David Cameron return marks the end of Conservative England | Andrew Marr | New Statesman 

48% were bright enough to realise that this Archipelago is part.of Europe... including a majority of.Scots and Northern Irish. As the Tories are essentially an English party that means that they are elected by a population not smart enough to understand basic geography.

Never underestimate Labours ability to defeat itself. First Miliband, then the Corbyn nightmare, and now Labour MPs resigning because of Gaza, which is something they literally have no influence over anyway. The Labour Left always find a way to keep Tories in power.

@@paulfr6768 I can't agree more. Shouldn't the left focus on all the issues within the UK first before getting worked up about a foreign affair.

its called greed. A grab it and grasp it mentality that has pervaded the UK for over 40 years. Rational Britain ended when Margaret Thatcher took over and legitimised unrestrained greed, and short term gain The Tories have continued to sell that message to the present day.

@@paulfr6768 not helped by Starmer digging his heels in over this rather than recognising it's not that important as far as a GE is concerned and allowing a free vote. Incidentally, I don't think the Left want to win a GE. They might have to get their hands dirty dealing with the messy realities of government.

Everyone can see it with the state of the nhs, lack of infrastructure, poor pay, unsecure work and cost of living.

Please, British love the damage! They will vote the conservative again not even 3 years in

They said that last time. The one constant in the Conservative party is its ability to adapt. Sometimes takes a while, but they'll be back.

People in this country don’t have political memories lasting for generations (except in Northern Ireland, which doesn’t count as NI has its own political parties).

Not to mention Brexit which has ultimately been the cause of all the political turbulence that has since ensued @@ab8865

I noticed they waited until those that died in WW1 were all gone, and still waiting for those that died in WW2? Bastards!!

I too was born in 1947 and what gets my goat is the myth that "Conservatives are better with the economy". No they are not it's a myth.

​@@kenmay1572The trade unions weren't very happy with Labour in 1978/ 1979, were they? 👀 They brought down the Labour govt.

As a cynic I also wonder where all the money they have saved by the large amount of pensioners dying gone ? Yet they still want to give tax breaks to the rich !!!

And he stands there in his dickybow and preaches about how they done well for our Country! discusting, just discusting.

TBF... they have filled their pockets, squandered tax payers money and brought the NHS to it's knees.

Potholes might be filled? Lol. That is it but even that is a maybe.

And me

gerardmackay8908 That damn bacon sarnie. Labour will have to be on their guard more then ever now.ln the next 12 months they will be up against the dirtiest political fight imaginable.

But labour never have been able to manage the books and with events such as Covid I don’t think it would that much different .corrupt politicians!

@@christinefiedor3518the Tory’s spent billions and it went straight from the tax payer in to the pockets of donors and management consultants

Ed Balls, the man who replaced qualified teachers with cover supervisors.

Yep. Show a bit of dignity and call an election.

The voters deserve better.

Fishy Rishi wants his India deal enrichment for the family first!

Think he must have been watching "Downfall". #bunkermentality.

There needs to be some rule that in the event of a new PM, an election must take place within the next [3 or 6 or 12 or whatever] months. Yes, the system has been that you elect a party, not a PM, but in fact, the reality is that elections are led by candidate PMs and the PM, and the front bench, are very much what people are electing. When that changes materially, the people need to be able to endorse (or not) that. Further, the prominence of extremists like Braverman is very much a symptom of the FPTP system. In a PR or single transferrable vote system, extremists would tend to be sidelined, not boosted. In fact, the governance of the UK in the last 10-15 years is one of the strongest arguments against FPTP there is. It's really messed up the UK.

They have no MPs at least they won't have after the next election theyll be crushed into the oblivion in the next election they are a left wing party pretending to be a right wing party to get elected but now the cats out of the bag they're history

How could you possibly find any one capable of any thing from the Establishment spoilt, pampered multi millionaire Public School clique who have had their noses wiped all their lives and never had to struggle for anything. One public school in particular should be ashamed of what they produced.

Could be worse. We could have flip flop Anti British E.U loving Starmer

@@stellaadams7289actually it literally could not be worse.

Oh yes, let’s all share a tear for poor England

@@TBrl8course it can get worse 😂😂 you live in one of the most successful nations ever made 😂 if not the most successful 😂

@@James_36correct, I don’t live in England. However, joking aside, Jimmy, Boris Johnson, Liz truss, Sunak, May, David Cameron back in govt. brexit, Nigel farage about to rejoin the party, 30p Lee. Michal fabricants hair = no it cannot get worse.

His father-in-law actually wanted the far bigger, sweeter trade deal with the EU. The sticking point was that one of the member states was vetoing it. Bet you can't guess which one it was? And that's why Rat Face Rishi was ardent Brexiteer.

The first person Cameron spoke to when he got the post was his opposite in India. Not Israel or Ukraine. But India. Sunak only wanted both posts he held because he saw the money signs and the doors those positions opened up to him that would otherwise never have been open. Plus he was in charge of fixing things to benefit him and his Mrs and father-in-law. While he waits for his riches he is destroying this country and our lives. The son of immigrants now wants to take all of OUR rights before he sods off back to the States. A free country. His links to the WEF should scare people too. Not forgetting his part in eat out to help out kill 20,000 more of us. Now he stands there like a little dictator telling us he will change this country. I can't explain my hate for the conman.

Cameron may be brokering a China deal for murthy?

So you think Sunak was planning this all along? He backed Brexit in order to plunge the country into economic chaos and an immigration crisis, knowing that after just two general elections and four prime ministers, he would wind up in No. 10, where after a bit more politicking, he would appoint an ennobled David Cameron as Foreign Secretary, who would broker a trade deal with India on his behalf, without any accountability on the floor of the House of Commons, thereby enriching his own father-in-law, because you just can't trust 'em, can you? That's brilliant! Crazy _and_ racist!

​@@Ozymandi_asyep. Rishi (who is new to politics) he just trying his best. He's now finally shown his colours.

Cameron cant be bullied by the ERG on an interpersonal level , but they're trying it anyway , self destruction isn't even their minds

I'd suggest quite a lot of the damage was done before Sunak became PM.

A month ago, Sunak talking about making the hard long-term decisions for the country and breaking from the past, then brings back Cameron. Cameron the man behind a Brexit vote (assumed remain would win without campaigning enough) and crushing austerity. The arsonist returning to the scene of the crime. Sunak has spent 12 months achieving nothing and is now in the home straight of a crushing election defeat. 14 years not of ‘Hope and Change’ but incompetence and destruction.

​@@jamalangeli8122you spelled "David Cameron" wrong.

@@kiljaeden7663 No, I don't think he did. He just omitted David Cameron to the list along with Boris Johnson. It is Tony Blair that turned the UK into a belly crawling, kowtowing machine to the Americans. Famously depicted in George Michael's music video as a poodle lap dog to then US President George Bush. It was around that time or shortly after did we start hearing this nonsense about the Atlantic Ocean being a pond. Furthermore, whilst Tony Blair was the one that helped bring about the formation of the then Welsh Assembly (now Senedd), Scottish Parliament and the Northern Irish Assembly, he failed to create an English Parliament that cemented the fact that the UK Government to all intents and purposes is English. A huge failure and Cameron's foolish decision to hold a referendum on EU membership followed by Johnson's daft, ludicrous populist politics has all taken their toll not only on UK politics but on the strength of the union itself.

That "oil find in Israel" is just off the coast of Gaza, Israel has no legal claim to it though they're extracting the gas.

He's only there for the India trade deal...guaranteed billions for the family.

​@Downarshed let's hope he's no longer PM before that deal goes through. 😂😂😂😂

Well said

@@alanhat5252 Israel doesn’t care about what’s legal. They’ve been breaking international law since 1948.

Yep gotta agree on that, I was surprised at his self control 😂. It would be like that scene in deliverance. ( Squeal piggy squeal).

Yes buying BP shares and then awarding BP a licence to drill in the North Sea. It smacks of insider trading.

Its hard to see whats happening on the ground in England when you fly over it in a helicopter

​@@dj_cakesor floating up in the clouds somewhere

But too kind to Teflon Dave.

@@jamesprice4647 Yeah, Cameron should have put some conditions on the referendum result, based on turn out or margin of victory...

I'm afraid Britain doesn't deserve more. It gets exactly what it deserves because so few of the electorate vote. The very last thing the tories or Labour want is a 100% electoral turnout.

What I notice, is that the Conservatives are hell bent on punishing the ill, disabled, out of work and homeless because they can't or don't work, while at the same time, those in work are striking and refusing to work. It beggars belief.

But I do believe Angela has a powerful rectoric with in the labour party and generally. The electorate are exhausted, traumatised and in need of some practical sense going forward.

@@-emmacaton-2905 I disagree, but I would love not to. I like Angie a lot, and I'd believe in her as a leader. But she isn't leader and has to vote with Starmer and tarnish her record to stay in the running for future. Liz Kendall went on Sky to prove my point, she refused to distance herself from the Tory policy on disabled. I agree, I think there needs to be a bunch of fundamental reforms to the system itself because it's not working and becoming alarmingly unstable already.. And the public are just exhausted

@@reinaswift8457 so why do I resonate with Angela is the question, she's come up from a space I shared as a single mother in the 90's, and enjoyed the investment in my community and have always appreciated that there was the funding to do so. It's sometimes so difficult to stand up for an overlooked benefit in the past after such a volatile decade. But to have any kind of affinity or considered association whilst being lampblasted with the current nihilism is just so pessimistic and to be honest boring. So it's going to take each of us to step up for supporting and taking the opportunity to influence by voice and voting with nuance. About time. I'm so tired that I'm willing to be patient and humble to all opinions. It's what it is to live with independent thought in a confused world. X

​@@-emmacaton-2905 I trust her because of her background it has made her very in tune with understanding how difficult life can be for the poorest on the ground and that I feel gives her a good sense of judgement and empathy toward the more vulnerable. That is what has come out when I've seen her speak anyway. Sadly, she doesn't have enough of a voice within the party to alter its direction. When you have the likes of Starmer, Kendall and Reeves at the helm, I don't think that tanker is turning around any time soon. I'll still be casting my vote, possibly tactically if there is nobody willing to vocally commit to standing up for the vulnerable and the kinds of policies that are important to me on the ballot.

Oink, oink!

He's on the pig equivalent of Tinder.

Those are some mighty attractive pigs you got there, miiiiighty attractive.

Savage 🤣

Haha, yes!

They're not true Conservatives any more.

Ill be the judge of that

True, Hamas is holding the people hostage

It is a Concentration Camp

@@milsub59 seeing what Auschwitz looks like, not really. Not even close to the Stasi prison

@@sciencefliestothemoon2305 Yeah I wouldn't go as far as saying concentration camp but it is a prison

I think the point was more "Does he still think that and if so will he lean on Israel a bit?"

But how much more damage before we are rid of them?

@@normanchristie4524 ... and how much MORE damage when Labour get in .... Switch that Muppet-O-Meter right up to Number 11 🤣

More damage than this Tory omnishambles?🤡 That's a fxxking tall order m8

I fear the next iteration could be far worse. Even in opposition.

@Mantastic-ho3vm The division they have fostered won't just disappear. The dogs they have whistled up won't just lie down. The fight has already started for who is going to pick up this "oven ready" rabble.

And THAT'S the question on the electorate's mind. Starmer has sat back and watched this mess unfurl for a long time. We know there are some in his party who would prefer another leader so he's walking on eggshells as it is. But i think the electorate might have preferred a sign of strength from the party in waiting

That's the opposite of tory mindset they will pillage every last drop of money they can out of the country for as long as there tight arses can clench down

@@johnrowland3105he can’t afford to go against the previous Tory voters that don’t like this particular Tory government and also those who might vote for the even more right wing that used to vote labour. He’s between a rock and a hard place right now.

Rebuild 😂 wtf are you talking about 😂 - please be specific on what has been destroyed and what needs to be “rebuilt “ I’d love to know 😂

Well i think anyone with common sense can answer what has been destroyed. The NHS - less beds, longer waiting times and not just because of covid, our military latest MOD reports have issues stark warnings over lack of investment in our army, navy and airforce, the utter splurge of tax payer money on stupid polices like putting immigrants in hotels , instead of negotiating concrete treaties with France to stop the boats getting here in the first place, now they wanna spend millions more jet setting em off to a country 100's of miles away basically passing the buck but still paying for it, our transport infrastructure which in parts especially in the north have not been upgrade since Victorian days, local businesses being left to die out as a result, the constant dithering between different prime ministers now they just brought back an old face cos they are falling like a stack of cards so much for party of the new lol , legit the list goes on and on you don't need someone to tell you open your own eyes and you will see what these arse holes have done to the country just like the did under thatcher. @@James_36

they are "bringing the band back together"

@@ab-ym3bf The boys are back in town .

Hope not Cameron and Osborne started off the rot.

😂😂😂😂😂😂😂

Don’t even joke about it

The Rories.

Ah scheiße!

Boris sold them out with his Brexit deal there not going to vote Con next election if the Lib Dems campaign hard enough

It still doesn't spell horses.

Or possibly remove the first letter!

"govern"?? They're appointed to *_represent_* us!

Too much US TV? In the US "grift" means bribery. In the UK "grift" means working hard. We are talking about the UK. Just saying..

@@stevep4131Seriously

Are you mistaken the word grift with graft.

Cameron 's strength always was presentation rather than mastery of detail. But austerity was necessary following the overspending of the Blair and Brown years.

I thought they'd flogged the furniture when they realised the silver cupboard was bare.

Labour could guarantee a majority by offering proportional representation, which would facilitate an electoral pact with LD, SNP and Greens.

He is correct in concluding the Rishi has chosen sides, but Rishi has chosen the wrong side. In 2019 Boris was as much as 26% ahead of Labour in the polls. Now after appointing Cameron, Sunak is 30% behind.

@@gordondavies7773 Both Labour and the Conservatives campaigned against the AV referendum. They both prefer a two party system.

@@vonn9737 I agree. That is why Labour will always have to depend on Scotland to win a majority. But as Scottish independence is inevitable, the question being 'When', Labour needs to change its opinion on proportional representation

I have voted Conservative in the past. I won't forgive them for what they have done. They allowed the right of the party to take over.

@@richardcoppack5357 😂😂 so only left wingers are allowed in the meant to be “right wing” conservative party 😂😂😂

Indeed. As things stand, we'll not only get them back in 5-10 years, it'll likely be a further right version spearheaded by Braverman and her ilk.

England. We have bitter little unionists in Scotland.

from the left...

As John Bercow aptly put it in an interview with Times Radio earlier this week, " A rotting corpse of a Government ".

@@RobertLogan the SNP is being swept from power in Scotland Labour is back so I highly doubt Unionists are sacred in fact that have won to keep the country together for the next decade at minimum.

@@covfefe1787 Say it like it is! Eh .... ROFL - 2 MPs. BOOM

I'm not convinced this lot can be classed as Conservatives really. Come to think of it, same with Labour, they're almost 'aligned' in many ways. Both despise the working classes

I’ll be joining you in the toast @alours6993. And looking forward to getting back my right to vote so I can help to vote the bu-ers out.

😂😂😂 not one reason given as to why that is, so with this comment you assume stalmer and raynor are a bright future for the UK 😂😂. I cannot wait for all the tyrannical identity politics laws to be passed by them and even more taxed than I already am 😂

And relentlessly biassed.

Noam Chomsky put Andrew Marr in his place, and the whole time of his BBC career he stuck to his Tory persona

@@barrieroberts75 Marr is no Tory though, he is more of a Blairite.

@@alphabetaxenonzzzcat😂😂 you means who gave out communist leaflets out in London 😂😂😂

& get Starmer & the motley crew of front bench Labour Party? They are going to jack up taxes in a recession, waste money, & end up doing corruption, and in Orwellian style the pigs will be wearing trousers) The cycle will continue, with the Tories returning, & Starmer going off to give £1m speeches and a wink wink to banks and corporations! Still with rising inflation, & London property price rises, that will probably only buy him a bed sit in a gentrified sink estate by then! :)

I don't they have been in my lifetime, all I see are labour policies done slower.

Same here in Australia. The LNP (our conservative coalition) lose an election for being too conservative, so their solution is to recruit the services of the Murdoch Press and lurch further to the right. It's bonkers...

That's part of the very core of Conservative values and thinking. The world "should" fit into a prescribed hierarchy, everyone in their place. To a conservative, the issues faced by society are always traced back to someone attempting to break out of their place. Therefore, to restore the way of things, you have to be _more_ of whatever it is the hierarchy is supposed to be. If it's based on racial purity you have to be more aggressive about racial purity, if it's based on religious fervour you need more piety. If you do that, and the world is still not the way it "should be", it's because you're not trying hard enough. More piety, _more_ piety! Conservatism as a worldview is ultimately self-defeating, because the only true natural hierarchy is strong vs weak, which is overcome by both democratic instinct and eduction, and the presence of weapons capable of mass destruction. Humanity is living through a 500-year period, starting in the 1750s or so, where we figure out that if we are to endure, we must abandon conservatism and embrace egalitarianism.

@@mf_rat This is the argument extremists at both ends of the political spectrum use: 'This Left-wing party is Right-wing,' 'This Right-wing party is Left-wing'. When you are to the Right of Ghengis Khan then everything seems Left-wing! We have pretty clear definitions of Left and Right, and using those words but giving them different meanings isn't wise or honest.

It’s hilarious that you think the Tories are right wing. You people really are clueless.

😂😂😂😂

They do look a bit young...

Yes thank god.

I hope you’re right!

It's up to us the electorate to ensure they never get back in.@@JohnHollyoak-vx6pn

They've just been playing the long game...

Nothing gets done under coalitions. People pulling in opposite directions will NEVER work together.

So you prefer strong government over democracy ok.

@@garrettosullivan8830 I prefer a Government that listens to what the electorate says! That would be democracy, cause Labour, LibDems and Conservatives are frankly as bad as each and don't represent the UK people view at all! eg the UK population WANT lower immigration. Not because the UK is inherently racist. But because we haven't got the infrastructure (homes, health car, schools, road space) to support 600K people turning up every year forever! And we cant throw money at those because we also want lower taxes! But all 3 parties talk the talk but wont do what is necessary! PR is not the magic bullet people think it is.

That's why so many millions will be voting Green.

Reform's fiscal policies are Batsh1t there basically Truss's with a few changes the main one is to choke of the supply side Labour pool that makes Thatcherism and supply side economics even look like it works. Unfunded tax cuts, migration ban, leave the ECHR Fracking abandon net zero completely

Evening Pete, I wouldn’t say that you’re wrong for putting a link between austerity and Brexit but would argue that Brexit is much more directly linked to the conservative parties abandoning of true conservative values (once electing Cameron) after Michael Howard stepped down. I believe that the political “system” we were left with in the UK alienated many voters by becoming a mirror whereby the tories sought to copy Blair’s centrist policies. I believe the gap this left amongst many voters left them feeling they were dealing with a political system whereby they had no real choice and that the Brexit vote was a rebellion against this. Just a thought, sir. I don’t disagree with you entirely.

For sure. Vote Leave tapped into a frustration felt by millions in the country after years of austerity. They were conned into believing that Brexit would deliver a better Britain. But it clearly hasn't, and the frustration is still here. Only it is now aimed at the government rather than Brussels. The Tories have sown their own demise.

Brexit never happened. The UK just suffered the entirely predicted punishment by, not only the EU State but its own establishment. National self-loathing is the back story and those seeds were planted by Blair.

The citizens of Poland, Czechoslovakia, Hungary, Romania, Bulgaria and East Germany took their fate into their own hands in the autumn of 1989 by removing from office governments which made daily life wretched and horrible. The UK does not have to wait. The example has been given. When people understand that they can act to stop those who do harm from doing more, they will know courage.

Sickly smell of death around the Tories sums it up perfectly. And yes Marr's probably on the money that Cameroon's appointment tells us there's another year of this corpse government. Nothing good will be achieved in that time when the thieves fall out over who's taken what while taking yet more.

As do Labour. They are killing each other here in Liverpool. It is brutal here.

@@paulamos8781 true, hardliners and liberals - same problem

Nigel? He’s a hero … I’d wager he will be the next leader of the Conservative Party and maybe soon your Prime Minister. We can only pray, can’t we??

@@ziggurat-builder8755 A PM who'll lie to your face and smile about it

PR was rejected in a referendum during the coalition by a wider margin than Brexit. What's the point of arguing for it? And remember, an upside of First Past the Post is that Nigel Farage has never been elected as an MP.

@@mikesommers1068 PR was rejected by English votes. Which approaches the heart of the need for PR. Only England uses FPTP. It forces this undemocratic period piece on the rest of the disUnited Kingdom. Ireland's Reunification and Scotland's independence are hastened by our enjoyment of PR in our own countries. The imposition of England's FPTP preference on the disUnited Kingdom is another divisive fact which the English alone embrace.

@@lindabastable3021 Please, do get an education. You had your chance of independence, and you never took it. If there's to be any further referendums on the issue, then it can only be a referendum of the English, Welsh and N. Irish deciding, whether, or not, we want to allow Scotland to remain part of this country. As it's no different from having a traitor in our midsts. And with Scotland's history of treachery, it's something that should be carefully considered.

@@hotstepper887I’m utterly delighted that you see us as traitors. Because the current iteration of the Tory party is skirting perilously close to fascism. If you support that, then you’re right. I’m you’re enemy and so is any right thinking citizen of the U.K.

@@hotstepper887 Oh, dear. You obviously get your anglicised version of 'news' from the unashamedly right wing mainstream media. Might I suggest that you venture into the international arena. You will no doubt be shocked to discover the vast gulf between English versions of opinions on Scotland, and those of practically every other country on the planet. Most devices have translation apps you can utilise. There are uncounted examples to choose from. * On the original vote for Independence I would draw to your attention the fact that England threatened to refuse independent Scotland's entry to the EU. This had the effect of paralyzing many Independence voters, who abstained from voting. * Scotland voted heavily in favour of remaining within the EU. In fact brexit was a huge boost to the cause of Independence. People were given the stark choice of basic identity. They could choose any two of Scottish, British or European. They could no longer be all three. * Since the first referendum the polls have consistently shown that, in 10 year tranches, the only Scottish group to support remaining within the disUnited Kingdom are the 65+ age group. The inverse correlation between age and support for Independence never wavers. The younger the age, the greater the percentage of support. I presume it is unnecessary to point out that natural attrition erodes the original 65+ age group, whilst swelling each other group. In fact, the intervening years since 2014 have provided ferrtile ground for Scotland to sharpen policies on almost every subject. Scotland now is much better prepared than in 2014. We have been invited to join EFTA. Several EU countries are on record that we will be welcomed back. We have new 'trade' offices which require only a change of letterhead to become embassies. I could write a small book detailing Scotland's actions. However, I will leave you with merely these observations, drawn from English language sources:- # Both Carney and Posen, Canadian and American, imported to run the Bank of England, have stated independent Scotland will be financially viable. # S&P, have awarded independent Scotland a putative financial rating of AA+. They have never reduced this. Meanwhile GB's rating has slipped from AAA+ to below that of Scotland's. # Bloomberg has a scathing episode where a representative of the Bank of England attempts to portray independent Scotland as an unworkable fantasy. Her argument is shredded by the Male interviewer, himself a financial man. My penultimate observation is that the Edinburgh Agreement contains a clause (I can't recall off the top of my head whether it is 14, 16 or 19) which states clearly that Scotland has the right to independently call referdenda. My very last word is a query to your common sense - if Scotland is a burden on England why are the English so determined to hold on to Scotland? England is governed by self interest. It is not a charitable institution. Pejoratives such as 'grant' and 'subsidy' and 'GERS' give the impression that England supports Scotland, but the bare numbers contradict this illusion.

Illogical…..Johnson has well and truly betrayed this country , both as Foreign Secretary and PM , to Russia. Truss trashed my and your pension savings and Sunak has brought back that coward Cameron from his pig stye, who started the process which has rapidly returned this country to bankruptcy.

Evening Edward, I hope you don’t mind me saying that as a “swing” voter it’s baffling to hear someone say they’re abandoning the conservatives because of Rishi Sunak. This means you’ve backed Michael Howard, David Cameron, Theresa May, Boris Johnson and Liz Truss consecutively without considering your voting position to the party. I’m far, far from being a conservative voter at present but do not believe that you can level criticism at Sunak which doesn’t date back to when the conservatives elected Cameron as leader. I’m also far from being a Labour supporter at present but it’s incredible to read someone’s support is withdrawn for Sunak having therefore supported Johnson.

You voted for Johnson ?

I am 64. There weren't any communists in the Labour Party. Momentum were kicked out and Labour was brought to the middle. People vote tory because they believe their lie that the voters will be able to *#%^ the masses and it will male them less common. But in reality they become more common, and also fick

​@@milsub59millions did were you living under a rock?

The Brexit referendum result was to my mind unconvincing. The margin was less than 2% and the turnout just 72%. Given the strategic importance of the issue, the prevailing circumstances where people were in a negative frame of mind for unrelated reasons, and particularly that the change would mainly affect younger generations not yet enrolled, arguably the decision should have been based on a super majority, say 55%. If it had been the brexit proposal would have been lost by a good margin.

I’ve been wondering if Rishi was having an affair with Suella, because she behaved as if she was untouchable.....

Not as over as we might hope

But weren’t you Northern moaners Marxist to begin with?

Dude, let brexit go. Smh

Cameron and Osborne between them (with their accomplice, Nick Clegg) are basically the architects of the state we currently find ourselves in.

The UK economy has shrunk more than a 5th these 13 years but it's still £trillions, there's plenty of money. What's needed is to drag the money back from the Cayman Islands, or at the very least stop yet more being leeched off.

The job Starmer signed up for is to destroy the Party that voted for a Leader who supports Palestinian Rights. The Torys have made it very difficult for him - how can he destroy the Party while he's leading it as Prime Minister?

@@alanhat5252 In the 1960s it was the "Gnomes of Zurich" - agree there's a lot of capital in the Cayman Islands and the Channel Islands but nowhere near the sums needed to fund the NHS or social care. Hard choices whoever is in government.

@@1951GL there's £billions leaching away every year without going to the trouble of dragging any back from tax-havens though I dispute the scale that's hidden abroad, too much has been disappearing for too long.

@@alanhat5252 the Cayman islands have there own government which the UK government has zero control over. there would have to be a Act of Parliament that makes them a colony again subject to the King which wont ever happen. the Cayman Prime Minster will do everything in his power including using the U.S military to keep the money there. as a American I have been in Grand Cayman and it is the richest place in the Caribbean they even have western style supermarkets that look like Kroger and a very wealthy white minority that is mostly British who pay taxes to keep public infrastructure working on the Island it also has wealthy hotels and casinos that are world class.

We've had logsrlaly neither of those things. Nigel Farage and Jerment Corbyn are the closest to the two extremes we have seen in mainstream politics. Even Patel and Braverman by the metrics of every other nation in the west is just centre right. I'm not sure you really know what the extreme left and right even are.

The problem for both Parties is that they are serving TWO masters. The voting public and the wealthy elite. IMPOSSIBLE.

What extreme right 😂 and what is extreme right while we are at it 😂. If you are referring to boris he is a left wing liberal 😂😂

Sure. Whatever makes you happy. @@James_36

@@davidbowie50yearsofbowiean23 Extreme right is: Our government should never pay for our General Welfare when it issues our currency. Put another way: Money comes from tax payers who can’t afford a decent life. Until average folks fully understand the difference between a country like the UK that issues its own currency versus Greece that does not issue its own currency, we’ll have extreme right wing austerity

People get confused with Fiscal Conservatism and social conservatism I think Starmer is centre on social issues and centre left on economic ones if you look at Sunak he's centre right on social issues (don't think he cares to be honest) and hard right on Fiscal scale Dodgy Dave was socially quite Liberal but Osborne's Fiscal policies were as hard right as Sunak's (Thatcherism + Austerity)

In a way, yes, which is why I'm going to vote for them this time round to force a change towards the centre. The ideological right have become un-Conservative, destroying the Single Market and attacking our institutions.

​@@SlowhandGreg I guess it's more aligned with "shrink the state" (Tories) vs. "grow the state" (Labour) - but even that difference is harder to tell. Yes, Labour are still more centre left socially, which generally equates to more state help which in turn equals a bigger state. However, in the Blair years, there was indeed an adoption of a more Tory way of thinking - hence the term "Tory lite" As Starmer is so clearly a Blairite, that's what we'll get. That would be "Tory lite" _before_ the right wing nut jobs steered this country into a hole.

Yeah.. they've scrapped HS2, they haven't 'levelled up' and their distraction of 'little boats' is just wearing thin.

Yes and again there is the confusion (deliberate?) of anti-semitism with anti Israeli foreign policy.

Hahahaaha

Well there is the far right in his party so…..

In my opinion 1.Socially Conservative out of 10 2.Fiscally Conservative out of 10 Cameron 1=4, 2=8 Sunak 1=6, 2=8

@@Toodyslexicforyou Yes... this is true... however the far right are literally spouting nazi rhetoric like Braverman... So anything left of that is some form of betrayal... its terrifying... because the NHS may as well be seen as "Communism" at this point...

@@SlowhandGreg I’d put carmon but further right fiscally look at the highly aggressive austerity + the attempted move to American style Free market under Osborn.

Can't believe that there are still bovine tribal voters who still believe that Labour are any different to the Conservatives. They are all controlled by the same London Establishment. They all want to help the rich avoid tax and raise tax for low to middle incomes. They all want to grow the public sector. And they all want to encourage immigration to bring in cheap labour reduce wages and drive corporate profits, even if it hurts those on low incomes the most.