David and Dan's Final Slap in the Face to Fantasy Fans 

Andrew Push Best Comment!

@Anti-Federalist 1776 One of the Targaryens needs to win the throne either Aegon Jon or Dany, After reading Fire and blood I so want them back on top

The scene where Dany sets sail for Westeros is where D&D's source material from GRR Martin's books ended. D&D have been winging it ever since.

What books?

Andrew Push "We kinda forgot that a story needs to be good"

saturn580 ikr

"it is known"

Eddie LM Yep.

@Dongs Kindly explain why you think GRRM is a hack?

@Dongs Sorry my apologies but George is 70+ years old trying to complete arguably the most complicated story of all time, and he can do so in his own time, he doesnt owe us anything! I just wish him a healthy life and ill be waiting for A Dream of Spring!

Every time they they speak as if they are fucking two geniuses

Both are Nobs

It really is. They have completely let the success of the show go to their heads. They've taken credit for far too much. Season 5+ was all them, and those are the seasons fans have all the problems with. They're skilled in adapting material, not writing original content. And it's a miracle HBO could hook them up with such great production talent and they could find such a cast, because they admitted they did not know what they were doing. God, these two still piss me off.

Easier to be arrogant than to admit fault.

@Dongs I think its both their faults. I don't know what HBO offered him, but I'm sure it was good. And I know that Martin always wanted it to be a TV show, so I get why he went for it. But he way overestimated himself and regardless of his wants, he never should've let anyone touch it before it was done. And David and Dan should've cared enough to remain accurate to the source material and admit when they knew they couldn't do it anymore, so someone else could take over and finish the show properly.

They brought the books to life and created a great series. Whiners gonna whine.

@@alexnorth3393 Do you have ANY evidence for those insane statements. D and D did not create the world or characters nor did they build the sets nor do they know anything about cinematography. Where are you getting this that THEY brought life to the world GRRM made???

@@alexnorth3393 it's okay that you're a dumbass. Its alright.

@@darkthorpocomicknight7891 well who would've thought about it if they didn't haha

@@andretyr3733 no you are, jackass 🙄

Exactly those franchises make billions - not GOT. I wonder why dumbed things down ... $$$$$$$$

Star Wars doesn't have that much magic except for the force and the new Star Wars movies suck anyway

@@Matrix27594 The magic in SW is the tech aswell.

@@Matrix27594 The force is complete and utter mysticism.

@@Matrix27594 lol, space wizards do not have magic

I have not finished reading the books, i honestly just started Clash of Kings. But my buddy who has read them all told me that seasons 1-4 (basically the seasons we all love and cherish) are almost EXACTLY the books. Already having finished the GOT book i can see changes made in that as well but nothing story shattering, even some things they added work really well. But then DND said screw it, and everybody noticed. Thats why im reading the books now, caise I deserve the story GRRM wrote.

The first seasons are just as enjoyable if you haven't or have no interest in reading the novels. You'll get so much more out of the books though except maybe the Mountain Vs. the Viper.

@@christophercortez7191 Season 1 is very much like the books. Season 2 is fairly similar but begins to differ substantially, the smaller cast of characters begins to show. Season 3 is faithful, but begins to diverge substantially. Season 4 is similar to season 3 in that regard.

Bright Glory I consider the S4 finale the proper end of GOT.

@@DonkeycowProductions yeah i heard that the red wedding is essentially half way through Storm of Swords. So i guess book 4 and 5 are the ones they shat on. Cause even as someone who has only watched the show, even I could tell it felt different. But i will always stand that seasons 1-4 is some of the best television to ever grace my face!

D&D kinda forgot about us, but we didn't forget about them!

I print them out and take them to the shooting range.

Not to mention it even got to the point where even the term D&D will get mixed up with the Strategy game Dungeons and dragons

killer92173 my teenage kids play the game, and now refer to it as "the Good D&D".

@@cthiessen8707 D&D should be thrown into a Dungeon for what they did to the Dragons.

Yeah, it always seems like those of us who desire more intelligent, subtle and nuanced media always have to suffer so that it can 8nstead appeal to the lowest common denominator (typical idiots that watch sitcoms)

@@post-leftluddite Hey, I love an intelligent storyline that I have think about with nuance , but theres nothing wrong with a sitcom every now and then just to unwind.

"Lowest common denominator," just means the dumbest person in the room.

@@ezramalzbender7934 yeah but you shouldn't go and change every story to that level

Basically we’ll remove elements that the focus test groups don’t like, try to please everyone and ultimately make a mediocre product.

And then they didn't even get the disney contract in the end, SAD

Aaron Binkley Thankfully they lost the star wars movies they were supposed to make, there is some justice in the end

SAD!

I actually think Disney hired them to sabotage Netflix. For what other reason someone would basically spent a quarter of a billion dollars in two dumpsters on fire?

Where did you find this 100% accurate transcript?

"Got tired" => Reasonable assuming so many years passed and the raw material wasn't even theirs anyway. "Didn't hire more writers" => Still, would be reasonable considering (e.g) GRM wouldn't want anyone else to finish his work. "They didn't see the value in considering other peoples' opinions" => Still, if **your** work was the case, that could be reasonable IF your goal wasn't just selling, but writing what you truly desire. Can you blame Nietzsche for not conforming? "Didn't understand the books" => Very few and still, only those with the capacity of time are in a position to truly understand a masterpiece. So, those words could still be reasonable. But do you know guys why Dumb and Dumber are not reasonable? They got tired and thus decide to drop their quality/quantity of their effort into the show but at the same time they are unwilling to hire any more writers, because they want all the fame and credit solely to themselves. They got tired, sloppy and self-isolated but when the bells rung and the hardcore fan base sounded the alarm they didn't see the value in it, because those self-righteous with low self-esteem pricks couldn't face the fact that the success of the show wasn't theirs in the first place. Which most probably fueled their ego and made them go even beyond in terms of "ORIGINAL CONTENT" and add some bullshit of their own, in some sort of self assessment. And when those got ridiculed by the community, they got defensive and evasive. They didn't understand the books, which were in their nature UNCONVENTIONAL and instead of trying to accommodate somehow, they figured that going all in through the most conventional way possible was the right answer. If those 2-3 last seasons of GoT weren't GoT and were the first seasons of a random show, I bet my house that the reaction would be positive by the normies. What I am saying is that those two idiots could actually have a base of reasonable defense. But those points are invalidated through their own actions and egocentricism since, truthfully, the normie fan base is as much hypocritic in nature as they are, with the only exception they didn't ruin the most successful show in history and got paid their asses weight in gold in return.

Sounds like my country's Government

Not to mention they were just too greedy and too proud to hand the reigns over to new show-runners. Brats, both of them. I'm GLAD their slated projects were killed in their cribs after the conclusion of the show.

@@DaredeviIGR ""Didn't hire more writers" => Still, would be reasonable considering (e.g) GRM wouldn't want anyone else to finish his work. " They didn't work with GRM post season 4, and they finished his work anyhow, so no that's no reasonable and doesn't make any sense at all. "Still, if *your* work was the case, that could be reasonable IF your goal wasn't just selling, but writing what you truly desire. Can you blame Nietzsche for not conforming?" Non sensical and doesn't address the issue. "Very few and still, only those with the capacity of time are in a position to truly understand a masterpiece. So, those words could still be reasonable." What's not reasonable is not consulting the guy who wrote the books.

​@@DaredeviIGR😂😂😂 where is your common sense? It was not event their creation, they didnt considere the books author directions. Any of what you wrote is reasoable, what you wrote is boring no se se stuff just as season 7 and 8.

nunouno001 It’s not really delusion if it’s subsidized and enabled. :(

They're leagues better than GRRM

@@mattjindrak sureeeee

On the flip side, fantasy shows have historically done poorly on TV. The boldest thing on network TV in terms of fantasy now is Emergence on ABC and it's probably going to get cancelled without finishing its first season. The ratings for that show are just horrible for a main four network and they always were. The general audience wants simplicity. If they have to learn a character's name or follow a plot point, they will switch to something else.

@antiami in terms of being disgusting lazy bastards obviously, that's the only thing that could make sense(unless fuzzy is an idiot)

I hear you mate.

Exactly.

Yes!

Couldn't agree more my friend!

This is one of those comments I wish I could like a few more times.

That is exactly what they were implying

They are saying they dumbed it down so old people and jocks can follow.

This show is full of sex and murder. How can they think this appeal to children simply because it's also fantasy???

@@pyramidion5911 I know a lot of old people who read more fantasys then me so whos it really for?

Probably not children in general, they're probably thinking of greasy edgelord teen stoners.

Beautiful summary for the second half of the series.

@@benderisgreat95able If HBO reboots the show, at least from the season where Sand snakes showed up, I won't even mind. GoT died with Oberyn imho.

HBO for real should have fired them when they found out dnd were just gonna make 6 eps and not hire anyone else. huge red flag.

@@kibummmm HBO should have fired them when they kicked the content creator, George RR Martin, off the show

Just ungrateful.

I'm not going to lie, this might be mean, but hearing that they lost the gig (conveniently about a day after this interview) made my day. They threw away this show and their own legacy for nothing.

@@superanimegamer01 wait hold up. What???? For real?? No way , show me a link where it says that. If that's true, that's the best news of the year

@@wythore yup. Here's a link to the original twitter thread that recorded and shared the interview around: twitter.com/ForArya/status/1188186578071556102?s=19 And here's an article saying D&D got dropped from Star Wars:www.google.com/amp/s/deadline.com/2019/10/star-wars-setback-game-of-thrones-duo-david-benioff-d-b-weiss-exit-trilogy-1202771184/amp/ It's also worth noting that within these same couple of days it was ALSO announced that the GoT prequel starring Naomi Watts was cancelled. The Game of Thrones Twitter account promptly went into damage control mode and hastily announced the new Targaryen prequel based on Martin's Fire and Blood book. It was truly a glorious site to behold. I've talked to a lot of people about D&D's oh so convenient firing, and many seem to believe it was because D&D had just scored a $250M deal with Netflix (yes, I know) and that meant being absolutely exclusive to Netflix, no deals with any other studios, networks, etc. That makes complete sense to me, but I personally would like to believe it was at least partly due to how bad season 8 and this interview were. Seriously, if you haven't read through or listened to the interview, please do, you won't believe what you hear.

@@superanimegamer01 thanks!

@@superanimegamer01 they were dropped from Star Wars before signing with Netflix I thought.

Young Donald Trump: *looks at his small loan of a million dollars and cries in envy*

@@markcobuzzi826 🤣🤣🤣🤣 right

LOL seriously... someone should make that into 2 shirts and send that to them. They'd probably not realize it was an insult and wear it around laughing. Assholes.

Agreed. The writing was incompetent at best, they had Cersei outsmarting Tyrion and Varys these last two seasons which makes 0 sense if these guys are considered the smartest political minds in Westeros

Netflix hired them I hear. RIP Netflix.

netflix just wasted $200m worth of shows and films. whoever's responsible for offering dumb and dumber the deal is an idiot.

@@bebos1262 netflix showriters were already shit anyway. Just look at altered carbon, amazing book which spawned a series fit for idiots

Lightning never strikes twice in the same place. These 2 will carry the GOT failure around with them forever and they will never be trusted with a primo project again. They'll probably make money but their big moment is gone. There's no kind of witchcraft that can revive their reputations now.

Yeah, that is sooo cringey, man! Like wtf, are you cheering out loud everytime some character appears?

Wait what wtf I’ve never seen these channels

@@cosuinofdeath Then you're lucky...because it's literally what I envision the mythical "wider audience" looks like.

Totally. And they tried to be George without understanding why he's so good. George always shocks with a grander purpose, and there is a clear line of logic to where you are. D&D just said "subversion is trendy....what is the last thing the audience expects?" They didn't think of the consequences or how the action serves the narrative. And if you watch the behind the scenes stuff for episode 3, Benioff even admits it.

those cringey bar channels would still do those videos no matter what they got lol.

X-Men origins LMAO

Wanking around and convincing themselves they are the best in everything, just hadnt the opportunity to show it. Desperately, they thought adapting the famous book series ASOIAF for television, not for making it epic and successful, just hoping that they can copy Rome somehow and get some money, even if the series wont last longer than the first season. Their qualification was just that they were the first with the insane idea adapting this beloved series with all the high risk of fan backlash, especially regarding the books arent even finished and might not finish in the years to come. But they did not care. The first books were written so clearly and almost cinematically, so adaption was kind of a task for students and just selecting the most important parts for their episodes.

Dan and Dave: "We gave up 10 years of our life!" Regular people: "It is called adulting, and all you did was go to work everyday like everybody else on the planet."

basking in the glow of their own egos most likely

Gave up is hilarious considering they were making the most iconic show on tv that made them household names and they were being paid for. They act like they sacrificed something.

Let them do ad work, it suits their attention span.

I wonder where their cock jokes are going to go next

Force them to work for Kathleen Kennedy for the rest of their careers.

@@JohnSmith-vd6fc oh god... the 3 of them would be horrifying....sheesh...Stephenie Meyer would shit her pants at that notion

I wish they were forced to give back the money they “earned” from HBO.

The Dragon Demands has been ripping these guys apart for years. Look him up on RU-vid and watch his videos. They are very informative.

Midgetwithahacksaw cbgirl 19 made several incisive videos about em

@@midgetwthahacksaw Yes, a new channel! I scout like five of the top ones for new content, and I'm very happy to find another one so respected and long-term!

not to mention preston jacobs

And the order of the greenhand

Brian Fuller Yeah, after Season 5 I stopped watching

I only own the first four seasons. I consider that the last four are trash, and it's like it was cancelled.

After Season 4

Dumber & Dumber destroyed an amazing books with their lazy, arrogant attitude. They make a mediocre blockbuster with no soul or story direction, filled with stupid plots and subverted expectations for casual viewers. They didn't knew or wanted to understand the material. In fact, they were the perfect addition for Disney's Star Wars.

Still haven't seen season 5 after the abortion that they made of Tyrion vs Tywin in season 4 =) Returned to season 6 to see the story after published books... Should have known better.

How dumb were they? Magic isn't always for children! Besides, what about the sexual and gore parts?

is that a real quote?

Some people get an L handed to them. These dunces buiit their own L.

Jesus christ how did these guys get into this business with shit like that

@@11DaltonB one of them has a famous dad, so thats probably one reason money/reputation on their side.

I bet Benioff had to repeat eighth-grade.

That doesn't even seem real. Themes underpin... *everything.* No themes, no story, no characters. What the fuck.

they kind of have a point in that art that's all about "the message" and stuff tends to be shit. you have to start with the characters, the story, and the aesthetics. themes can then grow out of that

Every time someone tries to adapt an X-Men story (and Dark Phoenix specifically), this goes through my head.

They probably assumed another book would be out by then.

@@technobabble123 they pressured GRRM so much he got fed up with them and stopped working with the TV series, at least mostly. He still gave them some points that will propably happen in the next books.

@@technobabble123 & @Luckma1 Yeah, they did, and what's worse is he promised to have not only book 6 but also 7 done in time. I have no idea what he was thinking. I don't know all the details, but it's evident to me that somewhere, somehow, the two started having problems and the books made it worse. George was super apologetic about missing the first deadline for book six, and supposedly D&D were not having it. To actually be fair to and D&D, George did promise and they were right to panic, but they should've had some sort of contingency I think. I mean George and deadlines are like oil and water. And yes, I haven't read them, but GRRM has released TWoW chapters through his website and at least as far as S6 Arya goes, they are supposed to be reasonably similar, and I'm sure there are others. And George did reveal to them the major story beats to his ending. A lot of them were supposed to have cropped up in the finale but because the show and the books became so different, and George actually earned his ending, I'm sure it will be infinitely less irritating.

@@superanimegamer01 If mixed thoroughly they emulsify?

shut up

“Burn him” -Cersei

Dracarys - daenerys

@@niahoad "Swoooosh" - Sir Ilyn Pain

Shame shame!!!

But it was funny when you, back then after ~season 6/7 pointed out that the "GRAND FINAL!" will suck hard. Everybody explained to you how fucking stupid you would be. I started to do bets like "Next Episode, a Dragon will die" or "Bran will become the King." and so on (The last one was completly guessed in the blue based on this subverting-Bullshit nowadays). Got at least ~40 Beers, 1 Burrito and 2 Döner Kebabs. Great times :)

@@DaroriDerEinzige Dörner kebabs ohne Tomaten mit schafner sind sehr, sehr gut!!

Rex, truth!

Joke's on them i pirated every episode

This is what angers me the most, that I helped to fill their pockets with money...

Kathleen Kennedy, Rian Johnson and Abrams are bad enough

It can always be worse.

Favreau and filoni redeemed the Disney star wars universe

Pretty sure they were supposed to work on the Mandalorian not the newest trilogy.

I thought they just stepped away, glad they were fired

😂

I still have no idea which one is Dan. And I don’t care enough to find out.

The short one is Dan

Fear The One called Dan. But fear especially The One called David.

Dan is tweedledumb. Dave is tweedledumbass

Arrogance forbid that.

They didn't want someone else's name attached to it.

There would have been a good possibility that other writers would be a hell of a lot more better than them and would quickly show D&D up as the type of incompetent people they are. Especially if you had writers that understood the source material. Wouldnt be long before D&D's fantasy empire came crashing down which is probably the reason why they "refused" any assistance.

Same proiblem with Lost. People who ran out of ideas wanting to make sure they get their final season paycheck over hiring new talent.

Darqube you have no vids. Go see a fellow writer named "share his vision" he has a youtube channel. It will wash you with black flames. Go to him. Seek his comments.

Season 6 I'm willing to give them, because even though it contained its fair share of stupid, in my opinion, it was still emotionally resonant, satisfying, and had a handful of genuinely great moments. I think they deserve credit for their handling of Cersei, Jon's reunion with Sansa and the Battle of the Bastards, and they nailed their finale. Davos' confrontation with Melisandre was very well written. But 7 & 8? Absolutely. They didn't know what to do and didn't care. They let their success go to their heads, they thought they were the next best thing. They got a Disney deal, Benioff was signed on to co-write a new movie, at the time Warner wanted them, and so did Universal I think. They thought they could do what they wanted and people would love them regardless. I personally, appreciate them tryimg to stay true to George's end, but it didn't matter to them that they hadn't earned it, so they just compiled a crap ton of fanfiction, cut literally all the corners and said "good enough". No, not good enough, genius.

Trust me, alot of us can relate to that feeling my good man! Its a universal global feeling believe me!

Lol I still occasionally come back here every couple of months and watch it again

Yep, literally me right now... looks like I'll never get over it. It's going to be two years since the premiere of S8 in a few months and I still feel all the anger, pain and disappointment, as if it were yesterday.

yeah they definitely shouldn't have omitted those characters, it would've been cool to see Victarion, lady stone heart, fAegon, Sansa and Little Finger's vale arc, book Euron, Arianna and Quentyn but D&D thought they were smarter than George and they showed that they weren't

Or how the Tyrells have more family members than just Margaery and Loras...

@Liz Lee Those characters' races and genders have nothing to do with anything. Seems like only care about their superficial traits. A character being left out is what matters. Also, where did you get that Young Griff was a "POC"? He's half Dornish. Dornish seem most similar to Spanish people. Why would he win because he has a dick and is white? You really think that's what D&D would have done if they included his character? I bet you see racism and sexism everywhere you look. I'm not really even going to touch the last part of your comment because it is so stupid and untrue. Since when has hollywood been bashing gays lately?

@@wu-ren That is one change I think was justified though, to keep the already giant cast just a little bit smaller. All those different chartacters had relatively small roles to the story after all.

@@houndofculann1793 I get your point, but it ended up making the world of Game of Thrones seem too small. We don't even know the name of the Dornish representative in the last episode. It just feels like shallow world-building when compared to the universe as presented in the books

Maybe they thought that if they fire those year-after-year appraised writers, the soccer-mom audience will not want to watch the show anymore. But yeah, very likely that there were other, more interesting reasons.

Im guessing they have contracts

That, or they did exactly what they intended with it. Minus the final season being short, and feeling rushed, the only other thing I really didnt care for in this series was the Dorne plot. Even not having read the books (but reading about how things were supposed to go), I hated the Dorne storyline.

Or it could be that they had no idea what to do with the bullshit Drone plotline they made up in the first place, so they just decided to scrap it and hope fans won't notice. It wouldn't surprise me. All they know how to do is adapt someone else's finished work, yet they completely fall apart the moment they have to make some stuff up all on their own. It would actually be fitting if they couldn't even finish their own version of the plotline without someone else guiding them.

I personally thought season 6 was better than 5. 5 is my least favorite season outside of 8. The Dorne and Sansa plots are bad.

​@@KungaMatata season 5 was already after Martin left

These guys are two pieces of $#!*

It was genuinely depressing, especially after watching episode 2 and havimg Bryan Cogman remind me of why I love GoT so much. Nothing could have prepared me for those last 4 episodes. I honestly think even Berserk 2016 was better.

@@superanimegamer01 on point with the 2016 berserk reference.

@@RothurThePaladin why thank you. Thought you'd appreciate it.

@Sally Vee Ikr! It was so good and it was great to see pinkmen get out.

You should watch THE EXPANSE. I was told it's like GoT in space, and it really is. 4 seasons in so far and the show has stayed true to form.

I'm guessing terribly. In all of Disney's infinite wisdom, they de-canonized all of the extended universe content, at least as far as books go, so that means if they had directed/written a Star Wars trilogy it would have to be an original idea.

They "resigned" (fired) from Disney Star wars. Now they are with a deal fucking some netflix

that was the reason for all the violence , boobs and profanity....to distract from their own incompetence at dealing with a fantasy narrative they did not understand and made no attempts of understanding it but merely made it conform to their own vision

and without dnd show only characters like talisa maegyr and nightking. i want ghost of highhearth, lady stonehearth, Jon Connington, Nimble Dick Crabbs and so one.

God I hope so

Also Arianne Martell. I’m still furious that she never appeared and the Sand Snakes were just killing Myrcella their own family members out of nowhere.

I guess I might be the only person I'm just not a fan of lady stoneheart and I can't figure out why

20 might not cut it bro

HBO: "Seriously, we can make a couple of phone calls and-" D&D: "Come on, since we HAVE to do this all ourselves, let's just get it over with." HBO: *headdesk* D&D: "Good, that nonsense is finally done and dusted. Now, onto Star Wars!" Disney: "Actually, you're fired." D&D: *surprised Pikachu faces* HBO: "Wait, that was an option?"

Girl, SAME

I quit watching around the end of season 5 and decided to just wait for the books. A few years later I just said fuck it, I have no expectations, literally none, so I decided to catch up before season 8. Even with the bar being buried 6 feet under and nigh impossible to not cross it, season 8 made me rage quit partway through the fourth episode. It made the last few seasons seem positively astounding. The real salt in the wound is that George is so damn slow there's no way he's going to finish the books before he dies. This Berenstain universe is a tragic one.

Pretty much

GOT fans after Martin dies: "Well at least we have fan fiction." I'm already starting to say that.

Books aren't gonna be finished

Nah, I think many of us knew it's turning to shit from at least season 6 onwards.

They're working on the Three body problem on netflix lol

@@andrewvincent7299 🤯

It's like taking all the football players out of the superball

neither the season 7 ones

@Coelacanth Q A generous man. After season 4 it came a crappy D+D show not a GRRM adaptation.

When they wrote that the horrific circumstances Sansa went through made her "stronger", I just facepalmed so hard. Joffrey, Cersei and Petyr were her lessons in the books, she didn't need to be raped to be "strong" and then imply she'd do it all over again for that reason. Rape is apart of these types of fantasies but holy fucking shit did they get it so wrong, it's almost a glorification of it, "oh it made me strong!" In the books Jeyne is traumatised and destroyed by Ramsay, GRRM writes and presents it in a way where you're horrified and not seeing it as a pillar of strength, that is wrong and shouldn't happen. But see guys? Rape makes you strong! Shallow political correctness that raises more problems under the guise of "you go girl". Don't even get me started on Jon or Euron. 🤦

Dany was well done. Her turn in season 8 may have surprised ignorant viewers but not ones who watch with their brain engaged.

@@fawnieee Read the books again. I think GGR was not horrified in describing how Drogo has sex with Dany. I hate DD but to be fair the "rape" was just a cheap set up for Battle of the Bastards. So I dont think they were abusing Sansa as just going for a cheap revenge thriller story.

Alex North Absolutely not. It occurred far too quickly, it completely ruined her character.

@@fawnieee Er... sorry, but I'm with Chan Thorpe here. Rape is, many times, not described as something "horrific" but something that happens. You are projecting modern sensitivities into a medieval, gritty, dark fantasy. Sansa's story in the series was a complete bs, but EVERY SINGLE ARRANGED MARRIAGE would probably end up with women sleeping with strange men for obligation with not a single say on it. And Martin uses suffering as a tool for improvement all the time. Theon is the prime example of it. Before he was captured in the books, I made a bet with my wife: he had a part to play, but nothing less than tremendous suffering could redeem him. His physical torture was downplayed and "memefied" by everyone. "Oh, he is like Theon. No balls to face the situation". "He is sadder than Theon in a Brothel". Why the double standards? Yes, tutoring would be a way smarter solution for Sansa. Like in the books. But let's face it: D&D are unable to write a single smart line by themselves, let alone keep quality with characters like Tyrion and Littlefinger. So, the "post-rape-inner-strength" thing won.

The first 4 seasons are awesome

^ made completely pointless by the ending. they retroactively ruined the series. I mean, HBO must be seething at these assholes, I wonder how much the bluray series dropped in sales. Also, they had to cut the Red Moon spin off production. All signs of a major debacle. They basically ruined HBO's cash cow LOL

@@linegenrou I really wish this wasnt true, but... you're completely right. I used to watch the first 4 seasons on repeat, just naively hoping the end would pay off in some miraculous hail mary final season. Alas, no dice. And the entire series suffered. Now it's like having an ice cream sundae that someone shit on half of it. Are you even gonna risk one spoonful after that?

The Great Dragon I will never again watch hbo. Never

@@melissametzger2987 it's not really their fault, they tried to help, wanted more writers and more seasons. There's a lot of great stuff on HBO you are missing out.

agreed.

“Lots of viewers don’t like elaborate fantasy in this show.” “Lots of c*nts.”

@Jcorb care to elaborate ? Your comment is very vague

@@cloudbloom Ayyy, sup.

Amen brother

The subreddit asoiaf circlejerk is full of these people.

Amen

Get the confidence of a fat woman who starts getting attention from men for 5 minutes.

@@Darth_Bateman Sounds like something a white boy who got sad cause a fat lady paid attention to other guys would say

​@@7PlayingWithFire7 They are like those skinny white bois who never get a girlfriend, then finally do and think some sleeping cassanova has awakened. Since I'm not bisexual however, I don't really deal with bois like that. Also, I'm black, hope your year goes better.

Patrice Oneal?

*applause*

Dude shut up, everything bad that was in Last Jedi was incomparably worse in Later Game of Thrones.

The villain in the sequels trilogy is JJ "Mystery Box" Abrams. Rian Johnson actually bothered to do something other than baste the audience with fan service and gets spit-roasted for ACTUALLY creating something.

@@ShishakliAus meh, the last jedi is pretty much the best of the series currently due to the lack of fan service and how he approached the series, i also enjoyed the visuals tbh but I fucking hate what he did to Luke and that Finn-Rose sub plot was trash

@@ShishakliAus didn't help when the only resemblance of a plan for the trilogy was "wrapped up" in the second film. Ruin Johnson literally went and threw the main villian into the pit and didn't help with any of the plot.

@@cloudbloom not faithfully

let s hope not or at least there is a contention that will step in and prevent that from happening

I don't think they were trying to appease, or please, anyone but themselves.

shesaknitter its just a saying. Or “if you try to do everything you do nothing”

I suspect if HBO had demanded to review the script, these two would have either been fired or provided mandatory additional writers by season 5 or 6.

Two D-bags make a movie about two D-bags..

I O exactly

*D&D:* That's outrageous! It's unfair! *Fans:* Take a seat, young Crapwalker!!

Same.

They pissed on a masterpiece and called it an improvement.

Mountain Fox I never watched the last season, I was about to watch it and heard how much it sucked. That’s when I had memories of the last Jedi and said nah man I’m not interested any more

@@jeremyoleary5788 You're lucky...because it's hell.

It's hilarious because it has a cliché 80s Lame Nerd Shit Nobody Likes vibe that is... Both a cliché and outdated nowadays lol the bullshit argument "we dumb the core elements of Fantasy/SciFi down to make the story more appealing" is insulting on so many levels.