#sonicthehedgehog #sonic #sonicfrontiers Let's talk about Sonic but moreso let's talk about how we talk about Sonic. And While we talk about how we talk about us talking about Sonic let's talk more about Sonic, ya feel?
I think the Sonic fan base is a good case of the franchise itself deserving a lot of the blame. The fact that Sonic fans (who usually don't have much experience of how to manage a franchise) feel like they have to protect their vision of "the brand", speaks volumes of their trust for Sega, or lack there of. To large numbers of people, even if they don't realize it, Sega has developed a reputation of being untrustworthy, to have disregarded and reinvented Sonic's foundations and general direction so many times that many of us have become incapable of accepting the final product. The solution to this seems to be the idea that through feedback we can help guide the franchise in the "right direction". Franchises like Mario or Zelda do make changes in between games, but the feeling of brand consistency is still there, I don't know how to explain it because I'm not an expert, but there is a sizable amount of trust from the consumers. Look at Spark the Electric Jester, what portion of its fanbase do you think will be demanding that Spark 4 is made, or that it introduces/removes/brings back a certain mechanic? I think people respect Lake's decisions and vision for the franchise, even if that means not seeing Spark in action ever again, we can still see the positive side of things. Sega doesn't get that kind of respect, and they don't even try to earn it.
That sounds about right, but I feel like Sega and Sonic originally did have somewhat a feeling of brand consistency, but the majority of this fan base was either too dumb or too stubborn to notice it. Either that, or they were introduced to Sonic through the SATAM series and got PO when Sonic Adventure was nothing like it, making them think that Sega had made too many changes to the brand, when in actual fact they really didn't.
@@bowmaj8666 But they kinda did tho. Adventure started some sort of rebrand, replacing the interpretation of Sonic and his world that had come before. The characters were redesigned, the lore was kinda reworked and reorganized, personalities were reinterpreted for modern technology, the world's vibe and aesthetic was changed... Whatever was the preferred incarnation of Sonic in the 90's, Adventure was going to be different, and intentionally so. Mario for example also had some changes with the big jump to 3D, like Sonic, "Classic" Mario was completely abandoned for some time. But Sonic didn't change just once, but many times. Sonic 3 isn't the same as Sonic Adventure, or Sonic Colors, or Frontiers, or even Sonic Mania. Ironically enough, "Classic Sonic" is the modern conception of what Sonic was kinda like in the 90s without being exactly the same, for some reason my 10 year old cousin just calls him "Santiago" But yeah, there were still similarities, I think I get what you're saying
@@JM57-99 That may be the case, but these changes that they made really aren't as much of a big deal as people make them out to be. At least nothing as major as other franchises, like Mario or Zelda. Mario 64 has plenty of changes to the older Mario games, but you never hear Mario fans complaining that it's "not a true Mario game" or whining "not MY Mario!" And yet, even if that did happen, the people at Nintendo have the sense not to listen to them. That's the main difference here.
@@TheTeknicalRonan Sorry, I'm a bit confused. You said eye color in your first comment. Did you mean arm color? In fairness, I kind of feel like the eye colour argument is arguably worse, because Sega clearly listened to that crap! They brought back Sonic's black eyed design as an entirely separate character to the green eyed one, because that's exactly what these whiners were doing; treating them like they were separate entities. It was kind of pathetic, yet Sega gave them what they wanted, almost like they were thinking "well, this is our fan base, people! This is what they want! Better give it to 'em!" The arms thing was just as pathetic, but it never lingered in the fan base like a bad smell! Honestly, after they redesigned Sonic for the live action movie, I was half expecting people to start whining "But he still has green eyes and blue arms! THAT'S NOT MY SONIC! He should look more like Classic Sonic! Redesign him again or I'm never seeing this movie!" Thank goodness that never happened!
One of my goals is to get Microsoft to create a social media platform. Where are you can’t get banned the algorithm blocks inappropriate content and links can be investigated through a combination of video call and screen recording given what one streaming is. I’m surprised that they haven’t done that yet.
1: I am tired of people using "autistic/autism" to imply stupidity when autism isn't an intelligence thing. I have autism and I have never been held back by it. Hell, in some cases I feel smarter than those without autism, I can pay closer attention to things, my senses are more sensitive and I hyper focus on stuff, none of that has to do with impaired intelligence, the first two are actually a good thing in most cases. This isn't the 1900s, it is 2024. Do a simple Google search and educate yourself.(BTW, this is to those who imply autism=stupid. Not the person who made the video.) 2: I can somewhat understand wanting to not let certain opinions be heard by SEGA and Sonic Team since them trying to please the entire fan base is why it took them 11 years after Generations to release the next decent modern Sonic game. However, I agree that the toxic behavior some people get when someone so much as likes a different Sonic render than the one they do is pointless and is only going to make things worse. Yes SEGA and Sonic Team are part of the problem and need to stop taking what fans say so seriously and maybe do what they wanna do with Sonic instead, but the toxic parts of the fan base still need to take accountability and blame for their part. Just because they gave you "power" to shape the next game doesn't mean you get an excuse to attack people for wanting different things. This type of behavior is exactly why Sonic Team played it so safe for years and stopped trying new things for awhile despite the series needing a new direction(which we luckily somewhat got with Frontiers). The toxic side of the fan base need to take a step back, take a good look in the mirror, realize their mistakes, and try to be better. We are human, we have the ability to change for the better. Toxicity is never the answer. Attacking others over the most inoffensive opinions is never valid. Grow up, find your missing braincells, and develop as a person like most people do.(again, specifically aimed at the toxic side of the fan base that acts this way).
I love this comment so much. Some of these things said here I wish I could as bluntly as well but for some reason I feel I gotta hold my tongue somewhat as a creator lol
Being in this fandom for the past 6 years and hearing about a lot of the arguments in the sonic fandom has been exhausting, I joined in the fandom at the worst possible time during the release of Sonic Forces and a lot of the overly-defensive and harshly-critical stuff had really affected my outlook on a lot of things in the Sonic games side and brought in a very toxic mindset that effected me for a long time. Sometimes I would just doomscroll on the RU-vid comment section of Sonic reviews or hot takes for an unhealthy amount of time adding more fuel to the fire. It's really only when the 2020's came around when a lot of the negative things started slowing down and I got very into another fandom and a lot of my outlook has changed since then. Not only that fanprojects like Project 06 really helped me see a more positive outlook on Sonic gameplay and got me to try out more Sonic games I haven't played outside of the ones on Steam even if they didn't all stick the landing. By the time Frontiers' hype cycle came around and gone I felt more confident about my opinions and feelings around the Sonic series, to this day Frontiers is still my fav Sonic game of all time and while I still acknowledge a lot of it's flaws I still had a good time with it. The lesson I learned overtime was to stick with my experiences and opinions but also understand where I can improve and become better, especially since the Frontiers hype cycle died down and there's been a lot more debates of it lately. Been also lately trying to take frequent breaks from twitter to ease off a lot of the really bad arguments that go down there. I plan on leaving the Sonic fanbase for an uncertain amount of time to take a break from the things I already mentioned a lot in this comment lol. Going forward I'm still probably gonna play the next open zone Sonic Game whenever that comes out and maybe some other new sonic games that look interesting, but I'm not gonna let toxic fans dictate what I should feel on whatever comes next for the series. Thanks for reading this comment and have good day!!!
Buddy, I've been around since the Sega Saturn/Sega Dreamcast days of Sonic Adventure 1+2/2 Battle/Sonic Heroes, and let me tell you. I was never a sonic fan myself as for me, I wasn't really fans of franchises as I was more of a casual for franchises that, at the time in the 2000s, were still new, up into today. But if there's one franchise I'm a fan of, it's Back To The Future & The Bill & Ted series. Those two I can easily get behind because 1. Not many people these days have heard or even bothered to check out these franchise, and 2. They feature time traveling, one of the superpowers I would love to have if it ever existed to go back into the past or into the future. And at least those stories are much fun to enjoy and love compared to video game franchises. I'm not surprised the sonic franchise has become so disjointed that it's not even funny anymore. It's this reason why the Pokemon & Mario franchises are more popular than the Sega franchises themselves. Heck, even people in the Panzer Dragoon fanbase are waaayyyy more mature than the sonic franchise in its entirety.
Sonic has been around for over 30 years! The fanbase aren't fans of the same thing. Cartoons, comics and the various eras of the games have brought conflicting interests with each group of fans. The games don't need character development or strong narratives in my opinion, but the fans of shows and comics tend to criticise the lack of these things. The need for timelines and canon is another factor fans have projected onto the series when none was intended at conception. Then the games themselves have been such a mixed bag too, the boom series, rush, storybook, riders, rivals etc. These don't unify the fanbase, but create divides. The sonic fanbase will always be in conflict with itself because we are fans of different aspects rather than the whole.
I think Sega asking for advice is more likely just them being desperate for ideas. I mean I completely agree with your argument, I do think we should change our ways. The truth is, almost every fanbase you see has a toxic side to them. There's FNaF, FNF, Minecraft from what I'm seeing, MLP (I think...), Undertale has a toxic fanbase at some point. Whether if it has the most attention or not, there a toxic side.
I feel like the main difference here is that Sonic is probably the only franchise where the toxic attitude from the fans is actually being listened to by the makers. People call Sonic's "stupid" friends annoying and useless, so Sega sidelined them, flanderized their personalities so that they're almost unrecognisable, and gives them absolutely nothing worthwhile to do in the stories, and Sega ultimately thinks that this is an improvement because that's what they're always being told by overly critical critics as well as haters and detractors of this series. All this really does is alienate long time fans who never had a problem with these characters. It's the same with Sonic's damn eye colour. Bringing back Sonic's older design as an entirely separate character who exists in his own separate series of games isn't appeasing Classic fans; that's appeasing Modern haters! You know the ones. The ones who whine that Sonic Adventure "ruined" the series. They want to act like this "new classic" series just ignores every game from Sonic Adventure onwards. Again, this just alienates fans who don't give a monkeys about this stuff! People wanted to see Shadow in Superstars, but he can't because he doesn't have a Classic design. Basically "he can't be in this game cos he don't have black eyes!" Isn't that so bizarre? Isn't that so petty? And if they had just used the character's newer designs then there wouldn't be this problem in the first place. A franchise should never be this driven by negativity!
As fans the best we can do is give constructive criticism, continue with fan projects, and take steps towards making ourselves come off as inviting. Unfortunately there's so many bad actors that we're considered infamous. It makes it that much harder to change that impression. The deepthroating and gatekeeping is egregious too
1. Being an autistic Sonic fan shouldn't be bad 2. Sonic listing to fans isn't a bad thing, though them figuring out their newish cannon would be a good thing, it can be equal to have fan stuff but also do things helps with the franchise
It's the fact they try to please the fanbase as a whole. It's how you get Sonic Forces. A game that's boring and overly easy to play, even on hard mode, and attempted to replicate the style of story writing the games released between '98 and '07 had but failed so badly at it. They tried to please Adventure fans with a "serious story" with spliced in cheesy friendship lines probably for fans of Heroes. They reused the boost formula for fans of Generations, Unleashed, and Colors but missed what made the level design in those games actually good. They brought back classic Sonic for Classic fans but butchered his controls. They added the avatar for fans who make OCs. That's so many different aspects of the Fandom they tried to please but they failed at all of them except maybe the avatar. (They also had Wispons for fans of the Wisps but honestly those, like the avatar themself, wasn't bad).
@@TheTeknicalRonan It's almost like they made it intentionally crappy, to also appeal to Sonic haters, detractors and overly critical critics who love crapping all over the Sonic series with their RU-vid videos about how "Sonic was never good" or how they themselves are so superior to all those "weirdo Sonic fans!" Admittedly, that's a bit of a stretch, but it honestly wouldn't surprise me if the people at Sega knew that there was a market there. "People will buy our games regardless of the actual quality just so they can criticise it and make views on their RU-vid channels! But we'll still make money so it really doesn't matter!"
Maybe a hot take, but I still think that toxic negativity is a lot more hurtful to the Sonic series than toxic positivity. I mean, yes, toxic positivity is annoying, but I honestly don't think that it's affecting the series as much as people are always claiming. Toxic negativity on the other hand; I mean you can see how much that's affecting the series. Like when Sonic 4 was announced, and people absolutely lost their minds and conplained with crap like "urgh, that's the wrong Sonic! Ugly, lanky green eyed freak who talks too much! That's not MY Sonic! Where's MY Classic Sonic? Bring back MY Sonic or I'm never playing another Sonic game ever again! REEEEEEE!" These whiners were treating these two slightly different character designs as two separate entities. And like that, in the very next game, Sega brings back the older design as an entirely separate entity. That's honestly way too convenient to be a coincidence.
Well, Sonic is never really the same, he'll be more similar to the entries he's closer to, but the branding, tone, style, lore, things like these have widely changed throughout Sonic's history When you get the title drop "Sonic 4" and it doesn't feel like a proper sequel to "Sonic 3" a lot of people will feel like "Is this really the sequel I was promised?" While I agree that the current interpretation of the Classic/Modern split sucks, that doesn't mean that a split of some sorts is inherently a bad idea. But if it just ends up being a style change, the "classic" style is still very well defined and differenciated from 21st century interpretations of Sonic, and people can understandably feel attached to it. Never an excuse for toxicity though
I used to be one to complain about the "different entities" thing, but I believe that context is important when it's brought up (though, I could be the one missing the context here), and it shouldn't be like a card we can draw every time someone complains about a particular game's interpretation of Sonic.
@@JM57-99 The main issue that I personally have with having two separate Sonics and two separate series is that it's almost like people are saying "ok, Classic Sonic can have all the good stuff that is well received and praised to high heaven, while Modern Sonic can have all of the stuff that's divisive and causes arguments amongst the fan base!" That hardly seems fair. There's also this weird attitude that people have where they're saying things like "Yeah, Classic Sonic is sooooooo much betterer than that crappy Modern Sonic! Classic Sonic is the Sonic that I grew up with! He's the Sonic that I remember! All cute and cuddly and not trying waaaaaay too hard to be all cool and confident like Modern Sonic, who's always spouting lame catchphrases and being annoying!" I'm always confused by statements like this, because I grew up with the Classic games and that's not how I remember Sonic at all! He was always cool and confident! As for the catchphrases thing, I've seen people criticise how Sonic is portrayed in the more recent games saying "oh my Sonic would never say cringey things like that", and yet they'll go on to brag about how amazing "their" Sonic was back in "the good ol' days" and I swear that they'll point to the SATAM series! The same series where Sonic calls Robotnik "Ro-Butt-nik!" It's just all very hypocritical to me!
@@bowmaj8666 Fair. Truth is that in a series like Sonic it's easy to have an idea or interpretation of the world you can hold on to. Even in the 90s Sonic was so many things at the same time, and from Sonic Adventure onward he never stopped changing. Who knows? Maybe the real problem with "Classic Sonic" is that the term is too vague to begin with... maybe even more so than "Modern"!
@@JM57-99 Exactly. It's just kind of frustrating when people say "Sonic can't be this" or "Sonic can't have that!" Then all the while praising the stuff that they like that may still have those things that they're criticising. For example, people love to point to the Adventure games and say "Urgh, those games have Sonic running around a realistic city! There were no realistic cities in the old games!" Yet in the very first game in the series; look in the background of Spring Yard and Star Light Zones. They look like realistic cities to me! People like to complain "Humans don't belong in Sonic games!" What are they talking about? Dr. Eggman, the main antagonist of the entire series IS a human! People go on these rants about how humans ruin the narrative of the Sonic series, saying things like "it just makes no sense that there's these anthropomorphic animals walking around in a world of humans without some kind of explanation!" Yet, they're totally ok with Eggman being the only human in a world of anthropomorphic animals without any explanation. And when you try to explain that the series was always meant to be a world where the two coexist, they just can't handle it, and point to all of their favourite Sonic cartoons or comics as a way to dispute that, and refuse to accept that they aren't canon to the games. I swear, years ago I was talking to someone online who not only straight up refused to believe that Robotnik and Eggman are the same person, he was also convinced that "Robotnik" wasn't a human, based on something that happened in an old comic. I tried in vain to explain to them that the comics weren't canon to the games, but they wouldn't listen, and got angry at me for not knowing these "obvious facts" about the Sonic series, and how games like Sonic Adventure are terrible for not carrying on those comic's storylines. It just blows my mind.
The big problem with simply saying "Sega shouldn't listen to the fans" is that they haven't had a good concept that wasn't influenced by fan input since the Sonic Adventure series ended (Boost formula? Fans said Sonic was too slow. Classic Sonic? People still think those were the best games. Frontiers? Open-world was in demand since before Forces). In fact, when they don't get fan input, they usually just end up making some weirdly distorted copy of another trending game, like Unleashed's GoW-type gameplay or Lost World's weird Mario Galaxy-influenced level layouts. And then there's Sonic Boom: Rise of Lyric, which I'm pretty certainly absolutely zero people asked for except Sega themselves. Basically, there is no proof that present-day Sega can make a good Sonic game without fan input.
I've always said that there's a difference between Sega listening to fair and constructive criticisms, and them listening to toxic whiners complaining about superfluous things like Sonic's design, his "stupid friends" or that he shouldn't talk!
@@kao7143 Actually READ my post before you disagree. I already said it; neither of those did Sega conjure purely in their own heads. The idea that Frontiers is somehow some unexpected creative vision of a Sonic Team mastermind, made in a bubble and free from fan input, is laughable when there's open-world Sonic fangames that predate the leaks of the game's existence AND Nintendo released 3 open-world games of their own before Frontiers. Boost era was a direct response to the feedback from Sonic 06. Nearly every major gameplay change was influenced by some complaint about the gameplay style of the Adventure games. Sonic's too slow? Boost button. Sonic bugs out on a loop? Boost button. Homing attack fails too much at critical moments? Boost button. Sonic runs into enemies too much? Boost button. Too many side characters? None of them are playable now since it wouldn't make sense for them to have a boost button. Got stuck on Mad Space for half an hour? Sonic's turning and skidding is wonky? Now every level is a straight, narrow path so you can boost button through, you never need to use full 3d movement or explore a level in a way where you can get lost. See what I mean? Think about it; can you imagine the theoretical world where Boost era came around without any Adventure era? Even if it in theory is possible, it'd probably not have been received nearly as well, because going directly from Classic to Boost is a more jarring gameplay difference, AND the concepts would not be ironed out by addressing complaints about Adventure-era gameplay.
So, I'd call myself a casual Sonic fan. I grew up with the AoStH reruns on Toon Disney, I like the games but the last Sonic games I played completely I think was the PC port of Sonic Generations, Transformed, and then I played a bit of Sonic Mania I stopped, not out of disinterest but because I got a Mac and put up my PC which is in need of parts. I'm in my 30s now and still enjoy a lot of Sonic cartoons, new ones included, I need to watch that Sonic Prime is it called? I love the fanart and games but don't really engage with the fandom for reasons I want to highlight. Anyways, I wanted to say that I respectfully disagree with the source of the Sonic fandom's negative reputation. I have no interest in dismissing other Sonic fan's negative experiences and I will take your word for it about the weird and toxic fans, just because I haven't dealt with it, doesn't mean the problem doesn't exist. What I will say however a lot of Sonic fan hate, does seem to come from furry hate and is totally from outside the fandom. Sonic is at the very least furry adjacent and the furry community itself has a long history of accepting marginalized groups, including the neurodivergent (likely source of the autism stereotype) and qu33r folks (I just want to make sure RU-vid doesn't eat my comment). And the Sonic games and tv shows have pretty strong environmentalist and liberation themes, so it wouldn't surprise me if that element attracts a lot of broadly progressive people who are often hated on by the same people who hate furries. And then, the online Sonic fandom does seem to skew really young, and there's a lot of mean people who seemingly enjoy mocking kids' artwork and passions for no reason. Then for the reason why I don't engage with most fandoms; the poor media literacy and horrible online manners! Like people will listen to horrible reads of stories in games or movies, which come to think about Sonic Team/Sega then play into, which is how we get "Knuckles is a sitcom dum dum" or "Shadow is just an edgy Hot Topic customer" as canon so on thinking about it, I think I do agree that Sega/Sonic Team shouldn't listen to Internet discourse nearly as much. And the manners issue is even worse, regardless of fandom. Like I have to ask anyone who is under the age of 20, did schools even attempt to teach etiquette online? Back in the late 90s I was told about not using my real name online and stuff like that but I don't remember much about how to be nice, but you'd think with Internet communication at an all time high now, that'd be a major focus regardless of age. All the same, regardless of generation or background, some people have no respect for others nor a grasp of understanding how words can hurt. Death threats, swatting, doxxing, leaking private photos, etc it's an issue all over the Internet. Also, just as a tl;dr and clarifying what I'm saying; I think the Sonic fandom is flawed as shown with internal arguments but I don't think it plays as much of a role in the fandom's reputation. What I think is the source is from outside the fandom, the type of person who would bully you for your race or disability or passions, the type of person who cherrypicks fanart of a fandom to push a narrative of mentally unstable weirdos unlike themselves who is totally normal, the type of person who only understands Sonic and it's media in a superficial way yet wants to pretend be an expert whose opinion is the only one that matters, the type of person who has no regard or respect for anyone or anything with hate in their heart. You know... a bully. Society should stop listening to bullies.
Very profound, I appreciate your input. I didn't exactly bring up furry hate or anything of the sort because I wanted to fixate on things I believe the fanbase itself can control. But I am more than aware of ppl who've grown aggresively tired of being unfairly treated dur to their interests. As the saying goes though, two wrongs don't make a right.
@@MiguelMustNerdIn that case, the Sonic fandom can totally control their manners. Fans should adopt a mindset of "Be kind with everyone, because you don't know what another person is going through". It would be annoying if I came to the Sonic fandom for relief from something difficult it could be something as simple as writer's block to something much worse like depression/grief and I gotta deal with someone beefing with me for having the "wrong opinion". I don't know, maybe there should be a Sonic Sez meme that gets spammed whenever someone is being mean on the Internet, lol. Sonic telling you to get offline, touch grass, and stop the hostile nonsense.
Yeah I agree while the fan base have awesome talent. The amount of toxicity is unacceptable. When fans were complaining to the Kish that update 3 was not as expected, I was very upset. Is outrageous that even people working for free update to see what they can improve lead to further problems to the base. Even the game is good there’s going to be people saying “nah we need more” as in never satisfy with certain content. Hopefully it can turn down
"The Kish" aye? Premydaremy watcher? Respect. But yeah that all blows, free updates and all and some still complain, not gonna say the updates are without faults that shouldn't be critiqued but I don't think the Kish was getting a lot of fair criticism, just a bunch of whiney brats who wanted more just for the hell of it.
It all started with "Sonic Adventure". But before that, it started with Sega and Sonic Team being unlucky during the Saturn era. "Sonic X-treme" was supposed to be the proper 3D "Sonic" game, but problems arose behind the scenes. When that game got canceled due to development problems, things changed...mostly for the worst, starting with the shift to 3D during the Dreamcast era. That's where the cycle truly started. Since then, I've stuck to the mainline 2D pixel games up to "Sonic Mania (Plus)". That's what I know of the best and where I can get the highest quality out of the blue blur. Peak "Sonic" games are "Sonic 3 & Knuckles" and "Sonic Mania (Plus)". Yes, there's "Sonic Generations" (and the remaster of that game) on its supposed high quality, but that's irrelevant because it's part of the modern era and where it split the fans in the middle...again due to the presence of Neo Classic Sonic (and Neo Classic Tails). As a former OG "Sonic" fan, I can only watch helplessly. "Sonic Frontiers" didn't really do anything, other than to change the characters that were mostly affected by "Sonic Forces". "Sonic Superstars" didn't really do anything either, other than to disappoint (former) longtime classic hardcore fans even more ("Sonic Origins (Plus*)" overall already disappointed longtime classic hardcore fans). I don't even bother hoping for the best anymore, as it seems completely pointless.
I think the real issue here is that if people go all over the internet saying things like "Sonic Bad! How can anyone like this crap! You're all wrong for liking it! I'm so much betterer than you weirdos cos I'd never like a stupid series like this!" Well of course they're going to annoy people who like it. It's even worse when people think that there's a reason why this series is bad, but provide absolutely no constructive feedback on how to improve it. It's always just "This sucks, so get rid of it!" And when even the creators of this series listens to this crap over actually constructive criticisms from people who like the series, then of course that's going to upset long time fans.
Toxic Sonic fans were actually the reason I hate this franchise so much. I said, that Sonic Boom: Rise of Lyric did not look like a good game, and I was immediately attacked by one of them.
Just like most toxic Dragon Ball Z fans, there’s also a lot of toxic Sonic fans who are allergic to hearing different opinions, thinking they’re better than everyone else.
The 2010’s really brought out all the fake Sonic fans out the woodwork. They started switching up on the Adventure games, and bashing them, all because GameCunts and PedoJared wanted to troll and suck at the games on purpose. But now that we’re starting to see somewhat of an Adventure Era resurgence (even more so with the possibility of those 2 games getting remade), now all of a sudden they love said games again.
i really just wish people didnt only see the fanbase as toxic positivity because that always reads to me like a bias against positive people just because they're positive, it's really just toxicity with no actual side to it, positive people can be chill and not harass others then whenever you tell someone "hey toxic negativity exists!" they're like "well i dont see it as much" so?? that very much still exists man😭 i have seen people harassed for liking prime, frontiers, origins etc its a two way street, but i guess it's easier for them to pick apart the side known as positivity not referring to you of course
I both love and hate the sonic community because you've got normal fans that have healthy discussions, compliment each other, and are a good representation of a fanbase Then you got the fans who send death threats because someone said they enjoy the 2010's era of storytelling or they think the adventure games are overrated, there is a youtuber known as premydaremy and people hate him for having a critical opinion on a sonic game or using AI art for thumbnails. The toxicity needs to STOP.
Me after getting sick of people talking debates on if Mario is better than Sonic or Sonic is better than Mario. And how many sonic fans keep talking about a characters quils and shoes. Seriously though there’s a good side and bad side on any fandom. And like you’ve said were known for our toxicity it’s very true especially coming from a Fan not only for sonic Mario and Star Fox it’s very sickening on how it’s constantly happening.
The last few months have been incredibly exhausting. There was a huge war between people who seemingly just hated japanese Sonic writing and those that blindly praised it and rejected everything from the west. And those that lost were those who didn't even participate, people standing in a healthy middle ground just got blasted from both sides. Because for some reason it is a sin to say that the original game scripts(back then, it was almost exclusively in japanese) should reasonably be the canon basis, but that does not make everything from its language automatically good or content written in other languages bad and we should look into the individual quality more. Which is so common sensical with literally any other IP that it should be a cold take, but it is somehow the hottest one under the sun. Man, oh man. What a fanbase. The good thing about it is that messes like this make minor bouts of toxicity and elitism in other fanbases seem like first world problems by comparison, definitly helps me stay determined and productive while building towards projects that try to be a helpful force for other communities.
The thing about the sonic fan base is that it escalates from child friendly and cute to dark and violent so it’s very diverse which basically means your going to get people that are friendly your going to get people that are toxic and your also going to get people that are in between and the fact that a lot of us are chronically online and are all very different in the type of content we consume that we end up spread out across the internet and you’ll see sonic fans converge in the weirdest places sometimes and because of the age range of sonic fans people end up with extremely different opinions about things and yet when something bad or negative involving sonic happens the fan base comes together to change things for the better (sonic movie) and that’s something that most fan bases can’t do at times even though yes the toxic fans are a blight on the fan base the good and passionate fans can actually be reasonable with their opinions I also understand that feeling of being judged for being a fan of something but honestly it’s a good way to tell what kind of person someone is so if someone says omg your sonic fan get away from me that person is probably not an understanding person to an extent and will lump you in with people that you have nothing in common with also using the game awards as an example people try to hate on us for just being ourselves sometimes and they will resort to anything to try and stop us from getting what we want no matter how illogical their reasoning is I honestly could go on and on but I’ll stop before I type out an entire book 😂
I'm actually really glad that you talked about how Sega is also one of the reasons that Sonic fans are like this, it shows how you're smart and don't direct all of the blame onto one party!
Thanks! I prefer being open to acknowledging where all sides of a problem are at fault personally. Because more often than not, no one is ever completely exampt from blame when there is a conflict.
Sonic fans remind me of toddlers, not in an insulting way. What i mean is sonic fans cant choose and agree on things wisely and properly like the way little kids do.
one side of the sonic fan side that i been seeing.. a lot is the Vs. and power scalers, "sonic is stronger than blank. (name legit anyone)" "sonic is 29th dimensional god in power." as a huge dragon ball fan way longer than sonic fan. i used to love the pixel art vs. fight animations, a lot, there all amazing, but after a 50th "sonic vs goku" ones where its just gets so tiring to see the huge negative outcome of a lot of those animations, they come out as some greatly disrespectful towards others not just dragon ball, but most other action base anime/series, whatever. and its so tiring. so exhausting to see sonic win most times. sonic gets this view of this untouchable god of power. i got a lot to say about that topic, as yeah it is a more smaller side of the fanbase, but it is still apart of the sonic fan base. and its a side that for me, is bleeding the enjoyment of spirt/pixel art vs. animations heavly for me.
I'm glad I'm not part of that side of the fandom, like seriously, these people should be stripped of the title of "fan" because they aren't. I loved Sonic ever since I was like 3, played Sonic 2 on the Mega Drive (played the first game as well haha) and I enjoyed his games ever since, sure, there have been a few bad ones, but I never gave up, and I never lashed out on people not enjoying a sonic game I enjoyed
I think the positive toxicity comes from years of people telling us that Sonic is bad and was never good. For a while, you couldn't make any comment about how you like Sonic without someone replying that Sonic is bad. So as a result a bunch of fans got overly defensive and started hating any amount of criticism about Sonic. Because they got so tired of people telling them that what they liked wasn't good. I know I was in this boat for a while when I was a new Sonic fan.
Now I classify myself a an average sonic enjoyer. I like sonic I really do but the fandom makes me conflicted On one hand they’re are some of the most passionate and talented people I’ve seen creating masterpieces like sonic p06 and sonic freeriders playable without a Kinect which were legendary or using their voice the make changes for the better like in the sonic movie / Sonic frontiers But a lot of people (not all) like to act hostile towards others which isn’t uncommon for this and many other franchises but in particular it’s about little things like eye color fur length or bashing others opinions for liking a game (Not to mention death threats and the nsfw fanart and game awards debacle Not going down that route because we’d be here for decades ) I still like sonic don’t get me wrong but every new game announcement seems like a new day of reckoning to see whether this is going to be a good game like gen’s unleashed or the adventure series Or fall into the pits of disaster like forces colors ultimate and sad to say Sonic 06 Sorry this was a lot the frontiers release cycle kinda gave me ptsd
I feel like this unhealthy since of ownership from the Sonic fanbase got worse all because of the whole thing that happened with the Sonic movie design. There where some fans that took it way too far and were saying horrible things to the people making the movie. And because they fixed it, those Sonic fans feel that all those harassment's were justified and that they have control of the brand. And they feel like they have to make sure the "right" feedback is put out there. It's a similar situation that happened back in 2018, when some Sam Reimi Spiderman fans were bullying the developers of Spiderman ps4 because of how much they wanted there stupid Reimi suit in the game. There even were some content creators like "The Amazing Lucas" encouraging toxicity towards the developers to in force them to add it in the game. And when it eventually was added to the game, they felt like they did something good for harassing them. Game developers should just make the games they want to make and should only listen to small fan feedback because it only encourages toxicity and a severely unhealthy since of ownership.
I can't blame the fan base for being so divided, after all, there are at least 3 different Sonics and a bunch of different storytelling and gameplay styles. Everyone is bound to get attached to their version of Sonic and dislike a different version of Sonic.
According to some veteran sonic fans they were even split back then As it was American sonic media fans vs the people who knew about the og sonic of Japan They were basically dubbed as SEGA sonic fans And then you also had the Archie comic fans and in the uk you had the fleetway sonic the comic fans And then when sonic adventure rolled around the sonic the hedgehog and his friends redesign split them further as there were people who liked the old SEGA sonic design compared to adventure sonic American media sonic fans didn’t like that sonic was with humans while SEGA sonic fans were more open to this as they followed the original sonic from Japan (thanks to sonic JAM) So sonic fans were always split it’s just now the divide has grown bigger and the hole turned into a sink hole of sonic media’s and their fans vs the other sonic fans Nower days you get classic sonic fans vs adventure era/ dark age fans not just gameplay but also design And both of them hate the current modern sonic
Not going to lie channel Pup has that same convo as well so he'd like your opinion right away I'm sure👍 as for me I'm just a level-headed fan as far as extreme sonic fans are concerned I have no speed shoes👟 in this marathon so I'll keep it brief constructive criticism is king for any dev use it well but also be fair & keep opinions just that Opinions, no need to spread chaos on if sonic's legs are better long or close to classic. my two cents.
The level of toxicity I’ve seen in my experience is from after 06 released, I remember getting absolutely mobbed in forums when Unleashed came out cause it was my favorite game, it’s definitely gotten better in recent years but I honestly think most of the toxicity comes from Adventure series fans, I don’t think I’ve ever met an SA or SA2 fan praise any game that wasn’t either of those. They in my experience do the most complaining and will hunt you down if you say you don’t like SA2, and I think personally for me it’s created this stigma and maybe that’s why I don’t like SA2 because I’ve always said I didn’t like adventure fans because of just how annoying and vocal they are, they really don’t want anything from SEGA or anyone if it isn’t SA3… but that’s just me
Ngl, dude... I'm not sure if this fandom ever had peace to my memory. Like, I been seeing sonic fans beefing online since the 2000s. If it wasnt different factions fighting over character design details or preferred continuities between shows and comics, it was shippers at war, or classic purists hating anything after 1998, or outright trolls just wanting to stur shit for the lols. Head ass game reviewers didnt help, many just plain hating sonic just because its trendy, or were nintendo fanboys with a axe to grind, or some just being outright racist towards japanese game devs (but thats another can of worms for the gaming industry in general). It honestly feels like a lot of factors come into play when it comes to vitriol in the fandom. From how the IP is handled by sega over the years(dont get me started, there's a list), to general internet toxicity in the political space infecting everything (whew lad, don't even wanna touch that sometimes). Dont get me wrong, many just want the series to do well, but man there is so many differing ways on how to do that now I basically gave up on trying to hear out everyone out, too many with a "my way or the highway" mentality, just aint worth the stress anymore. Its kinda ironic considering how much the series seems to show how different perspectives and ideas can help in many cases. Heck, if I had a dollar for every time someone shot down an idea I had to improve the series in some way because of very niche specific wants, or not wanting anything outside of a very specific style of gameplay(even when other series did the idea better), or never wanting to give an gameplay element that was done poorly another shot so it doesnt suck next time... I could go on but needless to say I'd have bands of cash to finish the saying. But yeah, sonic fandom be... A mess. Think Mike Tyson had a point when he said people whos online all the time don't know what it's like to talk with no respect toward someone who could punch them in the face. No mutual respect out here, man. Like, I have my own aspects of the series I dont like (wisps in anything after 2011), but at least I'm willing to hear others out on it and think of improvements instead of just wanting things cut out forever because I dont like it.
Also I have no idea how the autism thing started, apparently theres a lot of sonic fans that actually are autistic, but how it got generalized to sonic fans in general being autistic I have no idea. There does seem to be a common thread between brightly colorful cartoon characters with a easy to draw art style meant to appeal to kids (sonic, MLP, fnaf, etc.)attracting a lot of unhinged people throughout the past decade and a half, so make of that what you will? 乁( •_• )ㄏ
There are actually people out there who claim to be Sonic fans, but insist that only the very first game is any good and that everything after that just went downhill. These people truly think that the mere inclusion of Tails "ruined the entire series!" Yeah, with crap like that going on, this fan base was always doomed!
This was an extensive one! I dig it! I always be sure to read these despite their length because I find value in someone having a lot to say on a subject, thank you for the input! But the idea that there has never been an age of general peace for this fanbase is a bumming one fr.
If the game is fun I like it if the game is not fun I don't enjoy it I do not interact with other sonic fans because people treat it like it's life or death like chill it's a fictional hedgehog
Wasn't there a time where unleashed fans attacked the haters And those who hate a certain game and just go and say "SkIlL iSsUe" And I may be autistic but the fans are giving autism a bad name
My issue with the Sonic fandom is how they focus WAY too much on Sonic's characterization. Like even if a Sonic game is bad, it'll still be viewed as a masterpiece just because its "Ambitious" or had a decent story. Gameplay quality be damned.
It's okay if you like the story or characterization of games like 06 and Black Knight or whatever but if you don't like the game primarily for the qualities of it being a GAME then stop saying it's a great game.
@@MiguelMustNerd Exactly. Like "Sonic Colors" and "Sonic Generations" are solid entries that get unfairly clowned on simply because they weren't over compensatingly edgy. Or they love to clown on "Sonic Superstars" purely because its using Classic Sonic's asthetic, even though the game itself is actually pretty good. That right there should give a pretty good idea of just how low the standards are in the Sonic fandom.
I think that the issue is how so many people think that a Sonic game always has to be either one or the other; good gameplay or good storytelling. To them, there's just no room for both. Many fans, myself included, love the stories of the Adventure games, and would love to see this level of storytelling with improved gameplay. However, we apparently aren't allowed that because "there's nothing good about those games! Sonic games aren't about story! It should all be about the gameplay!" Give me a break!
Sonic looks better with any colour arms, eyes, fur, shoes, you name it. You can prefer one to the other, but you need to stop whining when someone doesn't agree. Hotdog shoes are equally as good as the pointy ones, Sonic has blue arms like in Sonic Boom looks great even though I prefer tan. And his eye/fur colour should really be the least of your worries. As long as Sonic remains a blue hedgehog, theres no need for a panic attack.
i think the reason why sonic has the autism label is because as a person who is on the spectrum you see sonic as this character who has confidence and can talk to others. Also autistic people like cartoony things too. Another reason why it has that stereotype is the fact that chris chan exists
You know the fanbase has its issues when these petty arguments have lingered as far back as when the first Sonic Adventure game was being released, people complained about Sonics eye being green and took it way too personally. And then there are individuals like Chirs-Chan who are loosely associated with the fanbase and have severely damaged it on a wider scale thanks to their actions, and their creation of Sonichu, An OC so infamous I'm pretty sure it singlehandedly made everyone else on the outside view the entire fanbase as a complete laughing stock.
To be honest, I truly don't remember anyone complaining about Sonic having green eyes in Sonic Adventure. I'd wager that most people didn't even notice. Heck, even characters like Eggman and Amy who got even more noticeable design changes, no one seemed to care! It was when Sonic 4 was first announced that a bunch of fans just assumed that Sega were bringing Sonic's older black eyed design back, and then threw the mother of all hissy fits when it didn't happen. That's when these fans (very unfairly, in my opinion) started to associate everything good about the Sonic series on the older design, and just slapped everything that they hated onto the green eyed design! And the people at Sega, with money signs in their eyes, saw a market for this type of whining and have pretty much been milking it ever since!
Our reputation has been brought down from the extremely weird fans that make what I refuse to call fan art, when they are being shipped in some incredibly creepy drawings. Aswell as this, because sega isn’t the best company in the world, poor decisions made that aren’t what the fans want or what a louder minority want, that fans of other series don’t understand. When we say something about sonics design or voice we get shot down by a million people over seemingly nothing, take Chaomix who made one tweet about how he prefers sonics hot dog like shoes from the adventure games rather than his metallic looking shoes and about a million people were like, “omg sonic fans all nitpick way too much, but when mario fans now have a new voice actor for mario they are all complaining about it even though before then a lot of them jabbed at us for the same thing, if they swapped Mario’s dungarees with trousers, or changed the design of whatever their favourite character was to something that looks wrong they’d probably complain but when they gave sonic blue arms we weren’t allowed to complain, just because they have a biased against sonic just because a few of his games were flops. My friends at school they think all sonic games are bad except the 2d games, even though he only reason they think the 2d games are good is because I installed sonic 3 air on my school iPad, using the web version, and that was the only platformer they could get so I installed it for them so that’s how most of them found out the 2d sonic games weren’t bad but they still don’t even give the 3d sonic games a chance, if I tell them this is a good one, they say, no sonic games are bad, so it’s not a good game, and that really frustrates me because they just have this bias against all sonic games, and I think that’s what fuels most toxic sonic fans, they are frustrated that nobody even gives sonic a chance, obviously I don’t death threaten my friends, or anyone, but I try to defend sonic games when someone is unfair, but obviously, no one listens, because sonic fans.
It's an unfortunate situation all around, but it won't get better by us fans getting bitter about it all and treating others unfairly(not saying you do that btw)
@@MiguelMustNerd yeah, negative things stick with people more than positives, and since there are a lot of negatives in sonic, no matter the amount of positives, the history of bad will be all what they think of us
In fairness, most can! It's just that there's a whole bunch of fans who completely disagree. So whenever a group of fans moan about something, and Sega listens and changes it, it then alienates the fans who liked it.
Idk about the “It’s Sonic Team’s fault, they give the fans too much power” claim. They’ve really started really listening to the fans pretty recently, but as others have said, The Sonic fandom has always been toxic. At this point I think there isn’t anyway to fix the Sonic fandom, and they have no one to blame but themselves.
And while on that I think it’s understandable why Sonic fans want to control the direction of the series, especially adventure fans. They grew up on games that played with the adventure formula, they loved it, but that got thrown out in a blink of an eye in favor of the boost formula. While I’m personally glad that happened, those fans want their Sonic back (even though that nowadays there alternatives that play similarly). It doesn’t even end there, because boost fans are also at a looming threat of going through the same thing the adventure fans went through.
