“We think a thousand things at a time, and David found a way to get all that across in a way that's incredibly true and incredibly entertaining at the same time. He found that junction.… He was the one voice I absolutely trusted to make sense of the outside world for me. Anyone that picks up his work for the next 50 years will have their antenna polished and sharpened, and they'll be receiving many more channels than they were aware of.” -- David Lipsky
Something about DFW writing a scathing essay about how disappointed he is with a cash-grab sports memoir is so quintessentially him. You have to laugh.
Yea, maybe. But I think if there was at least some honesty in the writing he would cut the writer allot of slack. I think he hated this book because he called it something like "anti real".
It'd be an honor to be criticized articulately by his discerning attention. I'd learn so much about my own thinking, assuming what I write is my best thinking, and that he is deliberate with his words as usual. But yes, it'd likely be terrifying
@@EdDunkle And he was a big tennis fan, he also played for awhile before realizing that he didn't have what it took to play professionally as he put it so there is a personal interest in the subject matter as well.
My mom : "is this an hour of a guy just trashing her book?" Me: "why do you think it's an hour?" Mom: "That's how long it has been right?" Me: "it has been 7 minutes"
Also if you really listen through this isn’t it possible that David is oozing out his frustration of not being able to think his way into pure athleticism. I mean think of how many times he uses techne, Techne cannot be achieved through “just” episteme
I watched an interview with Tracy Austin after listening to this. Two things I noticed immediately is that she's super focused on the details of the game. When she gets beyond the basic sports interview platitudes that's really just what she talks about. Another thing is that she seems to have a somewhat wolf-like mentality towards winning and "breaking" people - which is kind of unsurprising with someone in such a competitive environment but might also be the secret ingredient Wallace is looking for: Anger instead of fear. If you listened in on her innermost thoughts it might just fifty percent detail-oriented obsession and fifty percent Conan the Barbarian. It's not dumb or lacking in reflection - just vicious. She's actually quite engaging to listen to. I guess the book didn't capture what some of the youtube interviews do.
The book sounds exactly how it should’ve . Tracy didn’t go to college although she’s smart , smart about how they go about it to be aggressive in per suit of their goals. No depth in Tracy and her point construction focuses on inane details but she doesn’t grasp the other players weaknesses or strengths. She came up empty to the varied game Evert wove over her in 1980;Open SF. Tracy was lost as to how Chris completely pummeled her in the last two sets , even first set Tracy was up 4-0 then won just 4 more games while Chris won 16.
This is the intellectual realizing intelligence isn't the most highly valued ability and it doesn't necessarily translate to greatness the way athletic ability does. You want to believe that this great athlete must have something profound to offer because they drove themselves to greatness and you are constantly fighting your own logic and intelligence to find something meaningful in your own life . You can hear it when DFW talks about thinking about what he's not supposed to be thinking about. You can't overthink like that if you want to be great at anything and smart isn't always a blessing. I have found the most successful people I've met to he underwhelming in conversation. Not a lot of deep contemplation. But that's why they're good. An almost obsessive single minded focus. They don't think about the superfluous tragedy that is our life, they just choose to focus on something that they enjoy/have a knack for and simply go do it. Overanalyzing is paralyzing because it makes you talk yourself into the snooze button. "Do I really need to get up right now? Is it THAT important?" And if you can't argue with yourself effectively enough you hit snooze. You don't try hard because "ehh what's the actual benefit?" Path of least resistance. But there's something in you that wants meaning. Craves purpose. Something that you will be valued for. Something you look forward to getting out of bed for. I think it's disappointing and disturbing to realize the motivation isn't coming from some unlockable place. Your mind is locking it up. It's up to you. It IS that obvious that even these people can get it and their inability to grasp concepts of metaphysics likely benefits their performance and persistence tenfold.
It's also revealing the tragic nature of the hyper focus where Tracy was so amazing at tennis, it left a lot of other important things on the wayside. A major weakness is the lack of focus on her health and proper training that created such a quick athletic arc brought down by injury. But as far as intelligence, I don't think athletes are non intellectuals at all. In fact, some of the most academically skilled kids from my school were also very good in sports. However, I do think they have unique ways of channeling anxiety, fear, apprehension while playing. Tracy certainly did this from an early age and I think that is something that people look for in these books -- how to turn off your mind and find the zone.
Intelligence has nothing to do with being a fully fleshed human being with feelings, you pompous ldlot. Unless you’re really saying to be “smart” is to have a personality. David wasn’t always an “intellectual”. He was a dumb jock in grade school.
Thanks so much for this. DFW was so brilliant...his simple, matter-of-fact style of dissection and observation tied into deeper questions and considerations coupled with his complex, stylized opinions and musings seem to make everything else I read childish and one-sided. I always knew there was a writer out there like this guy, and now that I've found him, I want to digest all he ever produced. Sad that there isn't a writer in existence (that I know of) with this much talent...I instantly felt a connection to him...he seemed humble; grounded in his identity yet justified in his confusion/dissatisfaction with the world in which we live. He seems like a man with too much intelligence, perspective, and morality. How he must've been exhausted... putting into words his instant intuitiveness...for us mere mortals. BTW: Can you post more from C The L?
In the somewhat factual "Winning Times" on HBO about the 1980 LA Lakers, Jerry West pleads with ownership that he's a terrible coach and wants them to find someone else.
“Blindness and dumbness” are the essence of genius. Unless, I suppose, your genius is other than the physical variety. There seems to be many other examples, like Larry Bird, Mickey Mantle, and Tom Brady, but not Roger Federer.
DFW gets to it at end. People are "articulate" in different ways. There are about as many top ten tennis players who could write a great book as there are great authors who could play world class tennis. With the possible exception of Jim Bouton's "Ball Four" the greatest spots book ever written. Well, at least my favorite. lol
This is kind of the long and the short of it. I've watched a lot of sports in my time, I've read some sports memoirs and I've seen my fair share of athlete press conferences. I think the press conference format actually gives you an opportunity to see which athletes might be able to articulate their stories in an interesting way some day in the future - and this turns out to be a rather tiny fraction of athletes. But I'm not sure about DFWs hypothesis here that great athletes "have to" be head empty about their ability to do something since I can think of some exceptions - at least relatively speaking. But it could be true that being a great athlete simultaneously skews away from being a great articulate story-teller similarly to how being a great author appears to skew away from being a high level performing athlete!
@@HawkOfGP because to be "articulate", you have to convey messages thru the medium which is language. and language isn't "high level", at least not as high as emotions/instinct. its prob impossible to bidirectionally function the brain on both ends at once. and preferably for an individual to specialize and develop it in a single direction so that it will tranverse into its depth. idk. its just a random thought of mine. i guess DFW was prob describing the flow state. to achieve that, you gotta be like "mushin", some sort of empty mind state. mind zero.
Why is DFW so reproachful about Tracy Austin's "naivity" in her memoir? He seems to believe that only because someone has the talent and determination to become a top athlete, they must naturally deliver literature at the level of a nobel prize winner. Sometimes naivity is not a bad trait. In a career like Tracy's, cut short by injuries and accidents (he compares it to a Greek tragedy) it is perhaps better not to reflect too much about the past. Just look at Tracy today: she seems a happily married mother of three, still enjoying her role in tennis as a commentator, occasionally even competing in the legends. DFW, the absolute opposite of naive, tragically took his life in 2008 at the age of 46.
I am by far an hour late and a dollar short. Is someone able to elaborate and illuminate what Foster means by a "Gertrudian fervor". I am able to garner connotative meaning by his context, but have not be able to track down the specific analogy. Is it something I have not read and therefor not familiar with? Please ..teach if u can. PS. "Fervor" and its surrounding synonyms and antonyms are not eluding me. It is the specific "Gertrudian" reference. Thanks, folks!
Hey there. I assume DFW is making a reference to notorious american writer and patron of the arts Gertrude Stein. Her writing style has a really welll defined sense of rythmic repetition of words and phrases. Pretty good writer actually. Hope it helped!!!
The part about being frugal with money by buying powdered milk. Did anybody else think about the powdered milk scene at the tennis academy during Infinite Jest? Did he get the idea from this???
I think absolutely so. This essay was first published in 1994, 2 years prior to Infinite Jest's release. I think this further proves that IJ really was a compilation of Wallace's collective life experiences and things he just wanted to talk about or express, in novel form. Though this thought makes me sad, considering the amount of references to drug abuse and mental health issues in the book.
Remember he is a fan of tennis and English. He is analyzing why Austin and athletes are important to the culture. Not critisizing Austin's writing! Read a book!
I like how you're telling to people to read a book in the comment section of an audiobook. I read a book yesterday and I found this word....."douchebag". what do you suppose that means?
@@usererror7007 Some people want to kill themselves and therefore one many speculate on what advantage it accrues. This does not help the one who died.
I think at the heart of this essay Wallace reveals a common misconception, the belief that excellence in athletics should be the companion to excellence in intellectual thought. That athletes should be capable of defining the minutia of their athletic pursuit. I'm surprised that he was disappointed, instead of simply assuming it was going to be insipid and banal from the start.
Book jacket description just inspires one to buy the book but she offers nothing, taking jabs at Pam and Chris. Praises Martina . She stated that she lost Sf at Wimbledon in 1980 Tracy said she was consumed with thoughts of winning Wimbledon because Chris beat Martina and her record over Chris was 5-0 for last 5 matches with Chris. Well she’s lying. Tracy lost to Evonne before Chris played Martina. Then at Open in 79 after beating Martina she said well maybe the crowd will be for me , after all Chris has won the last 4 Opens. In interviews she lies by saying she at the time had no idea how many times Chris had won the Open. Tracy is stubborn in her belief in how good she was . In her mind she’s superior. In reality Chris was much better and Martina and Chris lost to Tracy because they were so nervous Tracy got into their head for half a year.
Well I know David played tennis himself too but personally I think it a very dull subject not worth investing myself enough emotionally to have my heart broken though perhaps just knowing certain types of people exist at all could be disappointing in general maybe that's why DFW always sounds so unfulfilled. Particularly since he doesn't seem to be naturally a competitive type he just thought being good at things what the social expectation and because he was smart he was good at certain things the writing for example but depressed people lose interest in everything if they like it or not it all becomes an exercise in futility.
How do the athletes do it? We stop thinking. It's like falling asleep: been keeing yourself awake all day, forcing yourself through thought after thought and observation after observation where daily life is like reading a dense book by DFW, and then finally you get to your playground and get to step out of all that tedious tracing of reality through words and forced attention and get to just cut loose into your preferred sport, go nonverbal and let your brain finally just do its thing without you yanking the leash back all day.
Accurate evaluation of lack of depth that makes up the person in Tracy Austin . Written result is that of a high s hill graduate not wanting to provide personal details to any degree. I believe she has narcissistic tendencies where she is oblivious to those around her - which contributed to her downfall- not figuring out the puzzle as to why she won or lost the last point .
As much as I love listening to DFW read, I want to cry out-- Why didn't YOU write her story, dear heart?! Then the biography could've been profound and amazing, subtle and nuanced. I could read DFW's words on literally any subject and be riveted. I've never picked up any other sports writing besides Wallace's. I can't stand professional sports in general, so how can he make me care about it ? Much less want to read it again and again? That's real genius.
+Melissa Holton Did you read the chapter on the Lobster festival? What did you feel when you read it or listened to the audio? I am extra in love now with DFW after hearing that chapter.
I disagree with DFW 's assertion. Most "top athletes" ARE rather dim. And this , as he then states, probably is advantageous to them. This is a brilliant essay , written by a writer of genius. Sad what happened to him. In my opinion, much more of a loss to humanity than the death of any bonehead sportsman.
Wallace should've stuck around another year for Agassi's 'Open'. Regarding this essay on Tracy Austin, Wallace apparently didn't consider that some athletes/celebrities don't want/need the controversy that follows incendiary remarks. (Other athletes/celebrities seem to thrive on controversy; some learn to regret their remark/s.) Perhaps Austin was simply well-coached in this art as well as tennis. She and other celebrities (and I) have seen/heard so many examples of celebrities burned by their own ignorance when interviewed.
Where does he say he wants incendiary remarks? What he’s saying is practically a platitude, the writer to be loyal to reader and not family/friends. That doesn’t mean spite or cruelty, it just means a semblance of honesty. There is something in between insult and flattery. The point is that her book is not honest. It’s full of lies. But I understand you want to be smarter than David which you’re not lmfao.
duckvenom Why did you refer to those who can understand his work as a proper noun, “Only The Few?” (Also, one doesn’t capitalize determinators like “the” in a proper noun unless it’s the first word of its title, EG The Catholic Church v The Old Man and the Sea). Just strange, lol.
Thirty-Two minutes and Thirty-Six seconds ago I pulled over for some shade and happened to pull next to a day care. This DFW reading made me laugh so hard, so loud and for so long, most of the children are now crying with snot coming out of their noses. I’m not embarrassed about it fyi and truth is I couldn’t help or control myself because it was that funny…. just pointing this out
DFW has a history but the fact is you know just enough about it to think his publishing and teaching overshadows it's importance. He is a teacher and writer. So why did his history get shoveled under a rug? I want to know if he almost died as a child? If his father was culturally diverse? If his mother experienced tragedy? These are truths that make a difference.
i feel for DFW's personal struggle, but i just don't get his sensibility. This. This is Water. Meh. De Gustibus, I suppose. He doesn't light me up like Leonard Michaels (yep, they are very different).
Tracy played 2 slam finals only, Chris played 34 finals do the math . Tracy had a taste and in 79 and 81 played two great finals , Tracy could not sustain that great consistantly. Tracy scared Chris and Martina in these two tournaments were out of whack to what she did, it wasn’t her results it was her presence that scared them both beat her and when they did Tracy was no longer a threat. Once this happened she knew she as never going to dominate them then suddenly had injuries that made her retire. . Tracy didn’t want o compete if she was going to lose to Chris and Martina. Her body followed her pessimistic outlook on her chances to topple the Chris/ Martina . Siubconscious sabatoge to explain her losses when the real explanation was that their talent didn’t match hers.We wanted Tracy to deliver something about her uniqueness , to verbalize what made her special and she was unable to impart this info. My guess that her attempt to be deep just wasn’t there. She just wasn’t able to articulate what is was that made her special. We want more but it’s not there.
24:20 when he mentions how athletes mention the same scrips at the end of a win reminds me of Orwell's 1983. George describing the changing of alliances and acting like Eurasia has been the enemy the whole time is alot like what athletes say and is expected for them to say.
Yet at the end of the monologue, he posits that perhaps athletes aren't actually being fake, but genuine when they appear vapid and scripted. Instead, they're being real. Indeed, perhaps it's being that superficial (as in lacking meditative depth) that allows them to capitalize on their talents.
DFW complaining about the lack of profundity in the post game/locker-room interview? Seriously? Are you f**king kidding me? What was he expecting? Who the hell did he think the average NBA/NHL/NFL player was? Mario Savio? Malcolm X? James Baldwin? The average pro-athlete is a one-trick-pony, (s)he does one thing very well. If you’re waiting for your favourite outside linebacker to suddenly produce a dazzling insight into the novels of Albert Camus, I think you’re going to waiting for a long time.
It's not quite this. DFW isn't expecting an NFL linebacker to wax poetic about any topic outside of sports, let alone Camus. Instead, he is lamenting the inability of top athletes to speak meaningfully about what it's like to be a top athlete. Top athletes are the physical equivalent of a genius, and yet all the memoirs and post-game interviews have utterly failed to give the average individual any insight into what it's like having these genius-like abilities. Is it that athletes are stunningly inarticulate, and repeatedly fail to convey the complexity of what they do? Or are their articulations literal and truthful descriptions of the inner workings of their minds, and the cliches which fail to move the average viewer have a resonance and power to them which guide their actions? Is it this emptiness of the mind which allows them to thrive under immense pressure?
DFW is also pointing out the fact that there was a very different biography that Tracy Austin could have written. Notice the repetition of the word "Greek" a few times thru the essay. There is 'hubris' when a 12- or 14-year old attempts to conquer the world. Even when this young person fails, after first scaling great heights, there is a story to be told - the classic Greek tragedy. But, it has to be done with artistry and finesse. DFW is only stating that we, the readers, should not fool ourselves into thinking that our favourite athlete will also have the ability to write about his/her life with craft and insight. Not gonna happen!
