Arguably, the deadliest turn in aviation is the one from base leg to final approach. This brief video explains the common scenario that can lead to a stall/spin accident and provides some mitigation strategies to help avoid the mishap.
I had a commercial pilot tell me that he considered 25° in a banked approach as a safe limit. Very little rudder or no rudder on a nose down base to final would seem a safer procedure? I would if Microsoft Sim will put a Cessna into a spin on a final.
@@GeneBensonAviation Passenger jets yaw when banking from base to final but the air speed, flaps and banking stall envelope want allow an approach stall.
@@glennoc8585 Not all passenger jets have complete software protection against an approach stall, but it is highly unlikely to occur for two reasons. First, the crews are trained to a much higher level than most pilots of small GA airplanes. The advanced simulators are great learning tools. Also, the large jets use "spoilerons" which automatically work to increase roll while requiring less aileron displacement at low airspeeds. This results in less adverse yaw because the spoilers are not located as far out on the wings as the ailerons so therefore have a shorter moment arm.
On this topic I want to say this: Be very aware of a tailwind on base leg. If you have one, start your turn to final early. Also, a tailwind can give you the illusion of plenty of airspeed when it's only ground speed.
VERY good point on the tailwind giving the illusion of speed. The only real speed that matters to the wing is airspeed. My CFI used to always say “you need to stay ahead of the airplane.” Good words.
@@OnceShy_TwiceBitten the airspeed indicator would show something. If the controls feel mushy that suggests its close to stall. There seem to be a lot of general aviation accidents and stall is involved in many of them. I think people fail to give it a hard climb coming out for the go around.
Do you mean coming into a strong crosswind on landing? I always think I should just be flying faster. If you’re flying fast you’re flying safe right? I always want to turn base to final with a good dollop of airspeed to ensure I’m making that turn with a lot of air over the wings. I really don’t know though, I’m just a student pilot.
@@jackglossop4859 flying plenty fast is a good thing for a student or anybody else that has a long runway in front of him. Plenty of air speed around the airport should be the law in your heart. Fly wide turns. If you have to go around climb out thoroughly. The airport is an abnormal environment for an airplane and a pilot will easily overestimate his turning ability and his stall speeds and everything else because he just doesn't do it enough unless he's a short take-off and landing specialist. In a ship it's called losing steerage way where you still float but your Rudder is meaningless. In an airplane you are trying to dominate a slippery flowing elastic fluid. Your altitude in your horse power are like cash in the bank but AirSpeed is money in your hand. If you're too close to the ground and you catch a down draft or something you need to have enough AirSpeed to dominate.
During my younger days, I flew a variety of sailplanes from fairly easy to fly 1-26's with a very low stall speed to more high performance fiberglass ships with higher stall speeds and flaps. My original instructor in 1976 taught me to avoid abrupt turns to base and to final using more of a long sweeping 180 degree approach from the downwind leg with much less bank and steady speeds, when at all possible. That advice stuck with me through more than 20 years of safe and wonderful flights.
I have always added airspeed if im in an overshoot correction. Dont be afraid to put the nose down a few more degrees and trade altitude for airspeed. You can add power if needed, but the airspeed is the critical facter here.
@@davidpartridge9459 I can't remember just how many times my CFI barked in my ear: LOWER THE NOSE ADD POWER LOWER THE NOSE ADD POWER. I hated this at first but once I understood and practiced this maneuver it became clear. More than once it got me out of a low altitude and low speed issue.
On December 27, 2021 just such an incident occurred approaching Gillespie Field (KSEE) in San Diego County. I wish the crew had seen your recommendations and followed them. Thank you Mr. Benson for your efforts to reduce the pilot / operator errors in aviation. Hope you have a productive 2022.
Thanks for the kind words about my safety work. We do not yet know the cause of the Lear 35 tragedy in California, but it is possible that they fell victim to the scenario described in the video. It is also possible that they simply got too steep in the turn and experienced an accelerated stall. Personally, I think the underlying cause will be the pilots' decision making regarding IFR cancellation and switching runways in marginal weather conditions. Thanks for watching and for commenting.
Rule of thumb from my instructor when I was a student: "If you have *any* doubt, add power and go around!" Always remember the number 1 priority; Fly the aircraft! Everything else is secondary.
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Good topic to teach on. I always spend much time on the base to final stall spin scenario as a flight instructor. Not just with private students but all.
Very good advice for the general aviation pilot. Too many times pilots try to make corrections during a critical time in landing. This can lead to all of the problems that you describe. Safety is no accident. It is a firm commitment made by the pilot. Safe pilots live to fly another day!
The secret here is not to have the wing loaded up too much, don't raise the nose during the turn (that loads the wing) if you find you are a little low, complete the turn level the wings add power & then regain the profile wings level. It's the raising of the nose combined with a steep bank angle & crossed controls that's will bite yr ass!
I’m not a pilot and never will be. Your description of what I see as an incredibly dangerous manoeuvre if not done properly is perfect. It’s actually really scary….
Right on about this one capt. Also A down wind base about ALWAYS results in an overshoot and too steep bank. Our flight reviews now include defining the two uses for rudder & three uses for ailerons. Cheers CFI R bud Fuchs St. Louis
Keep the speed up, don't make steep turns close to the ground especially at low power settings. Know what the plane is doing and always be flying the thing.
@@jandejong2430 not the best advice. If you're consistently having to oval 180 degrees, there is something wrong with your flows. There are four portions of a pattern for a reason. Develop a pattern profile and practice it. Sure, sometimes you have a funky crosswind or, whatever and we'll have to oval out your downwind, base, final but.. If it's happening every time there's a bigger problem
Excellent description. I was taught to SLIGHTLY overturn (for want of a better description) downwind to base to approx 110 degrees, this gives a better view of the runway, reduces the turn to final and in practice, the headwind component will correct the actual ground track to prevent encroaching on the threshold. My 2c
This is a very logical solution or mitigation, as the video refers to. They don't really teach this, in my experience, but I'm going to consciously start doing this until the instructors tell me otherwise. I don't really understand the problem with flying a thousand feet farther on the downwind past the 90 degree angle point, other than extending the length in minutes, of your approach duration.
@@HighMo My instructor wouldn't let me extend my downwind....with the throttle at idle you want to be close enough to glide in case your engine stalls. Also taught me short-field landings...normally I had to add power to taxi the first turn-out.
@@readmore3634 Understand your point completely, but on the downwind, abeam the numbers, I've pulled power to 1500 and have 1st notch of flaps in. (PA28) I'm never at idle at this point. I think the big issue is the time spent in the pattern, particularly at the very busy GA airport I fly out of. They don't like LONG final approaches with all the small and medium size jets in the pattern. To complicate things further, I switched instructors and he wants no more than 20 degree bank angles on any turn in the pattern. That rounds things out significantly. My only issue at this point is consistently judging the point of roundout.
@@HighMo Thank you for the reply...Make no mistake, I'm a student pilot and haven't yet figured out what suits me best in the pattern....When I was a kid I built radio controlled model airplanes from wood. One of the many things I take from that is what flies and what struggles to fly. So even when I first started lessons, and my instructor, trying (from the first hour) to distract me from the moment, that no matter what....keep the airplane flying. And when you are low..... keep it flying with small inputs and fairly level wings. We practiced idle landings and short runway in case I ever had a problem. Oh....and never, ever bring it in on it's nose.
40 years ago after I got my PPL, al. All had left to spend was for touch and goes at Downtown Airport in KC. I loved doing short approaches, I’ve forgotten a lot of what I learned then and haven’t flown since then. I wonder how safe I was during those days in PA 28’s. I had a great instructor so I like to think I was safe.
16 year old student pilot from my neighbouring flight school was killed just 5 days ago due to this exact scenario. Extremely tragic and a huge wake-up call for all of us general aviators.
GOOD VIDEO.... All through this video, once I realized what the problem was that Gene was describing (at the point he mentions using ‘left rudder’??? to comp for being too wide on cross to final), I’m thinking....30deg bank MAX (on any turn). Just give yourself plenty of room with down to cross to final....or ‘go around’....NEVER FORCE IT!!! FLY SAFE...
While a student pilot in 1979, I had set myself up "perfectly" for a cross-control stall. I was *determined* to land the airplane. However, instead of not being here to talk about it, it was like someone had suddenly slapped me in the head and I immediately realized what I was doing, righted the situation, requested a go-around, and learned a very valuable lesson! If things don't "feel" right, they probably aren't. Some 40 years later I still hear my first instructors words, *"Just fly the airplane."*
It's important to those who do not know, we don't request a go-around, we declare / advise a go-around. First things first. Aviate, navigate, communicate. You should be halfway down the runway before you even let Tower know you're on-the-go. Cram. Climb. Clean. Call!
If you set your approach speed with trim tab, control your altitude with throttle and drop additional 10 degrees of flaps at every turn stall should never be an issue on approach. You should not make any elevator inputs on approach until final flair and touchdown. Just the way I been doing it since 1970. If you have anything going wrong don’t fight it go around it is safer.
I fly RC scale models as I have always been fascinated with flying. It is common to hear someone say watch that corner of the field on landing as you can experience radio interference. After crashing some planes and witnessing many others it is a tip stall turning into wind in preparation for landing approach (not radio problens). As you turn into wind the model reaears up from the lift and as you are so focused on the landing you reduce throttle to the point of tip stall. I have seen it many times. (We have airline pilots fly at the clubs well sometimes).
The important point that is missed here is that even if the ball is exactly in the middle at the point of stall the wing may drop due to the use of flap or power. Flap promotes TIP STALL.Power promotes TIP STALL. Anything that causes the tip to stall before the root can cause wing drop. It is the wing drop that causes surprise and startle and if not corrected immeadiately it will lead to very large bank angle and pitch down. Most low hours pilots now faced with a windscreen full of scenery will in instinctively pull back and their fate is sealed and they hit the ground vertically nose first. Carrying an extra 5 to 10 knots on the base to final turn can help. Listening out and looking out prevents circuit surprises. You only have to avoid traffic you didn't see! 99% of pilots need to improve their LOOKOUT WORK CYCLE. Having a landing light and not using it in the circuit is poor CRM and shows lack of common sense. SEE & BE SEEN. THE HARRY BROWN PROJECT
Harry Brown Right. Even coordinated turn, if you pull up in panic due overshooting, it will drop the inside wing. And if adding power with not enough rudder in a say 45 degree turn at say 400 agl. You will drop the wing further too. Lots of BS here from guys that dont do full steep turn stalls or steep turn go arounds..
You said "Flap promotes tip stall." That makes no sense because when you lower the flaps you also have to lower the nose, i.e. reduce your Angle of Attack, to avoid ballooning, and also slowing down. Also, just to see if you know what you're talking about, what's the most likely scenario of a tip stall occurring?
@hh6986 The important point that you missed is only pilot induced aft elevator input can cause a stall. Things such as speed, slips, skids, tight turns, wing loading, ALL have ZERO affect on when a wing stalls which can only happen at a given critical angle of attack (AOA). If you are a pilot and do not understand your plane's stall stick position is the same every time then you are missing a critical factor in your aviation. I rarely look at my airspeed indicator, but I always KNOW at all times how far my stick is from my belly button! When landing I use the stick to control my airspeed and engine power to control height. A plane can stall at any airspeed. Just pull back and see.
I learnt to fly in a Drifter, rag and tube aircraft, what they describe as a 'high drag/low inertia' aircraft. I did 200 hours on Drifters and then had to give it up due to cost. My instructor taught deadstick landings from the end of downwind, a lot to do with the two stroke motors having a tendency to fail. The turn onto base was usually at 45 degrees to touchdown, and from there it was just two gentle turns with the aircraft about 10 knots above stall. I really felt more comfortable with plenty of speed and made my turns nice and shallow. If I was too high, I side-slipped. Too low, just added a little power to get me there. If ANYTHING didn't feel (or look) right I went straight to full throttle and went around. I really like the 'military' style of circuit flying, where a nice half circle to touchdown is flown from the end of downwind. Anybody looking for me when I make the calls is going to see me pretty close to where I'm saying I am and the end result is one nice smooth turn with the touchdown point in perfect view the whole time. If I ever get back to flying that's how I'll be doing it...
Thanks for the comment, but I must respectfully disagree with the half-circle to touchdown for general aviation, especially at a non-towered airport. Whether in a high-wing or low-wing airplane, visibility one direction will be blocked by a raised wing. Leveling the wings on base leg provides an opportunity to check for traffic on both sides. Many pilots at non-towered airports do not communicate, either because they have no radio capability, are on the wrong CTAF frequency, or simply choose not to use the radio. The military use of the half-circle approach is successful because they are generally operating in a more controlled environment with all pilots communicating and flying the same type pattern.
At London Heathrow airport, nothing flies an actual base leg. Aircraft turn onto final from a heading thirty degrees off. Ninety degree turns while low and slow are just a bad idea. There is a youtube video from Oshkosh of a plane sideslipping into the ground from a tight turn onto a far too short final. Most comments suggest it is due to turbulence from a preceding plane, but it is as clear as day that the wing became totally stalled under the increased load.
Ok here is a mitigation strategy that will likely generate some controversy: I think folks should practice a nose down slip when you see that you are over standing final. And I think this should be practiced. In a left pattern, that means right rudder, nose down and slipping until you gain proper alignment. If you have been maintaining proper altitudes in your approach to final, this "quick slip" gets you down and aligned very quickly--at least in the slow airplanes I have flown. If you keep the nose down, the plane will quickly gain forward control when you get aligned and center the ball. If after a quick slip you are still too high you need to go around. I am not sure why this is not taught. I would be interested in feedback. I fly Citabria, Cub, Champ and maybe these airplanes lend themselves to this process, but I am reminded of an airliner that made an emergency engine out landing at a closed field in Canada and used the slip to align and lose altitude when it had no other option. I have often felt that teaching slipping and spins should be part of the basic PPL curriculum.
I just tried to do a stall/spin in my Legacy simulator, at 4000' AGL so that I had room to attempt a spin recovery. In landing configuration (gear down, full flaps, 105 kts) it recovers in a very docile manner from overshooting base to final, overcorrecting, and then stalling with full cross controls. The nose goes down, wing does not drop. I won't be trying it in the real aircraft, though. The good news is that flying the aircraft anywhere close to right is very, very far from stall/spin. So, airspeed up, dirty side down.
The elephant in the room is that for some reason in North America people are being told by their instructions that the airplane has to be in touchdown configuration while on Base, and than to make a 90° turn to final. Why? Fly the airplane onto final and while on final put it into the landing configuration and land. Stop being at touchdown speed before turning Final, and you'll not die while making this "most dangerous turn".
Precisely. If it is not good, level off, give it some power so you can retract flaps and if need be inform ATC you need re-sequencing if you don't feel comfortable with a go-around and exit the pattern. The extra time may give you the moments you need to recover from the adrenaline dump. If you are following the rules on fuel load, you should be fine.
This is exactly what happened to me. I had a psychotic instructor who gave me NO help. I overshot on Base to Final at about 500 feet and turned back 180 descending turn and 90 sharp turn left for a landing. I think the only thing that saved me was due to my inexperience, I didn't use the rudder, only ailerons. The instructor offered NO help during this landing. I REALLY believe he was suicidal and reported him to CASA. I had a meeting with management and found out that later he had been PROMOTED.
This particular Flight School is at Bankstown Sydney. Do your research if you ever go there. DO NOT go to this school. My bad experience is not the only one by far. MANY Students plan to take up legal action.
Which flight school at Bankstown ? That's where I learnt in the early 90's but their are many different schools there. I studied at the Chieftan flying school and they were great.
@@paulrichards2365 : Right mate. Sue the flight school How many have died? None, you say? There goes your legal case. If you had really messed up your CFI would have stepped in. Otherwise, a student ends up just paying for someone to fly you around.
I always say if go around needed, everything goes to the firewall (yoke, throttle, carb heat, mixture). That’s exaggerating it a little but I think you get the idea. Then bleed off flaps when solid positive rate of climb is established. Also, be ready to rapidly adjust elevator trim based on how you had it set during final approach. If rusty, or in doubt, see your nearest CFI. There’s always room to learn more.
Good presentation. One big problem is that most CFIA’s do not teach the traffic pattern as a flexible, precision, maneuver. One big factor in the base to final turn is when to begin. For most pilots it’s a guess. That guess can lead the poor pilot into a messy situation that may end up being non-survivable. Use of
I learned to fly at non-controlled airport. This was almost 40 years ago. I always notified everyone that I was heading straight out from the runway until I was at least 2500 above ground level. And even then, turns were always as shallow as I could make them.
Great video, much appreciated. Question; So, on base to final. It the pilot is making a safe 20-30 degree left bank with slight left rudder to keep it coordinated then it’s in & safe? Does the pilot need to provide “full left rudder” to create a deadly stall & spin or just enough left rudder to push the ball passed the middle more towards the right side?
If the bank angle does not exceed 30 degrees, the ball is in the center, and the airspeed is normal for the approach, everything should be fine. Full rudder is not needed for the stall spin, but the more the ball moves out of the brackets the more danger is presented.
…. visual cues and understanding your position relative to the wind and runway are essential to success. Think I’ll write up the process for this fellow’s website. Taught 7,000-
….hours and never had a student become a law dart due to screwing up that dangerous turn. Sorry about the segmentations. Fat fingered I guess. Or gremlins.
Thanks for the comments. I am always interested in having a guest article for our VectorsForSafety.com publication. Feel free to contact me directly via email at gene@genebenson.com.
The answer to this problem is even more simple......stop teaching students rectangular traffic patterns.... there is no reason for a squared off turn from base to final . It is ponderous why instructors insist on drawing out rectangular traffic patterns instead of a gradual turn into final.
I'm 72 and rented 150's and 152's since '75.....i always watched bank, airspeed and ball on turn coordinater.. don't get too low turning final, i always come slightly high, then can come down with flaps or forward slip near the runway. Better safe than sorry.. now i have a boat...🇺🇸
I agree with your stay high approach so you never have to rely on your engine to get you there. Like you said, flaps or forward slip at the end if you need it. There would be many alive today if they'd stayed at or above their glide angle, (adjusted for wind of course).
In a turn, at lower airspeeds, it's always a better idea to keep the ball in the middle and fly the plane to the correct track with proper airspeed for the attitude and no more than 30* of bank angle. For sure, get a CFI to put the plane into a descending low airspeed turn and witness the opposite effect the ailerons create as the outside aileron effectively increases the AoA of the wing on the outside of the turn. Scary shit close to the ground. See it at altitude. Once you understand what it's going to do, you'll be watching your airspeed more closely.
Just curious if there’s a great disparity of these type of incidents between high and low wing? I believe you might see more racetrack patterns and overshoots with high wing.
Just had this conversation with my CFI, square vs oblong patterns. He is of the opinion that oblong works for fast low wing aircraft. He feels that a high winged plane will block the view of the runway if it's in a continuous bank. A squared pattern enables the high wing aircraft to fly level for a longer period on each leg, giving the pilot a better idea of his position and also a better view of traffic.
@tdkeyes1 I would agree with that if you have the luxury of that. As the previous owner of a 172, I encountered numerous situations where I had parallel traffic, or while in the pattern, I was assigned another runway while on downwind. The 3rd issue I ran into frequently was to tighten my pattern in heavy traffic. Each one of the circumstances eliminated the luxury of flying a squared off pattern. While I adapted to whatever was thrown at me, I very much preferred a squared off pattern with that particular plane (172).
Gene, good video. I might add that 30 degree bank angle is the min. require. You have to throw that wing up - make the 90 degree turn and drop it again.. You do this because you want others in the traffic pattern or on approach to see you. If, on final, you're not lined up just go around. Keep adjusting the distance between your downwind line and the runway center line. It's also very important that you keep your head on a swivel. Always get a good CFI there's some really bad ones out there. Fly & Save
Yeah, doing low, slow steep turns are good. To make a hole on the ground.. You must be the product of one of those bullshit CFI that talks but dont do the hard maneuvers like accelerated stalls or engine fails on take off. USA is full of BS CFI's. They cannot teach in Canada due that..
I rammed this into my son before he soloed. It was rammed into me as pilots tend to concentrate on lining up with the runway and can take their eye off of the ASI ... this turn occurs at about 700 feet and this isn't enough height to allow recovery to happen. A spin from 700 feet WILL kill you.
My instructor, a WW2 pilot, threatened to beat me with a two by four if I insisted on picking up the wing with aileron. I had already earned my Private at this point, and am eternally grateful, that Don McCann taught me the proper use of rudder, and the many tricks he taught, that are not in the book! I thought I was good, until a master broke me of bad habits that would have probably killed me by now. God bless you Don! R.I.P.
@@ConvairDart106 -- There is a famous CFI (Jason Schapper ) here on you tube recovering from near or full stalls on a c172 by twisting the opposite aileron to almost full and saying he only needed a bit of rudder to recover. You can tell he cheated on the spin section of the CFI practice.. If ever did them.. Many do Mild spins, get endorsement required, and thats it.. Then go teaching that bullshit to students.. And killing them later on too..
my lord, if i went in for flying a plane, i'd make damn sure i aced my book studies. and what happens with added real life variables? seems like you gotta know these relationships like the back of your hand or you're dead.
And related to this is what the AOPA online course calls "The Impossible Turn." This occurs when people experiencing a partial/full engine failure shortly after takeoff try to do a 180 back to the field and spin out (or at least run out of altitude). I think what this whole topic comes down to is what Mark said below, it is all cerebral. When under sudden pressure understanding why a sloppy turn at low altitude can kill you, or why it is better to land dead stick more-or-less straight ahead, should prevent making these errors. Visualizing ahead of time a good approach and what to do in an emergency can make all the difference. In the glider I fly my learned habit at the end of the checklist is to run through what to do if there is a low altitude rope break or towplane engine failure. I've had these and thanks to good training they were quite manageable. (In a glider you can make a low altitude 180 and we practice that; on the other hand, when they spin, they really spin. With a moment's inattention to the pattern's wind gradient we came darn close to losing a club member.)
This is not the same as the "Impossible Turn." That scenario involves an attempt to return to the departure runway following a loss of engine power soon after takeoff. This video describes the dangers of an uncoordinated turn in the traffic pattern from downwind leg to base leg.
Golly Gee! I've flown for a coupla days and don't remember ever ''encountered'' the ''deadly'' base to final turn. But if what you have to say saves some pilots, good on ya
After the student had a few hours I always covered the airspeed indicator in the pattern, never allowed my students to bank more than thirty degrees in the pattern I limited that to twenty on base to final. I also taught them to never load up the wing on base to final turn and never ever cross control. If they did it was out to the practice area for a hour of spins. Amazing how they never cross controlled again on me.
small banking angle is preferred for large aircraft which is often not possible because of small distance flight and going around maneuver is also the best strategy if things are not favorable for landing (most airlines companies are on saving gas, conducting frequency of trips (sometimes engines never put off in Nepal), cutting operational costs is not wishing their pilots do the go-around maneuver often. See pilot's rewards)
I see this happen at our rc field, especially if there is much wind. A high angle turn, low power, nose up, low altitude - and in less than a second the pilot is walking out to pick up the pieces. Full scale, in cockpit pilots don't walk away from this crash. Rc pilots walk away - " a way" out into the field and pick up the pieces !
I have a Cherokee 140. My A&P said if he lost an engine on takeoff, he'd do a 180 at Only 509 feet. I said no 1000. He shook visibly. I've owned this aircraft since 1989. Took it up. Simulated engine out, counted to 10. Then executed 180. I list about 350 feet, with stalk light blinking entire time. When learning Radio Control, we were taught NEVER do a 180 if loosing an engine on takeoff. The reactions I learned saved my 140 (from RC) when botching a landing on a narrow runway. Full power saved the day; optical illusion stalled it on, bounce up to hight of open hangers.
I'm not sure why they are over shooting the turn onto final. Wasn't their downwind long enough for an adequate base to final to allow time to line up with the runway?
First common problem: be hurry. Death chain: Short final, not enough time to stabilize. "Get there itis" on landing for any cost... crash. Some good CFI said: Go Around is first option ever, landing is second if all parameters are good. If PIC have any doubt go around and clear problems.
in 19 years I have only had 2 go around's. One I was less than 10 hrs solo and the other was just last year goofing off and did not check the winds and blew way past the center line. Scary stuff, I hate learning from someones death, makes me anxious about flying.........
I excited a ground on my private pilot check ride. After completing the sheckride the the examiner said that although he had confidence that I would have axially pulled of the the landing I did the go around on, he would have failed me for doing so because it good piloting decision making to do so. Good approach good landing, iffy approach iffy landing, go around, not a good habit to get into trying to save iffy approaches.
Don't try for a short final. That puts manoeuvring speed too low, and even if you don't screw up the controls as illustrated here, the extra wing load of a steep bank could simply stall the entire wing. Don't try to make a turn below about 40-45% above stall speed.
I cant buy into this debate. All pilots should learn the basic formula and how to apply it ie., CL.HALF.ROW.V.SQUAREDS. Turning final is a very natural balanced turn with a reduction in speed, perhaps.but not always mandatory. But the formula above explains it all. Also what is vital is spin training. A PA 28 is a very good spinning aircraft which will teach you a great deal. I know the FAA don't approved spinning in the US, but the rest of the world does. In fact aeroplanes that dont spin safely one should really keep away from. Retired CPL bush pilot.
I agree. I have always taught my students to check the windsock and also to note how much, if any, crab angle is needed while on downwind. Then, if it is determined that there will be a tailwind component on base, begin the turn onto final a little sooner than normal.
