so to explain a few cards that aether spellbomb is old tech from pre ouphe for to bounce ethersworn canonist but still be efficient in Mana use and flexible in sequencing. I added it to yidris specifically because while there are other cards at the time that did that, it also needed to be a 1 drop hand attack only works if you can soul read the format, and opponents were sandbagging plays to dodge c spells or removal constantly. ran then in yidris because c spells were often blank on combo turns and I needed the extra 1s. here I think they caught on because people can do soul read better on cockatrice /discord/paper. also hydroblast is weird but yes it is often good but like then it immediately stops being good after a week. smol upside in killing your own dockside for some breach /yawg will plays but those are definitely side ideas I assume you're off on final fortune. same idea as reversal but also combos with necro so instead of passing the turn , they just die. also I'd love to hear your thoughts on codie. I can't get past the fact that every time I've netdecked that list, the deck has a ton of these really bad codie killers that don't let you play or activate codie but you need to see 1 post codie. so I'm mulling into oblivion because I'm trying to find codie + activation mana and a 1 drop to go off from. idk I'm glad you're having fun tho and this was a good watch. you've confirmed a lot of intuitions I've had about why I just wanted to do midrange things in blue farm and I appreciate that
1. I'm aware of Spellbomb, but that doesn't mean that it's good or remotely worthwhile in the modern era. It's far too cute and the recursion isn't realistic. 2. Nope, discard is never playable. 3. Necro is good enough on it's own, you don't need to play cheeky cards to make it work. 4. In the video, I mentioned that I like the Codie deck 5. Glad you enjoyed it
Slow to the party but found you based on your cedh content. Imagine you'll probably see more numbers from that group when they catch word of your work. Another big upside of Otawara or Alchemists Retrieval over Slaughter Pact is hitting a Null Rod or Rhystic. I know you know, but some probably don't realize the upside of Windfall/Wheels + Breach/Mnemonic. In the talk of P-Graap, Merchant Scroll, Infernal, and Solve the Equation, I was hoping you'd address Lim-Dul's Vault. Downside is not going to hand at 2 mana. Is that enough with the potential life loss to keep you from considering it?
@1:16:40 I'm definitely faulty of this! I love playing combo and always want some backup things, in my just in case the main plan doesn't work and they have an answer for the backup plan. It does work sometimes, but like you said just going for a version more focused on the main plain is almost always better.
Wow one of my favorites you've posted recently! I really enjoyed your take on CEDH, and completely agree with how you challenged some of the hivemind-y notions inherent in the playerbase (also really admire the low landcount!). Wondering if you could address these 2 questions that came to mind: 1) You talked about Bolas's Citadel briefly, but have you considered running Transmute Artifact as a way to cheat it into play? Silas (or any number of artifacts) could make for a good sacrifice target imo. 2) Since blue is basically the splash color in this deck, what are your thoughts on Tevesh/Rograkh? This combo gives a second usable partner, most of the same storm pieces, but you lose out on blue.
You need to build around citadel to make it effective. I’ve played it with a small package and it’s just not worthwhile. As for Rakdos, it’s just not as competitive. There’s no replacing Thassas Oracle.
For my play group we treat Wheel of Misfortune as an Ad Naus for 7. Therefore we tend to pay 6-11 life because that's probably how much we would take off an Ad Naus for 7. It's an interesting card because if you or someone else hopped into our pod our metagame may get skewed. Someone paying 4 or 5 life would almost never wheel besides the times someone pays 0 to not wheel and keep their hand. Someone paying 15 however would always wheel. I really like this card design from both a powerlevel and complexity point of few.
A lot of really stellar points. I loved most of the video except the discussion on Windfall. The idea of opponents mulling to 5 for Crypt feels like an oversimplification of needing to mull for a hand that have an impactful set of plays turn 1 and 2. However, I love your view on the format. Too many cEDH players do not have higher tier competitive experience in other formats. And even in cEDH, you get a lot of higher tier players stuck in echo chambers of decision making. It's nice to see some unconventional wisdom for this format that is clearly an upgrade when though out. Fastlands, Yawgmoth's Will in anything black, discussions on why you aren't on Sensei's Divining Top, etc.
I was literally talking specifically about Sol Ring + Mana Crypt based on past conversations with cEDG communities. Not meaningful initial plays, but I'm glad you enjoyed the video.
What are your thoughts on using Holdout Settlement / Survivors' Encampment in a RogSi deck? I haven't seen it in any lists for it, but it benefits from Rograkh in the same way that a Springleaf Drum or Paradise Mantle. It may be a feels bad when you have Holdout Settlement / Survivors' Encampment and Drum/Mantle but it still seems worth considering when the alternative is getting pinged for ad naus
Video’s a year old. You had 27 lands and made a statement you said would sound silly “city of brass is the worst land in the deck” and you were right. It sounded silly. I’m glad to see you snapped out of that little fugue state. Deck now has 24 lands and yet city of brass is still in the list. I play a bit of Rog Si myself and here is my suggestion; I know everyone thinks it’s super cool to run min lands now. You like stats though right? Keep a spreadsheet of all your mulligans and see what % is because you don’t have enough/any land(s) I did that and kept adding lands until 50% of my mulligans were from not enough lands. The number is 26
1. City of Brass could be cut if I wasn't playing The One Ring, it would be Mana Confluence. 2. 24 is the right number when the deck is played optimally
Omg I’ve been listening to cedh content because I’m a true addict but I have just non stop been listening to dumb kids say stupid things. Lots of, just obviously wrong, group think. Thank God I found this video! A cedh player who actually makes sense when he talks and there is zero mental masterbation. This is a breath of fresh air. Thanks Mr Cook!
Some card you've cut (at least according to your list on the DDB) since you recorded this video: Moonsnare Porototype, Infernal Plunge, Strike it Rich, Rain of Filth, Ledger Shredder. Mind giving any insight on why you've cut those?
Hi Bryant, Great video, very interesting to hear your thoughts as a (relative) newcomer to the format with such a credentialed background. I highly enjoyed some of your commentary around the narratives that a lot of the CEDH community espouse, especially had a good laugh about their perception of the speed of the format, this hits the mark so well, many times I have had this exact argument and the community certainly struggles to be honest with itself. Some thought's I had regarding a few of your points, and some interesting observations I had from my own experience going from ex semi-pro and eternal enthusiast into this format. My own journey mirrored your own at the start. (3 years back now) "Why are these casauls not on ponder preordain etc". "How on earth do they justify not being on Yawgmoth's will". Etc. Some things to note: You mentioned that most of your pods were on MTGO. Perhaps I am unrightfully projecting here, and this may be off mark, (if so please disregard): I hear you say things like most of my pods are 3 other blue players, or maybe one person on winota etc. I am guessing that you are playing in a meta of friends and other good 60 card format players, in a relatively closed playgroup. I am unsure how heavily you face: A) Semi Viable Decks - Unlike in 60 card formats, they can change your deck building situation quite a bit. In a true Nash Equilibrium you wouldn't see anyone playing Tayam Stax or Sythis Enchantress, but in an open tournament you need to be ready for these decks that are objectively bad choices, that despite that interact extremely well against a turbo non CZ card advantage strategy specifically. Their interaction rarely leads to them winning, but it can lead to you losing. Cards like cyclonic rift go up in value tremendously when this becomes more prevalent. B) Heavy multiplayer specific politics, including shared threat assessment and deal making. In the better pods I play, I will keep a hand with 1 land and fast mana only for the turn 1 player to resolve mystic remora. I will actually take actions like revealing my hand to the entire table, showing the sacrifice I would be making by not feeding the fish, and asking all 2 other players to agree to also not make a 2nd drop in exchange for all of us not feeding the fish a single time. These kinds of crazy deals that can be constructed become common among format veterans, and Prisoner's Dilemna type situations can be resolved by rational actors who agree to follow a specific outcome. You may or may not have experienced this, and how it can slow the game down artificially and really disadvantage turbo strategies. Good players may just reveal a force of will from their hand to the table and tell everyone not to go for it, and everyone plays around it as it is known revealed information. If nobody else is willing to combo into the force, a mexican standoff occurs where CZ card advantage puts pressure on the situation until the damn bursts, and turbo can be left behind. I still believe that turbo is the best strategy, but I'm merely aiming to illuminate some of the considerations that I take into account when building CEDH decks. In CEDH, you don't need 3 counterspells to stop 3 players, you just need one counterspell that they all know about. You can influence the game a lot in this way, and it will allow you to manipulate other player's behaviours through social means rather than using your resources. This is the number one thing that as someone who was incredibly good at 60 card formats took a LOT of adjustment. At a certain stage I was able to to achieve a winrate of 47% in a sample of 170 games. When not talking and using politics, I tracked 120 games with a winrate of 29%. Politics kills the most fragile deck, and turbo by it's very nature sacrifices resilience for speed. (I still think it's the objective best statistical choice though). Anyhow, sorry for the essay, and happy brewing, great to see more fresh takes in a community that desperately needs some!
Thanks for the detailed response, but I think a lot of what you're describing is against the spirit of competitive play. The politics aspect of cEDH is one of the worst things about it, that immediately turns it into a casual affair IMO. I also think you may be biased due to your setting because I'm not basing my decisions on a single player having a force. One counter isnt an issue and revealing information is frowned upon in higher caliber tables.
@@TheEPICStorm This might be something we disagree on then. I'd very much like to unpack what you're saying in regards to politics though, as it's a subject that deserves some detail I may have to make a RU-vid video or article.
First of all sir...this deck is insane. That being said...i was wondering how you feel about sundial of the infinite. It turns extra turn spells into a extra turn with no downside. And also if someone oppo agents you it can be dealt with for one man. Kudos on the deck. Im late to the party and am just now trying it. Great work!
If you play necro and the red extra turns highly telegraphed but it's usually 2 extra Mana I win, Crack the necro stack, ad naus untapp your lands and rocks I mean you're not looking to safety naus like in white black x ad naus decks it's won me alot of games in testing
It makes me laugh when someone argues about not putting "Mana Crypt" in there deck Listen people who say that: if you don't put it in your deck its because you don't have it That is all
So are you saying blackcleave cliffs is rather a badland than a bad land in this deck...? I'm gonna let myself out... Thank's for the content as always :)
Earned my subscription, fantastic video, well reasoned and I like that you (like me) push back against the hive mind that often occurs around some statements about the format and decide what you should play based off your own experience and own thoughts. Well done!
I'm not 100 % sure about your take when it comes to Forbidden Orchard. It only gives one opponent the 1/1 spirit meaning it deals a maximum of 1 damage per turn you tapped it delayed by one turn. If the game ends on your 4th turn and you are last in turn order and you tap it for mana every turn and all spirits attack you it will deal 3 + 2 + 1 = 6 damage or 1.25 per mana. It can/does get a lot worse if the game goes longer. I have found it to rarely even add up to more than 1 damage per mana, the spirits are in my pods more often used to block Tymna attacks or threaten to trade with Najeela. It isn't something that I have tracked properly so I can be wrong and it is dependent on the pod configuration and player threat evaluation. I can understand that rainbow lands are overvalued and that it isn't necessarily better than any land you have chosen to play but I wanted to add my thoughts to the discussion.
Super interesting video, and I definitely understand all your points but why aren't you even considering final fortune in your turbo deck (saw it in other storm lists)
I feel like with wheel of misfortune you have to read the table, sometimes it is apparent that someone is going to say zero. Otherwise I'll start at 10 life.
The only card I think you should maybe cut is the Timetwister. There are very few times where you want to shuffle your grave into the library. Just the fact that you run Mnemonic, Yawg Will and Breach are reasons enough to cut it. Yes its a super good card but I atleast think it goes against your gameplan to much. Otherwise I like your reasons for running/not running the cards in your list. You even talked me into running March, Strike it Rich and FoN
Glad to hear, I think Twister is cuttable but there are definitely worse cards still in the deck. It also is a back-up that allows you to mulligan aggressively as a reset button.
@@TheEPICStorm A card I did not see or hear about in the video that might be a thinker is Final Fortune. Really good post Ad Naus, Necro and Peer but also has its downsides.
I always found strike it rich just average for me just 1 mana for 1 mana but I get the point of setting up t1 for 3 mana on t3 though. Do you have your jpn foil decklist up to view? I’m curious to see the bling
