Breaking the game with /recorder and then breaking it again with the fumble mechanics vis-a-vis /switch macro is worthy of the Mad Hatter. Prior to /recorder, the server allowed AutoHotKey but you were not permitted to use delays. This essentially prevented the "always shield out except for the 200 milliseconds to perform a 2h/DW style" from working with AHK. It was still powerful, but the simple fact is that *THE EDEN DEVS* gave the players something immensely more powerful and abusable. So, instead of scrapping it they... what?.. make it so you can't switch weapons without fumbling?!?!? First of all, this *ONLY ADVERSELY AFFECTS MELEE CLASSES* -- All the other classes that don't use melee styles *CAN KEEP ON ABUSING IT!!!* So, not really a fix at all. Second, one of the most enjoyable aspects of playing an otherwise boring class like a Blademaster was coming up with /qbinds and AHK scripts that allowed a player to use a wide range of weapons depending on the situation. For example, switching to the appropriate legendary weapon to maximize your damage vs an opponent's armor type, or switching out your celerity proc weapon for a different one that would do more damage once you got a celerity proc to go off, or (of course) just the good ole fashioned switch to shield for slam then back to dual wield, etc. But now, you're just begging for an exasperating string of fumbles if you play like this. Accordingly, shield is all but gone from the Blademaster meta anymore, and forget about carrying several legendary weapons and *USING YOUR SKILL AND EXPERIENCE AT DAOC TO IDENTIFY THE ENEMY CLASS/ARMOR TYPE SO YOU CAN PLAY BETTER!!!* Instead, we have to stick with one offhand and, at most, two mainhands and use the baked in hotkey for 1h or 2h slot, and respec to 50 CD, 50 Blades, 28 Parry (or whatever). I'd like to point out that the shield skill has been available to the Blademaster class *SINCE RELEASE.* So, how can the Eden Devs possibly justify an absurd remedial measure--which doesn't even fix the problem entirely, but rather only nerfs melee classes--that erases almost a quarter-century of viability to a settled, balanced, widely accepted skill spec and corresponding playstyle? And how can they do this as a result of their own fuck up? A fuck up which was entirely unnecessary as AHK is widely available to anyone who cares to download it for free and figure out how to use it? If there ever was a time for Phoenix 2 to announce a launch, this is it. The fumble shenanigans, of course, are at the most recent end of a very long list of customizations the Eden Devs have implemented that have left us with such a dysfunctional, Frankenstein version of DAoC. There are some improvements and nice changes, too, naturally, but their propensity for tinkering and imposing such aberrant, counterproductive, and insidious tweaks have alienated what is likely the majority of the population out there who still care to play this game. And their dwindling server stats bear this out (along with other causes, too, but this is likely the strongest driving force in people quitting sooner than they otherwise would have). Sorry for the rant, but, as most of us know, you can't do this on the Eden forums or in game. So, my two cents. I appreciate your channel and videos on DAoC. You're thoughtful and inquisitive and, as far as I can tell, concerned about keeping the game alive and well.
Hi there thanks for the long post and your kind words! there's a few misconceptions however as I mentioned in closing of the video it's important for people speak their mind on this issue: - A lot of the shield swap footage used in this video is AHK; the 'shield out' mechanic worked fine (albeit slightly worse) - Fumble doesn't only affect melee classes, casters fumble spells too (e.g. when swapping myths or weapons for debuff bonus) - You can still swap weapons on BM, once every swing cycle which is sufficient for 95% of situations. Yes it's annoying if you mess up; I mention this in the video as for Phoenix, I think it had superior 8v8 balance however inferior everything else; their product is far far behind what Eden offers (and people take for granted) now. The grass is always greener, and covid gaming nostalgia is strong
Played this game the year it came out. You didnt need to cheat or do anything weird the balance was so broken it was laughable. Patch after patch...Invis stealthers one shotting from a mile away, nerfing magic damage with resist gear to the point certain damage type were doing 20% damage. Then came enchanters with ranged, chain snaring pets that would solo entire groups...clip through a wall to avoid targeting and they literally couldnt be killed even when like 10 people showed up. 3 months of not changing that and I left, trash ruined game.
hey man, there's 22,000 people in Eden discord playing the game 23 years after it was released - I don't it can be called trash/ruined! Lots of balance issues existed but it generally got better over time
@@SmtN No doubt there were some select classes etc over time you could get some play out of, and I know there were people that played it, but it was the only game to do RvRvR combat. They played it for that not because it was anything other than a flaming dumpster of bad balance for too many years. Even today, not much else out there, if there were it'd be dead.
How do people enjoy playing with AKH & recorder is a mystery to me. A huge part of the fun of this game is the richness of the tools you have at your disposal. For me, picking the right one at the right moment IS the game. Anything else is just a tastless version of it.
Ask WoW players if they are cool with how Add-ons affected that game over it's life span. I think many will say they wish they weren't as required as they became.
@@williambourque926 Yep I agree but I think the issue also for wow is that it would be hard to prevent (and replicated with external tools if completely banned)
I play both Ultima Online and Dark Age of Camelot - both of which are struggling with the same issues revolving around 3rd party tool usage to fill gaps in the original client. The problem is, it's just entirely unappealing to play with. It's a game that is already hard enough for some folks, then knowing I have the burden of learning an entire macro system... I just go and play something else entirely. UO: Outlands has done a good job at trying to mitigate the issue, and is working to turn off scripting in anything PvP related sometime this year hopefully. I don't know what the answer is, but it certainly ruins the experience for some of us.
Wish the team could manually overhaul the clunky melee system, or at least combine style chains with something recorder-like in the background. Put all pally chants on one skill for instance? Then Bob will be happy but abuse isn't possible (theoretically)?
Neither AHK or recorder is needed. You end up with ridiculousness like the clips you played. Looks like garbage and ruins gameplay. Hard enough making a solid template and now you need absurd amount of items to have recorder swap in at a moments notice for a given attack/spell/situation just to stay competitive. Do away with both. Takes more skill to do that things manually and limits the BS that was never intended
The root of the problem always will be the /switch command that comes from phoenix wanting to create a qol feature for assassins. The poison system has been revamped, the only remaining aspect to /switch is the abuse opportunities it creates. Recorder is a beautiful feature that works perfectly for its original intent; firing various abilities at the same time. However, the presence of /switch is the source of abuse, not recorder. I still don't understand why the devs still keep /switch in the game. The counter arguments to removing /switch provided by the devs were ... Original at best.
Unfortunately without switch you go back to people making AHK mouse macros (drag and drop). But maybe there is a way to block that ingame when the target is in combat? it's a super complex problem to fix
@@SmtN What was the proportion of players doing mouse drag/drop scripts in ahk? I'd be very confident saying it is much lower than what we are seeing with the recorder/switch combo.
No gear swaps in combat wouldn’t be hard to implement. If it’s equipped no problem. Unhappy about shields? Put a 2 second GCD on blocking after swapping to shield from a 2h weapon or DW. Fumbling is probably the least fun way to manage it.
@@Cruzcamp0 there's no solution that doesn't have either a) ahk workaround or b) curtails valid, manual play unfortunately e.g. your 'no gear swaps in combat' nerfs almost every melee playstyle
Why not just bin the recorder feature and the custom /switch macro, promote the use of auto hotkey for multi-bind qol, and call it a day. I understand it's hard to accept projects failed, and to do so requires a bit of swallowing pride, but the team attempted to fix the problem of people claiming ahk wasn't fair by giving everyone an in game solution to raising the floor and it just created more problems than the misconceived of cheating that existing prior. The Eden devs have brought a lot of nice qol changes to the game. Being able to create item /use icons with cooldown timers is one of the best qol changes ever made. But meddling with combat mechanics isn't necessary. The reason most people are still playing daoc after 25 years is due to the combat mechanics.
@@SmtN Of course people using software to double bind keys is going to give someone advantage over someone who isn't. But it's accessible to everyone, and isn't the core problem, or perceived problem. I'm not sure that there is a way, at least legally, to utilize AHK to perform the custom /switch macros. If a lot of the pain is coming from people swapping in items and myths specifically for bonuses with each spell, or a shield on a DW class, how would you go about that using AHK without the /switch macro feature? If the pain is coming from people having shield up time while performing 2hand styles, that's a different situation, to which they need to be extremely careful with how they address as people have been manually swapping to shield in between 2hand styles since nearly the beginning of the game. If that's Eden dev's main concern then they should carefully look in to handling how to rate limit the swap, but introducing RNG through fumble, to something that's been accomplished manually for years isn't a great way to handle an aspect of the games core combat mechanics. Adding a fumble punishment RNG mechanic as a catch all solution is not a viable solution. It's also punishing those who have used swapping weapon as a way to stop action/stop attack. It also impacts any player with any class that utilizes the 1 hand and the 2hand/ranged slot. Players could be reading a situation, assume that their next best play is going to be to use their 1hand abilities, but then something happens that another players does, impacting their decision, so they swap to their 2hand/range slot. Should they be punished for reading the fight and dynamically adjusting their next decision? This can be even more exaggerated with with harp classes, like a minstrel, or even as basic of a situation of a healer swapping to a 2hand weapon to kill a pet but the pet dies to something else/timer before they get a chance to swing, then swap back to heal and the heal has a chance to fumble? They need to be clear and direct with implementations that affect core game mechanics. In this situation it doesn't seem like they are trying to solve for software utilization differences amongst the pop, it instead feels like they have a core disliking to the way the game is designed and they think they can do better. But with RNG punishments...heh
@@deam0155 People will just macro their mouse to drag weapons (with ahk) /switch if the command is disabled. Clunky but people have done it in the past when the command didn't exist. As for the shield/2h mechanic - yes it seems like Eden staff are taking a stand on 'no 2h dps with 1h defence' and want to change what has historically been a mechanic. I can understand why you might think it's not Eden's 'place' to mess with that, but your solution doesn't find a way to differentiate between manual and scripted swaps anyway so it's somewhat irrelevant. For the rest of your post I agree normal play is punished, it's just entirely subjective whether you prefer the current situation, or a situation where 5% of players have a huge advantage (which is the outcome of your suggestion)
I enjoy the recorder stuff, but not the fumble... makes playing with legendary weapons difficult. There's a video of a nightshade running around with a shield unless they're attacking and that's hilarious to me.
funny how people who didnt use AHK before got memed on.... so in response Recorder was released..... which actually resulted in the 25% effectiveness bonus you were mentioning in the video to those using(or abusing)... however you look at it. so in a way it comes full circle, because the original thing non-AHK players were getting memed on for, became an actual reality in-game with recorder =) funny stuff
@@SmtN "autohotkey kicked me from the grp and stole my dragon loot" "yea i know man i was beating this rr15 champion but then he turned on autohotkey and stunned me for 45 seconds" - well fear not gentlemen, you shall suffer no longer....
They are the ones who leave the believers and take the disbelievers as friends. Do they seek honor and glory with them, while all honor and glory belongs to Allah? ~ Nisa 139
