Debriefing Formation Flight that didn’t go well…

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See what it’s like to #Fly #Formation, and try not to get sick.
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In this episode we’re flying with the Yellow Birds over an event commemorating the Battle of Britain; It was not the best idea to take a first time passenger for a ~45 minute formation flight in slightly bumpy conditions - It was a distraction for me as the pilot, and I probably should have cut it short instead of finished the flight - Live and learn.
(P.S. Thank you for not #Barfing in the plane Al - You did great sticking it out for that whole flight :)
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FLIGHT CHOPS DISCLAIMER:
I am a "weekend warrior" private pilot, I fly for fun with no intentions of going commercial. I have had my PPL for over 15 years, but still consider each flight a learning experience - I generally take detailed notes after each flight to remind myself what went well or what I could do to improve.... Having GoPro cameras to record flights like this is invaluable. I find these self analysis videos very helpful in my constant quest to improve, and am happy to share. Feedback is invited; however, please keep it positive.
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Опубликовано:

24 ноя 2023

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Комментарии : 79

@MusicmatchJukebox 5 месяцев назад

Props to Al! Handled it like a champ. Air sickness is a miserable experience for anyone, and I always feel bad when a student gets sick during a training lesson with me. I learned the hard way early on in my instructing career the importance of pacing flights and not rushing into certain maneuvers too early. Thanks for a great and informative video!

@jessedennerlein9746 5 месяцев назад

Wow, tough ride. I've had people get sick on sailboats before and there is a point where there is next to nothing you can do for them other than get them on the hard as fast as possible. Al hit that point pretty quickly but what a trooper, "I'd rather pass out then make you go back!" He definitely deserves another ride for taking that attitude.

@ChrisB257 5 месяцев назад

Yellow birds are GO! That was certainly quite a challenge, and exhausting!.

@AviatingWithMel 5 месяцев назад

Al handled that well. I had my first passenger get sick due to the turbulence earlier this year. I flew down to Duxford from up north where I live. We took off into smooth air, partially annoying as the forcast tailwind for the flight down didn't happen. But it was like glass, I have never had it trimmed out so perfectly. Anyway on route I dropped down to 1000ft AGL to do a flypast at santa pod where a friend was spending the weekend watching some racing. Hooo boy the air was choppy I climbed back to my cruising altitude but sadly fair weather cumulus were the tell tail that it was going to be choppy all the way in. She was ill a few times, I then found out she had skipped breakfast! We landed without incident, I had made the FISO aware I had a passenger that was a bit green about the gills so I would appreciate not having to go around. We were greeted on the apron by SIX firefighters and a massive airport fire truck, much to our ammusement. After some fluids and food she was fine and we had a pleasent day wandering around the museum, if you are in the UK its well worth a visit. She was fine for the flight home as the air was like glass again for the whole trip back. Oddly she has a powerboat licence and has never been sick on a boat.

@49richard 5 месяцев назад

I had the chance to fly, for 1 hour, the Chipmunk 017 FCYR with Andrei Tineghe on the 01 Sept 2018 as my last flight before returning my flying licence for health reason. I will never forget the feeling I experience during that time. I joined the RCAF in 1967 till 1989 as a Medic, I missed the chance to ride in one before they were decommissioned but I promessed myself that my last flight with be in a Chippie and I did it! Thanks to the Canadian Historical Aircraft Association !! I will never forget! Now I fly radio controlled plane and I have two Chipmunk and one is 017 59 inches and the other one is 013 with 80 inches wingspan! Lucky me!

@FlightChops 5 месяцев назад

Right on! I'll make sure Andrei sees this comment

@ATCDave1 5 месяцев назад

Al was a trooper. Nice and smooth formation work there Steve!

@FlightChops 5 месяцев назад

Appreciated

@maillouski 5 месяцев назад

Formation flying is on my bucket list!

@flysport_tedder 5 месяцев назад

Al is fantastic. What a trooper. I saw him licking his lips and looking unsteady before the nausea. Hadn't thought about extra nausea from formation flying like that! totally understand not verbalizing things with a nervous/new passenger.

@SoloRenegade 5 месяцев назад

I got air sick on my airplane IFR checkride on the climb out from missed to do my final instrument approach (VOR). DPE asked if I wanted to go back, but I stuck it out because we were so far along that turning around would take just as long as finishing the approach. Felt good by the time we landed. But that sucked, a long checkride 100% under the hood. I passed. Fortunately I've never actually thrown up, always was more of a dry heave. I rarely get sick as the pilot, but this high stress flight under the hood was rough. And we were at high DA in the mountains, flying at 9000ft+ DA the whole time.

@FlightChops 5 месяцев назад

Well done getting through the check ride in that condition!

@MightyN0ob 5 месяцев назад

It's so cool, that I could almost see my house from your POV. That's awesome.

@FlightChops 5 месяцев назад

Have you seen us fly over when practicing?

@dgriffin60 5 месяцев назад

You are not alone Al, I know your misery My respect to you for finishing the flight👍 Would like to see how follow up flight went - hope that it was a pleasant experience Best regards - David

@Glen_lastname 5 месяцев назад

I was doing a circuit check today in the DA40 out of CYKF and we saw one of these butifull birds from the Waterloo War Birds while on alpha holding short of 26 love to see them

@taylor818e6 5 месяцев назад

Thank so much for the book, certainly will pick it up. Anthony

@alancampbell1161 5 месяцев назад

Just a few brief points. I ran aerobatic adventure flights for ten years, and there was a certain amount of bag use, plus a couple who didn't make it to the bag. Hard work cleaning out a Pitts S2a. But the quickest time to throw-up was not an aerobatic flight but a formation flight to honour our service people. Also I would avoid talking about it with a passenger any more than necessary. My guests always had the opportunity to cut short, with the offer of another flight if that helped. One person insisted on the whole deal and was last seen some hours after the flight, lying in the parking lot barfing into the garden.

@LtKernelPanic 5 месяцев назад

I sympathize with him. I've never tossed my cookies while on a plane but twice I've casually checked the seat back pocket to make sure there was a bag in it but never needed them. I knew the ride into Heathrow was going to suck last spring when one of the pilots told the flight attendants to take their seats immediately about 20 minutes before landing. Maybe some Dramamine or even ginger candies would help on his next flight. Might also want to pick up some actual air sickness bags for future passengers.

@clarencewiles963 5 месяцев назад

Thumbs up 👍 it’s tuff to watch knowing what’s going on, but you’re right about going back and watching his reaction to even talking about it.

@FlightChops 5 месяцев назад

I appreciate that

@AndrewFlyGuy 5 месяцев назад

Major props to Al! As far as sick passengers go, he was pretty ideal. Didn't miss the bag, moved his mic, wanted to power through, and did stick it out.

@FlightChops 5 месяцев назад

For sure - I forgot to explicitly mention in the video that I appreciate he'd moved the mic; the majority of the flight he was hard to hear because the mic was under his chin after he'd initially shoved it out of the way, and I didn't worry about correcting him on that as it was safe there :)

@SkyhawkSteve 5 месяцев назад

It's been quite a while since I've used a bag in flight, but the zip-lock bag seems like a good idea. No need to tightly grasp the bag in order to keep the contents properly secured. Condolences to Al!

@FlightChops 5 месяцев назад

Yeah - I’m rocking a heavy duty freezer zip lock in the console at all times 🫡😂🫠

@swiftadventurer 5 месяцев назад

I always keep bags in the RV, but last year after 44 years of flying I never thought I'd be the one using them... dam that Cracker Barrel meal in Seymour, just before doing KSER - CYKF. 🙄

@FlightChops 5 месяцев назад

I don’t think anyone is 100% immune to the risk of motion sickness at some point.

@GaryLaaks1 5 месяцев назад

I remember getting sick in a Baron in the early 80s on a bumpy day. My brother dad and I were flying around the beautiful Transkei wild coast when I started feeling old George coming for a visit. Pilot dropped dad and I off at the airport and continued flying to probably log flight time. I was in my early teens. Once you chuck, it doesn't stop man. Don't feel bad abt it. Part of aviation and sailing.

@FlightChops 5 месяцев назад

Thanks for sharing your insights on the airsickness topic.

@Glen_lastname 5 месяцев назад

Hood in to the unusual atatudes got me after a few, I feel for you buddy, it turns a fun time into quite the opposite relatively quickly

@FlightChops 5 месяцев назад

For sure. I had a similar issue on a hood instrument lesson.

@polaritDK 5 месяцев назад

i really hope All gets another, more pleasurable experience at a later date !!

@FlightChops 5 месяцев назад

We'll get it done.

@mikewaterfield3599 5 месяцев назад

Air sickness for an aviator? Say it ain’t so! Your RV fits nicely with that crowd.

@FlightChops 5 месяцев назад

Can you clarify this one? I don’t fully understand what you’re saying :-)

@mikewaterfield3599 5 месяцев назад

@@FlightChops air sickness is terrible, I wish it on no one, and your RV with her paint job fits into that formation nicely.

@FlightChops 5 месяцев назад

Cool, thanks. And agreed yeah airsickness is no fun - I’m trying to help a few different pilot friends work through some exposure therapy to get over it so they can do aerobatics.

@ryancrazy1 5 месяцев назад

great job! what a trooper.

@durrellhorst22 5 месяцев назад

Really nice formation work Steve !

@FlightChops 5 месяцев назад

Many thanks! 👊

@mikercflyer7383 5 месяцев назад

Great formation flying with a little distraction, great job for Al to stick with it to complete the flight. Looks like a fun thing to do.

@FlightChops 5 месяцев назад

Thanks 👍

@jonathanirons231 5 месяцев назад

Mixed feelings here. "Do you want to go back?" is an incredibly loaded question, in the circumstances. Passenger hating every minute of it and yet, you want to "get there".

@FlightChops 5 месяцев назад

100% - This is a great debrief of what amounts to a sort of "get-there-itis". That's why I was happy that Al was willing to publicly share his pain, so other pilots could learn from my mistake here.

@thomasm8699 5 месяцев назад

Amen, brother. Big Mistake.@@FlightChops

@FlightChops 5 месяцев назад

@@thomasm8699 🤷‍♂

@randreas69 5 месяцев назад

Come to think of it, what's the codeword for a good out-putning if y'all need to relay it on the radio? "Hey, we've experienced an ellllggh!" 😅

@realulli 5 месяцев назад

(Not an aviator) I guess, a good codeword would be, "we're experiencing bio trouble, breaking formation!". It doesn't matter if the pilot finds something he ate doesn't like flying or if the passenger's stomach contents share the sentiment, you need to break formation and get on the ground in a somewhat expedite fashion.

@randreas69 5 месяцев назад

@@realulli Ive seen the code brown already on the 74gear channel, demonstrating an expedited debrief. It surprises me people willingly gulps down a big lunch before embarfi, uh embarking on a small plane ride. To each their own.

@steveshoemaker6347 5 месяцев назад

Thanks guy's.... Old F-4 2 Shoe🇺🇸

@bensmith7536 5 месяцев назад

Years ago I used to go with a flight instructor friend on weekend coastwatch flights, every Saturday, in a Cessna Aerobat. He would do his required flight, then get up to around 5k ft and proceed to throw that aircraft around to the point i didnt know which way was up. I've never had motion sickness since. Everyone needs to experience a hammerhead, and an inverted spin. You wont be scared of anything after that.

@FlightChops 5 месяцев назад

Hammer hard is probably my favourite maneuver!

@tyler-zw7yh 5 месяцев назад

I had an experience like this taking my ex girlfriend on a flying date to Catalina island. I had flown with her once before in smooth air without a problem, but just a tiny bit of turbulence over some mountains had her fighting it the whole way there. Having her hold the yoke and focus on flying level helped for a bit but once we got close to the airport there was a problem: the only couple clouds in the area were hanging out right in the approach area and there was no way in right away. She was fine until I my first failed attempt at an approach and the sinking feeling from retracting the flaps sent her over edge and we had no barf bags so she was puking out the window over the water (we were in a flight school 172) while I made 2 more circles around, feeling terrible, not knowing if I should continue or go back. Luckily the 4th attempt I was able to find a gap in the clouds and make it down safely. I felt bad for her still puking out the window as we taxied in and of course some guy was taking pictures of our plane straight ahead and I was trying to turn away to keep her from showing up in his pics…😂🤦‍♂️ Luckily they had motion sickness pills on the island so she was okay on the flight back. I definitely won’t ever forget that flight. Sorry if anyone took barf showers in their boat… 😅

@highmarkrich 5 месяцев назад

Get some emesis bags. Waaaaaay better, they store easy, stay open, and you can seal them off afterwards.

@AnsonChappell 5 месяцев назад

I got a pack of 100 on Amazon. So far no one's had to use any though!

@highmarkrich 5 месяцев назад

@AnsonChappell We use them for the kids in the car, and they work great in the plane too.

@goatflieg 5 месяцев назад

That's some rough duty right there. You did an amazing job handling that while in tight formation. And Al was definitely a trooper!

@epiren 5 месяцев назад

Peppermint oil or an alcohol swab. The smell can help with nausea.

@FlightChops 5 месяцев назад

I had the alcohol swabs on board for that, but forgot about them. Thanks for the reminder.

@edcew8236 5 месяцев назад

In some circumstances in the US, passengers aren't allowed in formation flight due to possible distractions....

@FlightChops 5 месяцев назад

Yes this sounds like a legit consideration. At our museum we offer the seats to volunteers and crew at the discretion of the PIC. This was a good learning moment for me (and the rest of us at the museum).

@chrisgill1302 5 месяцев назад

If I have a passenger that is feeling nauseous, I'll actually let them take the plane and make a few gentle turns so they feel in control which seems to help. Of course, you can't really do that when you're in formation.

@joewilliams4142 5 месяцев назад

This was interesting. Recently I was watching one of the military tubers , he had similar issue with pax, it was a multi crew cockpit. PIC kept asking rear seater if he was ok..finally ….instructor tells PIC to stop asking him as it was just making it worse. I don’t know if thats true ? But who knows.

@FlightChops 5 месяцев назад

Thanks - and yeah, Military probably has different protocols around this sort of thing, but I'd rather check in with my passenger to make sure they are not suffering. My take away from this one is that I should have just cut it short when it was clear he wasn't doing well even though he was saying to keep going.

@joewilliams4142 5 месяцев назад

@@FlightChops Well, he did great. I enjoy formation flight so I’ve been watching yours. Good stuff. Thanks for the reply and keep up the great channel.

@gtm624 5 месяцев назад

Albert is my middle name after my GF. Brother, It happens to the best of us. I have been there. Getting air sick can be trained away. It sucks to happen but your not alone. Especially if your flying the plane. Hopefully your next flight will be smooth. Thanks for sharing this video that’s incredible! I plan to do some ff training.

@taylor818e6 5 месяцев назад

Hello FC, I’m also dealing with motion sickness but want to pursue my PPL. What’s the latest method to deal with it and hopefully get 100% cured of it. Read everything from pressure points on your arm to peppermint to coke to lemon drink. I want to make my own multi axis trainer to cure myself of it! Thoughts? Thank you, Anthony

@FlightChops 5 месяцев назад

Right on - you can do it. I don't know all the answers beyond suggesting "exposure therapy". And to give yourself some hope, pick up Bob Hoover's book "Forever Flying"; beyond being an amazing aviation book (probably my favourite), he shares the story of how hard he battled against motion sickness in his early days. He went on to become the greatest pilot who ever lived as described by many of the greats.

@publicmail2 5 месяцев назад

How about a light breakfast?

@FlightChops 5 месяцев назад

Yes, that's what I had suggested, but I don't think he had really done that.

@brycedenning130 5 месяцев назад

Al my man, if you ever read this, don't feel bad. I've made some bad decisions about not eating and flying. It will get you!

@FlightChops 5 месяцев назад

I will make sure Al sees this comment 👊

@Jimmer-tr6bi 5 месяцев назад

This channel sure has changed

@FlightChops 5 месяцев назад

Proud to be able to share lot's of growth and experiences in all sorts of directions of aviation - It's been over 10 years since I started the channel.

@RaceMentally 5 месяцев назад

If it wasn’t bad food you’re not allowed to ride again

@FlightChops 5 месяцев назад

Serious question: Are you a pilot? There are MANY reasons that motion sickness can hit, and anyone can fall victim to it.

@RaceMentally 5 месяцев назад

@@FlightChops not anyone who rides in my planes.

@thomasm8699 5 месяцев назад

First impression......stupid to take an inexperienced person/pilot on a flight with an adgenda. Big mistake factor that could get you killed.

@FlightChops 5 месяцев назад

When you say “first impression”, do you mean you’ve commented before watching any significant amount of the video? Because your comment has reviewed exactly what the video is about; although the added hyperbole is a bit much.