Deacons, Deaconesses, and Women's Ordination 

"Likewise in the case of their deaconesses, and generally in the case of those who have been enrolled among their clergy, let the same form be observed. And we mean by deaconesses such as have assumed the habit, but who, since they have no imposition of hands, are to be numbered only among the laity." Canon 19 First Council of Nicæa (A.D. 325)

From a non-Christian, this is not the endorsement of Fr. Casey's revisionist history you think it is. Quite the opposite. John 15:18 NASB95 "If the world hates you, you know that it has hated Me before it hated you."

@@xunqianbaidu6917 the question is why not?

Maybe it's because after centuries of sexual abuse of nuns by priests, or sexual abuse of women and girls, we feel it would be nice to have women to possibly be a safe-guard, not to mention be someone talk to about these sensitive subjects that sometimes a woman or girl ONLY is comfortable in sharing with another woman. This reluctance by men to allow it, and the forcefulness in the male insistence that a woman should be happy talking to a male priest or her husband (if she has one) feels like a way of making sure men are forced into every aspect, no matter how private, of a woman's life. It reminds me of the transgender ideology movement's refusal to acknowledge women as a separate kind of human being with unique needs that men don't have, insisting we should have NO reason to feel uncomfortable undressing in front of a man, no reason to want to receive medical care from a woman, or speak to a female therapist, with no exemptions even for women who are deeply traumatized by men. If any of the Churches, be it Catholic or Orthodox or Southern Baptist, etc., have any compassion for women as human beings, and can recognize that men have no right to our changing rooms at the pool, then they should have no problem recognizing that women might need someone to speak to in a church, someone ordained and well-educated, who isn't a male. It's not personal, but sadly in our fallen world where men regularly attack women and children, this is needed. Sadly, another symptom of the fallen world is men's mistaken belief that they are smarter, more spiritually sound, and holier than their female counterparts, despite that fact that they were made by women. This is not a belief God shares. Men would be wise to, well, wisen up, and stop pretending they are in any way superior to the human blueprint for life: the female. Cause you're not, you're just physically stronger, and mroe prone to using violence to assert your will. Which is EVIL behaviour.

He’s Franciscan!! 🙂

@@clementine5053 the most jesuit like priest without being jesuit, yes

Timothy 2:12 in the bible specifically speaks against having women teach. Some interpret it as only teaching theology (roles in a church) some belive it to speak for secular teaching in the modern day.

Women aren't to teach. Full stop. Being silent in Church obviously means teaching, not singing hymns and prayers. Context is important

Well, that would eliminate most teachers. Would be fun for all women teachers to quit in protest of the sexism and cite this verse as the reason. Bet men would change their minds real quick. @@tomsimson2817

Paul was a Jew

@@richardsasso8043 Yes I know. I am referring to the Council of Jerusalem detailed in Chapter 15 of the Acts of the Apostles.

@Brian Farley Matthias replacing Judas is in Chapter 1 of Acts. Read Chapter 15, it is where the Apostles decided gentile Christians did not need to become Jews to follow Jesus.

@Brian Farley No, I’m pointing out the defence of the Church that Jesus only chose male Apostles so we in 2021 can not have female priests & bishops doesn’t really stack up, given that the Church has seen fit to appoint priests & bishops who do not fit any of the other commonalities of the original 12.

@Brian Farley There were plenty of non Jewish men in the area (Greeks, Samaritans, Romans etc.) He could have chosen. Can you tell me where He insisted his Apostles ONLY be men? What aspects of the ministry of a priest or bishop make male biology absolutely necessary?

"Likewise in the case of their deaconesses, and generally in the case of those who have been enrolled among their clergy, let the same form be observed. And we mean by deaconesses such as have assumed the habit, but who, since they have no imposition of hands, are to be numbered only among the laity." Canon 19 First Council of Nicæa (A.D. 325)

Believe me, go to a TLM. This type if insane thinking doesn't exist there.

@@monicamohan4720 Thanks. Doing RCIA for the second time. Been going to N.O. for nearly 2 years. Found the TLM about 3 months ago. You are right.

@@knightsrepose9448 Thank you for letting me know!

Go to the SSPX.

I wonder if he's doing this because of cultural pressure rather than biblical adherence.

Weddings, baptisms, certain blessings, the Kyrie, the gospel, the sign of peace, the dismissal.

where does it say that in Scripture? A servant is one thing an ordained deacon is another. The word diakanos is mostly used in scripture as servant. This is where I think the confusion is.

There isn't really an issue with woman as Deacons, the issue is around "ordaining" women as Deacons.

Sorry Deb...share your faith in any hundred of other ways but women can not be ordained! You can not have a women in persona christi at the altar of the bride of christ...its religious lesbianism and will further lead people away.

@@donaldc3884 Father Casey literally said in the video that deacons do NOT stand Persona Christi. So yes, they can become deacons.

@davemiller6055 ​Ok, you all are not getting how massive changes are accomplished. First its girl altar servers... then its women deacons.... then its women priests... and it will happen very quickly depending on location. One place will start it, say germany, and it will spread

@@donaldc3884 I think fear is unfounded and don't get discouraged. Alter girls have been fine, we always had both for many years. Things NEVER happen quickly in the Catholic church, lol. You don't need to worry about that. : ) I think with so many issues in the church, God wouldn't be upset with women deacons but it doesn't matter to me either way. They wont be priests at least in our lifetime.

Yes, we can vote, we can't be legally raped or beaten by husbands anymore (at least, not in Western countries, progress elsewhere is still needed), we can't be forced to marry a rapist, we can drive. The fruits of male supremacy: everything I just mentioned for millennia/centuries and still exists in many places, plus now men are trying to take away women's sports, public bathrooms and changing rooms are now all for men, men have infiltrated and monetized fake, liberalized "feminism" (in name only) and used it to shill pornography and transgenderism and pharmaceuticals to children , while the real feminists fighting these awful sex-crazed ideologies like Sall Grover or Amy Hamm are kept in court battles, at their own expense, for years and years and years. I think I'll choose the fruits of feminism every time. I abhor male degeneracy, and the male need to subject every woman and child to it. I applaud those men like Graham Linehan who oppose it and choose to fight along side women, at great personal cost. I hope you wake up and become one of those men.

Matthew 18:14-15

He had a Mother in law, healed by Jesus so...

Agree. I do believe this to be a justice issue - in the old sense of justice. Those who wrap female ordination with blessing homosexual unions and other modern claptrap seek only to destroy, not heal.

I agree totally. I think a decision like this can be made independently of worldly thinking. If anything, everything being divided by the sexes or having female versions of something is going AGAINST the grain, because the fashion right now is to pretend sex doesn't exist and men and women are the same, therefore women have neither need nor right to anything just for them. So actually, it would be anti-postmodern!

I think the issue is people go by how they feel and unfortunately that is influenced by our culture today. I'm sure you you've read 1 Tim 3 that is at the heart of all the disputes. I have yet to see a reputable translation say women instead of wives. And why would they go back to men in verse 11 to say the husband of one wife. Wouldn't it make sense for them to say the wife of one husband as well. Lastly in acts 6 they chose seven men, not seven persons to do the work. That is the evidence we have, when people have an issue with what scripture says, their go to is that it was mistranslated. That is exactly why there are gay bibles and so many others because people are looking through the lens of this culture.

It's not straight forward, there were women who helped with women's baptism and they were called deaconess and the wives of male deacons were also known as deaconess. There isn't proof that they were ordained.

@@jaqian that isn’t a good argument. It’s only complicated because one gender has to share. Usually when one party is bringing up an injustice the other party that benefits from that injustice doesn’t want to give it up and will come up with many reasons why it shouldn’t be changed. There are plenty of biblical points to back up having women ordained.

@Brian Farley so I am to understand you are saying that only men can make true leadership? I disagree with complimentary ideology. I also disagree with subjugation of women in the church.

I am in Catholic classes and I am on my way to becoming Catholic. I am not the only Catholic that has this position. I pray in the future men will come to realize that we need both each other’s input. The birth analogy is just plain wrong I would stop using that. I am a mother and it’s absolutely not the same thing as a priest

@Brian Farley I disagree but thanks I will talk to the deacon giving the classes though.

irrelvant

I agree and I hope younger people bring about that change, and for the good, without getting swept up by postmodernism, which should have nothing to do with abolishing male supremacy.

I think that we need not only to read but to study the word of God. Many people leave the faith because of what it says. If you believe the Bible is the word of God then study it. Too many of us look the eyes of today's culture and criticize what we like and what we don't like. Pray and ask God for revelation of His word.

Completely agree

I left the Catholic church thinking that way. But I returned thinking completely opposite. And, my opposition to women deacons or priests grows stronger with each passing day.

The issue is that we look at the issue with secular eyes. Look at what the Bible says. Let's not twist it to what we want it to say.

@@jperkins1269 i am catholic, i don't read the bible as a fundamentalist. We got Paul opinión about women role. We know the disciples disagree about many things. We also know that women did act as deacons in the early church. We have to use our god given brains and hearts and make decisions. And truly, there is no solid logical or theological reason to limit women participation.

@@uxigadur so basically what your saying is that someone else tells you what God says and that God wants you to decide what is right? I would disagree about the theological reasons.

Also Phoebe is specifically called a Deacon by Paul and she was female

What is it about bread that allows it to become the body of our Lord? Why cant we use another food like bagels or pretzels? What is the ontological distiction that makes bread and wine the only chanels for grace in the eucharist? Do you think that if there is no ontological distinction that we should be able to temper with the eucharist in whatever way we seem fit? For, as you said, if it is not ontological than it can only be cultural, and so might be done away with to better ajust to todays culture, right? No. We dont "play around" with the sacraments. We do as we have recieved from those who came before since time immemorial. No one can change the eucharist from bread to bagel, because that is how Our Lord commanded the apostles to do, and no one has autority to change that for any reason. I also remind you that there existis not only ontological and cultural differences but also symbolical. For the correct understanding of what a symbol is I recommend reading "crisis of religious symbolism" by Jean Borella. Needless to say men and women symbolize different things.

It says Junia is KNOWN among the Apostles.

@@jamesajiduah2001 which has been interpreted by many people in many different ways. Good thing we dont believe on that scripture alone BS

Then stay an Episcopalian. Why must the church conform to your world view when there are plenty of options for those who seek it like you did. I was raised Catholic. Left to find a better way. Finally, I ended up at a Lutheran church. When the male pastor retired, they hired a female pastor. It never felt right, so I left and came home to the Catholic church. During that time, I also read the Bible cover to cover. It became clear that the only way I could be in covenant with God was to return to the Catholic Church founded by Jesus Christ.

This has nothing to do with the discussion. The deacon is ordained to ministry of the word, the liturgy, and charity and Pope Benedict !6 made the distinction between the priesthood and diaconate abundantly clear with his Motu Proprio Omnium in Mentem.

@@pzagano I did not specify it clearly in the comment, but I was referring to the priest ordination. I don't believe that can be validly changed.

I am becoming Catholic and I agree and many Catholics feel the same. When looking at women’s roles in early church history you can find so much proof that women had higher roles beside their brothers expanding the kingdom of our Lord.

Men and women are not the same. They have different roles in society, in nature, also in the Church. They are complementary. Christ was a man. It's not discriminatory to state that only men can be men.

No one said anyone other than men could be men. It would be illogical for you to make the leap that since only men can be men, therefore only men can act in the body of Christ. Makes no sense, and seems an obvious form of fallen-world hatred of women. Sad that so many Christians embrace this as the gospel truth, including probably people in the gospels. @@luizfelipe5399

In any case we must be vigilant, people claiming to return to an older more authentic form of Christianity is usually one of the first red flags for a heresy.

@@allthenewsordeath5772 That's kinda my point, early christians would be considered heretic by modern standards, because religions change over time

@@falnica I don’t quite think that, heresy is one of those things that isn’t really backwards compatible, you couldn’t have been a heretic before the thing you believe was declared a heresy, but if you persist in believing it after that, only then are you a heretic. I meant in the aggregate more of a tendency for people to throw out sound doctrine and dogmas of the church ostensibly to return to a more authentic Christianity.

@@allthenewsordeath5772 That's the thing, there isn't "sound doctrine and dogmas". There were factions with different beliefs fighting for power in the early church and when one of those factions finally won they declared the other factions heretical Christians suppose the "right" faction won, but the way I see it there wasn't a "right" faction. If the arrians had won it would be heressy today that Jesus had a physical body and you would be defending that position all the same

@@falnica But the Ariens didn’t win, nor the gnostics, nor the Pallagians, and that’s the point, when push came to shove these break away and heretical groups could not persuade the other faithful or Bishops to follow their teachings. And if we let every man who calls himself a Christian, define the word Christian, then Christian quickly becomes a meaningless word.

that passage is contested--and Paul introduced Phoebe the deacon to the Church at Rome.

@@pzagano She was not an ordained pastor. So don’t start that stuff. In the Lutheran Church A Deaconess is somebody who does similar things like nuns do but they are not ordained.

But they were ordained back then.@@edwardluth7740

So you wanna be a priest?

@@mohaubereng9315, ask Casey whether that's a good idea. Even if he never responds, I imagine he still reads his comments. But no, I do not want to be a priest. I want women to have the RIGHT to be priests. I'm sick of playing fourth fiddle to men in organised religion, but it's not because of that that I became a Pantheist. Or not JUST because of that.

@@ActiveAdvocate1 I don’t think there’s any harm in acknowledging that men and women have different roles to fulfill in the church, or in society at large for that matter. And I think your first comment points out exactly why the church shouldn’t change on this subject, if it did, or if the church changed its mind on a number of other issues, it would no longer be the church, and I doubt that abandoning various positions would bring anyone closer to God in the long term, as GK Chesterton once wrote “we do not want a church that moves with the world, we want a church that moves the world.” On a sidenote I do find it pretty funny that most of the people pushing for women priests, are either not Catholic, or about as far from Orthodox as you can get without openly being a heretic. It’s almost like you lot care more about your various political agendas, then you do about Christ and his church.

@@allthenewsordeath5772, you know, weird tangent, but GK Chesterton was friends with a man I took as my guru when I first became a Pantheist. Do you know the name Alan Watts? Go look him up. He was friends with Chesterton despite not, and I repeat, NOT being a Christian. As to "heretic", I will wear that badge proudly, even if you mean something intrinsically negative by it. I refuse to support a church that will openly, legally torture children. Finding out about the Indigenous residential "schools" is what put the last touch on my de-conversion, though it had begun much, much earlier than when I found out about that. I think I officially STARTED to de-convert when I was 21 or 22, and made a vow of total nonviolence between just me and the world Itself. I haven't knowingly so much as killed a bug since then, and I'm 31 years old now. As to not knowing anything about the subject, I was born into Catholicism, and I have two degrees in philosophy and Religious Studies hanging on my wall. So...to answer that point of view, I IDO know about it, but you're right in saying that I care more about the politics than about Jesus. Because JESSU cared more about the politics than he cared about himself. Or haven't you noticed that he would defend others, at least with words, but not himself? Not a very "me focused" kind of guy. Ironically, I like Jesus too much to be a Christian. Follow the Message, don't worship the messenger.

@@ActiveAdvocate1 GK Chesterton was friends with a lot of people, he was mortal Frenemies with Bernard Shaw to as I recall. As far as indigenous schools go, it’s pretty disingenuous to blame those on the church, when it was the official policy of the Canadian government, and those schools regularly requested more funding and medical aid but did not receive it. I’m not saying the church is completely blameless in that matter, but the media has certainly blown it out of proportion, particularly when it comes to describing mass graves, which could more accurately be described as graveyards. Also Jesus wasn’t political, that was one of his points “give on to Caesar what is Caesars, and give to God what is God’s.” That is some thing I found rather difficult to stomach myself, that the truth of Christ and his church do not call any particular political persuasion home, as much as conservatives would like it to do so, care for the poor and care for the unborn, are not mutually exclusive. But I digress, Christ and the church he instituted are inseparable, you cannot turn your back on one without turning your back on the other. Mind you I will not deny your right to do so, and pantheism is better than many other things, but we should refrain from telling each other how to walk the other persons path. Also there is a pretty major difference between calling out crimes and abuse in the church out of a desire to help and bring justice for the victims, and wishing to see the church preserved and grow, and just using them as clubs to beat the faithful over the head with, and while I cannot speak to your motives and it would be both improper and rude of me to do so, I can say that by and large the media in the English-speaking world has leaned more into the latter than the former. Lastly, with Christianity and Catholicism in particular, the message and the messenger are quite inseparable, that is the whole point of our great liturgy, at every mass we present Christ’s sacrifice. You cannot only have the word, because the Word was made flesh.