The back-up battery voltage was at the end of the data list you scrolled through -"TCU BuB Voltage", 2.360 That's a seriously wrecked lithium cell, if that's what it uses, well below the threshold it will properly charge.
Everytime he shut the driver's side door, it sounded like a older model vehicle with rusted out lower doors. One fuse moved by itself, the other disappeared completely. Land Rover, how the mighty have deteriorated.
I saw the TCU battery voltage at 8:19 and it was 2.36V. TCU Bub Voltages- Rechargeable Bub. How did I drive 5 motorcycles and 5 cars since 1985 without the telematics. Jeez.
When people buy these POS, they just go oooo ahhhhh when the stealer shows them all the bells and whistles. The KIND of people that buy them do not think about what's behind the ooos and aaahhhhs. Chances are they think a dip stick is a utensil for scooping caviar.
A good friend of mine from school sold used Volvos. Some of his Volvo customers had Land Rovers, so he added Land Rovers to his lot. I asked him if Land Rovers were as good as their old reputation? He answered, "Best thing to ever happen to my service shop!"
Trouble is, there is a difference between Land Rovers and Range Rovers Land Rovers have a military background and parts of them are meant to break,like fuses to protect other more critical parts, and really meant to be serviced by the R.E.M.E There is really nothing wrong with the mechanical concept of Range Rovers, but they suffer from and always have, with crap wiring. I don’t know why, we can do wiring very well !
Ivan, consider getting a larger soldering iron and use flux for soldering 18650 cells. You want more thermal mass to transfer heat quickly and locally. Cells usually do not like to get hot and can be damaged, so you want minimize the time you are applying heat to avoid transferring heat to other parts of the cell. One trick you can use is to cool down the cell in the fridge for some time before you solder.
In general you shall not solder on the 18650 cells, get cells with the soldering tabs already welded on or get a proper spot welder for those cells. Those cells are very heat sensitive.
Can confirm. I built myself a battery and ended up destroying a few cells because I used a small solder iron. A big one, or even a cheap terminal welder makes things much easier and safer.
Don't even try to solder them. Both the strips and the battery are nickel plated and you need to get through that plating before solder will work. There are spot welding machines that are cheap and will weld the strips without heating the cell too much.
I’m not sure if I was seeing things but at 8:20 it looks like the diagnostic does display the tcu back up battery voltage in the live data. Think it was labelled TCU BuB voltages - rechargeable BuB. Also I wonder if a module recieves a “go to sleep” message from the audio amp module. Could that have caused the battery drain? My guess for the fuse mystery is another mechanic found the blown 40amp fuse for the audio but put the new one in the wrong slot by mistake. Can’t wait to see how the audio fuse and the no start come together or if they are actually seperate problems. Love these mysteries and these great videos 👍
Spending over 30 years troubleshooting electro-mechanical equipment (not cars), I would say to myself often "there's a story here" when diagnosing issues. I would use it when I would find that something has been messed with, but I am told that no one touched it. It would alter how I would proceed because now everything is suspect.
Agreed! It's not infrequent that you need to be more psychological detective (who did what, and what was their thinking behind what they told me?) than system diagnostician.
If Ivan can't fix it, nobody can. Have to be not only a mechanic, diagnostician, but also a detective and instructor....Then have a RU-vid channel and also become a producer. Solid work! Our World. Haha
I recon that'll fix it. Just wait for the '"Aaargh, you NEVER directly solder a Li-ion battery, you HAVE TO spot weld them" crowd to open fire with both barrels !. I have soldered them many times, and haven't seen one have a future thermal runaway event yet... Lol. Thank you for posting your adventures, you do good work.
A wild cost for a "dealer only" car part plus it being out of stock can sometimes be a pretty reliable indicator that everyone in the world who needs one has found a much cheaper source.
Ivan, still no flux when soldering. But in this case you should have spot welded the contacts. A spot welder for battery contacts costs less than 100$ if even 50$ and saves the battery from too much heat stress.
@@evilla7579its still used a lot here in Europe. But yes many people that do not work with soldering electronics, do not use flux but they should. Its still better than soldering with flux.
@@v12alpine vapes don't have the BMS and wires attached to them. This is almost a direct replacement in the Harbor Freight lights... and they cost 20 bucks :) Don't need to solder nothing.
People: "Imagine a car that has a small rechargeable battery located in a module that when faulty randomly prevents the car from starting. That would be crazy!" Land Rover: "Let's make this idea a reality! Oh, and make sure that when the batteries start failing in about 5 years time, they are out of stock with no ETA."
…when the customer comes in for a battery, tell them the car is about to have a lithium fire and they need a brand new vehicle. Simplified planned obsolescence put into play.
Roadside assistance likely did the fuse swap on the first jump start or battery replacement.
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Possible solution to the fuse fairy: fuse was blown, tech removed it to get an exact same one from the parts counter, and put back it to the wrong place
@@dublindave5795 Customer's memory may be wrong. The question I'd pose to the customer is if they ever loaned their car to someone or if they have curious teenagers.
Didn't the battery die first before any of this started? The battery is in the rear by the fuse box. Maybe a fuse was caught and knocked out of position when the tech changed the battery and he noticed it and stuffed it back where he thought it came from?
Thanks, I have an app on my car, not a JLR product, but still very sketchy and I rarely use it. I suppose in very hot/cold environments it is useful to precondition the car, but even if I remote lock, I still go out and check. Solving an intermittent on a Land Rover infected by the fuse fairy is not for the faint hearted, well done.
3V over that battery. Seems like the low voltage protection kicked in. I can imagine the module getting either not getting properly 12V fed and it relied on the battery to probably keep 1.5V or 3.3V things alive and or the charging circuit of that Li-ion battery is faulty which might also be in that module. Also soldering batteries is never a good thing, You can get kind of cheap spot welders now that cost nearly nothing.
Great find Ivan, MB Sprinter vans 2019-2020 has a very similar auxiliary battery that does almost the exact same as that piece of crap. You have now provided me a potential fix. Wonderful.....
Similar issues with Mercedes setup , aux battery keep essential items live , just a small battery as your probably aware but cause so many issues and always hidden in the depths , great viewing
I wouldn’t be surprised at all if Ivan does this fix with a 3 or 4 dollar battery. Almost expecting it! Ivan, I hope Your getting compensated for a good portion of Your diagnostic “research” on these cases that others can’t solve. It is deserved. 👍👍🇺🇸
I have lots of old 18650 batteries taken out of disassembled old laptop batteries. I leave the welded on tabs on the cells, I just cut them apart at the middle of the joining strip. That way I can use what's left of the strip to solder on.
Great catch! Many comments here showing at 8:19 in the video the "TCU BuB Voltage" at 2.36 volts. (That backup battery) What is wrong is that the data field is "2360" and in Blue text. The voltage is BELOW acceptable range. The display should be in RED text and showing proper voltage. "2360" is wrong. "2.360 V" is the correct syntax and it should be in RED text, showing error condition.
This repair is exactly the reason why, in my trbl shooting career, I became *highly* skeptical of any story when asking 'what happened here?'. It seems the 18650 cell, which at some point will definitely fail, is needed to cold boot the TCU? If true, then the entire module is poorly thought out and seems a guaranteed service call.
This isn't the first time you ran into this Ivan I've watched a few of your videos and saw the missing fuse it's got to be frustrating specially with a beast like that kudos to you with your diagnostic skills and procedures to troubleshoot an issue well done. You're only as good as the information you receive from the customer my guess is he was in there playing around
The suspense and the rattling of the door of a over $100 K mall crawler really blows my mind. I wonder how accurate third party scanners and data infos are in this particular case over OEM. Many comments mentioned the TCU BuB low voltage in the data stream but it was not highlighted and not even called out as voltage. The give away was that those batteries are on back order at the stealer. Which meant, are you ready to trade it in for a new $150K Range Rover?
Every car I get is the same way 10 codes people just don’t fix anything until the car completely stops running then they wonder why the bill is so expensive.
I agree, and a lot of codes a typical customer never knows anything about as they don't trigger a warning light. My personal Land Rovers for example have always had at least a couple of 'nuisance' codes...
I was a manufacturing engineer where we had almost a hundred resistance spot welders on the shop floor. It's what I thought of as you pulled the terminals off with vise grips.
Often stay at an airport hotel in Birmingham UK and see car transporters with 6-8 brand new Landrovers leaving the nearby factory at Solihull, every time I see one I think there goes another load of trouble!
I used to solder batteries into similar packs for commercial lock sets, the manufacturer stopped making them and the university had a building with 300 plus lock sets. My boss was thrilled!!! I got a bonus matter of fact, worked as good as original👍
Interesting diag. Looking fwd to part 3. I once had to troubleshoot a battery charging circuit of a new product for a company I worked for. The pcb with the charging circuit was designed by another company, so this was new to me. A little poking around, some temperature and voltage data acquisition, and some research lead me to understand that the charge curve was in part dictated the by battery temperature change over time, monitored by an attached thermistor. Long story short: I'm guessing there's a thermistor integrated into the swapped wiring and I hope Ivan can cover the new battery in such a way as to maintain proper thermistor-battery contact, as well as the temperature characteristics of the original wrap. In my case, a full battery discharge/recharge cycle was required to reset the battery monitor.
I guess I'm one of those REEEE people. It's pretty easy to do spot welding of tabs for under $100 nowadays. But $140 at the dealer?? I'd guess everyone else DIYs the battery too, since a quality bare is about $10 with shipping.
You couldn't helped it, could you? There's nothing wrong in soldering the traditional way as long as you don't overheat them. You watch too many youtube tutorials.
@@alexdragomirescu5084 Rechargeable cells (e.g. Lithium ion or NiMH/NiCd) should _NEVER_ be soldered. The +ve cap contains the safety vent with a rubber seal, the chances of getting it hot enough to create a good joint without damaging that are very slim. It's not even a good idea to solder alkaline primary cells, but at least you know they are going to leak whether you solder them or not.
My brother in law is a computer programmer of 42 years..He told me the new generation of programmers are hopeless here in the UK and around the world due to the lack of experience and in depth knowledge ,along with cheaper staff from India saving them money.These problems are also found on Aircraft using the CAN bus systems,Scary
Amazing effort for you going through this diagnostic process though when you don't have the full JLR software. The vehicles will not start if the TCU battery is flat or if the TCU is disconnected, this isn't unique to the Discovery but is the same for all JLR vehicles and can be annoying on cars like the iPace. The 2017MY TCU was notorious for issues, the company that makes them was changed and then any replacement TCU cannot be properly coded. I had a dealership try 6 TCUs on my old Disco5 with a TCU issue, non of them could be coded by the Master Technician and even JLR head office couldn't code them when hooked up to the car.
I was the same problem with a Chevrolet Tahoe , the same push the bottom and don't start....the problem was in the motor start , buy new and resolved the problem with the Tahoe.
One thing I would do is to put the 40 amp fuse back in the original position and see if the No start scenario happens BEFORE I replaced the 3.6 volt battery back in the module to see if that they were related in any way. I don't think they are but it's a simple check to do to eliminate any possibility that there is some relationships between the No start issue.
I had a nightmare LR3 with a similar set up and a not crank unless you disconnected the battery and let the capacitors drain. Then you got one start. The vehicle had several bad modules. The audio module and touch screen modules were dead shorted(missing fuses for a reason) after all the high speed chassis and powertrain modules were up and running it still wouldn't start. Figured out the MOST network was the last component for start authorization. Which was the audio and touch screen modules. Can't wait to see what you found.
Ahhh,, the magic of the app,, you know people are so in love with that stuff and you can NEVER trust it to work consistently.. I have a Honeywell app controlled Wi-Fi thermostat for my HVAC at the house and you never know what the hell it's going to do... It works properly MOST of the time but it works when it wants to ALL of the time...
Yep, any time a tool goes missing, or a fuse mysteriously jumps to a different fuse holder, it's NEVER operator error, it's ALWAYS a fuse fairy or the little green man to blame👍🤣
Man! I got to the end of this series of videos with this one at 1.30 am! Nooooooo! I can’t go to bed without knowing the outcome. Please post next video soon.
Once your phone is connected to your car you are friends with the internet and vehicle manufacturer and their buddies. Think speakers and mics used to tell things to operate.
Actually you made two changes. You removed a fuse from an unknown circuit. Then you installed a fuse in the amplifier circuit. What’s the other circuit do ?
3v on an 18650 lithium cell is a dead battery! That’s the exact fix I would’ve done. It’s ridiculous that they would charge that much for an 18650 cell with a connector attached. You should pick up or make yourself a spot welder with an old microwave transformer. They come in handy for working with lithium cells and they’re pretty fun to play with too 😂
Mind blowing, Ivan! The undocumented weird interoperability of the modules is simply absurd! That app just adds to the complication, with limited reliable functionality (if the car doesn't get a good network signal, it can't respond). It's outrageous that the charge on a Li-Ion battery can stop the car from working! And you stopped just when we were about to see the results - that was mean :-)
Ivan, hope you will measure the charge/discharge current on that new cell. Check if the newly installed 18650 in the TCM will charge with the engine running. If the module pulls 2-3 mA in "stand-by" or sleep mode and is not charged, the cell will be low voltage in 2 months. NB - Audi A6 also didn't crank when the MMI (Multi Media Interface) had a problem... Waiting for part III.
I know techs at Land Rover. They replace TCU's like popcorn. The fuse got pulled during some diagnostics when a tech was on the phone with the engineering helpline. He forgot to replace it. The dealers have a shortage of qualified advanced techs. Recruiting is tough and the guys clever enough to do this work have better options than working on vehicles for mediocre pay. The older master techs are retiring or not interested in the never ending warranty claims on the new technology.
I have one of the new Camaro's and have the APP to start/unlock/lock flash etc. I only use it to start my car leaving work, i work in a mall by the time i get to my car it is already warmed up and good to go! It does tell me when the command has been actioned so that does help
something similar. When computers first came out after about 4 or 5 yrs many would not open up. Just out of the blue. There was clock battery in the system and if that batty went bad or failed to charge your computer would not come on. Same person designed this LR system
This reminds me of the security module in a 2002 Mercedes I was having trouble with. It was causing the headlights to flash continuously no matter what, until you either let it run the battery down or remove its fuse. The problem was the same. Its internal battery was toast. I couldn't get a replacement so I bought a different battery of the same voltage and wired it in externally, taping the battery to the case. The module still fit in its holder, and problem was fixed!
Not that I think you would have gotten a lot 9f info from it but there was a "TCU BuB" data pid. The BuB of course being short for back up battery. Just an observation. Great stuff and thank you for your content.
I would populate that fusebox with the appropriate fuses. No manufacturer now pins and cables a fuse box location if not required for that vin. Same with wiring harnesses throughout the vehicle.
You should check that there is a voltage TO the battery, ensuring the battery is in fact kept re-charged. Also check the discharge current FROM the battery. It should be in the low µA range (inserting µA meter in the positive lead).
good idea, check current flow and make sure it's charging. My guess is the vehicle sat too long and killed the cell, lithium doesn't like to be over discharged.
Hi Ivan . Just a little history. The Landrover was put down in a article by a writer in the TIMES magazine. Landrover sued and won . It’s now manufactured in Brazil ,China , Slowvakia ,& the UK . But like most vehicles has its problems. Again Ivan an other great fix. 👍🔧⚒🛠💥 I know your not finished we know you’re a winner.
@@bullbutter9699 one mans opinion is just that one mans . I would never buy one . Like most of British cars they lost the world market. I don’t see any here in Canada one or two . Greetings from Canada 💥🔧🛠⚒🇨🇦👍
Bull, wait till you have to figure out a dual dry clutch automatic transmission which is manual or automatic. My first time, I pulled my hair out, second time no hair left to pull.
Reminds me of a computer out of the 80's with a dead bios battery...... it'll turn on but you have to tell it what hard drive is in it every time before it can do anything
No one would have thought about Multimedia would cause a starting problem i think every mechanic would have first fix the starting problem first then go for others like radio . Damn who would thought the radio or multimedia is causing the car not to crank or start.. I wont edit my comment though lol Great job Ivan
