Keir Starmer needs a bolder vision | Andrew Marr | New Statesman 

The answer is proportional representation and people's assemblies.

..and removing the whips during votes, and enabling better local candidates to stand for election to parliament. Apart from that, the UK electoral system is perfect lolz.

@@BONK_2000worked wonders in post First World War Germany

There's a good interview with economist Torsten Bell on PoliticsJoe which goes through the hard choices facing any new administration and labelling the Autumn statement as economic fiction Even small changes can have big consequences Hunt's budget is shrinking public service budgets post April to a level that would see them completely collapse to pay for the tax cuts.

​@@BONK_2000 Yep. We all need to demonstrate this works locally, in our home areas and regions, so that there is a groundswell that national government will find hard to resist. Let's get started!

Where would you plan on building these council houses?

@@phoenixreborn6065 40% of the UK is private estates of the rich. Only YOU dont notice cos you dont even get to drive through them - the roads go AROUND them. Only 8% of Britain is developed. There is LOTS AND LOTS AND LOTS AND LOTS of places to build houses - the idea there is no land is utter bulsh!t. go on google maps and have a look at the UK.

​@@phoenixreborn6065 What is wrong with brown field sites? Added to that the uncounted buildings lying empty, or even grievously underused, in the cities. It is extremely unlikely that the old ways of shopping will ever fill the empty shops. There is actually no lack of available space. What there may be lack of is suburban spaces. Many cities have buildings with garden roofs. Indeed, buildings now have greenery growing as part of their design. Every flat has is own green space. Now tell me; would you rather have an inner city flat with your own roof garden, or a miserable single room for your family, with shared facilities? There is absolutely no necessity for inner city flats to be depressing square boxes with no redeeming features. And that includes cost of building and/or retrofitting.

@@phoenixreborn6065 They're building loads of apartment buildings in London already but they are private and expensive. Build council properties instead. I think legal changes could be made to give councils the planning power to buy up land more affordably.

They don’t want to fix hosing that is the neoliberal agenda. Our wealth and gdp is tied up in artificially inflated property value. Every western country has a housing crisis, a slow moving 20+ year train wreck which ends in you having nothing and being happy with it.

so its all an act and once elected Labour will suddenly become progressive?

Blair I less authoritarian and right wing

No chance in view of the Blairite ascendancy in charge of the Labour Party. Attlee was on the right of Labour but by today's standards he would be a communist.

there won't be any improvement the red tories won't dare to actually help and hit the banks with "totally with the union" Starmer!

full access to the books - laughable

Starmers pretty much kept quiet so the torys cant attack him i suspect it will be quite diffrent if they get voted in .its a guv for all we want not the right or left .

Its a guv for the rich and poor and everything inbettween we dont need left or right .these torys say lies like labours meat tax .i think rachel reeves is more educated to be chancellor.than hunt with his bachelor of arts degree crist we had osborn with an a level in maths and look at the mess he made .

dont vote Tory Or Labour its time for change vote reform.

'Let's home' - hope?

Starmer is just another tory lmao they won't ever listen to anyone but the banks

The last PM to see a reduction in the gap between rich and poor was Harold Wilson.

⁠@@julianshepherd2038yeah I read that recently. Incredible.

There's a good interview with economist Torsten Bell on PoliticsJoe which goes through the hard choices facing any new administration and labelling the Autumn statement as economic fiction Even small changes can have big consequences Hunt's budget is shrinking public service budgets post April to a level that would see them completely collapse to pay for the tax cuts. We will be going into the election poorer than we were in 2019 and the OBR don't expect wages to recover to pre 2008 levels till 2028

@@SlowhandGreg Torsten Bell leads a Labour think tank. Perhaps listen to an independent economist if you want some, y'know, facts?

Its not a Labour think Tank quote Its stated aim is to improve the standard of living of low-to-middle income families. Check out the Joseph Rowntree Foundation Analysis. The Right wing is bought and paid for by lobbyists such as the IEA and TaxPayers Alliance and our media is owned by Billionaire interests.@@0w784g

Clearly, you've carried out extensive research on the subject. Probably is a confident word to use for an outcome that will not be known for more than five years. Particularly considering that they haven't yet won the election. Could I ask you to share your research with the rest of us? Or is it a closely guarded secret?

@@gio-oz8gf It is a perfectly reasonable observation. Odd that you think it warrants a snarky response with an absence of any insight of your own into why the suggestion may be wrong.

you've got to be kidding. The Tories are heading for a heavy defeat next year, followed by a civil war - they''ll be in no position to win the election in 2029.

@@eightiesmusic1984 It isn't, in any way, a perfectly reasonable observation. It isn't even an observation; it's an opinion. (How is it possible to observe the future? Are you sure you understand the meaning of the word?) If he wants to express an opinion, that's fine; he didn't say that it was his opinion; he said it was a probable outcome. Since I didn't say the suggestion was incorrect, why would I provide insight into why it might be? The truth is, I don't know, and neither does anyone else. You should stop trying to put words in other people's mouths and start reading more carefully. I'm only ever "snarky" when people make idiots of themselves, as did you with your comment.

@@gio-oz8gfI suggest you try to contribute to discussion by providing intelligent observations/ opinions/ insights/ predictions or whatever passes for intellectual thought in your head. Alternatively, stop making pedantic comments that add nothing to discussion. You chose to make an unfair comment about a post for no good reason and then failed to substantiate your reasoning.

Labour are ahead NOT Starmer. Starmers personal rating is low...deservedly so

@@skyblazeeterno Starmers Labour you mean, I don’t recall Corbyn Labour being 20 points ahead

I agree in theory but 3 and 5 would be hard/near impossible to do given the state of the public finances.

I don't think you will be disappointed, he knows the MSM will do everything possible to bring him down, lies will surround every policy. However as he isn't stupid he knows staying near Tory lines prevents that. It will stop the Murdoch power grab too. Murdoch won't be able to be on Labour's side and we will at last get who we want and not the rich and powerful. Know Labour inside out and have seen the total unfair way we choose a government.

Proportion representation will deliver number 10 to nigal farage.. so just be careful what you wish for..

top 3 issues for voters are Cost of Living Crisis, Energy Crisis & NHS Your out of touch if you think the voting Pubic have more than a passing interest in a conflict that has been ongoing for decades HS2 is dead Sunak has salted the earth, you'd need a plan that doesn't cost the earth and runs at the least expensive way possible There's no money to buy water and energy and we own rail its franchised out if you wasted time doing it you'd never get the net zero push we need and it would be reprivatised by the Tories in seconds

if you dont vote for them we will get the tories again. with our stupid system. tories love it when people protest vote or dont vote

Proportional representation.

It funny that so many people agree that We need a proper change. But when someone promises it like Corbyn did they’re suddenly against it. Almost like the right wing press want the status quo or to make it worse.

well that shows how bad corbyn was as a leader if he could not leader is party. Remeber corbyn lost 2 elections why would labour want that again. you cant do anything if you are not in power no matter how good your manifesto is.

@@bendreczko9054 You have entirely missed the point. I would proof read your post in future as well.

@@eightiesmusic1984we weren’t in that desperate of a situation in 2019, more care was given to Jeremy Corbyn’s highly questionable foreign policy and his metropolitan philosophy. it is evident to all how royally fucked we are , i doubt there will be a huge labour switch but i imagine a lot of tories will stay home

Corbyn's refusal to condemn Hamas as a terrorist group, and he (and his ilk's) position on Russia's invasion of Ukraine, demonstrates that we'd be in an even worse position now were he in charge, just in a different way. As much as I dislike the Tories, and despite the fact I initially backed Corbyn, we missed a bullet there. He is squarely on the wrong side of history on the most important foreign affair events for nearly a century.

The obvious problem with that strategy is come election time what does Starmer Labor represent, if that is not delineated , and voting Tory is not an option, then why not vote Green or LDP or Independent, who at least have some identity compared to Starmer's non identity. If Starmer Labor think they will win by being a very narrow target, it could well be Starmer seizing defeat from the jaws of victory !

Starmer will boldly serve the bank for another term! Don't worry!

Yes, he's been banging the drum for the Conservatives for the past decade.. now his challenge to labour is to be better... lol

In what universe is 56 resignations from the parliamentary party "stability"?

stability = more of the same policies

I wish people would separate the topics of immigration and asylum seeking - 2 different things. Ironically believe that we are arse about face and we have let LEGAL immigration go way too high while we are crap at dealing with asylum seekers

It is expected to go down to 250,000 a year by 2025. Small boats were not an issue until the Tories made them one. The y have failed to deal with the issue on purpose for political purposes. Labour has no meaningful solutions to Britain's problems so if it does not move significantly to the left in office if it wins the GE, by pursuing policies that provide economic stability for the majority and reduce inequality at the same time, it will pave the way for an even worse iteration of the Tories than in 2023. The scale of the problems is analogous to 1945 in some ways, but Labour is not up to the task under Starmer.

They will, we are not as stupid as the Tories think we are. Our losses have been great and ppl are educating themselves as they can't understand where all our cash, standing, dignity and compassion has gone. It's now become obvious.

It will be interesting to see labour inacting a new wave of austerity cheered on by the Conservatives who will miraculously be concerned with the level of government debt as soon as they are in opposition.

out of curiousity as it was 750000 this year(or the latest yearly record) whys it going to massively decrease in 2025?@@eightiesmusic1984

9 million working age people out of work, rate of economic inactivity is over 20%. Importing that labour is a near/mid-term sticking plaster solution.

i suggest you read more about economics. Labours excuses of no money and fiscal rules are just prepared excuses for not doing anything

Idk why anyone would suggest a national ID card after what happened when the last labout government wanted to introduce one. It would instantly turn like 50% of the electorate against them, not to mention it won't solve anything.

That sounds like US perspective man UK citizens have passports and drivers licenses I don't see the big deal with just another form of ID. Open to being corrected I just don't see the big deal; NI numbers also exist.

Not having ID cards is utterly bizarre, I cannot think of another advanced liberal democracy that does not have them. Without them the country is wide open to increased benefit fraud, illegal migration, identity theft, etc, etc.

@@GamerJudgemental Ok, so you don't see a problem, fair enough. Here's mine. In this country, if I'm walking around minding my own, doing as I please within the law, if a police officer decides that they wish to ID me, just because the feeling takes them, or they decide I'm someone they want to know more about, due to there "suspicions" they can't. Yes, UK citizens have passports and drivers licenses, not all of them, but a yeah a great many do. Neither of those items ANY require them to have either item on there person at all times, in order to prove who they are at any time to anyone asking. I rather like that freedom. Not everyone cares about that, such as you, but having that freedom taken away, can leave it open to abuse. As things stand it's not, simply as there is no requirement of me to abuse.

@@jubear1493 fair enough man I see what you mean. Potentially a slippery slope for sure. Ideally the police would have honest reasons to enquire and if you've done nothing then you shouldn't have anything to worry about but humans are awful so unlikely to stay that way

There is no significant extreme right position on immigration. What does exist, has existed and will continue to exist is the entirely moderate Gillian Duffy opinion. What NED shows is what happens if you ignore the centre ground for long enough.

I agree IMMIGRATION is an area where we on the left are massively messed up. Its simply not wrong to argue about NUMBERS. I recall getting accused of being racist yet nothing was mentioned about skin colour

it also needs policies different form the Tories. People are seeing that Labour offer nothing different

lack of money is economic illiteracy

The annoying thing is he's either more wobbly than a jellyfish flailing around trying to say whatever he thinks the people listening want to hear, other times he is so stubbornly, pigheadedly dictatorial such as his stance on Israel and other issues where he threatens to kick people out of the party unless they repeat the exact lines he wants them to. He's absolutely awful.

@@jonsmith5058he’s AWFUL. I hope Labour uses him to get a majority and ditches him immediately.

we need to pause immigration and have a moratorium a national discussion about it. Im a left winger but its an obvious issue that the Tories will exploit but NO PARTY is really being honest about. They say they will cut immigration yet do nothing. The simple mathematicsare that we dont really need any more immigration - we have something like 1.5 million people unemployed and 1 million vacancies yet allow 0.75 million people in. Surely people can see the madness of this? Weve become locked into thinking cheap foreign labour is the solution

you pay for things by raising taxes and or borrowing - its not rocket science

Sounds like you've got your priorities right hahaah

Only thing Blair had was a global credit bubble, which when burst he promptly sodded off.

@@0w784g brown had 3 years of surplus of 20 billion

I confirm this and it can be useful sometimes... not sure if I like it, though.

Precisely. It is an empty vessel with no vision. The scale of the problems that Britain faces is on a magnitude analogous to the aftermath of World War Two yet it is saddled for now with a leader who is the opposite of what Labour should be about and the country needs. Britain needs an Attlee with a cabinet of major talents with the necessary heft. That is not going to happen under Starmer.

we are an island nation - ILLEGAL immigration is minimal and if we are talking about asylum seekers/refugees we have a legal and moral obligation to accept and process them...we DO NOT however have ANY obligation on LEGAL immigration numbers which tbh are way too high

I like this idea in principle. I wonder in the future if the concept of 'digital citizenship' becomes a thing. Whereby people can engage in all aspects of citizenry from their home country before becoming a living citizen here.

There is a key distinction here; countries that have no ID cards, countries that have ID cards that are not mandatory to carry and countries where it is mandatory to have an ID card and to carry it all the time. I reckon the middle option is viable/acceptable but the later is just not needed (unless you want to live in a 'Papers Please' world)

@@Boghopper9999 In the Netherlands it is law that everyone 14+ must always carry proof of ID. Is it really that dystopian? What difference does it make. It is just unfounded fear.

@@jurz995 I live in the Netherlands, no-one cares at all about the ID cards.

It's not common law practice to be accosted by anybody with a demand to prove who you are, and the Netherlands is not a common law country.

that election was one on Brexit imo

I am voting Green. I cannot vote for Labour under Starmer.

Eh? I don't always agree with what he says but he is always clear. Crystal clear.

A lack of public understanding basic politics poisoned by the mainstream media over the years. I vote for the party not a single leader, we are not a fascist country run by a leader. He is the one who has to pull it all together from a very good team behind him. His has stood firm keeping the party on track after the extremist left tried a coup. He stuck with his party and made it good, never giving in to calls that make us look weak and extreme, keeping his focus on the country and not sucking up to people that would bring us down. We have seen the politics of popular funny good to watch empty head stooges preventing us seeing the insidious destruction of everything we were, he doesn't do social media, why? Because his party go and speak to people face to face, regularly, his MPs are on line with what the constituents need to survive and the levels of destitution in their area. They don't lie and pretend we are all imagining the utter stress we have forced on us from the age of bloody 4 years old. Work and money, money and work is all we have been brought up to believe since 2010. We have been gaslighted into believing immigrants are taking our services when they contribute way more than they use,we are not working hard enough, we are asking for rises that cause inflation after taking real term cuts year after year, pay freezes for y ears and taking on the work of your boss and his boss when they retire from the public sector and not replaced and for no renumeration ,we need to work harder for the same wage, we are being ill, we are worried about things that don't exist like the nations toilets existing on our beaches where we take our babies for picnics and holidays, in our seafood, all over protected areas, don't forget breathing toxic air, let them fill every city, town and inland area with toxins that kill us, we don't need to stop using fossil fuels. All in the name of lifting our taxes out of the public domain and into private foreign companies with untraceable bank accounts with untraceable beneficiaries. I wonder what is missing from Starmer? Nothing actually we are all being gaslighted again. Every single stream of comments has at 5 or 6 stating Starmer is useless, they don't say why, because they are Tory commentators pretending to know about politics. Insidious I know, but it's true. I'm old now and have seen it over and over. It massive numbers now on here. Even Andrew has been blindsided. We will get us back on our feet. Despite the so called right wing takeover which will soon peter out. Politics of fear mongering and scapegoating happen now again until people see everything disappear from their lives. Nothing lasts forever.

our economy and sadly most left wingers have become addicted to cheap foreign labour, plus any criticism of our immigration levels gets you touted as a racist or a troll. A simple fact for the boneheaded left wingers out there - increased labour pool suppresses wages and also puts pressure on resources

Because production isn't its purpose