DEBATE: Dan Barker vs. Mike Licona (Did Jesus rise from the dead? - 2003) 

After four strong cans of lager mixed with cider, I have seen and met with Jesus! Amen!

Why is is so hard for Christians to believe that ancient people could make up stories?

A guy rose from the dead because someone said they did. If thats the case then I superman flew to the moon because a book said I did.

If Jesus rose from the dead then he wasn't dead. Death is supposed to be terminal. This was more like a bad weekend.

Which is more probable? Jesus rose from the dead (along with -- if you've read Matthew -- hordes of long dead Jewish saints); or subsequent followers of his original followers, inspired by reports of "visions" of Jesus after his death, "stretched" the Jesus story a bit to include "magical happenings" regarding him? The answer is obvious.

Mike, you are just like all of the other apologists, you get an A for mental gymnastics but an F for logic and reason. A quote from Thomas Paine will help, Is it more probable that nature should go out of her course, or that a man should tell a lie? We have never seen, in our time, nature go out of her course; but we have good reason to believe that millions of lies have been told in the same time; it is therefore, at least millions to one, that the reporter of a miracle tells a lie.

So according to Dan, if Jesus appears to us as a spirit, we shouldn't believe it, but if he appears in bodily form, then that's proof he did rise from the dead? As an atheist, how does someone having a spiritual visit from Jesus any less convincing of the supernatural than in him appearing bodily?

Wow, if the verbal gymnastics of Licona could be transferred into a physical performance, Simone Biles would be shamed.

the basis for the resurrection is that it is an act of god, but god’s existence is NOT a fact is an assumption, that’s one of the problems with jesus resurrection

My fellow Christians say that Jesus set them free... My higher power set me free when I studied our " inerrant Holy word of God". Deception upon deception. Their string of lies convinced me that the story was a fabrication. Truth really does bring freedom.

Over the last year, reading the Bible more thoroughly and listening to these apologists like Mike Have led to me becoming an atheist. I’m grateful for them

There's a guy in Australia who thinks he's Jesus. One of his followers was crying, because he says he was there watching his crucifiction. Should we believe him?

I despair at people believing this stuff with no sufficient evidence.

Mike Licona got owned by Dan Barker.

"I heard them talking but I couldn't hear what they were saying." That is not a contradiction. In no way could that be taken for a contradiction. I often hear people talking but can't hear what they're saying. Of course really it should be can't tell what they're saying, but it's a slightly incorrect use of language that's nevertheless universally understood. Now if you have a word that can mean hear and understand, understand as in appreciate the meaning of words or understand a language, then using that word twice to mean different things in the same passage would be rather foolish. Surely you would say they heard the voice, and later they understood not the words or something similar. In the example you give, everyone would understand the different meaning of 'hear' because of the context. The power was out, the microphones weren't working. You could hear the sound of the voices but they were too faint for you to make out the words. As I say if you were writing an account of a mysterious voice and said they heard the voice, and later they did not hear the voice, but actually meant they did not understand the words, that would be very sloppy. Religious writing of course is sloppy. It's ambiguous. The exact meaning of almost every passage in every holy book ever written has been debated ad infinitum. It's one of the reasons I don't believe. An all powerful god would write a book that everyone everywhere could understand without having to read a ton of other books first.

Gotta love the vaporwave music at the beginning!

1:51:00 Inspiring Philosophy has explained where these ideas came from circa the 1800s by a writer named Alexander Hislop including attempts to correlate things like bunnies, eggs, Easter, and other traditional things with pagan usage. The reality is it's a weak association fallacy. Ex. Hard boiled eggs on Easter were due to not wanting a valuable food, like eggs, to spoil during Lent fasting and they were preserved better through hard boiling. Decorating them was a tradition started by a long who was being kind.

1:18:00 in 2020 a book was released about JFK written by a person born in 1963 about JFK 's political life before his presidency

Greek philosophers would wear white robes. Togas. Etc. the gospels clothe the men in white robes lol. A writer of gospels 2000 years ago would have no idea of how to write angels wearing fabric we have now in the 21st century. These are writers using only data they have at their scholarship of the day. But a real omniscient god would know all past and present

This guy keeps referring to Paul as an eye witness and that just isn't correct at all. Paul only claims to have revelations about Jesus.

Why are these guys referencing the opinions of others. Can they not read comprehensively and form their own opinions. It sounds like they are trying to make argument from authority which is a known fallacy.

When Dan Barker start speaking was the beginning of the end for Licons 😏

The man at the end made a good point. Jesus wasn't even crucified. He wasn't on the cross even a day or a matter of hours if the story was real. He was up there and poked with a spear and then thrown in a cave.

I don't understand why people don't understand that it doesn't follow that a person is the son of a God if they rise from the dead. Even if these stories were true, which they obviously are not, it wouldn't make Jesus the son of a God. It would much more likely mean he probably wasn't actually dead in the first place. Since there isn't any contemporary evidence that Jesus existed, it's only justified to ignore the the stories about him

It's difficult to get a scholar to understand something when his salary depends on his not understanding it.~ Upton Sinclair

This mike Licona is so convinced his Christianity is the truth even though it makes no sense

If they believed Jesus arose spiritually then when He appeared why did, they watch Him eat food? Here is the thing.... Jesus Christ is such a wonderful friend and He understood many would not believe and spoke of this much.... People that have never heard of Him will be granted EXTRA mercy.... People that do not want Him in their lives will get their wishes granted. People that have heard how He suffered for them and have been touched by His tremendous sacrifice will give Him their lives and trust Him no other... I would NEVER trust ANYONE more than Jesus Christ EVER!!!! I would NEVER follow ANYONE but Jesus Christ! EVER! Why? That is so easy to me..... because they were not beat into a bloody mess hanging on a cross out in the hot sun baking with flies in their wounds and spit all over their face in total agony.... Just.... To be my friend..... I love you JESUS! you are the BEST!!!! " I do not call you my servants, I call you my friends" so said Jesus in the bible.... God called us His FRIENDS!!!!

Is it me.... Or does it seem these self appointed Christian zealots are "seathing" with explosive hate and anger under that fragile mask of love and compassion?

It’s EMBARRASSING how AWFUL the sound for 99.99999999% of these debates are

It must be so frustrating for apologists to try to prove and defend ancient legends written 2000 years ago. Bet they sometimes think: „Damn god could just show himself and shut the atheists up for good“

"Yeah, but the book says...." Get a different book

Dan Barker always destroys these apologists

So in this biased format the christian gets the best Opening spot? Going First. and Closing spot?:Going Last.

The whole topic is futile anyway, the question should be " did jesus even exit?"

Not sufficient evidence. Saved you 2.5 hrs.

Sir i think you just waste ur time to try explaning about jesus.but he did not rise from the death

Best theist debater I've seen yet. Still didn't win the argument, but darn it he did a good job, expect for one thing. This quoting of scholars and voicing their opinions as if somehow they are more valid than any other is fallacy. Anyone whom can read, read comprehensively, use logic, reason and analysis is qualified to have this debate. Stop with the argument from authority. It's fallacy and they should know it, just as everyone should know it.

Good Book Report Bro. I can replace Jesus with Spock, Paul with Kirk, James with Bones and so on and so on . I can use the dialogue, we have an empty coffin tube, So Spock resurrected after MORE than 3 days. So Spock is God.

Cross examination at 48:05

my goodness... the info mike has is amazing!!!!

2:18:57 got me bursting...uffff..lolll

I'm sorry it's just so disappointing to see literate people in the 21st century still buying into these primitive beliefs

it hurts to watch, god have mercy on this guy soul

John 20:27 Then Jesus said to Thomas, “Put your finger here and look at My hands. Reach out your hand and put it into My side. Stop doubting and believe.” 28Thomas replied, “My Lord and my God!” 29Jesus said to him, “Because you have seen Me, you have believed; blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed.”…

All the ATHEISTS SHOULD HAVE GOT UP AND WALKED OUT

Did mr. Barker ask why the perfect word of god needs apologists? Ive probably taken out of context or misinterpreted the term apoligists. I dont know.

Many references to Corinthians 1:15...firstly, Paul contradicts ALL the gospels by saying Peter was the first to see the risen Jesus, not the women (remember the gospels themselves cannot agree which women). Why cant God get his story straight? Even more alarming is Pauls mention of an appearance to 500 people, and ALL of the gospels fail to mention this. The whole "well just cos they dont mention it doesnt mean it didnt happen" is bullshit. Had it happened, they would have mentioned it, period. Even more alarming, a man who has been publically executed appears to 500 people, some of whom would have surely seen him die...and this, surely the most remarkable event in the history of mankind, doesnt get back to any of the Jewish chroniclers who would have recorded it? What a load of nonsense.

Hey wtf his real name is Chris Cringle and he really existed and still does

The TLDR of Licona's argument: THIS guy said, and THIS guy said, and the😢THIS guy, and he sounds really sure.

Why do Christian apologeticcs

Lol we’ve come sooo far since 2003.

Watched all of it 2:32:25

Dr.dan barker i will tell you that there is no jesus.

Can you imagine talking about magic so confidently that you don’t even wince at how ridiculous you sound

The Bible is incredibly weak as an attestation of accurate history.

66.44 both scenarios are unbelievable.

1:04:52 the audio dropping out is a good example of us hearing and also not hearing; Dan is refuted by a mere audio issue of how something can be both

I encourage all the atheists here to read NT wrights book on the resurrection where he analyzes all the Pauline passages thoroughly on the resurrection and mikes book does so as well where they show the history of the use of the words for resurrection. NT Wright makes a good point that if they lived in first century Judaism they would not say a resurrection happened if they meant spiritual

Dan doing a good job of not answering a question directly

Great job Mike and God bless.

I love how theists use philosophy to help them prove they're correct. Why should you need anything else other than the Bible? That is the only book that Christians say was directly inspired by the diety they defend. Why use human philosophy to prove God when you have a so called book that was directly inspired by him? Because when you actually open that book and read it, you realize it's just as crazy as any other so called "holy book" from other religions littered with contradictions and blatant immorality by God himself! Yet we are supposed to believe Jesus rose from the dead in a physical body because a bunch of people said they saw him? Gtfoh

Who cares and besides I wasn’t around at the time !

My comments during this debate:

Yes Dan it was plausible that Paul also ingested hallucinogens and had a religious experience and it’s also plausible that he rode a UFO 🛸 around the galaxy before getting struck by lightning ⚡️ I mean the possibilities are endless with you Dan!!! Endless!!!

Ok Mike Licona aced this! To God be the glory!!

Man, and to think I used to be an atheist and a member of Barker's organization. For an anti-religious group they were as religious and cult like as it gets

The book MisGoded by dr Laurence brown proves Jesus never died nor could he have died even if Jesus did die what exactly did he sacrifice the answer is nothing Jesus was Jesus and never started a new religion

dan Barker gets destroyed here, like always...

There are, BY FAR, more people who became believers through the unbiased study and reading of the Bible, than read and studied it, who have not.

Anyone with a neutral pov has to say that Mike destroyed Dan in this debate. KO! Dan, how much greek have you studied? 2 years So basis greek and some intermediate greek? Well I studied 5 years of greek (says Mike) and continued studying it for 20 years. And it's laughable how you understand greek. No reply

You are right dr. Dan barker i m agreed with you.

1:20 Muslims believed what they were taught, and willingly died for it. You mean the Disciples made up a resurrection story and willingly died for their lies? You're a funny guy.

Sounds like Dan has a problem with facts that don’t coincide with his disbelief! Eg; he asks how do we know that the apostles were martyred? Lacona gives overwhelming evidence and Dan goes quiet! Every time Dan talks it’s based on his ideas of human nature! 🤣🤣🤣🤣 who died and made Dan an expert on human nature? Dan wants plausible explanations which he ignores and ignores! That doesn’t make you smart Dan! 🤣

First of all, let me answer this quickly. NO! Secondly, I'll explain why. Because the oldest known texts we have found end with the death of Jesus. That's it. The resurrection want added to the text until a hundred years later. The first mention of the resurrection of jesus was made by Paul in papyrus 46. Which is funny because that's part of a Greek handbook on magic. His resurrection isn't added to the new testament texts until middle 2nd century a d. Also, this nonsense that the testimony of women wasn't really valid in that period, there are Roman court records were female slaves brought Roman masters to court for swearing at her. She won a years salary. Another brought her master to court because he did provide her with the best education he was capable of. She won as well. To claim Jewish women had no authority, maybe they should read their bible a bit more closely. For it was a woman who validated the entire bible to the king and too the people. Not just any woman but a woman they searched for and sought out. They named her which is interesting because a text was found dating to the beginning of the bronze age. This text is important because the 3 woman who wrote the story signed their name. It was witnessed by two men which is still valid in a court today It was basically the bible story. She even editorialized her own work and said they basically wrote it as a bedtime war story. It was enjoyed so much they took it on the road as a type of drug fueled orgy traveling theater. It was these women named in the bible who validated the bible as the word of God to the king. So if a women's word was so meaningless why was it women whom validated the bible? Why was it women whom Jesus and his wealthy highly educated disciples sought out to find their rebel band and protect them? Oh and while we are at it; let's stop pretending these people were poor and illiterate. First of all fisherman were amongst the wealthy upper class. The most sought after products in Rome and jerusalem at the time were olive oil from Spain, salt and fish garum. So let's stop pretending they were poor. According to Mary's lineage, Jesus was the great grandson of the rightful king of Jerusalem. The king herod overthrew. He was neither poor nor illiterate. She was so prized she was taken to the temple when she was born where she was educated in Jewish scripture and hebraic law. She trained there until her pregnancy. Also, let us not forget she was considered the immaculate conception. Not Jesus. She was the one raised within a Jewish temple by priests. Not Jesus. Let us also not forget it was wealthy widowed women whom Jesus selected to travel with them. Not the poor. Oh and the ancient world was very multi lingual. Not only could they read and write but they had to in many languages otherwise they wouldn't have been able to trade, rent a roof, travel, etc. Let us also consider that there is no reason to write books if no one can read them. Not only were texts recorded in Aramaic but in latin, sanskrit and Greek. Greek btw was the official written language of the aristocracy and government. Much like latin today. Most believe it is a dead language because we no longer speak ancient latin, but people like me use it everyday in our work. The official aristocracy languages why from Greek to Latin to French then English. By 2027 it'll most likely be Chinese. Stop saying women's voices were excluded and these people were poor illiterates. It's just not true at all. Hell, the original hebrew all powerfull creator god was a woman. Yhwh was merely one of 72 lesser Gods until the Hebrews lost the battle of 586bc. That's when they killed of the female God and blended all the 72 remaining lesser Gods into one God with 72 names.

Barker seems to be pretty generous in granting there were all these hallucinations, an empty tomb etc..I suppose you have to to have any sort of debate but as far as the empty tomb goes and a lot of those witnesses (the 500) the best and most probable explanation is that it's legend and none of it ever occurred. No need to come up with a swoon theory or wonder where the body went to when there was never an empty tomb to begin with. It's just a story like the miracles.

Christ is truth! No matter how the wicked argue their points, truth is it takes much more to be an atheist! Dan Baker, you made an oath to the Lord, then you betray and forsook Him. He too will forsake you when that day of His judgement comes. Brother Mike, may God continue to bless you🙏

42:45 Dan's been exposed as a phony for saying "We don't know how any of the apostles died except Judas." Almost all of them are on Google!

37:10 was a mic drop moment. Mike is awesome lol.

Matthew 28:1-8, Mark 16:1-8 and Luke 24:1-12 tells us that an earthquake occurred as an angel of the Lord went down from heaven to roll away the stone that closed the tomb. They also tell us that some of the women who followed Christ went to His tomb and did not see Him there; instead they were told that Christ is alive just as He promised.

Some people in the comment section are going after Mike. Why are y'all mad at Mike? Mike is only speaking about what he believes. And so is the other guy.

Dan Barker handled historicity poorly. Even Bart Ehrman would disappoint with him.

God Bless us all Atheist 🥰

Liconas very well spoken and educated. Articulating his stance without arguing but with more persuasion.

😂 Jesus’ corps was fed to the crows…