like... not have the themes right. If you find so many counters to the permanence of death idea, maybe it's not a theme the writers were intending on readers taking? Like I never felt like DR was ever about the permanence of Death considering, in just the first game alone, everything with Chihiro and Alter Ego, Kyondo Ishida, Junko Fucking Enoshima being the mastermind despite being supposedly dead the whole time, hifumi faking his death, Mukuro's corpse being "killed again", Celeste's monologue about being reborn to be executed. If anything it's not ever about the permanence of death but the way death can happen at anytime to anyone. Or at least the tragedy of lost youth, or something, but death in DR has almost never been permanent, like even once...
At least Your Turn to Die fixes (more or less) the problem of having a hilariously linear plot where you absolutely will eventually take the right route, in YTTD you are forced to choose who dies sometimes and can kill characters on accident. I mean, that game even did right having an AI based off of a now dead companion with the emotional impact on characters that it should have.
Me killing Anzu off dozens of times and refusing to simply go on cuz I loved her just for her to inevitably die at the end of the chapter is my canon event
What makes yttd so great is that sometimes it gives you the illusion you CAN save characters at points, so when the game inevitably kills them off you're filled with a sense of dread. It's fantastic
Hey, long time Danganronpa fan here. Probably since 2014/2015? I've written 319 fanfiction on the series (why yes, I am autistic, why do you ask?), and am certifiably obsessed. That being said, I tried to go into this with an open mind. I have a LOT of criticism of Danganronpa (no one hates Danganronpa more than the people who love it), and so I was definitely interested in what you had to say. First, regarding consequences of the game - I admit I never felt the stakes were low, but that's because I have a crippling fear of failure and tend to be a perfectionist - even failing trival things, like Danganronpa, can send me spiralling. This is something I'm trying to work on, because it's not healthy. But it does mean for me, personally, the stakes never felt that low. Looking at it objectively they definitely were, but I don't really see it as a negative personally (even if it's totally valid to do so). I'm not good at video games despite being very interested in them, so I don't mind being spoonfed (to a degree, though I agree that some of the game play is just not very good in some cases-plus I also agree that the dialogue can get. Pretty freaking repetitive). That being said, something that drove me wild about Danganronpa is how uninspired and repetitive the bad endings you get for failing are. Makoto is always voted as the blackened, even if it doesn't make sense for the trial. It made sense for the first case, as he was framed, but Celestia's, where she framed Yasuhiro? Why would anyone vote for Makoto? I understand Danganronpa is a long game, but I would love to see more creative, varied, and in depth bad endings from them. For example, something that stood out to me regarding Ultra Despair Girls/Another Episode is that it had a very interesting bad ending, something that felt rare for the series - it's definitely my favorite of the one's I've seen. Komaru blowing up all the Monokids heads is so haunting, and her narration is unsettling too and I think very good at envoking that horror - well, at least for Danganronpa. I really wish there was more endings like this one, though it's short it packed a punch. I really like visual novels. I'd call myself a fan of the medium. Specifically games that let you make choices that led to different outcomes/endings. Again, I'm not good at game play, but I have a love for what games are - "choose your own adventure" type stories. There's a lot of different ways to do a game, too - games where exploration affects the story are really, really cool at least in theory, but I find myself frustrated when I can't uncover everything (or at least most of what) a game has to offer, so I do tend to like somewhat limited narratives versus personalized experiences. Games where no two lets plays are the same are again, really cool in concept, and I have a lot of repsect for them, I just tend to prefer more linear stories. That being said, I do adore being given dialogue options that change how things end up - I really like multiple endings & feeling like what I say matter. Which is why it drove me nuts when Danganronpa had almost no dialogue or action choices, and one of the notable times it does in the first game, it doesn't let you pick the "wrong" option of telling Kyouko about Sakura! If you didn't want me to tell her, don't have it be an option to! I hate the illusion of choice more than if they didn't prompt me to make a choice in the first place. I disagree with you about FTEs. I think there's something really valuable to get from them, especially in SDR2 (and before the DR3 anime's retcons). I think FTEs walk a fine line as optional content; they have to add to the character, while not necessarily being needed to understand the gist of a character. Which is very hard to do! All things considered, I think they did pretty well with most of them. I LIKE learning more things about these character, even if some of what I learn is a little trival. I agree that some FTEs lean too far into "meaningless fluff", but there's also FTEs like Mahiru, where she talks about her mom and dad & in my opinion provide extra context to why she would have joined Junko in addition to twilight syndrome murder case (before the dreaded DR3 anime retcons). Akane, too, had really good FTEs in my opinion; I'd argue her FTEs are better than the content she gets in the main game (I'm salty how they treated her and Ibuki outside of their FTEs, tbh). Other stand out FTEs include Hiyoko's, Nekomaru's, Ibuki's, and Sonia's (though less so with her imo). And then, we get FTEs like Mikan Tsumiki's, which I'd argue are VITIAL to understanding her to the point where they SHOULD NOT BE OPTIONAL. I'd argue they leaned too far in the other direction for her-they made her FTEs contain too much valuable information that the main game doesn't. In my opinion, you can't fully understand chapter three of the game without doing all of her FTEs (with maybe the exception of the last one). It is so crucial and I definitely think they leaned too much into the other direction with her. It leads to a lot of people misinterpreting her. I also disagree about Salmon/Island/School Mode. Again, I've talked about how I don't share your views on FTEs, and that extends to this. I think its a nice reward for doinh the game, and a great way to finish all the FTEs you missed, as well as learn more about the characters on the dates you go on; specifically how they may react in a non despair (or pre despair, which is interesting to consider because we don’t see their school life outside of the DR3 anime, and even then we only see the SDR2 cast-I suppose we can gain some insight to the DR1 cast with DR0, but that only really gives insight to Junko, Mukuro, and a little bit Makoto). Plus, I think dating sims are fun! Especially when you're already invested in the characters. It's nice to think of a universe where they got to be normal (ish) teens. I don't consider it "me" dating the characters, but the protagonists of their respective games; since they're pretty much all fully fledged characters themselves. I was a teen myself when I played it though, so maybe it was less weird because of that. Plus, at least in SDR2, the characters are technically adults. Not the best argument since they think they're teens, look like teens, and act like teens, plus it doesn't apply to V3 (I don't think? The ending kind of makes everything questionable, tbh), but that's media for you, I guess. I would say "that's anime for you", but to be honest I think sexualization of teens and "gotcha! They're not technically teens because blah blah blah!" is unfortunately apparent in media all across the world. Hmmmm. To be completely honest, Danganronpa 1 is my least favorite game, with Super Danganronpa 2 being my favorite! I do agree that the atmosphere of DR1 is more eerie, but I liked the world building, plot including plot twists (well... for the most part; I still don't really like Mechamaru or chapter a lot of chapter 4, despite it arguably having one of the more horrifying motives provided by Monokuma), and characters a lot more in SDR2 than in DR1. But of course, that's only counting the games; my favorite installment has to be Danganronpa 0, a light novel that unfortunately never got an official localization (my icon is the POV character from the novel, actually!), and my least favorite HAS to be the Danganronpa 3 anime. So much potential in that anime that is just frustratingly not fulfilled. I've gotten a lot of flack online for saying that, but it's what I think. Still, even DR3 I don't HATE. I think it had potential, which makes how it squanders it even more disappointing. I tend to write that off as due to time constraints. I agree with you about the tone. Sometimes its really jarring how unaffected by things they are. I think it's most jarring with Ibuki. She's supposed to be a very sweet girl, but she only acts as comic relief even when theres a deadbody on the floor. It makes her look calloused. I think its supposed to read as her trying to keep the mood up with humor and cheer up her friends, but honestly, it just makes it look like she doesn't care about her friends dying. Yeah, "Tell them, Naegi!" Is a meme for a reason. No need to say more. I'd argue that Makoto isn't characterless. It's just that ironically he's a lot less interesting when you're in his POV. He has a very clear moral philosophy in SDR2, he has principles, he makes somewhat morally gray choices in the cause of what he thinks is right. He believes in redeeming the remnants, even if he has to betray Future Foundation to do it... Which I'd argue is SUPER interesting. He is essentially arguing for redeemtion and restorative justice, which is a real position real people have. He is infinitely more interesting when you view him from the outside. I also want to say, the fact that he is a mostly normal guy also isn't just to insert the player-it serves to illustrate the series themes that talent DOESN'T equal hope. It's important that Makoto is normal AND the Ultimate Hope. Him being so proves Hope's Peak and people like Nagito Komaeda wrong, which is very important for the message of the series. Hope is found in the peopke around you, the bonds you have, and kindness. That's what Danganronpa says with Makoto Naegi. I went over the character limit, so continued comment in the replies!
Alter Ego is pretty different of a personality than Chihiro, in my opiniom. I wouldn't say Chihiro comes back as an AI-Alter Ego is much more methodical and logic-driven. I also think Alter Ego coming back makes sense; they connected to the internet & uploaded a backup of themselves there. It also highlights how Junko was defeated; she let Alter Ego be at first because she thought it was funny to raise their hopes and crush them, but that bit her in the butt. She also let Alter Ego be with the hope that it could possibly led to her defeat, showing how self defeating Junko & her ideology is. I think it's... fine, that Alter Ego comes back. I consider them a completely seperate entity from Chihiro. But I do understand how it could feel cheap. (Danganronpa 3 feels cheap in this exact same way, how it makes you think Hina or Kyouko died, only for it to be a fake out - they constantly dangle the chance of one of the DR1 survivors dying and then never commit to it. Infuriating. If you're going to fake out a death in such a way, at least only do it ONCE.) I do think they, uhm, over use the AI thing after a while. I feel like people are creating AIs so carelessly and easily. I think the moment it crossed a line for me, where I was just thinking, "And why are we making MORE AI's???" was in the Danganronpa 3 anime OVA, Super Danganronpa 2.5: Nagito Komaeda and the Destroyer of Worlds. I liked the OVA, one of the best parts of DR3 on a whole, but I was also sort of like... why though? Why did it have to be an AI doing this? Why are we making AIs so blasé now? Yeah. The "fanservice" in SDR2 is bad. I really, really don't like it, even when I was young I hated it. I feel really bad for Mikan being used in such a way considering her backstory, too, and indignate on Akane's behalf that most of her characterization in the main game is just jokes about her body or stupidity. Yeah, the minigames are trash. Except the logic dive. I love logic dive. Hehe. Yeah. Nagito is a prick. I hate him
I really like a lot about Side:Future. I don't mind the suicide video as I think they actually did it in the best way they could. I like how they furthered Makoto and Kyouko's arcs, mirroring and contrasting with Danganronpa 1. I like most of the new characters (at least the ones we get to know), but... Side:Despair just detracts from it all with that brainwashing video. Just imagine if Chisa was revealed as the mastermind and Ryota as a sort of traitor type character. I love that idea, that there were remnants Makoto missed and thats why this is happening. Keep the suicide and hope videos; have Ryota meeting Junko through the Imposter introducing them (or maybe Mikan if you want to keep her in the know about Imposter & Ryota). Either axe the brainwashing video entirely, or only use it on the reserve course. And if you really want to use it on the remnants? You can't resist robbing them of agency and culpability and making Makoto's choice to save them less morally grey? You want to soften SDR2's message about redemption? Then at least strengthen your other message about how despair lies, how despair isn't inevitable - have Junko try to pull the class into despair like it was said she did in SDR2 & have her FAIL and resort to brainwashing afterwards. It characterizes Junko beautifully too, especially considering how she lied in SDR2 about it. And human Chiaki? You can keep her, too, even without the brainwashing used on the remnants. She's a threat to Junko. She gives hope to the remnants, and they're torn between Junko and her. Junko proposes a test between the two of them; if Chiaki can make it through this maze, she will bow out and let Chiaki's hope win. Nagito agrees first; he's all about testing hope. Mikan agrees after; she's devoted to Junko, as the only person who pointed out how people treated her was wrong & "forgave" her existence. There's multiple escape doors in the maze and Junko claims one of them is the real one instead of leading to spiked death-she's lying. Isn't it so much worse, the idea that her friends put her into this situation of their own free will, caused her death, essentially killed her? And maybe that's why Izuru is so callous towards them dying in SDR2; he doesn't like how fickle and unloyal they are, that they betrayed Chiaki. In SDR2, his choice to put Junko AI into a simulation with also Chiaki AI gets recontextualized as him pitting Chiaki and Junko against each other for a rematch; torn between Chiaki's hope, her dying message to her, and Junko's despair. He's testing to see if Chiaki or Junko was right. There's also another possibility for human Chiaki, but it would require tweaking Super Danganronpa 2 too. Having her be a regular remnant of despair who then later betrays the group & turns them into Makoto (to be rehabilitated probably works best with her character) would be super interesting. That's how she would be a "traitor". You'd have to tweak a lot of SDR2 (how Monokuma knows theres a traitor, the fact that the Remnants of Despair all knew about Junko being uploaded) but I think that could have potentially been interesting too. There was so much they could have done. I have so many ideas on how to improve DR3's story. I have literally written so much fanfiction tweeking the canon of it! I love love love love Danganronpa. But... Augh. Sometimes I am just so frustrated with it, too! Also, why not have the Imposter or Mikan (or a combination of the two) talk down Ryota in Side:Hope? Doesn't that make more sense for Ryota's character than Hajime? I know Side:Despair focused a lot on Hajime, but... This is a Ryota-focused moment and it makes more sense to have the people he actually interacts with to talk him down. Also, why reopen Hope's Peak? Doesn't that fly in the face of the games messages about talent not being hope, and it being dangerous to put too much emphasis on it? Was the downfall of society jot because of this very school? Why couldn't Makoto open a different school that had nothing to do with Ultimates, or just become a regular teacher even? I like the idea of Makoto as an educator (its even mentioned in Ishimaru's FTEs and just honestly fits really well) but why did it have to be Hope's Peak specifically? Also, also! Why is Twilight Syndrome Murder Case given so little weight once its over? I like what they did with Natsumi (mostly) and especially her relationship with Hajime, but even that felt rushed; I wish we got more time with it. And the only impact the case had was motivating Hajime to join the Izuru project in her memory (which I did like), but it impacts literally nothing else. It makes it feel like it was something they felt tehy had to do & wanted to rush through. And I don't like that Mahiru was retconned to have no idea about the murder! It weakens case 2 in SDR2, and it makes Mahiru less interesting & softens her culpability and moral ambiguity! I don't like it!! I like morally ambiguous characters!!! Plus, Fuyuhiko killing Sato had NO weight whatsoever, shouldn't tensions be high between him and Mahiru because of that? We move on so quickly, and instead start focusing on Nagito for some reason! I love Nagito, but I don't want him right now! Give me Mahiru!!! Also, I don't think Nagito is in character for most of despair arc. The only way I can justify his behavior is with the idea that Chiaki changed his philosophy on hope (sort of like how Hajime does in island mode) but we don't actually see that happen & it's not stated that thats the case, so that's more of a headcanon. And I didn't like how they did Mikan & specifically her relationship with Junko. It seemed so interesting in SDR2, but its so simple seeming here - and I can't fathom how Junko is actually set apart from anyone else who abused Mikan in her life, and why she regarded her as different in SDR2. I liked her, Imposter, and Ryota's relationship, but that was about the only thing I liked about how they handled Mikan. I feel like Mikan being jealous of Chiaki was like, alluded to breifly but not explored in depth, which is a shame because its really interesting! Chiaki is socially inupt at first and yet forgiven & beloved by the class, unlike Mikan... the envy and bitterness that can arise from that, seeing yourself in someone and yet them being infinitely more loved than you are, its so, so interesting! Add bitterness at her never stopping Hiyoko (which probably extends to all of Mikan's classmates in her head-after all, "in the end, you're all just a bunch of bullies!") and that could be real motive to help kill her even without the brainwashing video. Mikan was already deeply messed up even before she got the remembering disease in SDR2 as evidenced by her FTEs, so it's not so far fetched. Also. I think having it be brainwashing also greatly detracts from the Hajime/Junko foil the game had going on. In Mikan's last FTE, she directly states that Hajime is the one whose "forgiven" her, directly paralleling Junko. To me, it implied that Junko did something very similar to Hajime does in these FTEs, get to know the cast, but with malicious intent instead of Hajime's (bumbling) kindness. Yet that all gets thrown out with the brainwashing video... Hajime also parallels/foils Junko in their alter ego's/alternate identities, Izuru for Hajime and Ryouko for Junko. They're almost inverses of each other in that respect. I would have liked to see more Yasuke Matsuda, too. That's not strictly necessary, I just love him. Okay, I've said way too much. I'm not even done with the video, but, yeah. Those are my thoughts. Sorry for ranting!
Got to the point where you talk about Chisa being the killer. You're right, actually. That's a good idea too! I actually used it in a fanfic! (Specifically one of my despair!Chiaki fanfics. Now that I think about it, I also didn’t mention another option for Chisa; have her be foster siblings or something like that with Junko before she got adopted by a loving couple with her taking their last name and then meeting Juzo and Kyosuke with them none the wiser of her connection with Junko. Or something like that? Have her been corrupted way before she even teaches, with her helping pull the remnants down & her reason for teaching in the first place being doing so. Eehh, that ideas more rough, but it is a idea I had and used in a fanfic too. Another despair!Chiaki fanfic, actually, different from the one mentioned previously. In this situation, Chisa would be like Yasuke Matsuda or Mukuro Ikusaba.) I totally forgot to mention it as an option, though. Honestly Chisa is big missed potential, tbh. Also don't even talk to me about Monaka. Either redeem her, make her neutral, or make her a villain, PLEASE. You could even keep her being so bored she even got bored of despair as a plot point as long as you don't contradict it at other!! Points!!! Just! Commit! To something! You're totally right that DR3 doesn't. Commit! As a Monaka fan I'm so frustrated at the potential the anime had with her character & how they didn't completely follow through. They wanted to have their cake and eat it too. This is definitely going in my liked videos. I disagreed at some points, but you very much articulated a lot of what frustrates me about this series! I very much enjoyed this video
the fact this titanic well-worded analysis didn't at least get a like whereas "sus among us booba" right beneath it did is making my hair turn white from stress
Yk what? Danganronpa is best in written novel form like in Danganronpa zero (junko is a much more compelling villian here.) and Danganronpa kirigiri. Its dog water in anime form. And somewhat alright in visual novel form (the killing game ), it's biggest flaw is the repetitiveness and useless fillar dialogue it has, so i think if it was just a novel alot of those issues would've been fixed.
Even the little extra Danganronpa:IF novel thing about an alternate ending to the first game wound up being surprisingly good, maybe this format was made for print or sth.
I always find it interesting how can someone like SDR2 without at least appreciating Komaeda as a character when he was the one making the plot interesting not to mention 2-4 and 2-5 are the best chapters of the franchise thanks to him
It's about people's tastes. Yes he made SDR2 special but people still have the right to dislike him as a character. I mean, it would be lying not to say that he was kinda annoying.
damn i guess lactose intolerant people cant walk down the dairy aisle now huh? he just wants to make an opinion video commenting on the game, what is he supposed to do in your eyes? lie and dont mention that he doesnt like anime?? not play the game?? thats so silly
@@the-postal-dude in modern day yeah, back when I was big in the fandom in 2018-2021 p3 and p4 were considered godtier and not liking them meant you weren't a real fan
@@uglymarigoldif we are going that far back i do think it was the surplus of new fans who only watched anime, but even back then jojo 7 was getting praised by some of the manga readers obviously not all. Still good that seven is the best
1:00:40 one critique i have is that junko doesnt like having way outs and 100% foolproof plans. she met kamakura because there was a possibility that her plan would fail and she would fall into a deeper sense of despair, which she craves desperately. everything she does is to satiate her boredom through trying to manufacture unpredictable events which could end in unparalleled levels of despair - whether for her peers, the world, or herself. thats the essence of her character and what makes her the ultimate despair.
Not enjoying this video thus far because so much of the critique thus far has been either bad-faith or the result of poor media literacy but I’ve been reading some comments and they’re driving me insane. Seeing so many people recommend YTTD (which I adore, by the way) when so much of it is very obviously inspired by and sometimes even lifted from Danganronpa is hilarious. YTTD is fantastic, definitely, but if someone really dislikes Danganronpa’s style and visual novels as a medium more generally then they’re not going to enjoy YTTD either. Also like…YTTD is still in progress, and we have no idea how virtually all of the game’s major plot threads and character arcs will be resolved because neither version of 3-2 has been released yet. It’s really ridiculous to shit on Danganronpa for bad storytelling, yet recommend an unfinished game that’s resolved so few of its plotlines that it’s impossible to fairly measure its handling of its story and themes against other games’.
Danganronpa 3 is bad in a lot of ways, but so much of this critique is based in a fundamental misunderstanding of the game’s themes. The permanence of death is a concept the series plays with a lot, most obviously and frequently as it pertains to Junko, who lives in a liminal space between ‘alive’ and ‘dead’ precisely because death is more complicated than biological loss of life. Alter Ego also deals with that question, because though it looks like Chihiro and sounds like Chihiro, it fundamentally isn’t him and will never be able to (and doesn’t want to) live out his unfulfilled dreams, which died with him. On the other hand, Mechamaru makes the opposite point: he is Nekomaru, despite being a robot. The series is fundamentally interested in the dichotomy of hope and despair-it seeks to test how far its characters’ ability to withstand true hopelessness and tragedy can be stretched before it snaps. What you call the permanence of death is so important in DR1 because it’s what brings Junko proper down. Though she might not seem it, she’s just as human as everyone else-and because she plays by her own rules, she has to face the same punishment as everyone else. It’s really important that Junko’s pursuit of despair ultimately kills her because it proves her thesis wrong: despair doesn’t always win out; the DR1 survivors’ perseverance and eventual victory prove that hope is much more resilient than she had believed, which fittingly drags her into despair. SDR2 is about rehabilitation from despair, finding hope where there truly is none and rejecting the idea that failure is insurmountable and predestined just because of how low the odds of success are. Having everyone die like in DR1 would seriously undermine SDR2’s assertion that hope is powerful enough to not only endure through despair but also to ward off even that which seems inevitable. The entire cast surviving (as heavily implied in the epilogue, not invented for DR3) proves this point perfectly because it’s not punitive; the students’ recovery and bonds with one another are stronger than AI Junko’s plot to sink them into despair, because buying into the dichotomy doesn’t mean simply accepting that awful things happen to stoke. It’s so much better than them just dying out of respect for permanence of death.
Just gonna butt in early on while watching and state that the “Ultimate” title is basically a mistranslation by NIS In the unofficial Japanese sub from SomethingAwful *have fun falling down the rabbit hole that is danganronpa internet history if curious to what the hell I’m talking abt* the titles where translated as Super HIGHSCHOOL level, SHSL, if you’ve ever dipped a toe in the Fandom you’ve definitely heard that. Which is apparently far closer to the original Japanese namesake The trend of weird changes from simple names to entire character archetypes is something the english versions are very infamous for at this point, especially V3. I can’t attest fully with many more examples, but just look it up. I think Kokichi and Gonta might as well be different characters even just from the decisions in dubbing them.
It's been 10 years since the games started being localized and I still despise the decisions so much. It will always be SHSL to me. I refer to the characters by their last names still and not the stupid nicknames the dub gives them. Am I petty? Yes.
@@cosmicspacething3474 Gonta is not a caveman. At all. He speaks entirely normally, just in the third person. Ibuki, Monaca, Tenko and Angie do this as well in the original Japanese, but Gonta is the only one who got the caveman treatment. I don't know the Kokichi thing though.
@@misirtere9836 i think it's that the english version adds more exclamation marks to his dialogue, and his english voice actor is way more maniacal. similar thing goes for komaeda, who sounds way more sincere and calm in the japanese voiceover, but he sounds like "A Very Loud And Somewhat Sarcastic Dude" in the english dub.
the way i see it, the V3 ending was literally just tsumugi lying because she makes so many obvious contraditions and theres actually a lot of evidence, but if anything... that just proves your point lmao
Haven’t finished the video yet, but for Ishimaru the English translation of his title is weird. In Japanese it’s “Public Morals Committee Member”, which is a much different vibe than wat us English speakers got. I wish they went with more literal translations for some things.
I can definitely relate to the mind-numbingness of the editing process! I just put this video on while cooking earlier and you got a very smooth style. Looking forward to binging some more when I have more time.
10 seconds in when i heard him say he likes his stories slow-burn character driven narratives with compelling world building i immediately thought of a dozen anime/manga he most probably doesn't know
No mention of how DR3's Future Arc goes on to kill Kyoko with the bracelet only for her to be revived by Mikan at the end of the Hope episode? I'd personally say that's the culmination of Danganronpa not committing.
Something you seemed to missed is that you don't only need to figure out the mystery and the culprit you also have to convince a group of idiot teenagers you are correct while simultaneously getting fought against by the previously mentioned culprit.
42:18 nononono don't just brush over that, that part in particular bothered me . Shouldn't have her body been crushed in the first game ? How on earth are any of these reminants getting their hands on her body parts???
The answer to that is that, at least for the first game, what we see in the executions is likely highly dramatized over what actually happens. Like sure, Mondo could realistically be killed by centrifugal forces in a motorcycle cage, but his body couldn’t really be liquified into a tiny tub of butter. Similarly, Junko couldn’t literally survive each character’s executions in sequence and be totally fine to the point she was able to bare a giddy smile until that crusher finishes her off. Of course, that’s just my interpretation.
Disclaimer: this comment is written after watching only up to the THH section. I played THH after it went onto Game Pass and years of it being recommended to me (I like Ace Attorney and Among Us). I don't like anime or the horror genre and this series is one of the only pieces of media I've consumed that fits into either of those categories. Went into it blind. When I got to the Junko part I was so confused on how they write something so ridiculous that I had to play the rest of the series. My theory for how Alter Ego saved Makoto, is that it is also a worm, as well as an AI, so when Kyoto and Makoto connect it to the school network, it spread to as many devices as it could as a defense mechanism. That's how I assumed it went when first playing it, so I didn't question when it saved Makoto. I did question why it didn't saved Kyoto when she was executed in the exact same way.
@@InYourFace7861 No, I'm not too fond of visual novels, at least Spike Chunsoft's (I would like Dangan v3 if they gave proper titles to the characters (cough Angie cough) and didn't use the 3-6 as a writer's vent) and the AA sequel trilogy (I did like the AA original and prequel trilogy, though). I've watched a bit of someone playing ZTD and it looked like trash, one of the few things I liked about THH is it's art-style and presentation. THH had all the negative stereotypes about anime, with the exception of bad English voice acting. The English voice acting was actually great. It also did better at the investigation sections than AA, IMO. But the class trails have constant mini-games that have nothing to do with explaining what happened or debating with the other jurors, with the exception of the manga puzzle as a summary of the case, rebuttal showdown from the 2nd game, and debate scrum from the 3rd.
i think the reason why alter ego saved makoto and not kyoko is because makoto is the ultimate lucky student,, basically he just got lucky and kyoko didnt.
@25jinightcord it's simpler than that, because the kyoko ending never happened, it was just what makoto thought would happen if he exposed kyoko. Spoilers for ace attorney 2 but in that game if you get the bad ending the game sends you back to the main menu, it doesn't show phoenix in blue text saying "wait, this evidence is wrong" because the ending did happen but it got the gta v treatment where only the good ending was canon. That's not to say it was a bad call since the good endings for both phoenix wright and gta v fit them more than their other ones.
The one thing I disagree with you on is the "resurrection" of the DR2 classmates. If they just suddenly appeared in the anime then it would certainly feel like an asspull to show how great Izuru was, but the last scene of DR2 is about how Hajime and the others decided not to choose Junko's path, which would have had their friends brought back with Junko's personality, or Makoto's path, which would have had them accepting their friend's deaths. They instead chose to believe that their friends could still be saved even though they died in the simulation and they were using the emergency shutdown protocol. In the context of DR2, I think it's a fantastic ending, but the message of holding out hope for an uncertain future is incredibly diminished when the anime just goes "yup, they're alive again."
In a lot of ways, DR2 is like Metal Gear Solid 2, and a lot of my problems with DR3 and MGS4 is how they both continue to expand on stories that are infinitely better when the endings were ambiguous. MGS4 eventually led to Revengeance though, and Danganronpa doesn't have a character action game where you fight with Truth Blades
You're making me want to recommend Shu Takumi games Like Ace Attorney and Ghost Trick Ace Attorney is a murder mystery visual novel And Ghost Trick is a puzzle game mystery novel I love these games dearly! And they scratch my brain with how shocking or silly the plot twists are!!
I LOVE both of these games, I don't exactly remember how I found out about Ghost Trick, but I'm glad I did because it's amazing, i actually decided to play it again (and it's rare for me to replay a game I already finished) a few months ago, and even after finishing it again I still didn't wanna drop it yet, something about it just keeps pulling me back
As a big fan of the original continuity: God you are so big-brained. Like. I've been trying so hard to explain my issues with the series outside of "The brainwashing cheapened everything about the original games" and "Why does this series only get me invested in a character right before they die? This is bad writing when it happens more than once or twice" but you managed to put a lot of it to words. There's a lot I disagree with, some of it being because I initially engaged with the series via a fan-translation which got across certain aspects more faithfully to the intent, but there's a lot MORE I agree with. I'm actually a big fan of anime, and I have a *lot* of tolerance for Anime Bullshit. The series in general is also right up my alley because I love morbidity and cartoon gore (I'm really, REALLY weak wrt realistic gore though, to the point I start crying and leave the room) and I just love the *fun* anime bullshit. (Read as: the stuff that *isn't* sexualising the characters.) And yet I am one of those fans who, for all the love I have for the series, *hates* it so much because of all the failed potential. One thing I do enjoy is that the SDR2 cast do live - it was in fact foreshadowed in the end of the gameI actually feel their survival *adds* to things, that their survival aids the 'hope' theme, because it was an act of trying to make the world a better place, against the desires of those who wanted them to die for their crimes instead of being rehabilitated, that gave them the second chance. Their survival doesn't cheapen the game imo... What cheapens the game is how they seem ultimately unaffected by basically anything that happened in the game. I hate how they all look so healthy and totally not like they'd spent most of the last couple of years as Superbosses roaming the deadlands of the world, like nothing that happened between the first game and their showing back up happened. I hate how none of them seems incredibly traumatised. I hate how they're buddy-buddy in that "I have never experienced anything awful in my life" way. I hate how they look and act like there was never an apocalypse, let alone how they act like they never had any part in it, outside of being all "hey bestie come to the island with us so we can live apart from the terror we helped cause". The fact that they are so *unbothered* by everything, that they are not in any way devoted to undoing as much of the harms they did as possible, content to just live life on an island away from everything awful... It cheapens everything, *including* the fact that they're alive - which would be perfectly in line with the changing themes had their continued existence been portrayed in any meaningful way.
Also, as a fan of Yukizome: You're so freaking right. I admit that I loved her dying in the first episode, and it being revealed she was a massive player in this. Hell, I actually *like* the idea that the killers are the victims themselves. It was something I didn't see coming, and if they'd actually *done the work* to make it feel well done, it could have been properly novel. It would have subverted the expectations set up by the games, that it's an actual killer at play, and if done right would have been *great* if you ask me... But it was hamfistedly handled at best. If they *had* to take the route of this all being some cheap brainwashing plot, they *should* have had yukizome being behind all the deaths. If they'd kept with the story told by the games (that Junko *lured* people into ultimate despair) and had where the brainwashing thing involved physical action (like with Yukizome's brainwashing), I feel that they could have finagled something still worth watching. Say Yukizome has been working with Mitarai this whole time to make the video that causes people to end themselves, and that at some point she *physically* brainwashed the elderly headmaster guy, because she was taught how. THEN I feel they could have gone with the "there is no killer, lol" twist. But they didn't EARN it? If they were going to go with the "everyone was brainwashed Lol" idea they should have had her be the mastermind, possibly working with the headmaster. Instead they did basically everything to make the whole anime as disappointing as possible? As for Monaka: Honestly I would have loved how she was handled in the anime if everything else had been written well. Her just. Being so very bored with existing and just going where her whims took her would have been pretty in line with how bonkers things could get without detracting from the series had, you know, the rest of the anime not been what it was. Anyway, tl;dr - I actually agree on most things. The few things I disagree on I disagree on due mostly to a different reading of the material available and the themes. But the thing I agree on the most is that the anime is a hot garbage heap that removed any and all teeth from what came before it.
i didnt even start the video yet but to me danganronpa is one of those series that isnt actually that good, but because of nostalgia, you look back at it fondly. danganronpa was basically my life back in middle school okay after watching the video i think you should definitely play ultra despair girls because it is simultaneously the best and worst game in the series
I love me some Jojo but yeah, Stardust Crusaders is kinda just Enemy Stand user of the week until we reach DIO and a few character threads get resolution along the way. At 48 episodes it basically gives the same experience as a Super Sentai series with fewer giant robots but just as much posing for the camera. However I need to counter one statement. Joseph Joestar does not have an Oedipus Complex. In the screenshot shown he doesn't realize Lisa Lisa is his mother, as far as he knows she's just his hot teacher. It's the same joke as "Haha Luke and Leia kissed but they were actually siblings" and the only people who say those two wanna do the Alabama Square Dance are fanfic writers. And as others have stated, the majority of weirdness comes as a result of the official translations. "Ultimate" is a bad substitute for "Super High School Level," Moral Compass is a bizarre translation of "Discipline Committee Member" etc etc
14:23 In the dub of the April Fools Fangame Danganronpa Rebirth called Danganronpa Rebirth Voices (which was sadly cancelled), there was a character (Saiji Rokudou) who was the Ultimate Undertaker. Just goes to show that Danganronpa fangames will always be better than the canon games.
The amount of effort Danganronpa Fangame creators/teams put into their projects is honestly amazing! Easily my favorite part of the fandom. Also Mitsunari and Marin from Rebirth both have such adorable designs. Even though it’s canned it brought some really fun character concepts.
The thing about V3 is that Kodaka basically made it to shut up the fandom because EVERYONE was whining about getting another danganronpa game and he wanted to make it meta and ruin it for everyone so they would stop asking for more games, since he was trying to seperate himself from the danganronpa series and make a name for himself outside of it. At least this is what I heard from people in the fandom so take that with a grain of salt.
Sounds like cap bc he has mentioned that the ending isn’t supposed to be an insult to the player and that it was the longest game to develop, so why would he be against making it?
take this with a massive heap of salt. it's pure copium from the fandom for the game's ending. V3's ending is a (badly executed) commentary on fiction affecting reality, which ironically is exactly what's happening with this story about Kodaka, coloring people's ideas of him
6:20 ok but right off the bat bro demonstrates beautifully that he has no idea what he's even criticizing. In Japanese, furthering a conversation by repeating words the other person said is considered polite and is hands down the most realistic thing about danganronpa. It also works really well to make very clear what a question you may have is about rather than just going "whAT dO yOu mEaN?" It's literally just annoying to foreigners and i don't know why none of you can get over it. how has nobody annoyed by this ever thought to use google bro😭
@@SILENTSORA-cw9mj yes. Entry level japanese is also very nice as a tourist or abroad student because the most organic way to phrase a question in Japanese is to expect the other person to finish your sentence. For example, when you want to know where the train station is, you commonly say "Excuse me... the train station is..." and the other person would respond with "Across the street"
This is why I've found myself more fond of danganronpa fan stories now. Quite a few good ones have committed to certain themes and remained consistent in quality. DRA1, SDRA2, The After, Eden's Garden, and Despair Time are examples that I think have a stronger story or potential to be a stronger story (as some are not done yet) than canon danganronpa.
Okay, this really bothered me, and for a second I thought I was going insane, so I had to look it up. The reveal that the DR2 characters that died in the simulation is not from the anime, but from DR2's epilogue. Makoto, Byakuya, and Kirigiri are talking about how the ones who survived are staying behind on the island, in order to try and wake up their sleeping friends, and Makoto all but says that they're going to succeed. So that copout lies entirely on DR2, not the anime. The anime is still dogshit though.
Don't really agree with the "no consequence in trials" argument. Cause how the hell would the game actually play if it was possible to fail? This game is extremely long, being forced back into the investigation because you failed some sort of clue, or restart the entire trial because you got something wrong - no thank you. It would be tedious. The point of these games is to showcase the story, such ridiculous gameplay features wouldn't blend well
This video does Visual Novel's so dirty. I've only played a few (FSN is my favorite so that probably says a lot) but even I know that most Visual Novels have wide, sweeping choices that can affect the outcome of the plot without necessarily leading to a bad or early end. I mean, in Tsukihime even little things like how much time you spend with a character can change all sorts of things. And in other visual novels, like Mahoyo, they're completely linear and moreso akin to just straight up a novel, and therefore also don't really bear the criticism he levies.
@@monke3075 Well, given how we're literaly told "actually I decided not to play everything/get the full context and wiki pages have too many words" after over an hour of video + a decent chunk of the first part being "visual novel bad" I can kinda get what they mean.
@@godzyllaa fair,but I don't think trying to understand the story will help either because of how messy and complicated it is,I think it would've just let him be more confused(like me when I actually tried to understand the whole thing)it was semi-understandable before danganronpa3,and then the anime added so much random bullshit and ruined the well established themes or ideas that I might as well not consider the whole thing canon,I think the guy does make a good point on 'danganronpa never commits to it's ideas or try to think of how it makes sense' which would be a good critique for the D3 anime,but for the games,while it's still true, it's not that bad because even the game doesn't take itself that seriously
@@monke3075The story isn't mess and complicated at all lol. It's pretty straightforward. This is a video about a game series made by someone who didn't actually play them all. And it's clear he has misunderstood a lot about the games and is flat out wrong about some things.
9:31 well they don’t really do much with that the characters that die or get executed yet maybe one or two mentions things never get talked about again
i was gonna watch only a few minutes of the video and then get some breakfast, but unfortunately i couldn't commit to that, and i ended up watching the whole essay instead. as to be expected of a video from the ultimate anime hater sojournerkai.
1:00:58 so I wanted to say that on some level the anime retcons Danganronpa:Zero, a light novel that also explores Hopes Peak prior to the events of the first game. …I like DR0 better
It's funny how Umineko manages to be a way better (and longer) Danganronpa despite being a kinetic Visual Novel (that means it has absolutely no gameplay, you only read the text and enjoy the amazing music u.u)
This is why I hate people calling visual novels a genre. They're not. They're a MEDIUM in which stories are told. It'd be like saying oh I hate books, they're my least favorite genre Umineko and Danganronpa are two different genres OF visual novel
If I had the time, resources, and team, I would make Danganronpa: Brotherhood. Danganronpa is frustrating because there’s good to be found, but it's quite literally held together with duct tape and hope. GamingMagic13 gave the writing a more thorough thrashing than I have the cognitive ability to, but I have my own grievances and it is KILLING me that my own fixes will never be made canon. I mean, look. What was the latest addition to this franchise, and possibly the LAST one? A goddamn gacha game with the thinnest story possible. Ugh. Edit 7/3/24: Ok so me and Gamingmagic...kiiiinda aren't on good terms anymore lmfao, so I'm running a retraction on that part of my comment. I still really want a Danganronpa Brotherhood, though. For Kirumi. FOR KIRUUUUMMIIIIIII!
It's not just GamingMagic13. I recommend Ce53 and his analysis of danganronpa. Though warning there is strong language. He does make some good points if you look past it.
i already feel very negative about like the first minute of the video. actually i probably dislike this whole video, but just wanted to say even tho i hate it you put a lot of effort into it probably and you are surly a nice guy. so keep doing videos [im probably not even the target audience in this case anyway]
i basically finished the video now, i do not agree with most in the video [i did find a few jokes funny tho] the only thing i dislike about danganronpa is the anime and its tentency to retcon certain things [the light novels explain a lot of things better]
ITS HERE! THE LONG AWAITED DANGANRONPA VIDEO IS HERE! And after dead meat doing a kill count of Danganronpa, coincidence? I think not! Love the video kai! And can't wait for the next episode
I mean, I like Danganronpa, but I know (as any Danganronpa fan does) that is flawed and has SO MANY THINGS you can criticise... still, I disagree with many of your points (most of the ones tide to the fact this is a visual novel... the format of most visual novels are more about you witnessing the events oppose to being part of the world. I understand is not a format everyone will enjoy, but if you are playing a game of this type you should expect this type of feeling, at least in my opinion. Either way, I think theres other points that can be made about Danganronpas gameplay apart from the one-sided experience, but whatevs), but the only thing I actually wanted to underline is in terms of Chiakis character. It is made clear from the end of the game that the Chiaki we interacted with was simply not the Chiaki of the anime, its just a program with her face to help the rehabilitation process for the remnants. Her character, from the start, was dead (infact, when I watched the anime, I was dissapointed in the fact Chiaki was actually a real person, someone that had excisted and interacted with the cast. I never really liked Chiaki, so, I was just annoyed I was gonna have to see her more lol. Its clear it was a change they wanted to made because of Chiakis popularity as character, and tbh theres truly nothing wrong with said decision, Im just a hater). So yeah, I dont think her being the "only one that isnt saved by the power of Kamakura" can be actually pointed as another time Danganronpa didnt commit, on the contrary, killing her was the only way they COULD commit, still being faithful to the fact in the game is stated Chiaki DOESNT exist (considering Nagito didnt see her picture in the yearbook, reason why he though she was a remnant at the start), but also letting her fans have more content about her (and, I guess on a certain extent, also kinda making sense of why she had that appereance (?), like, giving her look a purpose, I dont know if that makes sense).
Me when i don't understand danganronpa, it's continuity and plot Me when i play a genre i don't like and then whine about not liking the game Me when i'm a genwunner
I'm about 35 mins in, but it sounds like what you wanted was Ace Attorney. That game has a lot of what you liked about Danganronpa 2, and doesn't have a lot of what you hated
