DC-DC CHARGERS. Victron VS Redarc How to chose the right one for you.  

Had I been Australian or living there, I'd choose them to for that exact reason.👍 In Northern Europe however, Victron is my choice.

The people working in Adelaide mean just as much to me as the people who build Victron, wherever they are. We’re all equal. (I’m from Vic)

100%, but there are applications where one is better than the other. I use redarc in my ute and did have in my boat but had to change to victron in the boat as I have a lithium Start battery and the victron allows me to setup/edit the voltages to better suit charging from lithium start battery.

Redarc has a brilliant after sale service 😊

Redarc are a rip off There 3000w inverter is nearly 3000 dollars .... That's not even in the ballpark of a value proposition You can nearly buy an all in one solar generator with a 3000w inverter inbuilt for that price 🤣 I could believe something being double or triple the price of an alternative But 10 times the cost There taking people who buy the stuff as sucker's

🙄

The solar input on the Ctek 250's only allows max 23V, so your missing out on the ability to connect the panels in series. I've got the D250SE and Smartpass 120S on one of my trucks and it works great as a DC-DC charger and battery separator.

@@lag_profil Not a big deal for me with my solar setup, and honestly, it’s not a big deal in general for these smaller systems.

That is a very good combo. Good value, works well, and a simple solution.

@@4xoverland yep. Wired up efficiently, my little 50ah amptron runs, fridge, charges drones, phones, cams etc. Being smart with power usage, I never come close to running out of power. Great efficient products.

@@barry422 yeah i can get 50ah to last a week sometimes.

Agreed, if you want longevity with power electronics, go with the equipment rated for higher temperature. It should have Electrolytic Caps with higher temperature specs, and these are the devices that always fail with time.

If you're seeing temps of 60 Degrees Celsius in your canopy presumably with a fridge inside of it as well and doing nothing to bring those temps down to a sensible level then you have more serious issues to solve than what brand to choose based merely on upper temperature thresholds. There is nothing stopping anyone that uses Victron controllers from adding a cheap computer fan behind them for peace of mind. You can even find people 3D printing mounting brackets for such fans to Victron controllers. I have several Victron controllers (very large system) and have never had the need to do anything so drastic as to add additional cooling directly to them. However, it's a non factory option if people want to do it. In the real world the 55 Degrees Celsius is not a problem if your system is designed properly with due consideration to ventilation and heat dissipation from everything running or not that is kept inside a canopy, including storage of food. In the real world of recent past when the Redarc controllers were first designed and made, it was probably for an under bonnet installation where the second battery (lead acid based) may also be under the bonnet. However, even though the controller is rated to 80 Degree's Celsius to cope with under bonnet temperatures it was always of dubious value and more of a sales gimmick considering that lead acid based batteries have increased resistance to charge as temperature increases. Without utilization of a temperature probe to battery to throttle back output of controller you damage the battery in the long term anyway. Then there was very few deep cycle lead acid based batteries rated for under bonnet installation anyway, let alone lithium. So, we get away from installing the aux battery under bonnet and into the vehicle where it also makes sense to put the dc-dc as close as possible to the aux battery to eliminate incorrect battery voltage readings of the dc-dc due to voltage drop over cable length between main and aux batteries. I cannot even fathom why someone would need a controller rated to 80 Degrees Celsius today given the fact that they are typically now fitted to anywhere but the engine compartment. Most controllers now made are not rated to such a high temp figure, nor are they water proof because realistically there is no need for it. It matters not that Redarc "can handle the heat better" when everything around it, and connected to it in someway, cannot!. You might want to research the typical operating and charge temp range of lithium batteries, and you'll find they are around the same operating temps of controllers such as the Victron and many others. The BMS would likely shutdown the battery if it saw temps anywhere near 80 Degrees Celsius. Your fridge would cark it, and canned food would be slowly cooking by itself. BTW, that Victron 100/20 controller Andrew is holding will happily run all day at it's max output (20 amps 282 watts or so) achieved by over paneling by a couple of hundred watts of extra solar and it draws what it can to it's rating and dissipates heat well. The Redarc units in my opinion, are outdated, too expensive and lack modern features. The only remaining reason someone might still want to buy them is because of supporting an Australian product.

@@erroneouscode Those temps I gave are just the closed canopy temps with nothing running inside of it to give additional heat, in full sun. My canopy is not permanently connected so I just view it as a load, no dc-dc charges or batteries connected inside. My dc-dc charger is installed under the vehicle tray which remains at ambient temps along with the batteries, and any other electronic gear. The ute is the powerhouse, the canopy is just a load, in more ways than one. Redarc in no way are outdated, I like to keep my installation simple and hassle free, and the operating temps of 80 degrees Celsius are a must in my view, if your going to run them in a canopy, or enclosed environment where temps are likely to be excessively high. Heat stress is a big factor on life expectancy of discrete components in the electronics world, I've seen enough Data Sheets in my time to know better.

I’m keeping an eye on my ctek as it was in my old Ute tub for 4 years and now been under my bonnet for another 4 years, so far it’s been fine but I only run a fridge and never needed to check it’s efficiency but I’m definitely curious as to how well it’s really running

@@DMSVICAU No mate, these are all battery packs he's talking about. He made a mistake saying generator

Seperate chargers are actually better for efficiency.

And if you add the prices together of 2 seperate units, it’s the same as buying a dcdc that has mppt solar built in

ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-UCLyTD4pqbg.html 2 x 30 Amp DC/DC chargers

I can only answer for victron as is what I installed. If you buy the Isolated 18/18 or 30/30 you only need to connect it to your starter battery With a fuse. The charger will feel the generator automatically and regulate the voltage and current can only flow one way as it is isolated so you never have to worry about draining the house battery. It id simple as : starter battery-> Victron Orion-> house battery. Hope that helped

Also if one panel in a parallel system gets shaded you still get charge from the other panel / panels

@@ajf9034 Yes very true, I forgot about that.

Pretty sure the whole point of MPPT is to take excess volts and turn it into amps at 12v. So I don't think it's true to say a parallel system would deliver more amps.

Panels wired in parallel will deliver higher amps at lower voltage to the MPPT charge controller. Panels wired in series will deliver lower amps at higher voltage to the MPPT solar charge controller. The solar charge controller will convert either to the appropriate voltage to charge your battery bank. Lower amps at higher voltage allows the solar charge controller to run mor efficiently, delivering more power to your battery. It also allows for the wiring between the panels and the solar charge controller to be smaller while still safe, which is easier to run. Having used both the solar charge controller built into a DC-DC charger and a Victron 100V|30A, the Victron is far more efficient. That said, installation is more involved. It has nothing to do with sun time, it has everything to do with the inherent efficiencies of MPPT, which work better with higher voltage.

@@jaredsimpson3798 Thanks Jared, there's no better knowledge than first hand experience! What would a shade patch partially covering one panel do to that arrangement?

Yes, and no. Depends on your needs.

Higher voltages (panels connected is series) will always produce less voltage drop than lower voltages (panels connected in parallel) for the same power output, due to the I squared times R factor = power loss along the cable due to its resistance. ie: by increasing the voltage potential and decreasing the current flow, you end up with a more efficient system because it produces less heat and less losses (at least until they invent the super conductor), no matter what brand you use. That's why power transmission lines are high voltage and low current in order to reduce power loss. I^2 X R = Power loss.

I decided to compare these two because they are probably the most well used, and both bestsellers. I did not compare them to other makes because these are the two of three that I have had personal experience of.

Thanks Daniel. I am about to buy and you saved me from wasting money.

What channels have shown that?

@@justasix8815 here’s one ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-ZNvIV8X3CGc.html

Redarc addressed this in a 2021 model update.

Not the Redarc DC-DC charger. I'm not comparing the Red Vision or Manager30.

@@4xoverland well I'm saying that the victron doesn't have the cerbo screen. The Orion doesn't actually communicate with a cerbo at all, just the shunt does in the BMV-712

This was a comparison of two similar products. And if I mentioned the Redvision I'd then have to mention the Cerbo GX. This was never meant to be a buyers' guide. Yes. I had a Redvision in my DreamTourer. Didn't like the interface at all.

Play with the settings. The start and stop have voltage parameters. I found it confusing to start with but it seems better with lower start voltage than the stock setting. Cheers

The Orions get extremely hot so make sure it is installed in a well ventilated area, preferably on a metallic surface that acts as a heatsink. You may even have to use a small fan depending on where it is installed. Also It is imperative that the correct size guage of cable is used when wiring from alternator to Orion and from the Orion to Aux Battery to allow for voltage drop and max current flow. With those factors in mind you should be able to achieve 28-32 amps every time.

@@12v_obsession92 thanks for the info. I'm working on a fan cooling for the 12v box. As for cable size, I'm running 16mm2 for cable from front to dcdc and to battery including ground. The alternator/main battery drops to 12v then the Victron cuts out, the voltage increases to 14v and Victron cuts in and repeat at idle. New 550?CCA battery and alternator plus added extra grounds on engine to battery and chassis. No change.

that is true.

No. But neither should be fitted there. The high temperatures will decrease efficiency. And by a lot!

Victron do not have a combined alternator/solar charger. But keep them separate! Just add a victron DC-DC charger for alternator charging.

@@4xoverland Would I then take the pos & neg from the the mppt and wire them into the same pos neg ports of the victron dcdc that the alternator is wired to as well? Or have the mppt go straight to my aux battery And also have the dcdc separate going also to aux battery not combing the wires at all.? Thank you so much for your response

You are going to need more than 30A charger for 800W solar. Get a dedicated 100A solar MPPT charger. Recommend Victron.

@@4xoverland thanks for your reply. What about the redarc 40 amp charger 😒

It does, but I'd argue victron does it better (imo) and at $500 it's a very good solution. Vs the manager30 at $3000 and your limited to 30A charging.... all in one solutions rarely do all things well.

@@Sethjxl not only that, victron offer the cerbero software for free which can be installed on a $100 raspberry Pi

@@Sethjxl Do you need to have the REDARC Manager30 too, if you wish to use the REDARC Redvision?

When the Charger is turned on, it will start ramping current from 0A up to the full rated current, this is called Soft-Start and usually takes around 30 seconds. Once the full rated current is reached the charger will move into Boost stage. The Boost stage maintains a constant current until the battery voltage reaches its Absorption Voltage. The current in Boost stage may vary during operation in order to maintain safe operating temperature, or to limit the difference between input and output voltages. The Charger will then move to Absorption stage which maintains a constant voltage level for a predetermined period of time or until the current being drawn by the output battery drops to less than 4A for 30 seconds; after which the Charger will enter Float stage. Float stage maintains 13.3V (13.6V for LiFePO4) on the output battery, keeping the battery topped up. This counteracts the battery’s self discharging or loads applied to the battery. When the battery loses charge, the Charger will move back into the Boost stage. The misconception of a 2 in 24 limit comes from a couple people who don't understand they're measuring the boost and absorption stages. Battery packs can only efficiently take a high current for a limited time before the chemistry of the cells become maxed out. Pushing extra current in only creates more heat and potential damage at this point, hence the absorption phase. The first section is a direct copy from the readily available user manual online. I'm not connected with redarc, I'm a customer who will read all of the available literature on various brands before purchase of significant cost.

@@rustymozzy i will stick with other brands .I've never had over heating issues and I get more than 2 hours charging with out it stopping charging my battery thanks..and I know how the charging system works thank you

@Grant Saywell sorry, I read your comment as a question, not as a statement. For anyone else who has a question about the 2-hour limit, the answer is - it depends. If you want to charge fast with no regard to the longevity of your battery bank, you can charge at high current as long as you wish with an old school non regulated battery charger. If you want to maintain a long-term reliable system, charging at high current is wastefully inefficient and ages your bank. Redarc maintain a maximum current until the bank has a level of charge, and then the charger maintains a maximum voltage. Think about drinking a bucket of water. You can probably drink a few glasses straight up, and then you're going to struggle to keep drinking at the same rate. You can then slow down and drink at a constant steady rate and work your way through the rest of the bucketful. If your battery bank requires 50+ amps for longer than a few hours at a time, you either need to have more charging capacity than either of these units or look into running a higher voltage battery system.

@Grant Saywell what other brands, please?

No just the redarc

I'm guessing as it's a competitor to his egon hub.

@@justasix8815 manager 30 would most likely be useable with his hub, comes from redarc with a shunt and an AC input

Because this is a comparison between two specific DC-DC chargers. The Manager 30 is not a Egon competitor. The Manager is a switcher. The EGON is a fuse hub.

You should go and look at Mastervolt, Victron is well known in the vehicle industry, but Mastervolt have been building incredible products more focussed on the marine environment. There products cross into vehicles and you will see many builds using them now.

>>>Sure, more expensive, but buy once, by right and no worries

And so do Victron. This was a comparison between two similar products. It does not try and provide a buyers guide to DC-DC chargers as a whole.

That was my own installation in progress. By looking at the cables ties unfastened, it should have been obvious for such a well trained eye as yours.

EGON is not represented in South Africa. Try www.4xoverland.com/shop/

In that case, I have also done hundreds of other dc-dc chargers a diservice too. This was a comparison between two similar products. It does not try and provide a buyers guide to DC-DC chargers as a whole.

@@4xoverland your video is comparing Victron vs Redarc?

My video is comparing their DC-DC chargers. Not their other products. Add the Redvision, then I must add the CerboGX. When would it end? When is enough?

That makes no sense. The Redarc DC-DC is smaller than the Victron, and includes the MPPT charge controller.

Why with their lithium profile?