David Putrino on the findings from the new Nature study of long Covid immune profiling 

Thank you for this discussion. The situation for ME and LC patients is horrific; the illness steals all physical and cognitive abilities. If I collapse in public, I'll be asked if I'm ok and offered help. But collapse in a hospital, I've been shouted at to get up again, or told I'm being hysterical. It took 22 years to be diagnosed with POTS because doctors switch their brains off when they see an ME patient. The prejudice is astounding. Thank goodness for Dr Tuller and Dr Putrino. Hope keeps us going.

"the more toxic folks out there who have made a career out of gaslighting patients" that line hit hard, cook them. imagine waking up after a long career to the realization that you've been ruining disabled people's lives for a living- how long can one keep on pressing the psychological hard cope button to maintain professional delusion by sacrifice of patients for ego preservation. Words can't express my gratitude towards people like Putrino, Iwasaki and Tuller, they add light to a dark chapter of medical history

Thank you Drs, this is an important and very interesting interview. As a LC sufferer, knowing there are professionals out there fighting our corner against those who would gaslight/write us off is priceless. You’re doing amazing work - thank you so much 🙌

That was my experience, I had a very mild case of covid before I had long covid. I had just completed an ultra marathon a few months before getting ill. I was training to be a mountain leader, I was so active. I did get better after 1.5 years but I've just had a viral infection in March and I'm now worse. The daily migraines/vertigo are very demotivating. I keep trying to do things, then I just get hit with vertigo, nausea etc I have autism and adhd, I am a very hyperactive person, so staying still is extremely conflicting, all I want to do is get things done but when I try I end up getting really ill. I wake up every morning with what feels like a hangover, I want my life back and I'm positive all long covid/ CF patients just want the same thing.

From my partner's experience, the long covid clinic in England knew less about long covid that us lay people/patients. They were not aware of most of the studies and common sense meds and approaches. They advised not to take multivitamins as well including vitamin D because their nutritionist advises that eating healthy is enough. Which isn't what is often seen in blood tests in people with LC.

I suspect the sustaining power of the BPS hypothesis for ME/CFS is because it provides medical practitioners psychological comfort. They can reassure themselves that there really isn’t anything physiologically wrong with their ME/CFS patients - to entertain the possibility that there might be would mean physicians would have to accept that their knowledge of the human body is very limited and that their technologies for measuring the parameters of human health are incomplete. Bad science is manufactured to fill a need - I think many members of the medical profession see thenselves as authorities on human health and have a need to believe that their knowledge of human biochemistry is largely complete. How else can one explain people like Paul Garner for example. The BPS hypothesis lets people like him preserve their authority and their status. Otherwise he would just be a clueless patient like the rest of us.

Would just like to remind all the doctors out there about Nuremberg.

Thank you Dr Putrino I found this fascinating. Suffering LC since March 2022 and gaslighting in the medical profession has been extremely demoralising. I was physically fit until I got sick walking up to 8km a day now unable to walk far. I got Shingles too and your mention of reactivation of a latent virus was very interesting to me I have been showing my shingles rash to the GP every visit now and it’s almost ignored. I’m going to ask for antivirals again today, fingers crossed. I just wish there were more medical professionals who were focussed on the entire system. I’ve now found the blood clots in lungs I feel I have a Neurological issue yet to be investigated, huge digestion problems and so glad that I watched today just to give me some glimmer of hope for a future without pain. Great work 🙏🙏🙏

About 24:25 science went out the window. 'Should I get the booster?' ought to be guided by currently known risks-benefits, not by whether you've already had a reaction. While there is NO longterm safety data, the probability of cumulative effects ought be considered based on emerging safety signals which cannot be ignored in respect of e.g. T-cell exhaustion, raised IgG4, persistent spike protein, not to mention inviting probability of e.g.myocarditis, thrombosis each time the dice is rolled.

Where can we get this testing done in the US? What type of specialist should we see to order and interpret the testing?

I had long COVID from an infection in March 2020. Had AZ, Modern and Pfyser ..each dose of vaccine was horrible and I thought I was going to die from the reactions. LC a lot better now but I likely have some permanent damage. Had covid at least twice since and have not gotten long COVID again. Just my experience.

Thanks for this conversation!

Wittgensteinian family resemblance? Thanks to David for educating about that, and about AI, at a time where these are both relevant in ways that extend well beyond the topic at hand and simultaneously misunderstood and eluding the grasp of most.

Thank you so much for fighting on our behalf. Some people do believes us! Here 's to our future.

Thank you for this discussion. Thank you Dr. Putrino for pointing out the medical gaslighting that has been occurring. It happened to me.... in Nov 2020, I thought I was having a heart attack. I was tachycardic and hypotensive. After 3 days, CT scan and nuclear med cardiac test, they decided I was just anxious and I drink too much alcohol. (I'm sorry but 3 drinks a day does not an anxious alcoholic make 🙄) About a week later I experienced what I can only describe as a conscious seizure where my whole body was stuck in a spasm and i had zero control over my extremities, my hands curled up and my feet curled in. It was the scariest thing that's ever happened to me. I told my husband not to take me back to the hospital because i didn't want to be gaslighted yet again and thrown on a bunch of unnecessary psych drugs. As it turned out, i had mold toxicity. Mold was growing everywhere in my house and i thought it was just dust. I lived in that house for almost 3 years. So i had the mold poisoning AND long covid. Fortunately i have moved and i am recovering. I still get POTS flare sometimes, especially after exertion like hiking. I get vertigo. And my allergies went from being seasonal to being every day like clock work. I have episodes of adrenaline bursts at 4am and what feel like palpitations/arrhythmia, and i have battled SIBO with what looks to me like candida.. Most important thing to help heal? LOW HISTAMINE DIET 💯 Absolutely Zero processing chemicals such as PEG, Polysorbate 80, sodium benzoate, MSG, etc. All food must be fresh made. Minimal to no fermented things. And supplements like D3 and K2 and all the B vitamins. OTC drugs for H1 blocking so not seem to help the rhinitis/ cough. H2 blockers help some with the GI tract. What i do find that works surprisingly well is Zofran. Not only does it alleviate nausea but it seems to help the other symptoms as well. Leads me to think i have an overproduction of serotonin....

Hello David. I got Covid in AUG of 2022. A month later I woke up with vertigo out of nowhere. Since then, my symptoms are still the same: constant headache & eye pain, tinnitus, heavy head, unbalanced, can't stand on one leg with eyes closed, hyper-sensitivity to movement, tough to walk a straight line, extreme fatigue later in the day, nodding or shaking my head feels like my brain is moving at a different speed than my skull. I used to be very active with tennis several times per week. I still try to hit, but movement is very difficult. Just strolling through a museum can be so difficult that I need to sit and compose myself. I've seen ENT's, Cardiologists, and Neurologists with no answers for over a year. My confidence about getting back to normal is dwindling. I don't know where to turn for help or how much longer I can deal with this. I'm looking for help.

I’ve had ME for 27 years - I have low morning cortisol. It goes up during the day and is highest at night. Hence sleep-reversal. Getting anything tested on the NHS is a pipe dream.

A majority are already deficient in vitamin D before it gets even further depleted by acute infection. B vitamins too. Sunlight deficiency? Mitochondrial cytochrome c oxidase bound water is a target for outdoors infrared light from the sun still not in the news much ... directly or indirectly from absorption and re-emission. Or just from heat from fireplace - heat from iron or stone perhaps - which pets intuitively seek for basking in.

when there is no reliable database for vax injured, how can we conclude it is rare, or just very low percentage of people have it?

Quite a gain of function.

I think you may be seeing less long vax patients than LC patients because of your view on long vax being overall safe for most. Other docs don't see that unfortunately. But I understand you have to avoid being classes as anti vax. What is the point of your patients getting more vaccines for most of your vaccines in teens of benefit v harm? Until we know the percentage of long vax we shouldn't call it a small percentage.

This all sounds so expensive. That’s the problem I’m finding in seeking treatment already. Once these things are discovered, and treated how do we return to normal. And be able to end all the treatments?

Even worse when you are out on multiple psychiatric drugs - Benzodiazapines, antidepressants and antipsychotics despite trying to argue against a failed system that you have long covid. My personal experience is I know I have POTS from long covid and a recent GP appointment I have been threatened with more psychiatric drugs. How will I ever get better?

Push!

What about the control of have you been VAXXED.

Would Dr Putrino consider coming back to Australia? I'm guessing not, we seem to be in the dark ages when it comes to LC, ME/CFS and other similar complex illnesses. My guess is it will take a few lawsuits before there's real change. The quacks who currently think they hold power over patients aren't likely to change unless their bottom line is compromised.

Did we know at what tissue temperature did SARS COV2 better replicate ? Why ? Because at TWiV 659 at min29 virologist Christian Drosten suggest that SARS COV2 better replicate at very low tissue temperature

Please do compare with ME/CFS! I have had it for 26 years and no cure much less real understanding yet in most of the medical field.

Have you seen anyone with long covid develop high levels of glycine in blood?

Did ,,low temperature agglutinine,, occur after SARS COV2 infection , like after Mycoplasma pneumonie infection ? Why ??

Question is: if it's the case of viral persistance, why is that there is no SarsCov2 antibody in the blood?

I dont like cortisol in the morning.

The answer lies in the spoon theory...

56 years old. Had covid in February 2020, symptoms were mild, never took any injections, had mild colds after that, around Christmas, but didn't test, but was fine! I dooo take a lot of vitamin D 5000 units/day, multivitamins, zink 50mg, magnesium 250mg, 1500mg of vitamin C, 455 mg Chlorella, 40mg Lutine, and 1000 mg of krill Omega. I've been taking vitamins ALL my life and only get mild symptoms from colds around Christmas, but around that time of year I'm just worn out!

Study dna..... are you doctors ?

so what did the vaxx do then??????????//

Did you check against vax and unvaxed? Not hard to find the elephant in the room if you want to look. Who funded the study? 😡