I don't understand John why you fought Rob so hard on this... I remember when other studios after the Avengers came out, rushing to create their own cinematic universes, and failed flat on their faces, and sometimes without even having started yet! I remember ppl calling them out on their failures and rightfully so! What Kevin Feige made out of himself is just "INCREDIBLE"! I personally think for WB to succeed, they gonna have to hire one of Kevin Feige's underlings, if they can't get the man himself, because of everything Rob explained.
@@bazookatooth That's how he came across for me too! It's like he wasn't even listening to what Rob was even trying to say.. Many studios try to replicate what Feige did/do and failed miserably! And the reasons why were in Robert's expose of Kevin Feige career. But again he wasn't paying attention...
I gotta hugely disagree with y’all right now. Normally, I too would get annoyed by John cutting Rob off. Rob’s the man. HOWEVER, I _really_ don’t see wtf y’all are talking about in this case. If anyone has jumped in to cut the other off in this clip, it’s Rob. And when you keep saying “I’m JUST saying” like 6 times, but every time what you’re “just saying” is different, it usually means your argument is a little messy. Truly, Rob’s my fav person on this show. I understand your guys’ sentiment, but I think you’re completely wrong in this case. I think Rob has tried to cut in way more, I think his argument is incorrect in this case, and I think his point keeps morphing. John said it best at the end: “yes, there’s no other Kevin Feige right now, but there are several people right now who are Kevin Feige from a decade ago.”
It's been proven john cant be number 2. Robs' opinion is full of facts, you just have to listen. Rob clearly said that there isnt a "feige" at WB. Which is a fact lol. The odds are not in Zavlovs' favor lol. John got so challenged that he started to nitpick Robs' words as mini victories 😂😂
Rob is right when he says there's not another Kevin Feige. John is right when he says they don't need to find somebody exactly like Feige. I think Ray was more on to the solution than he realized when he brought up Harry Potter. The success of the Wizarding World movie franchise is due to producer David Heyman. Heyman took the first Harry Potter book to Warner Bros. as a property to be adapted, and he has shepherded all (now) 11 movies. He is not the head of Wizarding World Studio solely in charge of only those movies. He has his own production studio that has made a lot of different movies. But Harry Potter and Fantastic Beasts are the main movies he produces. DC needs a producer to shepherd all of their movies, and Kevin Feige is a good example of how to do it, but he can't be replicated. So don't look for the next Kevin Feige. Look for the right person to guide DC. Who that is, I don't know, but good luck to them.
@@weedtalk87 It needs to be a producer who can devote most if not all of their time to behind the scenes stuff, not a director who want to make various movies. So I don't think Christopher Nolan, Zack Snyder, James Gunn, etc. be in charge of DC movies (nor do I think Jon Favreau should be in charge of Star Wars).
@@briansayles1615 exactly people say directors but they need someone who won’t be biased they don’t need James Gunn, because he’ll only make the movies fun like suicide squad, Snyder would make all the movies really dark and Any comic book weighted would push for there books to be made into movies.
@@briansayles1615 how about a committee instead of just one person? A combination of people who are filmmakers, DC fans with credentials, and established comic book writers. Or hell, a combination of nerds/geeks and film savvy people. Because the problem is you got a bunch of out of touch, soulless, corporate suits with too much input.
I hear what Rob was trying to say and agree with him and think John wasn't hearing Rob's point and instead assumed certain variables and kept thinking Rob was saying something that he wasn't. John's focus was that with the new DC leadership will come a new creative ENVIRONMENT, and Rob agreed, but went deeper to say that even though the "environment" will be different, you still need the "Right Person" IN that environment who is comparable to Feige. But there really isn't anyone out there with the experience that Feige already had in 2008 when starting the MCU, which gave him the vision for an interconnected universe, as well as the recognition of sucesses and failures in the original Marvel projects like X-men and Spider-Man, which he would apply moving forward.
Is Kevin Feige that much of an outlier / unicorn than nobody in the whole of the entertainment industry has any (if not all) the skills needed to do a job like he's done? Rob's premise (reasoned as it is) seems a bit hard to believe.
@@GlareBoxTV all franchises come off the rails eventually- name one that hasn’t - Marvel is the only franchise I can think of that spans 24 films without a misstep
I admire John’s optimism in thinking that another Kevin Feige type of producer is possible. But ultimately I agree with Rob’s argument, Feige was forged in a perfect storm of other people’s comic book movies before he set off to produce his own. A nerd fan might not be a talented producer, a seasoned producer might not have a keen eye for creative talent, Kevin Feige is ALL of these. It’s gonna be incredibly difficult to find another like him.
I’ve been watching this guy for years and when it comes to debating, Campea can’t conduct one without throwing subtle jabs at the persons he’s debating with lol. Good on Rob for not getting emotional and sticking to the point he was making. Great debate
Rob's point is that WB will either have to settle with a creative visionary that is inexperienced in cultivating a cinematic universe OR a studio executive that could cultivate a cinematic universe with a lack of creative vision. Kevin Feige is a unicorn. He has both creative vision and experience. There is no one else in the world that can do what Kevin Feige does, period. Yes, Zaslav is making great strides to improve the studio and give the properties the respect they deserve, BUT he is not going to find someone like Kevin Feige to run DC. It just isn't going to happen. Now, to agree with John a bit, I think that if you had to pick one, you pick the creative visionary. They'll get experience along the way and the universe may be a little rough at first, but at least they'll have someone that understands the material.
No one else in the world... There are two major comic book studios MCU and dceu. That's it. Kevin Feige is good at what he does for the MCU. They have an agenda Kevin stated in 2017 he was never a comic book fan growing up. He got into the comic films only. Kevin is good at comic book marvel films. That's it
This was so uncomfortable to watch. Not only does Rob have a valid argument. He did so and remained completely pleasant, despite John’s off putting tone!
I agree with Rob. I don't think anyone realizes how difficult it is to creatively direct a series of movies, while also being a movie producer. Kathleen Kennedy had all the indications that someone could do this, but she clearly didn't have a creative vision. Someone like James Gunn or Jon Favreau seem like they could do it, but I don't know if they can produce movies at this level and be a studio head as well.
Rob is 💯% right . To think WB can find another Fiege is silly as he is the first one on the history of Hollywood to do what he has done. To think another one will just pop up is silly . More than likely we will never see someone like him again
Rob is realistic, John speaks out of non-existent hypotheticals. Until WB proves they've changed, they have not earned the benefit of the doubt. This is why he's usually wrong in the end.
It's literally painful listening to John's argument here. I get that he loves dc, but I'm not sure he's looking at this objectively. Rob isn't arguing the points that John's making... but time will tell. Getting "there will NEVER be a snyder cut" vibes.
While I can appreciate John's POV, Rob's more right in this debate. In sports, everyone wants to find the next Michael Jordan, LeBron James, Tom Brady, etc. when you can't really do that because you'd have to recreate the same conditions that forged those people into who they are, which is VERY difficult.
Lol I agree with the premise that it’s hard to recreate those people but I’d argue it’s more about the talent then the circumstances . It’s not many people 6’10” with unbelievable athleticism ball Handling and court vision. Even if you were to have someone grow up in the exact same conditions as lebron with the same work ethic . The likelihood off then checking all the boxes from a talent standpoint alone is slim to none and that goes for most legendary athletes . I know we don’t like to admit it nowadays but some people are just born “better” than some of us will ever be at things no matter how much effort we put it in.
THIS IS PERFECTLY SAID, to create unicorns like Micheal Jordan (or in this case Feige) you need every possible variable/condition to line up as they did for those people
@@melohopkins5480 I may not have been clear , but when I mentioned "recreate the same conditions" I meant including the physical talents as well. I mean that EVERYTHING would have to be copied inorder to have a chance of creating the SAME result. Of course not being 6’10” with unbelievable athleticism ball handling skills and court vision would stop someone (even with the same life experiences) from having the same success. Just like there are a lot of guys in the NBA who 6'10 and taller who are not as good as he is.
@@barak-rocky-giles2081 I agree . I still think putting someone in charge even if they aren’t as good as Kevin has more upside then how they’ve been running . I praise the MCU because even tho some movies aren’t my favorite they still hav a standard of quality they never drop below and follow a vision . With DC and even with Sony super hero movies you never know what you’re gonna get from a quality standpoint . So I’m all for someone taking over . If it doesn’t work it doesn’t work but it’s not like everything’s been working for them as is . Lol
John is acting and behaving like the studios meaning he has to be right and you can't disagree with him without him getting upset and has to have the last word. Instead of arguing and wanting to be right he should have simply said "I hoping they will succeed under this new structure" rather than wanting everyone in the room to agree with him. Too much Pride reigned over this conversation.
Kevin Feige is an anomaly. Rob is correct, the stars aligned to build Feige into being the only one to create the MCU. There are people that can't land one and done trilogies and yet this man spearheaded 14 years worth of cultural zeitgeist that has never been done in the history of film before. People can study it, learn from it, most will try and replicate it, but there is only ever going to be one MCU and one Kevin Feige.
Sorry Rob is right on this point WB will struggle to find a head honcho comparable to Kevin Feige. Hate the way John completely dismisses Rob’s opinion. But I agree with John that we have to be optimistic going forward…time will tell.
Kevin Feige is exceptional. He will go down as one of the greatest filmmakers of all time. He is truly among the greats who changed cinema forever (just like Spielberg and Lucas did). Rob is right. WB cannot find someone like him just like no one can find someone like Spielberg. WB will have to find their own unique strategy to harmoniously connect the DC films. DC movies are so arrogantly fractured that you're going to need a team of creatives to figure out what to do next.
@@Zethonring23 critics said the same thing about Star Wars and Indiana Jones. I meant that the impact Feige had on the film industry is undeniable. Cinema changed as is evident in other studios following the shared universe paradigm.
I got to agree with Rob here. There is no one like Fiege. Not to say there can't be. But there isn't at this point. No one has been able to do whatbjebhas done with Marvel. They have all tried. Universal Monsters, SnyderVerse, Sony Amazing SpiderVerse, Godzilla and the Monster Verse. None of them have worked. Some have been ok, and made money, but have not done what Marvel and Fiege can do.
The way that John keeps talking over Rob, while missing the point that Rob is making, is atrociously annoying. MARVEL STUDIOS produced Iron Man and The Incredible Hulk before being acquired by Disney. They already had Iron Man 2 in production when the Disney acquisition went down. So, they were proving their ability to make films that could make money at the box office. That success afforded Fiege the leeway to create a film universe with a level of autonomy after the Disney acquisition.
What really makes me laugh is how John starts to pull down Feige's achievements to try and win the argument. "Nobody would look at Feige pre-MCU and say that was a good record"... So I guess John no longer thinks that X2 and Spider-man 2 are "two of the greatest comic book movies of all time"? Or maybe it was Singer & Raimi why they worked, whereas it must've been Feige with sole creative control for Elektra and Blade: Trinity? John really can be a putz at times
I am with Robert Bernett on this argument until I'm proven wrong; Kevin Feige has his "10,000" hours and more to where he was able to learn and create the MCU as we know it. You also have to admit based on the Variety article, David Zaslav is looking for someone who know's how to work synergistically in a corporate structure, and less of a creative guru, which you have to admit Kevin Feige is as much a creative as he is an executive and the probability that Zaslav can find someone with that experience is long. Also Zaslav experience isn't with fiction creation, his experience is overseeing, but not directly producing content that isn't meant for geek culture or fiction. I hope that Zaslav does find someone who can shepherd the new DC branch, but it's a long shot that someone has Feige's experience and can be brought it.
I agree with Rob; the fact that no studio has found a 'Kevin Feige' until now speaks volumes, it highlights the fact that Feige, right now is a one in a million person with the right skills to execute a cinema universe. Harry Potter is nowhere near as complex as the marvel universe, and fantastic beasts, which is part of the Harry Potter universe has failed.
100% agree with Rob here. I think finding Kevin Feigi is impossible but you can find 1-2 guys who might be able to nurture it. Affleck & Smith or Affleck & Damon seem like a great fit.
Fully agree with Rob here. Look at how Star Wars has been mismanaged under disney. It’s one thing to put someone in charge of popular ip, but finding someone as good at what Kevin Feige does is going to be so so difficult for Warner Brothers.
In the end I rarely disagree with John but is wholeheartedly agree with Rob. John is caught up in the flavor of the month and isn't seeing the flaw in his fandom of Zazlaz.
I really liked this debate, however I find that John sometimes leans into attacking the integrity of Rob. I would 100% be down for more long form debate. IF, John can keep more level headed. Great chat guys!
I agree with Rob 100% ,DC maybe find a Kevin Feige ,but they wont find a "ready" Kevin Feige if that what they are looking for.They ll have to search and find a person that they believe he/she deserves to invest in and train him through proccess in order to become the next,their, Kevin Feige.
Looks like all those times that Rob has been silent with a frozen screen of him looking like he wanted to say something the past couple of days have all went into this big debate here haha
Ray couldn’t sit there and watch John get obliterated by Rob’s valid points and calm reasoning. It’s okay to admit when you’ve lost an argument and when you are wrong Campea, jesus. We already lost Kim. Be cool.
Why does it seem that John is getting so offended at Rob’s opinion? I think Rob’s correct, I don’t think there is anyone out there right now who has this financial batting record and is a comic book geek?
Correct. John's coming from the perspective of "Sure, if lightning strikes here once, it can strike here again." For example: In sports, people are always talking about "Who's the next Michael Jordan", "the next LeBron James", "the next Tom Brady", etc. When the answer is that there is no replacement for those people. Inorder to create that same success you need to recreate the whole situation that forged those people and that's just not easy to do.
I hate to say it but John why have 3 other panelists if you're going to monopolize the conversation. You gotta let your other panelists talk. They shouldn't have to fight to get in the conversation. Hopefully this was an outlier. This is my first time watching so I don't know.
I'm sorry, John. I'm siding with Rob on this one. Discovery wants someone like the Kevin Feige that made Iron Man in 2008, and they want him now. It's the last part that's the problem. I'm sure there are dozens and dozens, if not hundreds, of people that could grow into that within five years. But, a fully formed 2008 Feige clone today? Nope, I don't think they exist. I think their best option, if they absolutely want someone that can make a movie within a year, is to find someone creative, with extensive knowledge of the DC Comics Universe, and Hollywood experience. And pair them with a experienced producer. Let them be a producing team for a few movies, and make sure the DC Feige learns producing on the job. Hopefully, they'll be able to run the show on their own after a few years.
@@barry2349 Sure, but that's not really the issue. The question is if their stated goal of finding someone like Kevin Feige to run the DC movie division right now is feasible. I don't really think it is. It'll take time.
John campea is a selfish person who would never admitted even a slight error in his argument. He would never let anyone to beat his argument he's always like that from amc. Saying that Rob is myopic or shortsighted .. hey I wonder who would thought that gal Godot would be a terrible ww and constantly voicing his disapproval even before the movie began shooting
I get what Rob's trying to say. And, I know that this is John Campea's show. But at 14:45 John's being rude, you should let Rob finish his opinion first, especially when John's arguement was misunderstanding from what Rob's going to say.
Part of what made the Marvel films successful is that they had an endgame (not a pun) in their storytelling from the beginning. Kevin Feige made sure that, no matter what story is being told in any individual movie, there was nothing that would contradict anything that has already been shown in previous films while contributing to the over-all big picture story that leads to the endgame.
I think Rob’s point is spot on. I look at Kevin Feige side by side with MARVEL studios as a whole.. he’s grown as the brand has grown and DC keeps looking over at MARVEL, gets the feeling their losing the superhero race, then tries to emulate MARVEL. I think DC dipped off the moment they tried to form the JL in 3 movies without building the universe first. That’s when this ship came off the rails, so to Rob’s point you won’t find ANYONE who stands toe to toe with the current Feige BUT also to John’s point if they pick a well groomed candidate and don’t rush/pressure them to be at current Feige’s level DC can get it back on track quickly. The fan base is STARVING for it look no further than CW at one point they had a better build DC verse than the dang movies and the fans ATE IT UP!!! Also the current batman movie shows that when done right all past wrongs are forgiven lol “WINNING CURES ALL”
I understand what John is saying . But Rob is right not everyone has worked on Movies to know how they work as well as being creative enough to understand the comic book characters. You can’t put a price on the experience gained from him working on real movies.
He wasn't doing it to be rude, the show has to have a time limit because they have to get to the viewer questions. They can't stay in the studio all day. Those studio lights are hot and it can get uncomfortable. Not to mention everyone obviously has to leave and go do things outside of the studio, whether that's personal or professional.
Kathleen Kennedy is a perfect example for Robs argument. She’s either produced or coproduced films like Jurassic Park, Twister, Lincoln & The Sixth Since. And still can’t string together a cohesive universe for Lucas films .
@@berrymckockiner5883 Pixar and Disney Animation are animation. We are talking about live action. It's a whole different beast. And with Marvel, well, we're just gonna get into the Kevin Feige argument again.
@@berrymckockiner5883 I'll believe it when I see it. John said that Zaslav allows the creatives to cook as they please once he has overseers he trusts installed. Let's hope that holds true.
@@berrymckockiner5883 what previous acquisitions, he makes cheap populist reality shows. Waiting for the Becoming Batman reality show or the real Supermen.
I love Rob man and I have to side with him. There is no other Kevin Fiege. Hell, there will probably never be another Fiege. The circumstances by which he was forged were so specific that it’d be hard to replicate (and come out successfully). Kev worked on 14 Marvel films prior to the MCU (as Rob stated)-he worked with the creatives and businessmen, saw firsthand what went right and wrong in their thinking processes, and ultimately used his unique perspective to build a better universe. I’m not aware of anyone at this moment who has done, or is willing to do, the amount of work Kev put into the MCU. What Discovery needs to do is find 2 EXPERIENCED people who can work in tandem: a creative mind who has reverence for the characters and the business savvy person to keep them on track. I think that if they got that, they’d have two halves of the whole Fiege. Allowing them to essentially have four hands steering the ship rather than two.
Agree with Rob here. Kevin Feige is one of a kind. Hard to find someone who’s not only a geek and into the comic material as well as successful in producing films cause he has the resume to back it up
Im with rob on this. What discovery is trying to do is more of a logistics thing. Trying to be cohesive within their departments for the benefit of the whole of DC. But finding a "Feige" for DC is going to be hard (not impossible, but hard). We thought Geoff johns was gonna be that years ago, but sadly his knowledge was only limited to the comics space and a few producer credits and his mentorship with Donner. Fiege on the other hand really understands movie storytelling and what can work. In addition, he really KNOWS marvel. He lives and breathes it. I dont think its impossible that person exist, but it is hard to find cause Studios really do just care about money. So are they going to take a chance, or would they rather take the time to find someone like feige (emphasis on TIME).
I think the problem with John’s argument is that John he’s getting way too over confident in this merger like they’ve done something already.He keeps cutting off Rob telling him “Your talking about the WB from two weeks ago”… well that’s what we have to go off of. Every-time someone comes along in heading DC John says “This is the guy” he did it Kevin Tsujahara in AT&T, Walter Hamada the list goes on and on. What evidence do we have atp to say now they’re gonna go in a new direction? He’s talking as if they’ve already proven themselves with DC, when they just got the company a few weeks ago. All Rob is saying is that we’ve seen this change of leadership thing before and he’s just thinking history will repeat itself.
He saying discovery has proved themselves time and time again. They r successfully organized. This is evidence. It's right there. And since they are the boss they will successfully organize dc. Just like they did with everything else. They have proven themselves.
@@LivinglikeJay-iq3io Just like how we were all confident in Kevin Tsujahara? When they announced 14 movies and said that they were gonna spend a billion dollars in marketing all these films. I’m more of a wait and see guy, than “oooh let’s buy in now.”
@@gabrielbaker7250 Just like how Kevin Tsujahara “proved” himself and John and everybody got excited. We’ve seen this story time and time again. I’m more of a wait and see approach now. I disagree Rob was clearly saying he was not buying in to something we’ve seen before. Although I will say his Kevin Fiege comment even if for the sake of argument let’s say he was right. He never gave an answer to how they can succeed without a “Kevin Fiege” now. But I do agree that I’m not drinking the amounts of Koolaid John, you, and others are drinking yet.
@@atraina6921 what r u talking about, the old wb took control they failed that's true. But ur missing the point, Discovery proved that they could organize successfully. They are not the old wb. We r talking about the studios not who's the Kevin feige of the dceu.
I agree with Rob. "We need a Kevin Feige" has been the primary strategy of every major studio since 2012 and no studio has found one yet. Saying "we need a Kevin Feige" is like saying "we need to make billions of dollars". Edit: A nightmare scenario came into my mind. Imagine if they hire Greg Berlanti who ran the Arrowverse.
JC and RMB need to have another series of weekly shows where they take a topic they disagree on and full on go debate for an hour. I'd watch it hands down.
I have to agree with Rob. What is special about Kevin Feige is that he is a lifelong fan of the material who became a producer and worked on comic book movies and got experience before starting the MCU. WB can find someone to invest in and back, but will they find someone who also has that passion all in one person? I don’t think so. They can maybe find a new way to be successful though, you don’t need a literal 1:1 Kevin Feige. Even from the article John read they are looking for a business savvy person rather than anyone with DC knowledge, unless they have a passion or interest though they won’t understand how to link the movies and have a vision to connect them in that same way as Marvel.
I see where both John and Rob are coming from, and I agree with both to a certain degree. But the one thing that makes me glad to see is DC getting it’s own studio.
Could not agree more with Robert, sure that article sounded good and dandy but going down that route of trying to put a feige like executive in charge, was the exact downfall of wb when AT&T took over. Robert is right, there’s NO ONE ELSE in the industry like Feige - that is exactly why wb needs to stick with giving full creative control to its creatives NOT to some executive in a suit
Great discussion and debate. DC needs a blueprint for creating not just a shared universe but an ecosystem, where actions and consequences gradually grow in scale and reverberate. “Killing” Superman is his second movie was one of the worst decisions. You need to gradually raise the stakes of the conflict and let the geeks who’ve done the homework craft its progression.
He is never wrong and predicts everything right. That’s how he comes off sometimes, I agree. But, we are all that way. Do agree with Robs point on this one.
So refreshing when there is a difference of opinion on this show! 😃 Far to often everyone is on the same level and agree with one another. This was really entertaining, and I hope we get more discussions like this further on! 😊
I love John but he kept trying to set Robs position up as a straw man for an easy takedown and Rob had to keep reiterating that that’s not what he’s trying to say.
Rob has a great point. It took time. It took a guy who is just as immersed in the comic world as everybody else. Time and development was needed in order for a vision to develop. DC is and will be back to square one. It doesn’t have to be… but i think it will in order to create continuity.
Rob is right. Your not gonna find a “Fiege figure” right out of the gate! Heck your gonna have a hard time finding someone who is even like Kevin Fiege! He is who he is because they took their time and now marvels one of the best studios because of his leadership! Warner just wants someone now and it’s not going to happen! If you want a “Fiege figure” then your gonna have to take your time and even then your not gonna be able to completely replicate what he’s done!
They're both missing the fact that Zaslav wants to install a leader in a DC studio to shepard cohesion like a comic book company's editor in chief. They want to let creatives do their thing and make sure it appeals to the audience. I think this approach could work if the filmmakers are the ones who are faithful to characters and make good stories.
Exactly. People saying to John let Rob speak and im like “both of them had their fair share to speak” good debate but I’m with John. Someone in the world can run DC.
sorry John, but im gonna side more with Rob on this one. If there was another Kevin Feige out there, or someone that looks like they could work the blueprint that Feige laid out, we would know who that person is already. We dont, hopefully they can find someone but someone with his current skillset, there is none. he created this style of production, and now people have to emulate it, and thats the task, finding someone that can emulate it.
I think I’m more on the side of Rob in this instance. I agree that there isn’t a person at WB who could fill a Kevin Feige type roll and to counter Johns point that this is a different WB to two weeks ago, we haven’t had enough time with the new leadership to come to that decision. Actions speak louder than words. There could and probably will be another Kevin Feige, but right now I don’t think there is a leading candidate for that role. I would say I think the best thing WB can do is to give it to one person creative control of the DCEU so we get a cohesive vision at least but I feel like that’s what Zach Snyder was even though he was more creative than producer/executive role. Maybe DC needs a different structure than marvel studios ?
40:15 I loved this moment of everyone drawing a blank and then the A-ha moment when they come up with the right name😂 Moments like that make me really like this group as a unit.
Sorry, John. I gotta agree with what Rob is saying. WB is looking for someone like Kevin Feige. That individual doesn’t exist pre-baked right now. Can someone be cultivated into that roll? Probably. But WB might not have the patience for that.
This is like when parents argue. Y’all needed to learn how to wrap it up quicker. I remember John saying what Rob said before that there’s not another Kevin Fiege prior to him taking the helm
