Had a game the other day where we lost a pretty even and hard-fought game because our Talon, the weakest member of our team, solo-ran the urn and handed it to the enemy Warden who was waiting for. Afterwards when I commented on how he shouldn’t have solo run the urn he said he “ran past all of us and thought one of us would follow him” Apparently not noticing the 4v4 teamfight he was running past or bothering to look at his minimap and see that in fact none of us followed him.
@@sensitiveintrovert6193 I mean I wasn’t obnoxious or rude about it, more trying to be constructive. Which I think is fair when someone kinda outright throws a game for your whole team.
@@jonathanrussell6525 arent you kinda the same as him when you didnt communicate anything to him or tell him not to go for the urn and then got mad at him for doing something you didnt tell him not to do and isnt it a bit sad to justify getting mad at a stranger about something they cant change by saying its 'constructive' and pretending you dont think it came across as rude and probably made them feel bad and isnt it sad to delude yourself into thinking theres nothing you could have done better to win a game and that its all someone elses fault because they OUTRIGHT THREW etc. and isnt it really sad to go to the comment section of a youtube video to externalise this caricature of a player and fantasy version of a match in a computer game you played to try and protect your ego and shift the blame of your own losses away to other people ?
The lack of game audio honestly makes it easier for me to focus on what you're saying about the game breakdown. In the future, you can try doing quiet game audio, maybe raising it at key points. I generally think the audio muted makes it easier to understand the situation compared to 100% vol game audio.
you absolutely can get team to group up on urn in solo queue! i either say i’ll push the delivery lane so someone across map can have an open delivering lane to run to, or i’ll run urn myself and ask for the lane to be pushed and defended. communication can be hard tho.
Honestly I find at whatever MMR I'm at people focus too much on side objectives like urn. So often I see people just giving up entire lanes to run urn and donating a walker to the team for free.
@@pokecole37 Yeah, it’s really a juggle of trying to commit enough to secure the objective but not so much that you lose something else. Or if you’re behind and don’t think you can secure the objective maybe committing just enough to force the enemy team to respond while the rest of your team tries to take something they left abandoned.
Urn system is quite bad at the moment. It causes the winning team to snowball too hard. Souls + 5 AP for completing Urns is completely bonkers. They should consider: 1. Limit the number of times the Urn spawns - ie Dragon system in league 2. Give diminishing returns instead of scaling up +/ bounty system for completing urns - it just snowballs too hard, you lose 2-3 urns and the game becomes a tower defense for the losing team 3. Give it a cooldown so the same player can't pick it up consecutively - the player disadvantage is nullified if the player holding the urn just drops it and joins the fight thoughts anyone?
@@ci-chol they will run an algorithm every tuesday that compares all players, and then ranks them. can click on "What's Ranked?" in game under the ranked tab to see more info, or look at the patch notes for the last major update
I've found in my mid-tier games the Urn to be a big difference maker. But I don't know if collecting the Urn is a demonstration of dominance for the winning team, or the cause of the winning team. The soul difference feels like it's been Urn diff in my games for the last week (mine or enemy team)... Looking at souls by source, and the winning team always had Urn souls, losing team NEVER gets Urn. I've also been called Autistic for trying to run the Urn. I've had people say it's not worth dying for (fair, I will drop it and join a fight if needed). I've had a player confused about why I was holding Urn on our side of the map as everyone postured at the delivery point, while I farm neutrals or drop to push wave. But I've also had teams that fully understood how valuable it was, and would escort AND split push on the opposite side of the map.
Someone needs to do a cheat sheet of priorities in that game : if no one in lane, push lane. If someone in lane : shove lane and rotate for camps and prevent enemy lane pushing. It hurts my brain seeing people forcing a guardian/walker fight when the only lane pushed is the one they sit in, if they lose the push, they gain nothing
I watch my brother play heaps, and he loves to deliver the urn quick with viscous ult! I might suggest he split push with his ult for a get away, see what he thinks!
Currently we have been setting up mega waves then heading to the other side of the map with urn Making them choose between minions taking towers and team fights
"You can force favourable fights over objectives when you have 50% more souls than the enemy" is kind of an obvious thing to point out. What if you're the team that's behind? Leveraging advantages is all well and good, but I want to win the hard games too, not just the easy ones.
Honestly I lose so many games where my team is ahead for the first 20 minutes because nobody wants to push our advantage and actually make something happen. They just want to clear jungle on our side forever until we lose at 60+ minutes. So it's not irrelevant to teach people what do actually do with a lead to convert it into a win. But also, for the losing side you just do the inverse of this. If you're getting crushed in lane, just give them the guardian and freeze the wave near your walker. If the lead team is running urn have 1 or 2 people show in the drop-off lane and have the rest push inner and outer lanes on the other side. Force the winning team to match your coordination or lose their lead. I know it's basically impossible to coordinate pub games, but if both teams are even on all skills then the one with more souls *should* be winning. If you want to come back from a deficit you need to do something better than the leading team and one of the weakest points for pub games in general is macro and coordination, so that's the easiest level to outplay them on.
whats the odds you afk jungle safe side when your team has an advantage? coz everyone will say wow it's so obvious but then I play 2k valve rating matches and the team is literally bots on passive trying to out farm the enemies.
Great video do you think you'll ever do a video on how to lane on duo lanes? most videos ive seen are on solo lanes or are they fundamentally the same strategies?
Usually try to get my friends to pick up the bridge buffs but it is hard to get them to pay as much attention to the urn as they do walkers, or just pushing waves in general. Even when pushing isn’t as likely to work out in our favor
If you’re losing, you can try to counter push the opposite side or any open lanes. If you have people on your team contesting the urn, usually that’ll give you space to try and grab a walker which gives you a shot at clawing back. If you still have space, then neutral camps on their side of the map will keep them from staying ahead
Pros drop the urn on the goal then pick it up again to deliver suggest that the urn value does not update when being picked up. So the drop the urn to update the urn's value and complete the delivery.
I feel the urn is in bad need of a redesign. Right now, it's an objective that just rewards and snowballs the winning team. The other objectives like walkers and midboss require you to push up or otherwise put yourself into a vulnerable position. There is no risk with urn. It boosts your speed to run to the other side at the map median line. Absolute worst case, the enemy starts a fight where each side has equal chance to bring more bodies, the urn carrier can instantly drop it to join, and the team that's ahead will usually win and deliver the urn to snowball further. I feel like it shouldn't be so instant and easy to drop the urn, or the carrier gets a debuff that doesn't end until it's delivered or stolen with heavy melee.
Has anyone mapped which is faster? You're in lane two and you want to go to lane four. Is it better to go between two and three and then between three and four, or is it better to go between two and one and then teleport to four?
Can't multiple people grab the buff if they stand on it while it spawns? I heard that very early when I started playing but have yet to see it in application. They were kinda waiting for it and chose 1 person to get it, but I thought you could stack and grab it at the same time.
So step 1: Win all the lanes so that you can be incredibly offensive inside their jungle and safely run the urn behind it without them being able to contest because they are so much weaker at this point.
I don't believe there accurate but the stat tracking site's seem to put me in top 10% and urn is almost never ran in my games lol. it feels like everyone will drop everything to deathball for the urn so both teams just don't bother running it lol
You have to consider how many people are really really bad or just don't really play much at all. Top 10% is still like 20000+ people, which is a lot considering its closed access.
@@dylancrosby2451 absolutley, I only mention my "ranking" as a means of clarifying how I experience the game in my elo. I just find it interesting that to start with running the urn was almost free and we'd run it constantly & now its such a blood bath no one bothers (I emagine the top 5%+ go back to running urn all the time lol)
I find it hilarious how valve genuinely thought that an objective that requires total map control would be a comebac mechanic. Urn is possibly the most snowbally mechanic ive seen in a moba. Surely they have some dota 2 designers on the team, right? It seems way too silly to believe that urn wouldnt be abused by the winning team.
For real? It makes far more sense for it to be of the same category as the mid boss, a way to close the game when you're ahead but in a bit of a stalemate. Sometimes the losing team might be able to ambush to steal, but that's a high risk high reward kinda deal.
its not hilarious to me. Im always on top of the urn and i communicate with my team and it helps us come back. You can also just take the urn back to your spawn so they cant have it or you can stall with it. have someone push lane while you hold urn and the other team will just wait for you to turn the urn in but ur stalling
I mean, I’ve definitely been able to run them as the losing team before, the speed boost helps. If the enemy team so much has a few people out of position (including being pushed up TOO far) they’re out of the fight because you’ll be at the drop point too fast. But I’m not exactly in pro queues.
@@jonathanrussell6525 you are able to run them as the losing team. but assuming both teams are playing ti their best ability, it will generate much more value for the winning team due to the nature of map control. They will just be able to cap it much more frequently and generate more value despite urn giving more to the losing team in the most recent patch. So I really don't see how it could be categorized as a comeback mechanic. it's clearly a snowballing mechanic. It just really strikes me as bizarre that this was intended to be a comeback mechanic . it's like they thought that the winning team would just constantly be trying to force push and ignoring the pot of gold.
@@ayylmao752 I honestly dont view it as a comeback mechanic bc I utilize it more when im not winning tbh lmfaooo winning teams often forget about urn bc they think they dont need it.
i mean, i can respect a hustle but saying 'Deadlock Pros' when its a game that is in alpha xD is abit of a joke no? theres clickbait. and theres theres this level of stupid.
I need to learn when to throw my team away. The other night I had the urn and I was heading towards the location and I saw an enemy in a building and tried to ping them but I only pinged the location. There were only three allies there so I was hanging back, no intention of going in until the other allies showed up or we had some visuals. Of course my allies charge forward and they get ambushed because the enemy team was waiting in buildings to ambush. And my mistake is I dropped the urn and trying to help them but since they were ambushed they were killed really quickly and that left me running away alone and I just couldn't get away. Next time I'm going to just fall back with the urn and let them die, and then go clear some camps or something. I've had some games where I run around with the urn just clearing camps and waves because it isn't safe to turn.
Meanwhile in pub : Wraith and seven afk farming , abram feeding and blaming everyone, infernus and vindicta are spamming russian in texte or mkc , and dynamo try is best and dont say anything .
I normally love your content but this video was a dud. What you showed was just a winning team doing winning team things and nothing particularly clever. Forcing urn fights is a reasonable strategy but what was shown here is not that
@@kamikeserpentail3778 which is why it feels like a snowball mechanic... teams who are behind have very limited opportunities to catch up, it requires a certain defensive mentality and many casual players won't have the patience to grind it out like that.
