I'm not terribly convinced these are actual women. 2 of them look like Drag Queens. Maybe we should call the French President.. he could find out fosho 🤔
@@robertoreilly8175 What means "abd" in the context of the debate??? "All but dissertation" ignorant??? Who are you referring to? The ladies, Mearsheimer, Davis, the moderator, the audience????
@@Jotnar837 Yes, of course but both Mearsheimer and Davis seemed very shy in front of those awful warmongering ladies. Their usual strength on their own websites was very muted.
@@chieftandriver703 Good Lord! I am really liking Davis' channel (new subscriber) and have always liked Mearsheimer. But I hesitate watching this because of my blood pressure!
yes, horrible Women. because they are only expending money, but not american lifes, thats what they discover on Ucraine´s war, they can fund any war what they like, but not paying the consequences of casualties at Home.
Unfortunately, Ukrainian lives matter much less then our lives; On Daniel Davis' Deep Dive show, if I recall correctly, Prof. Mearsheimer said that Ukraine was in a demographic death spiral, which should be alarming, if not horrifying. If the same number of Americans were dying in a war, we would have demonstrations to stop the war across the country! We would not stand for this level of massacre of our population, nor would the Europeans, especially in war that cannot be won.
Be honest, thousands if not tens of thousands of people die horrible deaths every day around the world and my guess is it does not affect you at all. The most that can be said about deaths in the Ukraine is, the west is funding the violent un living of Ukrainians and Russians. That does concerns me a little. All of the wealth being transferred to the Ukraine project will diminish most western citizens future. That concerns me a lot because I live in Canada.
As someone who fought and was wounded in battle in Vietnam I also have to quit watching this debacle. Unless these women send their own kids or grandkids there they need to shut up and listen for once.
@@davidbates7429 No! Not their kids! They themselves should join the Ukrainian frontline troops. They need to learn first hand what they are talking about. I don't know their kids, they might even be decent peace loving human beings like You and me, who do not share their mother's cynical views. So please leave them out of this!🤠
Well, it's really painful and uncomfortable to watch two female bureaucrats "teaching" a lieutenant colonel who was in the war how to fight and what it takes to win.
If average age of soldier is 43, they hardly qualify as "youth". But I agree that in the eyes of Western elites these people are definitely expendable as long as their demise will bring them profits.
@@joeyjoejoe314 The women are on a mission and have precise instructions from the warmonger neocons but the "opposing team" of Mearsheimer and Davis appeared weak and intimidated. They are far more knowledgeable and logical but had no guts to answer back. You cannot oppose fanatic people like the two women with gentle and soft arguments. Example: when the women said that Russia did not follow the Minsk agreement, Mearsheimer and Davis could have mentioned the Angela Merkel interview when she stated that the agreements were intended to trick Russia. But although they knew that well, they just swallowed their tongue.
@@joeyjoejoe314 To the other repliers point, just imagine if you are anti-ukraine aid in the WH and u try to make that argument, or in the pentagon, i suppose...
@@joescott8877 anyone with morals couldn't work in either of those buildings. These two buildings have to have the combined record for most war criminals produced. I guess that's the point of the big salary and how debt is so easy to obtain in this country. If people's livelyhood depends on keeping a job, they will look the other way while crimes against humanity happen. I would really like to be a proud American one day. I was (when I knew less), now I am not proud, but I think the USA has the capability to make me proud. I am not looking to anyone my age or older for guidance though, the world is fucked up and we are all at least partially to blame. We need to look at our youngest and think about how we need to look out for their future, both foreign and domestically - because currently...... it sucks.
If Ukraine was a sovereign and free country there would be no war. The US takeover of Ukraine in 2014, and the cynical use of Ukrainian lives to bolster the profits of US military-industrial complex is contemptible.
And when the MIC is through, then companies like Halliburton, BlackRock, and Monsanto move in for their feasting off of the carcass. Also, the real reason the elites and politicos in the West hate Putin is he is not their little b*TCh and so is stopping them from plundering Russia's resources.
Millie made the claim about Kiev in 4 days. Nobody in Russia made that claim. Literally every word out of these women's mouth is a demonstrable falsehood.
As a veteran it makes me sick to hear people call this a great investment. We see veterans arguing for peace, and the elites talk about how much money this makes for the American people.
@Wolfvain-qs5su Sure, but the money does not benefit the American people. Several thousand workers get paid that is very little benefit for the American people at large.
I'm old enough to remember when Ukraine sent a missile into Poland and killed two farmers. Then Zelensky screamed article 5 despite not even being in NATO wanting US to nuke Russia
As a veteran, I do not want to hear from two rich, upper class women about duties and obligations to fight to the end. Neither of these women have ever gotten their hands dirty, shouldered a weapon, humped a ruck for hours with their feet in the mud or felt the fear of possible death from a skilled enemy intent on killing them. They are just dealing in delusional abstractions that get delegated down to the little people, the NPCs (in their minds) that do the fighting, killing and dying. The callousness inherent in their arguments is evil. The Ukrainians are simply pawns in their game that we pretend to care about while we're cashing MIC checks. I wonder how supportive they would be about holding the line for another two years until some notional counter-offensive happens if it was their asses in the trench. Something tells me their outlook would change if they had FPV drones raining down while an armored column was rumbling towards them. The only people that believe in the bravery of fighting for a lost cause are the people not doing the fighting.
They're what's known as "rich", or minions of the truly rich. Capitalism working as intended 👍We're all just play things to the millionaires and billionaires. Why do you think the US hates communism so much? Because the rich who control us told us we do. _"War Is a Racket"_ --Smedley D. Butler, Decorated WW1 US Marine Corps Major General Now China is threatening their wealth/power, so the neocon (Democrat/Republican, they're both bought and paid for, the president doesn't matter) plan was to break up Russia then "Pivot to Asia" (Notice how that's been going on under Obama/Trump/Biden; they're not the ones running the show) and have China surrounded on both sides to destroy it, perishing dozens of millions in the process. So that these psychopaths can come in and start buying up land and resources and own the place. To have total world domination. And you're going to be poor and maybe even fight and die for them to accomplish it. But you'll do it anyway, because they're gonna tell you, "You're doing it for your country!" Some people who have nothing else in life to be proud of eat that sh*t up. But the rich are the ones who made it so you have nothing else to be proud of. They made you poor. They made your family poor. They made your city poor. They made your country poor. Not some migrants, who are only coming here because the rich made their country even more poor than yours. But that wont work on enough people, so they need you to be poor, so you'll do it to try to get out of poverty, to try to get an education; the "poverty draft".
Your post clearly tells a lot about YOU. You described those women with one of the most negative expression (sociopaths) because you're naturally positioned on the opposite side of the spectrum of where they are in the human quality, meaning, you're a normal decent human with an irresistible capacity of sympathy, empathy and logic. You'd always respect NORMAL people.
two military guys are saying that there's no way one side can win, and two ladies who most probably don't even own a gun claim that the victory is possible. I wonder about the mental capabilities of those who believe the ladies
Those two women are Starbucks dwellers. In fact after this debate they went to Starbucks to reflect on their performance. Makes me sick in the stomach listening their childish, CNN type sound bites.
Dollars cannot fight war You need men for that! - Professor Meirshiemer The problem here is very clear. At the policy making level, they don’t want to consider military advice ( capability & art of possible) but would rather go their own merry ways to satisfy their dystopian goals. Clearly they think Pentagon works for them as a servant boy and not the other way around.
Like Victoria Nuland, Dobriansky’s family came from Ukraine. This is personal for her and her bias is clouding her ability to see the situation as to what is in the strategic interest of the U.S.
@seanlevoy9446 All the comments on this thread are unanimously against the two women. But the moderator was also somewhat hostile and the applauses in the auditorium were more approving when any of the two women spoke. The overall impression was that Mearsheimer and Col Davis were set up to face an unsympathetic audience and Mearsheimer usually very articulate appeared quite shy and reluctant to come out strongly in support of his arguments. Maybe it became clear from early on that the two women were not going to be receptive to any rational argument.
The argument of the two women is so inhuman, selfish and ethical, morally repulsive, I really don't have the words The comparison with World War II also shows me what it was really about back then. Destruction and profit. Nord Stream sends its regards 😮
@@Reflection_N sadl, yes. There was a part of me that wished our new equal society would bring forward the traditional feminine desire towards compromise, and harmony. I'm losing hope.
Justifying support for war on the basis of stimulating the U.S. economy is grotesque. Yuck. Mask off moment for the two women on the stage. Good job by LTC Davis and the professor; rooted in reality.
Btw - Paula Dobriansky is UKRAINIAN. Her grandparents were born in Ukraine. Her father - who I knew at GWU - and the Amb. only got into diplomacy to screw over Russia. This is a problem in our foreign policy establishment (Blinken, Nukand). Ditto on Conley. Zero life experience. Without Russia she would be looking for work as a librarian. (I know of her because we share an alma mater SAIS).
@WalterKitchenman Exactly, and Victoria Nuland came also from the same background. These people must have had some status in Ukraine and lost it when the Soviet Union marched in on the way to Berlin. There is a whole group of such people who have kept an unlimited anger against the Russians who made them loose their privileged status by implementing communism in those lands. Their deep resentment prevents them from seeing the reality of the changing history but are in a position to influence our foreign policy. I can't help but remembering a French movie from the mid sixties, "The war is over" describing a group of Spanish refugees in France following the Civil War and continuing to plot childish sabotage actions against Franco. Except that the two women are far more dangerous.
As a British person watching, I find the 'no' pretentious and weak, if you watch them they seem obsessed with audience reaction, scribbling with pens and paper, doing similtanious water sipping, looking at notes, it's weak, stop the funding, make the peace, stop the racism against Russians
"They choose to die for their freedom ..." - immediately triggers the images of three guys loading an Ukrainian into the van to be shipped of to the frontlines ... Btw, great job, guys!
Daniel and John exchanged glances a few times and could not believe the quality of the debate on the other side. The quality of such people show why we suck in diplomacy. Military people arguing with civilians. The civilians do not know what it takes to win a war.
they don't know, what it takes to fight a war. War costs so much that it should only be faught as ultimo ratio, when it is inevitable - but not onnly to feed to feed the MIC and the donors. All average US-Americans pay as taxpayers for this war for the profit of few investors and workers - this war is not economy booster for all - the blood price pays not Selenskyj and his Regime, the blood price pay the ukrainian soldiers, woh desert in large numbers. Russia is not the USSR, but in Ukraine is very much more USSR an "Gulag" left than in the Russian Federation.
Women (who conveniently don´t serve at the front) hawkish and pro war against men who know what endless war is, what soldiers endure and who seek peace. Interesting.
The ladies are influenced by Russophobia they are not objective. Dr. Mearsheimer is the expert, with full knowledge and expertise. He has given facts. My admiration and respect.
I don't think they have Russophobia, they may not even stand for anything. Their concern is the narrative sides created in DC and they are part of that. They do not know anything outside of that, nothing, nada, zip. If you ask them anything about Ukraine the country, they would not tell you one lousy thing.
What these ladies are taking about is either full NATO involvement, meaning US soldiers on the ground in Ukraine dying, or a nuclear exchange with Russia.
The moderator did a nice job summarizing the 'No' points, claiming: -Something about shared values -Good return on investment -Creating US jobs -It's actually not very much money in the first place -Other people's soldiers are dying (not ours) The MBA-ification of foreign policy. Interesting.
Should U.S. Fund UKRAINE WAR ? The answer is simple and logical. No!. due to several reasons, and some of them are, Ukraine, They are not an ally of anyone, nor does it belong to the European Union, and not even a NATO member. more, Ukraine does not have the necessary man power, not weapons, not ammunition, neither produce them. Ukraine should surrender! The Catholic leader, 87, told a Swiss broadcaster that Ukraine should negotiate with Russia and raised the idea of surrender.
Great opportunity for a “cheap”, but very valid, shot at this Julia woman. Can’t believe she used the 90% of Uke aid goes to American factories and workers argument! I remember Dan Rowan (of LaughIn fame, remember him?) playing a U.S. army general (during the Vietnam war, no less!) spouting “War is good business!” Sound familiar? Now, this second chick is spouting “the domino theory”, if the Ukes fold! I’m literally ROFL!
China is Taiwan...most of the fighting against Japan was done by the nationalists.. they only won because they were to cowardly to fight the Japanese on a large scale like nationalist
Putin will protect their borders. Just like we would. The longer Ukraine continues this Putin will have to move forward. Not by choice but by necessity.
Wow those ladies got rekt! This was incredibly lopsided. You did good Danny, though your eagerness made you a bit impolite for such a formal setting. We could all tell you were frustrated, understandably so. You look stronger as a debater to maintain an aura of grounded calm though.
Recent DoD audits found the U.S. military spends $7 to $25 for every $1 spent by Russia or China, for the SAME end product (shells, weapons, vehicles, etc). Why? How? What does this mean, in real terms?
It means they went to Ukraine started the trouble that started the war the knew they can not win and at the same time make huge profits 9One toilet seat costs thousands of dollar's for USA military)???
Those women are really idealistic, but they don’t have a strategy for victory! The men, who both have served in the armed forces, actually know what they are talking about and understand the severity of the Ukraine situation!
Why should Russia ever consider giving the Crimean peninsula back to Ukraine? The fact of the matter is that Crimea, historically was always a part of Russia,[damn it there was the well known Crimean war in the 1860's between Britain, Russia and the old Ottoman empire].. so it was only given as a gift to Ukraine in 1956 by Nikita Kruschev as he was from there. Crimea was only annexed due to the coup d'etat against Victor Yanukovich's incumbency in early 2014...
It was given within the administrative context of USSR, Khrushchev never expected that the USSR would fall or that Ukraine would become an adversarial state
The debate was highly interesting , two former military personnel, experienced in the harsh realities of conflict, advocating for peace. In stark contrast, two politicians, whose expertise lies in economic management, argued for continued military engagement, driven by financial motives. This contrast highlighted the profound divide between firsthand war experiences and political-economic calculations.
Wov. That woman clearly represents large capital involved in this war - military facilities interests - so putting an argument that lifes of ukranians will help to reequip arsenals and make profits of those companies is ok from that perspective, but inhumane.
You're on the right side of history Daniel. I supported the United States Army for 36 years and have watched all the while how we have waged (un)holy wars all over the globe. These wars all about maintaining the global ponzi banking system. The great awakening is happening and the Babylonians are getting very nervous.
This debate was exceptionally helpful. The voice of reason vs the voice of DC swamp. And the swamp has the actual levers of power. How long can the US stay a vibrant democracy with such leadership?
But Ukraine is NOT an independent nation! It’s 100% depends on financial and military support from US and the west! And it hasn’t been an independent sovereign state since 2014, when YS overthrew democratically elected government!
Man, the pro war side written their closing statements expecting a completely different arguments and ended up looking like psychopaths. I had chills when the last lady said "willing to die". It's like a scene from a movie where she's the villain justifying her philosophy
She has hoisted herself on her own Petar. Aid to Ukraine feeds the killing. While America sits and enjoys the carnage. American lack of diplomacy&strategic failures have brought the world to the brink
I cannot understand Dobriansky bottom argument. First it is that Putin will invade NATO countries, then it is because Russia's neighbours are nervous, and then it is not about territory. So... what is it about?
Its about her family butt hurt against Russia, same as Nuland, Blinkens, Plinkens Schminkens that made a nest in the State Department. US is dragged into a possible nuclear war for the 100 years old grievances of certain individuals.
