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DeLand Sport Showcase: Pipistrel Velis Electric Trainer Debuts 

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Slovenian airplane maker Pipistrel certified the first commercial-use electric airplane last year and is finding some buyers in Europe. Even as the Velis model trickles into the U.S. on a demonstration basis, it's not clear when it will be certified by U.S. regulators. In this video shot at the DeLand Sport Aviation Showcase, Pipistrel rep Andy Chan updates us on where the airplane stands with regard to deliveries, even as technical details on battery and motor TBOs remain difficult to pin down.

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24 сен 2024

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Комментарии : 78   
@PistonAvatarGuy
@PistonAvatarGuy 2 года назад
A little bit more expensive? It's more than twice as expensive as an Alpha Trainer! It doesn't matter if the operating costs are zero, that thing is never going to make financial sense.
@MrCuppycake99
@MrCuppycake99 2 года назад
Honestly think it's a good start and I hope they keep going down this path in the future....but an hour of flight time (or 50 minutes as he states at 6:16) and then 40 minutes of charging is just too low for training. If you're only using it to teach pattern work and landings that's one thing...but even then you're then going to have students use a different (and probably much larger / different) aircraft for everything else...and that aircraft will handle pattern and landing differently than this...especially if it's a low wing like a piper warrior or 180 that a lot of school usually have in their fleet. This means they'll have to do extra training on top of their current training to be proficient in both, which is a lot of extra work and stress for a new student to handle on top of their PPL training. I know they also said you can have charging stations at various other airports strategically placed to compensate for this but that still seems unreasonable given the rate of charge and total flight time available as it opens the door to more variables like weather to play a bigger role in the fight as you'll need plan around that extra 40/80 minutes of downtime you will have to do now that you wouldn't have had to with a normal trainer. I do hope they get larger / better batteries in the future though...cuz I'd personally love to see all electric aircraft become the standard across the board.
@patriotsfan1236
@patriotsfan1236 2 года назад
Yeah I don't think anyone will buy this because of the problems you listed. Also many flight schools as far as I'm aware have reserves beyond poh minimums. Meaning you could possibly need a 45 minute reserve or even an hour which would only leave you with 30 minutes of flight time.
@MrCuppycake99
@MrCuppycake99 2 года назад
@@patriotsfan1236 Yup...also all of that assumes you're the first in line to land...there's been quite a few times I've gotten bumped behind 3-5 other people just cuz of the pecking order or bad timing and spent 15-20 minutes being vectored around before landing. If that happened toward the end of a flight, you would be using a large chunk of your reserves on top whatever you already used and you might end up having to declare an emergency just to land for just doing a few simple traffic patterns...
@flexairz
@flexairz 2 года назад
Correct. and do not expect that batteries will improve ore than they are now. The tech is mature and there is just no unobtanium to be found.
@PistonAvatarGuy
@PistonAvatarGuy 2 года назад
People also seem to be ignoring how ridiculously expensive this airplane is compared to the Alpha Trainer.
@thomasputko1080
@thomasputko1080 2 года назад
Yes... we need more old farts telling us how things cannot be done. Answer me one thing - why does this plane becomes popular in Europe?
@patriotsfan1236
@patriotsfan1236 2 года назад
1 hr flight time? Not even practical for training. Even when the FAA approves this. What profitable flight school would ever buy this in its current configuration. 1hr of time with the student and then several blocks of time not being able to fly because its charging. Cross countries wouldn't even be possible. Cool experiment though. Many flight school rental requirements have lower fuel reserves than what's allowed in the poh for insurance requirements. For example many schools have a 45 minute reserve giving the plane only 45 minutes of flight time. Some have one hour reserves at night for private pilots. 10-15 for runup and taxi back. That leaves you with about 15-30 minutes of actual flying in some situations. I think Flight schools will logically compensate for the downtime of the aircraft in its rental rate if any of them ever bought this. The idea is awesome but this is more of a prototype because in my opinion it is not practical in the slightest.
@markmuir7338
@markmuir7338 2 года назад
With electric, taxiing will use a tiny amount of energy. When you're waiting at a holding point, the prop even stops. And there is no run up. Battery life is heavily dependent on use - I hope the 1 hour estimate is based on traffic patterns, which represent the highest energy use.
@Mr_Bones.
@Mr_Bones. 2 года назад
Dude, it’s new technology. They’re doing great. I give them props for progressing this much. Don’t forget, it took from 1854 discovery of the internal combustion engine to 1902 for first powered flight to happen. Things take time, we just happen to live in a time where most of the hard work was done before we were born :)
@patriotsfan1236
@patriotsfan1236 2 года назад
@@Mr_Bones. I'm not saying it's not an awesome concept. Not practical at all.
@patriotsfan1236
@patriotsfan1236 2 года назад
@@markmuir7338 true. Same with current air cooled ice engine. I'm really not sure how much power they use on the ground For sure less obviously.
@patriotsfan1236
@patriotsfan1236 2 года назад
@@markmuir7338 I'm going to say it's not based on traffic pattern simply because weather aircraft factors feeling like that usually 75% Cruise numbers or endurance numbers
@alpenglow1235
@alpenglow1235 2 года назад
For flight schools, the benefit of lower operating costs will be diminished by the 1:1 recharge time. An honest 8 hour day of productivity will be reduced to 4 hours. Of course, while the bird is recharging, the instructor can squeeze out another hour of ground training.
@remigiuszbloch
@remigiuszbloch 2 года назад
Or schools can just buy 2 planes...
@flexairz
@flexairz 2 года назад
@@remigiuszbloch Like they're cheap too
@alpenglow1235
@alpenglow1235 2 года назад
@@remigiuszbloch @ $250K each. Ridiculous.
@remigiuszbloch
@remigiuszbloch 2 года назад
@@alpenglow1235 yup, that's too much for private owner. I guess you pay for adopting that technology, you can feel better when you go to sleep that you are helping progress. Also you can put it on lease and just deduct cost of plane from taxes in EU [as most companies do]. You can also use it as part of your marketing strategy.
@MichaelOfRohan
@MichaelOfRohan 2 года назад
Hey Pauls back! How you doin bud!!
@maxleitschuh7076
@maxleitschuh7076 2 года назад
With 1hr flight times and $250k purchase costs they're not there yet, but they're getting close. If you look at how electric cars have progressed over the past decade, I think this will be the standard for new-build trainers within the next decade.
@wpw4508
@wpw4508 2 года назад
Batteries are pretty small compared to a car: 2x11 kWh (22 kWh) versus 60 kWh or so in a car. This'll probably need 40 kWh for a 2+ hour range. Hope in 5 years or so that 40 kWh solid state batteries will be available at the same weight as the current ones. Two other things I think I'll like. First, should be a lot more reliable that a piston single. Good enough for mountains at night? (doubtful) Also, I bet it's nice to have full torque within 1/10 of a second of applying full throttle.
@mrbmp09
@mrbmp09 2 года назад
Its actually has a 25 min flight limit.
@Dimme
@Dimme 2 года назад
0:59, what a legend, can stay focused with a WASP on his thumb!
@MichaelOfRohan
@MichaelOfRohan 2 года назад
I just really really hope the throttle to prop response is akin to petrol, otherwise this may be a bad trainer?
@josh3771
@josh3771 2 года назад
Just software, they could probably even program carb icing into it if they wanted 😂
@alpenglow1235
@alpenglow1235 2 года назад
Response will be much, much better. It's odd that you would be concerned about this. You should probably stay away from jets.
@TimAyro
@TimAyro 2 года назад
Look at how fast electric cars receive torque. Same idea.
@MichaelOfRohan
@MichaelOfRohan 2 года назад
@@alpenglow1235 i think you misunderstood me. Take your average pilot new in training. You want them flying over your house in a jet? Thats my point. Most wannabe pilots typically suck at flying off the bat. Why would you want to make it that much less likely for them to experience normal aviation? Electric planes are going to be awsome, but are they of typical flight characteristics akin to most private aircraft? If not, they would not make good trainers in my opinion.
@MichaelOfRohan
@MichaelOfRohan 2 года назад
@@josh3771 i think youre absolutely right. That brings up one other thought though. No maintenance right? Whats stopping you from jtagging and flashing your pipistril airplane with tesla truck firmware? XD
@Stooch
@Stooch 2 года назад
two major problems with batteries, cost and lifespan (not to mention chemical fires). at the current rate, these lithium ion batteries are expected to lose a majority of range within 6 years that's an awful lot of money to spend every 6-8 years, for what benefit exactly? saving the planet? we don't even recycle the majority of batteries as it is (6-8 years is the maximum for cars btw, having students in this would be a nightmare)
@johannes914
@johannes914 2 года назад
That's the future.... Well done Pipistrel
@patriotsfan1236
@patriotsfan1236 2 года назад
1 hr flight times are the future? I really hope not lol. Great concept. Worthless aircraft imo.
@patriotsfan1236
@patriotsfan1236 2 года назад
@@failingtheturingtest4381 the market will speak. I've worked at a flight school and I'm telling you now it's not practical. The wright brothers were innovating. Making thir aircrafts better. Almost nothing is better about this aircraft other than the lack of noise it creates.that is not innovative IMO. It's awesome it's being developed. Awesome they are putting r&d into aircraft like this. But in its current configuration it's very lacking compared to a petrol powered version for training. CFI s will have their hours cut in half. I stand by the statement that it's not practical in the slightest.
@flexairz
@flexairz 2 года назад
@@failingtheturingtest4381 Moving forward with tech that is mature and won't change anymore? You just can not compare that with the Wright brothers as they were starting with new tech. Batteries are from the 1970-80's, fully grown with all the problems they carry. Dead end.
@johannes914
@johannes914 2 года назад
@@patriotsfan1236 You seriously think the battery technology will not improve ?
@patriotsfan1236
@patriotsfan1236 2 года назад
@@johannes914 no? I never said that. But It's going to take a giant lead in battery tech. New kinds of batteries not more efficient batteries. They plan to market this aircraft in its current configuration and I think it will not sell well with some of the problems that aren't addressed at the moment.
@cellokid5104
@cellokid5104 2 года назад
Best thing that has ever happened to flight training
@brianBZ1
@brianBZ1 2 года назад
I think they should use range extenders like they're starting to use in Tesla cars
@Stooch
@Stooch 2 года назад
notice how much he dodges the cost batteries ain't it yet
@Stanislav_Sikulskyi
@Stanislav_Sikulskyi 2 года назад
When did the show take place in DeLand?
@AshleyJOsborne
@AshleyJOsborne 2 года назад
Just after DeTakeoff.....
@Superxpninja
@Superxpninja 2 года назад
That’s not enough range
@DavidLHadley
@DavidLHadley 2 года назад
Range really isn’t an issue when the primary mission set is pattern training…
@flexairz
@flexairz 2 года назад
@@DavidLHadley Well, it does when the airport shuts down for some stupid reason and the thing flies there with 15% batt left and nowhere to go...
@patriotsfan1236
@patriotsfan1236 2 года назад
@@DavidLHadley the real question is do you really think flight schools would buy a plane just for pattern use only? 0_o
@Superxpninja
@Superxpninja 2 года назад
@@DavidLHadley a trainer needs to be able to do legal cross countries
@Nderak
@Nderak 2 года назад
love all these electric planes
@Anonymous99997
@Anonymous99997 2 года назад
That plane turns the $100 hamburger back to $50.
@patriotsfan1236
@patriotsfan1236 2 года назад
No. They are saying it has the same powerplant / battery overhaul cost as the rotax . Think about it. You would save on fuel 3.5 gallons of fuel per hr (about 15$ currently) but you still need to do annuals, 100hrs, and then financially compensate for the extra hour of downtime after every flight. Another 15k for a ground charging station. It would be about the same price to operate but with extremely reduced capabilities for a flight school.
@PistonAvatarGuy
@PistonAvatarGuy 2 года назад
@@patriotsfan1236 "They are saying it has the same powerplant / battery overhaul cost as the rotax ." And that's actually total BS, the batteries have a much shorter lifespan and are around twice as expensive as a completely new Rotax engine. The aircraft is also much more expensive to buy than the Rotax powered equivalent.
@teamfutabaspeedfresh8339
@teamfutabaspeedfresh8339 2 года назад
Nice they finally got a electric full-size plane now. Let’s see how long is gonna last
@gasdive
@gasdive 2 года назад
They've been out for years. It's only the FAA that's been holding it up. Pipistrel been a commercial flight training aircraft in Australia for nearly a decade.
@patriotsfan1236
@patriotsfan1236 2 года назад
@@gasdive yeah but not the electric ones.
@gasdive
@gasdive 2 года назад
@@patriotsfan1236 electric ones since 2017.
@gasdive
@gasdive 2 года назад
@@patriotsfan1236 so not nearly a decade (memory fail there) only about half a decade.
@teamfutabaspeedfresh8339
@teamfutabaspeedfresh8339 2 года назад
@@gasdive oh ok. I didn’t know
@jimmiller5600
@jimmiller5600 2 года назад
Slowly moving forward. Good luck.
@publicmail2
@publicmail2 2 года назад
In years to come rental cost should come down.
@Stubby0266
@Stubby0266 2 года назад
Nothing in aviation will be cheap.
@Mr_Bones.
@Mr_Bones. 2 года назад
By the time flight training is cheap, we’ll have anti-gravity hover cars 😂
@fdtank81
@fdtank81 2 года назад
Way to go
@maximx963
@maximx963 2 года назад
Cool video, you have to subscribe right away. ,,
@mikeryan6277
@mikeryan6277 2 года назад
Not for me.
@freedomforever6718
@freedomforever6718 2 года назад
Wow! Use fossil fuels to produce the electricity to charge the batteries in your e-aircraft. That's an impressive idea.
@SolarWebsite
@SolarWebsite 2 года назад
Even if that were true, that path is still more efficient than burning gas in an engine... And it has other advantages. Grid gets cleaner -> plane gets cleaner. Simple.
@Captndarty
@Captndarty 2 года назад
Even if the carbon footprint was exactly the same to that of a gas engine. Zero vibration, no oil changes and zero power loss at altitude. Sounds terrible to me…….🙄
@kenb7051
@kenb7051 2 года назад
Even so electric motors can be designed to last much longer than ICE motors. As long as batteries are changed then i think they are more reliable ie safer. I am not saying they will have better range or power to weight. I have been watching this technology for a long time and as a trainer i think it is a solid logical idea. And personally i do not care if they charge it with a wood powered steam locomotive from the 1860s. The idea is to simply try to make it more affordable to get new pilots more hours for less money.
@patriotsfan1236
@patriotsfan1236 2 года назад
@@Captndarty oil changes take about 15 mins and aren't really expensive. Not really a factor per hr like cost of avgas or annuals.
@patriotsfan1236
@patriotsfan1236 2 года назад
@@Captndarty 1 hr flight time. This won't ever sell in the us in its current state.
@PaulAnthonyDuttonUk
@PaulAnthonyDuttonUk 2 года назад
Maybe, should be, might be, hopefully. All we ever hear from these unicorn salesmen. Also he needs to be reminded to take his sun glasses off when addressing and audience even an indirect one. Very bad manners. Book him Dano!
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