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That graphic really helped to visualize what went on. I am not a pilot and nor do i work in airline related job. I understand some parts but would never have been able to understand it at the level you make it clear.
It is astounding to learn how much the human mind will dismiss when it has a certain objective that it has focused upon. So many clues that a go around was needed, but tragically all ignored. Really great analysis of this terrible situation.
There were many chances that they would have avoided it. Your explanation is very easy to understand to even a non-aviation related person like me also!
Most of us do a mental check when intercepting and ILS glideslope under difficult circumstances.. Atthe majority of airfields there's a simple check on a/c height over the outer marker but not always.. A quick bit of mental arithmetic based on distance to the runway and glideslope angle will give the pilot a correct approximate height that will avoid the problem of possible interception of a false glide. Typically, this is not an issue as we almost always intercept the glideslope from below, but not always. When I first began flying into Kabul circa 2005, the ATC was being handled by some young US military guys (I think).. it was not uncommon, often at night in very poor weather, for them to issue us a heading while well below the height of the very steep mountains close to the airport, at night, in cloud.. then forget all about us! Eventually we would call them up as our instruments would show us getting dangerously near the rock faces, we would then be issued a hurried, instruction onto a new heading resulting in us intercepting the glideslope from above.. very tricky, resulting in a rapid descent through the false glide, multiple mental calculations while configuring the aircraft and stabilising before getting too close to the runway.. The option of breaking off the descent was always there but with very poor weather and multiple aircraft attempting the approach, ATC were under a lot of pressure.. trying to climb out in a very restricted area of aircraft and mountains at night, was just as risky as continuing.
Another outstanding video, thank you! I remember when this accident took place and reading about it and was baffled how two professional pilots in command of a "heavy" 747-400 could get this far behind the jet. You would think when they saw the airport symbol disappear from view in their PFD (Primary Flight Display) as they overflew not only the approach end but the ENTIRE length of the runway it would cause the survival instinct to kick in. But no, they overflew the runway and crashed in the departure end. At no point was this jet EVER stable and established on any recognizable form of a low-visibility (less that Category 1) approach............... and yet they continued.
Thanks so much for these incredible accident review videos. I fly for a regional airline in Australia and share your channel to all of my first officers and other captains. Keep it up! 🙌🏻
WOW this happened in 2017 ! Why have I never heard about 39 deaths ?! Rest in peace eternally for all the souls involved I cannot imagine chilling in your house drinking tea or coffee in the morning and then having a whole ass 747 crash into your neighborhood ot even worse onto your house. The pilots may have been at fault but nobody(maybe the worst people of the worst) deserves feeling that insane amount of pure terror when u suddenly touch down in a field and impact trees.... Crashing in foggy weather in the dead of night into an ocean inverted is my personal terror.
I'm learning more about ILS than I ever expected. If I'm on a flight where the crew needs help with an ILS I'll be happy to assist. :D it sounds like they had summit fever and were committed to a landing. It requires some willpower to break out of this mindset and start over.
Knowing nothing about physical attributes of various plane models yet suffering from insatiable curiosity and desire to drill down to the actual “primary source”, for lack of a better term, I just flip back and forth between the video paused here and google images of said plane an inordinate number of times to visualize the how the inverted tail would look… it’s a blessing and a curse.🤓😫 I need a job…😕
I love your channel. Your video style is thoughtful, thorough, insightful, and respectful. Keep it up! You deserve way more subscribers. One minor point (very minor!); you were discussing the role of a pilot/FO in a generic, example situation, and used a male pronoun. Of course, pilots/FOs are not always "he", so just a suggestion to use a generic pronoun ("they") to denote that pilots/FOs can be any gender. As I said, this is a very minor linguistic point, but I thought it was worth mentioning. :) Thank you again for your fantastic content.
Do not like the use of plural as a neutral pronoun... seems to me like a desecration of the language/grammar... if feel the need for such a pronoun, that's fair, but generate a new word, thereby enriching the language with a new concept. or otherwise, look back to Old-English with it's indefinite-tense pronoun "heit" as in "heit be Ladde au Lass, Kindre au feyen"... personally, thinking now, I actually quite fancy "heit" to be reintroduced back into the language...
PS: other sources seem to indicate the pronoun Per, Pers, Perself seemed to have been used... this is actually the recommended pronoun for use today according to LGBTQIA+wiki
Everyone is talking about the pilots ignoring clues (which admitedly caused the accident) but the fog made the disorientation possible in the first place too... and the treacherous 9° glide slope doomed them. a lot of factors came together to cause this... Great video as always mate!
I disagree heavily. Those are fully trained airline polits were talkting about here, not some lsa pilots. Fog does not change even the smallest thing for the crew, apart from the autoland. Situational awareness is NEVER obtained by looking outside of the window, but on the instruments, so wether the visibility is high or low does not matter. Sure, that arrival looks to be quite sporty, with a distance of 27NM between the mentioned waypoints- but that is something I expect an airline pilot to be able to work with. Looking at the arrival and approach chart, it is very easy to see that you should use speedbrakes and slow down early, so that the aircraft is at 6000ft at "TOPKA", not above and at a speed of say 200 knots. Walk in the park.
*+Gregg Strasser,* whom/ what to dogpile then? . . By the way, on the internet... E V E R Yone is an "expert". . Even the lizard on my ceiling.. staring down and watching this video... is an (aviation) expert.
If you make your thumbnail for videos with a thin red boarder it looks like I was reommended one of your videos and I had already watched it all the way through.
@@AirspaceVideos it's just a silly observation but when I see your video in my recommended it has a red outline around it and looks like when yt recommends a video you have already watched all the way through on the yt app. Lol
RIP to those people who had 400 tons of aircraft plough through their bedrooms because of two negligent clowns. How can two pilots, in thick fog continue with auto land when their auto pilot is throwing alarms at them? I wonder what Mentor Pilot would say about this one...
The animosity is amazing here. The pilots were among the dead. That was by choice (they broke the rules in place and crashed their 74), but not by intention. That means you can blame them, but you can't treat them as serial killers. Two completely different things. Dismissing their deaths, and referring to them as "clowns" is in no way an acceptable behaviour. Because they didn't want to die that day, neither did they want to take 30 people with them by ploughing through buildings. They too were most likely looking forward to meeting their loved ones after an exhausting flight. RIP to EVERYONE who perished on this accident mainly due to the negligence of the crew. They not only brought the end to themselves, but to 30+ lives as well. A tragic incident that could've been avoided had the crew done proper CRM and followed the rules.
@@anavgeekspassion5727 The only "unacceptable behaviour" here is by the pilots ignoring a succession of warnings in thick fog, expressing my outrage verbally is not.
@@andy-james- Of course it is. You can express your outrage whilst remaining respectful. This is not outrage. You've said something disgusting. I would argue it was as disgusting as the actions of the pilots that day. Hiding behind the protective chamber of social media, and expressing your feelings in a disturbing manner is not wise by any means and is not something that should be done. I urge you to re-think everything you just said.
@@anavgeekspassion5727 Who the fuck do you think you are? You see yourself as some self appointed keyboard adjudicator who must reprimand anyone who does not use a vocabulary to your liking? Take a day off and have a word with yourself. Seriously, you come across as a sanctimonious Karen. This convo has now ended.
Manas is a crazy field. atc barely speaks English, the equipment is from the 70s, the runway feels like skiing moguls, and you're going to be turning around at the end of the runway one way or another. And despite having a runway collision between 2 planes back in like '06(2 friends of mine were on the kc-135), they'll still clear planes to line up and wait while you're facing head on and the the vis is less than 600m. oh yeah, all metric. every other plane in the airspace is speaking Russian and unless you know how to speak it, your sa is gone. some local traffic doesn't even have tcas. the airfield is closed for 2 hours when the president flies out of there. look at their record, the last 16 years have not been kind to planes visiting Manas. if you wanna talk about the treacherous airspace or the rocket shaped bottles of vodka in the duty free, hmu.
I love your channel, thank you. I haven't finished this video yet, but I just had a very good idea for a video or video series. Let me know if you're interested. It's an industry I'm involved in so I could give you some actual real info
When these automated landings are trained, do they train just the steps for ‘how to land’? Or does training include go-arounds followin deviations or fault? If the training includes only the successful landing, you arn’t training how to survive errors made during such landings. ‘FMA Fault 2?” May as well call it “FMA refer-to-manual-during-critical-flight-ops” Any chance you can emit a 3rd signal on the glideslopes to properly indicate false/true glideslopes? Or is that a case of making a complex system too complex?
Wow such terrible airmanship! Ignore multiple cautions and 5x gpws callouts! At airlines in the US, ANY crewmember can call for a go around. I've had FOs call for a go around when we were left high, and I exceeded 1000fpm during descent a couple times while trying to get down onto the glideslope. Afterwards he said "i just didn't like what I was seeing". I was happy he made the call and told him so.
Many mistakes, but why does the autopilot default to -3° rather than level flight? Is the expectation that pilots will pick up manually and continue the approach? Maybe in the specific case of an autoland the fallback ought to be different.
Yes they could. In an airspace that isn't too busy, this shoukd be granted. In practise, often pilots will just ask to extend their distance a little bit by flying on a heading 180° to the final approach until they feel they are ready. It's less disruptive for traffic flow than flying a 360.
What an amateurish video. The airline in question is not even Turkish Airlines, but the title misleads whatever reason. I hope Turkish Airlines will sue this crook.
@@n.o.b.1907 Hello N.O.B. I hope that you will be economical in your responses. Puertolex comment is very funny. Talking about suing? Farcical. What a jerk.
I would like to know more about the "false glideslope". First, for what purpose does it even exist? As to this flight, never mind the warnings that were ignored; what's maddening is how in the very world could this incorrect glideslope be ever captured in the first place???
It serves no purpose, it's just a side effect, if you will. One that's, as far as I know, impossible to supress. The treacherous thing is that it is impossible to intercept this glideslope for a short while (it is inverse, so it will almost be impossible to follow it for a long while). Avoiding this is possible with good situational awareness and altitude-to-distance checks, a thing that every good pilot should do. Most airlines even have that in their procedures. But if two pilots don't follow these procedures, well, accidents happen.
assuming that would have been an issue: does this not make it worse what the pilots did not do? Assuming or knowing about limited ATC service, it is the pilots job to avoid terrain. (Asking ATC for a lower flight level and complaining about not getting it is like being denied permission for controlled flight into terrain) Assuming spotty ILS equipment, it is the pilots job to monitor the glide slope and reject the landing, when the glide slope does not add up.
Strange, that 9 degree glide slope. Is it used by smaller aircraft? What was the berated ATC communications like? Could they have not warned them about the incorrect glide slope?
It kind of seems like low-visibility approaches into this airport should be forbidden and, if there's not a better airport without all the terrain around for planes to approach in bad weather, they ought to build one. There ought to be a lot more terrain clearance around major airports.
Confirmation bias with modern day pilots is actually lack of ability and skills to fly the aircraft manually and their heavy dependence on automation. If it isn't for automation, many, many, modern day pilots will not be able to fly the aircraft they fly every day. These pilots never would've been able to fly those older generation aircraft where there were none or very little automation. Nowadays any inkling of automation "working" they'll just go with it,; they won't double check it, cross check it and ready to take manual control of the aircraft if need be and guide it to the runway and land manually.
Whence do you have the apodictic certainty for your last statement? _( ...just go with it ... they won't double check it, cross check it...)_ How do you account for the fact that over *40 million flights were completed safely in 2018,* if pilots _nowadays_ conducted themselves as you claim they do?
*The opening of the video: "on a fuckin' morning in Chanawree" ? Where tha FAKKK lays Chanawree??? ... is this a computer generated voice or is it just the English which is off?*
He clearly says “on a foggy morning in January…”. He obviously speaks accented English, which we all technically do, and better than many English speakers (native or not) at that. I wouldn’t characterize “the English” as “off”, whatever that means.
Based on a similar comment you made on another of his videos, you seem to have a problem with this one word. To eliminate any frustration you might have moving forward with your watching videos on this channel, let me help you; he is sayin “January,” also know as the first month of the year on the Julian calendar. Hopefully that clears things up for you and you can live a less frustrated life.
Such a balanced and excellently produced mini documentary.👌🏽🤍 Kudos👍🏼 to you if you do most of these animations yourselves. . Unfortunate as it is, sadly such cannot be avoided in humans. And thus, personal idiosyncrasies, traits or shortcomings and situational dynamics will keep presenting such risks.
It seems to me that the egomaniacal captain felt so affronted by ATC that he completely failed to understand the demands of the approach - and proceeded to fail at handling every warning during the entire decent - probably due to his agitation as well… 🥲
