Hey guys, I've been wanting to make this video for a long time I think it's long over due we give the Russian planes some love. The manouverability of these things is truly outstanding, and I don't really even have enough practice to push this aircraft to its limits I hope to get better and better at this down the road and make more videos with the flanker. I think it's pretty safe to say it's one of the greatest dogfighters of all time.
@@lw8249 Depends how it's done, a quick drift before mid-corner to get the nose clear of the apex = Gets you through the corner faster, since you're now accelerating out of the corner earlier. A corner is nothing but a chicane that has to be tackled asap so you can get back on the throttle. Basic stuff back when people understood and knew how to use the cars and tires (rather than just managing engine temps and tire wear), 10 miles long cars weighing several tons go through corners with neutral handling and everyone goes "wow so fast"... it's not. Ever since the Paris air show everyone thinks the Russians plan on Cobra'ing at BVR and flip-flop the thing all over the place like some Fokker DR.1, I wonder who gave everyone that idea.
@@ToreDL87 You lose speed anyway, a little, but anyway. Only, in that case, you have an advantage because you have the nose towards the exit of the corner and you can open first full throttle. Then one thing is a slight powersliding another thing the real drift maneuver.
This video really displays how different Russian WVR doctrine to Western WVR theory. Having watched this, I now have a better appreciation of Russian fighters. It's magnificent, really.
To be fair, in an extreme pinch with no other choice, american 4th gen jets are very capable of pulling extreme AoA and achieve a cobra-like maneuver which essentially achieves the same result as having a bandit overshoot. That's why they have AoA limit overriding mechanisms and disengagable FCS in case this ever happened include manual pitch override switches to allow pitch control at greater than 50° AoA. Its just that they were never really used outside of testing and prototype phases. The F-14 prototypes performed cobras (actually called super stall) before Pugachev himself even took flight.
One of the benefits of my channel is getting to know people from all over the world. My affinity for Russian food has given access to A LOT of Russian military folks. I asked about this very topic since I'm an aviation enthusiast. The biggest problem they have with super maneuverability is the human factor. Pilots just cannot sustain some of the moves you were doing without GLOC the second biggest problem is Running out of Gas, fuel pumps like a steady flow, same with engines. "Too much sloshing the petrol can be bad." Either way I love how the Russian engineers can build things so tough and versatile, that can fly on unprepared fields and be fixed with common hand tools. Good luck doing that with a F-22. Hope the next vid is SU-27 or modded SU-57 and a F-22, that will be really neat to watch. Keep up the great content and thanks for making these so entertaining to watch. Cheers!
Eh planes like the Grippen or F-35 can be operated from normal roads in rough conditions with simple tools too. Also the DB solved the issue with "fuel slouching" back in world war 2, so how they still struggle with negative G's in russian engines today is rather shocking.
Su-27 is a defensive aircraft like most other Russian fighters, they will be airborne to take down massive enemy raids coming from the air if the air defenses(which Russians are excellent at) won't be enough, that's why the supermaneuverability is important to them, they will only engage enemies when they have gone past the S400 and have come close, which very few US aircrafts can do.
Growling Sidewinder it’s funny the Americans ditch super maneuverability only to try and stick it in their 5th gen planes i would still put my money on the Russians if they could get that close to an f22
ive actually tried this, and from what I could tell, it comes down to how the F-15 choses to fly, if he tries to turn, he dies very quickly, but if he firewalls the throttle and goes to space, he will come back down on the flanker and win that way. This is just my personal experience, but its a generally very one way fight.
@@meaterschmitt8045 exactly, a good pilot plays to the strength of his aircraft. the F-15 is not a turn fighter, it was built to intercept Mig-25s. An Eagle driver knows not to get into a turning fight with a flanker, he should use his superior speed and climb rate and keep the fight at a distance
Knightfang1 Is the Eagle really that much better than the Flanker in terms of kinetic though ? iirc, the Flanker beat every climbing speed records set by the F-15. Those were customized versions for both aircrafts but it surely means something when we compare them in dogfight with weapon load and stuff ~
RazgriFPSB F-15 has a significant advantage in thrust to weight ratio over the flanker so it accelerates much faster and therefore can begin climbing faster. The flanker apparently has a higher top speed but it takes it significantly longer to reach those speeds
This is hands down the most beautiful video on RU-vid. A wonderful dogfight simulation, towards the fourth, fifth minute when you lost altitude, and your opponent, fuck how good he was with those turns.
Ine time I did the cobra correctly and chasing plane just flew by me but I managed to snap my wings lol 😂 so it got me so mad because it was so nice seeimg him overshoot lol.
Wow you were cemented in the air for a bit after that risky stall. Amazing what a Flanker can do. Truly the ballerina of the sky. But that's more like the SU-37
I came here to watch a fight but left saying that's a great dance by two love making birds as David Attenborough puts it on documentries. Great show by both Growling and other guys.
I cant play this game because of i don't have a good enough computer, but i absolutely love this game and especially watching these videos on your channel, so keep the good work up :D
Russia chose maneuverability because fancy air show maneuvers sell aircraft to politicians who make the decisions and maneuverability is a relatively inexpensive feature to incorporate in a design. USA chose energy retention because it wins in air battles and they have a history of successful energy based designs so they stick with what works. Another key deciding factor is that the radar limitations of Russian aircraft often forced a close in fight anyways at the time, if they survived long enough to get close then other measures could be taken to try to gain an edge, such as off bore sight targeting and weapons and an option to try to use passive sensors for an ambush. Extra maneuverability was seen as also adding to that edge in a close range fight.
Perhaps you could try the supermanuverability with the R-73? The high alpha and small turn radius seems to suit a high off boresight missile shot. Amazing video as always btw!
This was super technical!! That pull over the airfield was too risky and he almost shoot you in the first flight .. But then again every one's an expert when they aren't the ones flying
I can understand why US decision-makers didn't go this route. If the pilot uses supermaneuverability wisely, it's very effective 1v1, but there are a lot of ways to get it wrong and die. It sounds easier to train hundreds of pilots to use the F-15 to its full potential than to do the same with the Su-27.
In the 90's a swedish fighterpilot said to me that the Su27 had power beyond it's own neck. He said he had seen them start, with maximum payload and go almost 90 degrees right up after given air under it's wings and keep accelerate. Now they newer models have even more power.
You’ve done it again buddy awesome film like action and great tac view, love the content and great to see how you manage to keep it fresh, the way you guys control the action...well done thnx
I think you perfectly demonstrated why us don't use this sistem because if it's there pilots will use it and it may not pay out as well,I find you quite experienced in dogfighting but in the second fight you got a little to comfortable with that cobra and it's such a crazy thing to do it ends up being something you immediately think of in a high stress environment and as a result to that you get shot down, love the SU and these dogfights are so graceful very enjoyable vid man thanks
7:29 what the heck? well he certainly flew right by, even though energy dogfighting may or may not be more effective, this supermaneuverable ace combatish dogfights look awesome , i wonder how it would work against western fighters
History has shown that the victors were more often energy fighters than maneuvering fighters. For instance, the P-51 and P-47 were able to maintain air superiority against far more maneuverable (and far slower) aircraft such as the Ki-43 and A6M5. In WWI, the Fokker Dr. I was the best dogfighter of the war, but was quickly dethroned since it had to be put in a defensive position to utilize its strengths. Energy fighting allows a fighter to stay in the offensive position, and dictate the circumstances of the fight. For that reason, in my opinion, energy fighting will always be superior. Now, if you can do both like an F-22 can, all the better!
You'll be pleased to hear that I got my new PC late last week - had DCS World on Friday and the SU-27 on Saturday am. By third take off was trying the supermaneuverability! F@#k! Amazing! Lot to learn though... Thanks for the inspiration to get DCS World and the Flanker....... Best, Pete.
*Imagine being at the park and seeing a sukoi @**8:36** I would shit my pants but it would also be the best day of my life! And that kill he got on you was just beautiful*
I believe TAC view was showing 77ft ASL. If someone had been standing just below that plane at high AOA, they'd have been blown away / burned very badly.
I don't know if this was Dancing With The Stars or Matrix, but was really good and pimp IMO; i think the SU-27s/33 was the russian early atempt to get a fighter plane with high maneuverability without get involved on the trust vectoring. And i think they've a really good line of fighters there.
Wait..I just got a notification for this like 1 minute ago. I wish it actually showed me the video when it was first uploaded. But regardless, I'm pretty sure I'm gonna enjoy the video.
I just released it boss, It was originally released for early access to patrons I appreciate you having notifications on tho. at least we know theyre working for once.
I was confused, too, because the date says today but there are older comments. Anyway, great video! Recently got into DCS and your videos most certainly help with the learning curve. I would love to see the Su-33 go head to head against the Su-27 to weigh pros and cons of the heavier -33 with larger wing surfaces against the lighter and more nimble -27. Part of me thinks that while the -27 will corner better the -33 might handle the stall manuevers better having better lift with the larger wing surfaces. Appreciate the videos, GS. Thanks!
@@apersonontheinternet8006 The 33 would be marginally better in the inital 90 degrees after the merge, after that the 27 would be able to pull more AOA and bleed less speed. Advantage 100% lies with the 27 imo.
Personally, I believe both high energy and super maneuverability have their advantages and disadvantages. It is strictly up to the pilot to choose the type of engagement they are better trained in. This is where I believe the Russian fighters have the advantage. It doesn't matter the style of fight, they can handle both where as the American Fighters rely heavily on bvr and high energy fights. The F-22 is an exception which leads me to believe the Americans are finally starting to understand the benefit of super maneuverability.
Amazing job, not only you do great videos and your voice is just so calm and easy to listen to, but you obviously are great pilot with a lots of skills, knowledge and experience... I admire you, my hats off! Subscribed!
