Debutantes & The Social Season 

Loveee your videos!!! God bless you!

Um no Meg that's not how it worked. You being a deb in the 90s is not a substitute for research on a subject you clearly know nothing about. Men got to slide, no questions, they weren't considered "used goods", men got betrothed & broke engagements no questions asked throughout history in the upper classes. You need to do some reading.

@@PrettyPoppyGirl651 Me being a deb has nothing to do with me knowing about Breach of Promise. Men did not get to slide from a betrothal. Maybe you should do some reading in history yourself. Breach of Promise is an actual thing.

@@PrettyPoppyGirl651 Two seconds of googling would’ve been enough for you, Pretty Poppy, but no, you had to talk down to me and say *I* knew nothing of what I was talking about and needed to do some research. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Breach_of_promise

@PrettyPoppyGirl651 Nothing Meg said was incorrect. Men could be sued for breach of promise, though the woman or her parents didn’t necessarily want such a situation to be more public than it already was.

I know what you speak of deb but it is facts, many many times men got to slide leaving the young lady in shambles. You actually both are correct. But the more powerful the girls father was the harder it was to slide.​@@MegCazalet

I was like this lady is sounds dope and then she got to that part 😮. Sheesh

​@@Giraffatitannn_ 😅 I know , right! It's like that saying, " She's a 10, but a Nazi" so disappointing .

😂 Lmaaaaooooi

To be honest, as a British born German citizen, Unity Mitford was just a lost soul who could just have easily become a Communist. She is a useful hate target, to distract from the Nazi supporting aristocracy in general, King Edward and Wallis, who also courted the Fuhrer. Even Elizabeth 11, Greedy Betty was exposed giving the Nazi salute... I wish Americans would stop idolising the British monarchy and aristocracy. Because, Jeez, if your taxpayers had to foot the bill... especially the rich ones, you might think differently. 😂

I mean the British aristocracy’s way of thinking at that time (and today for many people) and the Nazi ideology are two sides of the same coin

Ditto.😢 I have Asperger's, so I'd hate that! Praise God I live in 21st century Florida.😅

Yeah I am on the spectrum and it would kill me.

I am also an introvert and HSP so this social schedule sounds like torture! I used to attend events but now that I’m over 50 I don’t bother trying anymore. I’m just counting down to retirement and hope to find a quiet cottage in the Italian countryside. My son also mirrors me and at 27, just now getting a social life. He feels like he’s 10 years behind, but at least I’m not a grandma and he’s never been arrested! ☮️

@@user-gc4zy2sr2g you would feel well represented by Francesca on this season of Bridgerton 😂 actually I think everyone in this thread would

Righttttt? 😅

That's so fun! Do you have photos?

That's crazy!! Do you have any memorabilia or photos?

@@carag2567 unfortunately not! She was photographed by one of the society photographers, and that has survived as a tinted picture that hangs in my mum's house.

@@BriarMB13 not really, but she thought it was amusing: she giggled about a 'conveyor belt' of damsels trooped past Edward VIII tout de suite!

@@BriarMB13 he might still have been Prince of Wales at the time.

In some countries, it's still like that

@@oeknnd Absolutely

John Stuart Mill was a great feminist and wrote The Subjection of Women, protesting the treatment of women in the mid-1800s.

It is crazy that bringing forth life can be seen from different perspectives. Either women are treated with the upmost respect because they create life or they’re treated like a machine that pumps out humans

God forbid that that should happen again. There are plenty of men that would love for things to go back to this..

Admittedly my debutant ball was about 30 years ago now so things may have changed. My ball was not associated with my school at all so anyone was able to be presented. It was more of a traditional Debutant Ball where we all wore lovely white dresses and were presented (I think to the mayor or some politician) we were able to choose our own partners but we did have to do the dancing lessons. Oh and I am Australian also.

@@emmylou78 TBH mine was about 15 years ago, so my info may also be out of date. My school stopped requiring white dresses maybe 5 or so years before my ball, but it's probably different for everybody

this is so fancy

she was a maid with standards

@EnchantedLove30 At this point is not about marriage, it’s purely about showing off.

For the amount of money expended the cheese had better bi good. After looking at this video I prefer to be free as a Buddhist.

That's how I feel about lavish weddings. And I'd rather buy a house ir cruise around the world with the money. An aside, good cheese is more expensive than porterhouse steak or king crab. . Most time, I'd prefer cheeses. The smellier and runner, the better 😊😊😊

@@MegCazaletyour thinking is absurdly black and white, has it ever occurred to you that more than one thing can be true at a time? The rich still overwhelmingly marry each other, and showing off is absolutely part of everything they do, including deciding who they’re going to marry. They even have their own rich people dating apps😂

@@user-yq2rn2hy8p I have never enjoyed a Stilton shared with live maggots but I’ve read it’s an experience. 🫣 I actually called my aunt later to try to track down that blue cheese. She called the hotel where the ball was and got the name. It was a small dairy in Dallas, where they live, but I never got it again. They’ve since closed. My friend tried to run a cheese business herself for a bit, but it’s hard! I had sure fun while that lasted though!

My husband just said the same 😂

I mean, sure you can beat it... alot of the information in this was taken from a debutante documentary where the Duchess of Northumberland, Duke and Duchess of Devonshire and a large number of other aristocrats sat down and discusssed their experiences firsthand....look up BBC Timewatch Debutantes. Its on daily motion. Stealing content and repackaging as ones own is pretty gross behavior.

I adore Sir Ewan! He is included in my trans royals video: ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-r_7l1P19xrE.htmlsi=UL_p0f0F3RGj52Ex

Its nothing new there were gay people in Jesus time they just werent Flamboyant and trying to shove it down peoples throats. Just be gay and shut up

😊

Bal des Debutantes is an annual ball held in Paris where ladies from elite families go and show off their dresses and jewels. I think they also have to be involved in charities or something to be invited, not just from a rich family.

That sounds like Junior Cotillion/Cotillion common in some places in the US.

That sounds lovely. Everyone is included and it almost seems like a rite of passage as opposed to an elitist show.

That one poor girl looked like she feinted, poor thing.

Me too. So ready for part 2!

Honestly I need to watch it. Francesca is so autistic, at least autistic-coded. Since ya know, this is the early 1900s, they didn’t have the diagnosis yet. (I say this as an autistic person)

La série télévisée ou les livres. Les livres sont mieux et même un peu coquins

So do I. I love Bridgerton. 💕 I watched seasons 1 and 2. I even watched the Queen Charlotte spinoff. 👑 And I can't wait to watch the new season 3! 😊

I adore Sir Ewan! He was included in my Trans and Nonbinary royals video! ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-GYE5enYylmc.htmlsi=cDBHtiMXo0yX_nnc

@@LindsayHoliday Thank you for the link! And for introducing me to Sir Ewan. 💖

My mom and godmother are Deltas! The best women ❤

It sounds absolutely gorgeous!

I always hated how Bonnie died and what it did to each of them after the miscarriage 😕 so tragic IMO - I always wanted them to work

@@acoe2012acomg same I read the sequel books by different authors just to fill my fantasy of them getting back together

Aw man spoilers! :p

Scarlett o'hara was also 1/4 Cherokee, therefore not white enough.

No she was not. ​@joltjolt5060

Amen, sister. 😊I, too, an on the spectrum and was horribly bullied.😢 I'd hate to be showed off like a prized pure bred dog at Westminster.😢 Ugh.😊

Did y’all forget about Jeffrey Epstein and prince Andrew??? This is all the same!!!!!!❤❤❤❤❤❤❤😂😂😂😂😂

Female beginner????? Oh lorddddd ❤❤❤ Jeffrey Epstein and prince Andrew were best friends ❤❤❤❤

I agree with you, but we weren’t always the help. Free Blacks, especially wealthy free Blacks, had debutante balls (from the 1700s to present day ). However, even in black spaces it could be elitist and colorist. If you’re interested check out the books “Aristocrats of Color” or “Our Kind of People!”

I, too, was intrigued by debutant balls when I was young. I'm neurodivergent, but not on the spectrum ("neurospicy" as some people like to say) so as a teenager, posing as a debutant, then unabashedly being myself when it was too late for them to do anything about it always held a lot of appeal. I'm starting to realize that this is suspiciously similar to the plot of an Amanda Bynes movie!

Lisez plutôt les livres au lieu de regarder cette série

at that time if you had something tragic happen to you, you had to suck it up, act like nothing happened and carry on

True. He didn’t divorce either of the 2 wives usually mentioned. The marriages were annulled. If they had been divorced Mary would not have been declared illegitimate by her father. The point was he claimed he should be allowed to marry again as his first marriage was illegal as he had married his brother’s widow. (Sorry this isn’t teaching you as I realise you know all this, just a comment under yours).

Exactly. This is the reason why he separated from the Catholic Church. There is no divorce in the Catholic Church and the Pope refused to grant the annulment since the marriage was consummated.

it isn’t creepy it was just the practice of those times, what was creepy was how they ignored the poor classes, of any race, that they lived off

The schedule would have killed me. Trying to make intelligent conversation every night with every man you encounter. I'd want a break after 2 nights of that to just sleep and read a book at home. I did enjoy my junior and senior prom, getting all dressed up and having my hair and makeup done, but I went with friends and we did do a lot of dancing and had a good time. I also slept in the next day. One of the few times mom didn't make me go to church Sunday morning.

Yeah ikr.....I could listen to her forever ❤❤

Poor Georgiana, so glamorous but so tragic. Have you read Amanda Foreman’s biography of her? It’s pretty good but I find it a little dry. (Though she’s a much better biographer than Kate Williams, IMO.) I’d like to read a novel about her. She appears in Emma Donohoe’s historical fiction novel Life Mask, which is mainly about Anne Damer, the sculptor, and the actress Eliza Farren, but Georgiana is a friend of Anne’s. I think I’ve only encountered her in historical fiction as a side character. But surely someone’s written a novel about her. I can’t decide how I feel about Lady Bess. Do you like her? Of course the movie The Duchess is really good and gorgeous.

She hadn't made a video of Georgie yet...in the near future.

There's a movie out

Similar to Quinceañeras in the Latino community in the US and Latin America

Oh honey this ain’t the same….. look up Jeffrey Epstein and prince Andrew and bill clinton honnnayyyy we wear real diamonds not that plastic stuff

That’s like a quinceanera though. Debutante balls were for finding a husband

You're so welcome, I adore Sir Ewan! There was talk of a series, but noting out yet. He is included in my trans royals video: ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-r_7l1P19xrE.htmlsi=UL_p0f0F3RGj52Ex

I was totally distracted by the cute kitty. 😻

It's still a gross practice. Doesn't wipe off the blood or the socio-political ramifications that followed it's creation for centuries after.

So like quinceneras?

@@AstarionWifey I was thinking that too.

@@FreedomWriter3Very similar, but in place of damas & chambelans we have candles & roses! They have differing practices.

She specifically said "daughters of the aristocracy" couldn't earn their own money, I'm not sure how you got to thinking she said no women worked ever in the Middle Ages, yes most women did because most women were not "daughters of the aristocracy". The video is about high society, she very obviously isn't talking about regular working class people here.

She’s talking about the wealthy and has acknowledged what you said in other videos. But yes, it’s important that people know women didn’t start working 50 years ago

I should have said that!

Wow... God forbid she try and enjoy herself. That repression is sickening.

They called it "putting your hair up." Since Americans don't have a season. Careen Scarlets little sister is about 13-14 and they have a discussion about whether she can go out to the ball. Also Melanie talks about when Uncle Peter helped the family decide if she wasold enough to put her hair up and go to parties. After the war it was less formal.

@@elizabethlee2136 I know, putting your hair up and your skirts down. But that just means being of age to have "beaus." Not a debutante.

@@TawnyC_ Well, isn't that basically what a debutante is - a girl who's officially on the marriage market?

@@ThinWhiteAxe No. It's one that has made a formal debut to enter "society."

@@ThinWhiteAxe I think I get what the other commenter is saying. Being on the marriage market and being “in society” were slightly different. Men can know a young lady is available for proposals, but that’s different from a girl having been presented, or having “come out”, which is ALSO slightly different from allowing a girl to come downstairs for dinner and eat with the adults. To put her hair up and lower her hemlines and “put away childish things”. For example, in Mansfield Park, Fanny is allowed to socialize like a grownup but she isn’t formally “out”. I’m blanking on where else there’s a conversation about whether or not a person is or is not “out”, or if that’s the example I’m thinking of. I can picture the Crawford siblings discussing Fanny that way. So, being “out” in terms of being a debutante is a specific form of “out in society”. Because it’s a formal presentation, a formal acknowledgment. Obviously there wasn’t a monarch to be presented to, but there was generally a ball held to make it official. A girl can have been socializing almost the same before and after her official debut, but afterwards there was a sense of greater responsibility and, well, in the past, urgency. Because of course the goal back then was always to get a wealthy husband with the right family connections. Titles of course aren’t a thing so it’s all about land and business. I’m in a weird position of having been born and raised in the South and even admittedly been a debutante in the South, but my knowledge about the historical formalities of being a Debutante is all focused on the British version. The social rules of the South are weird because I feel like we rarely spell them out. It’s almost 5 am and I’m here yammering about this because despite the sleeping meds and pain meds, I can’t sleep. Guess I ought to give it another try. I hope my comment helped in some way. I really really wish I could find the exact literary conversation I’m thinking if that explains the difference between being considered an eligible young woman who can socialize with adults and being considered “out”. Good night!

Débutante en 1980, quel connerie. J'habitait seule en 1968 et j'avais 21 ans et ce n'étais pas inusuel surtout que les années 60 étaient des années très libertaires en Europe

Les Américains étaient en retard car en Europe on était plus libre, moins coincés

@@moniquesilverans3842 are you calling us slow?? I'm sorry I don't understand French.

@@jamellfoster6029 Pas lents mais en Europe on était déjà très libre en 1960 et on sortait librement avec des amis et aux USA vous tenez compte de la communauté et vous étiez moins libres

I kinda do, but I also remember debutante episodes from The OC, Gossip Girl, and Degrassi (first Manny, then Fiona).

I don't know what you are referring to , but Georgianas son-Hartibgton never married so the title of Duke of Devonshire went sideways in the families. Kathleen Kennedy was engaged to Billy Hartington ( heir apparent ) in World War two , but they both died 😢😢

@@user-yq2rn2hy8p Debo married Billy’s younger brother. Georgiana and her son Hart were way back up in the family tree. Lindsay mentioned Unity Mitford in the video so I just wanted to mention that relation to the Cavendishes/Devonshires.

Always wonder how Kick would’ve done as Duchess. Would’ve been very interesting.

Most women back then didn't have this option, either. This was for women who were of the nobility/upperclass. Debutante balls still happen today.

And some things don’t ever change.

Thank you!

Usually they’d go out in their late teens, anything earlier than 17/18 was seen as slightly scandalous, and anything older than 20 was an old maid. If you weren’t married within 3 seasons, people saw it as a sign that no man wanted you

There are Dapper Days events and history bounding/LARPS where you can dress opulently and really enjoy it- maybe with a mask and social distancing?

I’m so sorry you don’t get to go to prom! Everyone who wants should have a chance to have one night dressed in an opulent gown and dancing with their partner and/or friends. But it’s so good of you to be aware and careful for your mother. Covid is technically still a thing everywhere, but we’ve all just really kind of moved on acting like it’s an event that has an ending, when it really doesn’t, ever. Covid and it’s mutating variants will be around forever. We’ve adapted some as a society, and adopted new protocol as part of everyday life, but it doesn’t mean everyone’s now safe and immune. You’re very responsible and loving to be so careful for your mother. As an immunocompromised person myself, I thank you.

@@RevertedRashidah Speaking of history bounding and LARPING: My husband got me a tabletop RPG that’s like D&D only it’s a Regency house party! So you’re playing people who are in that outwardly rigid but secretly permissive society, and you’re having flirtations and rivalries and gossip and jockeying for social status. I haven’t tried it yet for two reasons. One, I’m extremely nervous because I’ve never done any role playing before, so I have stage fright, though I’ve acted a lot and done a lot of public speaking. The best solution to that problem would be to just jump in, of course, but the other problem is I have nobody to play with. I could just start developing a character for myself. My husband plays D&D weekly and he and I developed a character for myself if I ever wanted to jump into his game for just a bit; my character and his character have a backstory together. I’m personally not all that interested in D&D but he is passionately, so I try really hard. It’s very sweet how much he wanted to incorporate me into his favorite hobby. Anyway, I would LOVE to LARP in any time in history where I could be a rich aristocrat! I watch all those shows where people live in historical settings, like Manor House and Time Crashers and High Street. Disney made that Star Wars LARP hotel that failed miserably, but a real life version of the book Austenland (but affordable) would be my JAM! Or Edwardianland. Or Restorationland. 60sland. I have lots of times/places I’d want to “go” to! What about you? Which time and place would you LARP in?

True...🤔

To quote Ruth DeWitt Bukater from Titanic. "We're women. Our choices are never easy." Or so it still seems today.😢😮

I’m sure there was still a demand for the meat.

@@grtlyblesd but I don’t think at that time so much - they went from millionaires to poverty line.

That stems from black and Asian culture and exists in those countries to this day.

@@saraswatkin9226 Where did you get that idea from? This concept goes all the way back to ancient Mesopotamia and Babylonia.