DELTARUNE / Alternate Reality or Alternate Timeline? 

True, true.

also older fire girl

It may seem like support but it's just ironic, they are all different entities, this is literally it's own unique AU.

@@peacesyll Kris could be an alternate version of Chara who didn't die (because no war) and they grew up from a toddler into a teenager. Asriel is older too, temmie seems to be older too.

@@peacesyll Huh I missed that good pick.

*alternate timeline i am a idiot when it comes to words

Oooo! That is a fantastic line of logic! Maybe whoever was responsible for studying souls in the UNDERTALE timeline never did that research in the DELTARUNE timeline? Very interesting. That is an awesome theory my man!

@@JaruJaruJ thanks a lot man, i feel like the reasoning for the war starting in the first place is rather overlooked within the community. which it really shouldn’t be considering how important it is.

@@JaruJaruJ maybe Gaster is the one who figured the soul stuff out and that’s why he’s so cryptically woven through everything? 🤔

@@charlieb8735 Quite possibly! Gaster very clearly plays an important role in all this, but it's quite trickyto figure out what role he plays.

If all my video does is make Toby Fox look good, then it was a successful video indeed! xD

It's amazing any artist, for most of the time they seem to be capturing real genuine worlds and never know it and thats what is so crazy and mysterious about it all

Yeah, from a meta standpoint, you're right. Toby Fox made both games, so it's objectively not random chance in the real world. But within the universe of DELTARUNE, it would be explained as just coincidence IF it really is a completely disconnected alternate reality. Of course, this is all fiction that we're talking about, so it's possible that we're dealing with some version of alternate realities/timelines that Toby Fox invented. Anything it technically possible.

@@JaruJaruJ I like to think that alternate realities should be viewed in the same light as AUs in the Undertale community. In the Undertale fandom, AUs or Alternate Universes are regarded as universes that modify Undertale to make something new. Examples include Underswap, Underfell, Humantale, etc. ATs or Alternate Timelines, on the other hand, take the events of Undertale and change them without changing established facts about the original game. Examples of these would include Aftertale, Dreemurr Reborn, Chronotale, and Floweypot. AUs are by definition alternate realities because laws and established facts can differ between universes. For example, it would be extremely hard to get Underswap just by changing the events of Undertale with swaps like Flowey and the temmies. You’d have to somehow create a bunch of Floweys without killing Asriel because he is alive and takes the place of Monster Kid. You’d also have to get rid of all the Temmies except for one without having this Temmie or anybody else remember that there were other Temmies to begin with, all while also somehow managing to stuff a dead Monster Kid into the Temmie. And that’s for ONE SWAP. Thing is, Underswap is still very similar to Undertale. The only difference is that the main characters swap places. That being said, in this case alternate realities are allowed to be similar to each other without being classified as alternate timelines instead. It’s very possible that Toby Fox doesn’t want the connection of Deltarune and Undertale to be like the connection to the Undertale AUs, but there are still definitely enough similarities to consider. Assuming they all exist in the same multiverse, similarities between Deltarune and Undertale WOULD be explained as Deltarune being a reimagined version of Undertale in universe.

@@JaruJaruJ It doesn't have to canonically be coincidence. Especially with similar religions existing, it seems likely that their worlds were created by some sort of deity or magical force, not just the culmination of natural forces coming together like ours. It's perfectly reasonable for two connected worlds to be created to be similar. I don't think we have strong evidence for either theory when you consider how much context we're missing, especially with Deltarune not being nearly complete.

To be clear, I know DELTARUNE could totally be an Alternate Reality and not an Alternate Timeline. That's why I used terms like "probable" and "unlikely" and other similar phrases. If two realities are extremely similar, then Occam's Razor would incline me to think it's an Alternate Timeline, but what's simplest isn't always what's true. Anything is possible in an Alternate Reality, which means that it is entirely possible for an Alternate Reality to be extremely similar to another reality. There's no way for me to prove that DELTARUNE is NOT an Alternate Reality, because an Alternate Reality can be ANYTHING, and thus it will always be on the table as a possibility. I'm not ruling it out. I'm just saying that the simplest explanation for two separate realities being similar is that they're Alternate Timelines, as that instantly explains the similarities without any more explanation being needed. Both options are still on the table until such time as one or the other gets proven to be correct. No doubt about that.

@@JaruJaruJ I agree with greyson Rose, your point where you state that the characters life situations being almost identical to Undertale despite the very different background and setting is evidence for being an alternate timeline, when it's actually the opposite! An Alternate Reality having everyone be in similar situations despite different setting is completely normal and expected - everyone filling the same roles as in the original reality, but in a new context. Meanwhile in an alternate timeline you expect the exact opposite, peoples lives and events naturally diverge even if their core personality stays the same, because life isn't deterministic.

@@Dorsidwarf I generally agree (although I'm thinking Deltarune's world probably isn't just due to Toby Fox wanting it to be like Undertale for thematic reasons and having come up with Deltarune first thanks to the dream he had), but in Deltarune, things are presented more than ever as though they are... Well, largely, deterministic, with the player being a possible exception of sorts, and Spamton hoping the three can sever "their own strings", although if the game has a separate ending I'd only excepct it from the Weird Route, but okay I got a bit off-track, point is, a better argument can be made in Deltarune than in Undertale that those characters can't actually control their fate... Why that'd result in them being remixed versions of another universe's set of characters isn't explained by that, though.

@Potato "Unlikely" to be used, not "unlikely" to exist. Sure, all alternate realities are equally as likely to exist as the other, but really, what AR do you think Toby will use for Deltarune. Undertale but sans decides to stand one pixel to the left in Waterfall? Or a world where magic doesn't exist and the monsters are above ground? We're thinking possibilities. A world that is exactly the same with only context being different is much more likely to be an alternate timeline in Toby's eyes than not. An alternate reality that is not actually much different from the original is a mockery of the word, nobody would understand why you didn't just call it another timeline in a fandom like UT. It also unnecessarily tears away connection between the characters and the player. You're presenting the exact same product, and saying it is not. That would be unnecessarily frustrating for fans, even for just civil discussion, so I doubt Toby would pull something like that. We also have to think about the meta and real life implications on some of the directions he could take. If he is going to make an alternate reality, he's gonna make sure people have a reason to call it so beyond a tweet clarifying this to some fan. He wants to make a good, interesting game after all. There must be a VERY good reason he is being quiet about this being an AR or AT, most likely a twist that would only work if the AT is similar enough or the AR is fundamentally different.

First of all, thank you for the lengthy comment! I'm glad to see people getting invested in this discussion. I'll go ahead and give my thoughts one by one. Regarding magic in DELTARUNE, Catti is the only person in the Light World to bring up the concept of magic and take it seriously. Nobody else is seen discussing magic, and not a single person is seen using magic. By contrast, we see Toriel use magic within seconds of starting up UNDERTALE. As such, given that Catti is the only one who discusses magic, I interpret this to mean that magic in DELTARUNE is treated the same way people treat magic in the real world. Nobody actually believes in it, and only random niche parts of society, like goth teenagers, actually believe in it. I think Toby gave those lines about magic to Catti, a moody teenager, specifically to show that nobody mature or serious believes in magic in this world. We see Toriel doesn't clean her oven with fire magic, nobody heals Rudy with healing magic, nobody is seen wielding energy weapons like Undyne's Spear or Asgore's Trident, and when Kris tried to look up guides on how to use magic, all he could find was books on magic tricks. If magic existed in this world, wouldn't Kris be able to find books discussing real magic, and not just magic tricks? It is interesting that the monsters take to wielding magic so easily in the Dark World, but I don't think that's a result of them already knowing about magic. I think they just assumed it was a quirk of the Dark World. Otherwise, why don't we see Noelle, Beardly, or Susie using magic in the Light World? Fair point regarding the Dead Monsters. I guess my theory regarding that is that, in UNDERTALE, Asgore ruled over all the monsters, and so when he called for bodies to be brought in, he was able to acquire bodies from all over monster society. By contrast, in DELTARUNE, the monsters are all living aboveground, and thus a lot of monsters probably don't live in the Hometown. A lot of them probably moved away to other cities. As such, if that's the case, then those other dead monsters would be buried in other cities. Or at least, that's how I would explain this if DELTARUNE was an alternate timeline. If DELTARUNE is an alternate universe, then it could just be that those monsters aren't dead in this timeline. Either way, thank you for bringing this to my attention. I definitely should have discussed this in the video. My bad. Gerson might not be a boss monster. The tortoise-theory is definitely a valid interpretation. Also, I realize now there was a mistake in my script. I could have sworn that Alvin mentioned Gerson having grandkids, but looking back now I realize he does not mention that. He says that Gerson had "children," implying that Father Alvin has siblings, but it doesn't outright confirm that Gerson had grandkids. That was a mistake on my part. Thank you for bringing that to my attention. I think the fact that Ice-E has a different catchphrase in UNDERTALE than he does in DELTARUNE proves that, wherever Sans got that word search from, it wasn't from the same reality as DELTARUNE. And while it is quite possible that Sans got it from another universe, it's also possible that this crossword just floated down from the human world. I had NO idea about this Alarm Clock thing! Thank you for bringing this to my attention! Wow! This was really fun to read. Thankfully my point about Rudy not being in UNDERTALE is still true, as he was only brought up in this Alarm Clock thing, and not in the main game. My main goal with that comparison was to point out the flaws in the "Asriel created UNDERTALE" theory. I always suspected that Rudy existed in UNDERTALE at some point. I just wasn't sure when he showed up, or when he died. So, thankfully, my point still stands, despite my ignorance of this Alarm Clock App. Thank you for this info though! Yeah, I accidentally called Jerry/Terry the wrong name. I only noticed my mistake after recording the video, so it was too late to fix it. I thought about pointing out my mistake in the video, but I figured nobody would notice. I was mistaken. xD You make some interesting points regarding the Holidays. The tricky part is that this Alarm Clock App is implied to have occurred some time after the events of UNDERTALE, and Asgore says Rudy's daughters "get to grow up in the sunlight," implying Noelle and December were still kids at the time of this Alarm App. He also isn't specific regarding when Rudy died. He just says "one day he fell down." For all we know, Rudy died just a short time before Frisk came to the underground. Or maybe Rudy was alive during the events of UNDERTALE, and the Alarm Clock App takes place several years later. It's possible that DELTARUNE Rudy managed to live longer thanks to not living underground, and having access to more advanced medical technology. Hard to say. Either way, I don't think this info disproves the alternate timeline theory. The info we have regarding UNDERTALE Rudy and his family is just vague enough that we can still make it work. Regardless, thank you for the lengthy comment and all the helpful info! I really appreciate it. x)

@@JaruJaruJ You're very welcome! I had a ton of unsheared thoughts on the topic, as I've genuinely not seen anyone else making a video on this except you, with most people assuming one of the two and not questioning it. I was happy to see an actual discussion about this, so I might have just spilled all my thoughts on it in that comment... Oops! Well, here are some of my responses to your responses: As for the magic, I can see your points. I'd consider it explicitly ambiguous, just as the line about how rules "might" be different. I, however, personally lean more so towards magic existing, just being replaced by technology, as I don't see Noelle particularly being the kind of person who, if she was a human in our world, would get into these things. Also, there is the fact that Toriel (Whom Ralsei has many parallels to), specifically explains it frisk in UT should be of note, as Ralsei seems to assume that Kris (Or player, depending which Ralsei theory one goes with), knows about it. So, as I said, I can see both, but I think magic going out of use is more likely, probably due to technological advancements. Remember, that Mettaton says robots are made out of Magic and metal. Gaster's machine (whether it's DT extractor or the core) also had to have been pretty magical if it was able to give him power to be aware of it being a game (Yes, I think since Jevil says "darker, yet darker", it's pretty much objective that Gaster is the mysterious figure who has driven him mad). Therefor, if on the surface monsters and humans live in somewhat harmony (probably separated, but not on war terms. There are human care books for monsters afterall), I think it's safe to assume that their electronic tech might have replaced magic. Tho, once again, I can see both possibilities being true. As for the dead monsters, yeah, I suppose they could have just been taken to Alphys from different areas of the underground. Or maybe be of different faiths, with separate cemeteries (I know Jews bury their dead separate from christian cemeteries, not sure about atheists and other religions tho). One nitpick tho, you sound as if you thought amalgamates were made from dead monsters? They weren't dead, just fallen. It's the term we learn in Snowdin books, True Lab logs and source code. Monsters in UT don't really get sick naturally (Implying Rudy's condition might be special, if that rule applies to DR). They only die when killed, injured, or of old age. In the latter case, an old monsters stops moving and is consider "Fallen". That's what many believe Beardly is in Snowgrave. Amalgamates were created from fallen monsters. That's also what Rudy experienced in UT, according to Asgore. Yeah, you're right about the different Ice-E catchphrase. Tho, I think it's important to note that it has a FUN event, with all other ones indeed relating to Gaster and timeline shenanigans, so there is likely more to this puzzle. It's only fitting for a FNaF reference to contain cryptic storytelling. Sorry if I misunderstood you about Terry. I thought you considered him to be Jerry, because you showed him as one of the "returning characters". You're right about that Noelle and Dess are actually implied to be young during UT itself. Had to have misremembered that one. Well, it's still interesting to note that, as Yellow soul's gun is an antique and Asgore has been the king before that point, Rudy would have then been extremely old in UT. He's even considered fallen, meaning he died of old age. I guess since he and Asgore both went to collage together, that means Reindeer monsters lives similarly long to Garson? Or I guess maybe Rudy is a Boss monster too and didn't have children for a long time... Either way, I suppose this part of the alarm clock debunks the idea of Asgore being the goat in opening of UT, huh? I suppose the horns are different anyways. Well, still Holidays and Dreemurs don't seem ancient in DT, so the question of how they can be of normal age in DT if it's a natural timeline stands. Also, one more thing that I forgot to talk about, I think it's important to note how DT might be hinting at some of its multiverse's nature through references to other video games? While I don't think these references by any means should be considered hard evidence, UT already used references to literature for it's mysteries (There is that one Asian novella referenced in royal guards fight, for example), a newer game, like DT, might use other video games. Tho perhaps that's just my bias to other ones and it's a stupid theory. I do admit this one is quite a stretch. Think about it, what are the most prominent video game references in DT? Starfox, with Beardly's dark world design clearly being inspired by Falco (I think there was a referance to wave dashing there, so, yeah...), Yoshi and therefor Mario, through two whole references to "The Lizard", with both Smash and either SMW, SMBW, or SMBU (2D platformer with ridable yoshis) and FNaF with Ice-E's and Purple Guy (maybe nightmare too, but that's weaker). There's others, but Beardly is a whole character, Ice-E is connected to FUN and The Lizard is mention two whooping times. Looking at these franchises, Both Mario and Starfox operate on static time travel, meaning that traveling back in time doesn't create a new timeline, but rather, happens through every run of the time continuum (At least that's how it is in Mario & Luigi: Partners in time. Not sure about Star Fox Adventure, but I have been told so). This means that the timeline split would not have been due to time travel. Then, FNaF has it's different universe - The original Novels (the new books are complicated now, so I'm just mentioning the original trilogy) - which are pretty important productions, as they were written by the main author, unlike something like Super Mario cartoons, or Star Fox manga. In FNaF, the two main universes work by being timelines.

No worries! I'm quite glad that my video managed to discuss something that nobody else had addressed yet. The magic in DELTARUNE is extremely fascinating, and there's a lot of small details and evidence to pour over. The video I'm most excited to make is my "What Happened to DELTARUNE's Magic?" video, so I hope I work up the energy to make that video someday. No worries, I get the difference between "Fallen Down" and dead. I just used the words interchangeably in this video since the distinction wasn't too important for the points I was making. You make a very good point regarding the FUN event. UNDERTALE Ice-E is weirdly mysterious. No worries about Terry/Jerry. It was indeed a mistake on my part. I think what's puzzling you about Rudy is that you're assuming that since Rudy and Asgore went to college together that they must be the same age, and I don't think that's the case. I think Asgore didn't go to college until a college was finally built in Hotland. Plenty of people go to college when they're older after all, and if Asgore is as ancient as I think he is, then he's probably been around since before colleges existed. Asgore even mentions that he was "There for it all. His youth. His marriage. His fatherhood." If Asgore was "there for it all," that would imply that he was alive before Rudy and was present for Rudy's entire life. This, in my opinion, implies that Asgore predates Rudy by quite a large margin. I think that's why they bring up that Rudy called Asgore "big man" his whole life. Asgore was his elder for as long as he knew him. Or at least, I think that's what's being implied here. The idea of an UNDERTALE/DELTARUNE multiverse is certainly an interesting one. There's certainly groundwork there if Toby wanted to go in that direction, although I think it's too early to say if that's what his end goal is. That said, I do actually have a small theory that might tie in to the idea of a multiverse. Remember how Ralsei's prophecy mentions "AT WORLDS' EDGE" in his prophecy? Well, it might be significant that Toby chose to use the word "worlds'". If he had used the word "world's," that would make sense, as there's only one world being discussed here: Earth. But, he used "worlds'," which is the plural form. This could imply that, whenever the prophecy passes, multiple worlds will be in danger. This might just be referring to the Light and Dark Worlds, but it could also be referring to Alternate Realities/Timelines. Just a little detail that I haven't seen many people discuss. I've thought about making a short video just discussing that one word from the prophecy, just because I found it so interesting. Regardless, you could totally use that as potential evidence for your multiverse theory if you wanted to. xD

@@JaruJaruJ Oh, that magic video sounds like a great idea! Good luck with it! You might be right about UT Rudy. I suppose he indeed is never referenced to as Asgore's peer. Tho Dreemurs still are a bit of a mystery in DT, since if I remember correctly, Rudy is outright confirmed to be Asgore's age there. But I guess it can be explained with Goats' particular aging. Perhaps monster lineages are consistent no matter the time child is made and some of Toriel and Asgore's ancestors could have lived longer and taken off some centuries from the current pair. I really like the idea of the Roaring being an outright type 3/4 multiversal thereat! Really interesting theory.

No, it's actually just another AU and there are many different ones.

You make some excellent observation! I've noticed a lot of what you just mentioned, and I have a pretty big theory regarding what happened to DETLARUNE's magic. I just hope I end up determined enough to make a video discussing my theory! xD

Magic technically exists everywhere, just it's easier for some people and some states then others and dependent on few things.

It's possible that magic was just weaker by the time of deltarune Humans have gotten overall weaker so magic could be weaker and weaker due to monsters not needing to fight and arnt in as hostile environment as in Undertale

There's also something else to think about... Why's kris the only human in town? Where did the other humans go?

Very interesting! I hadn't considered that. Man, there's so many interesting theories regarding the identity of the Knight! I love hearing them all. :D

Didn’t chapter two confirm that kris is the knight

@@darkmatter9643 knowing Toby, I think Kris opening the fountain is a red herring. One, it’s too early in the game for the knight’s identity to be revealed like that. Two, it seems WAY too obvious, people were guessing Kris is the knight even in chapter 1 because they’re literally a knight in the dark world, and the weird Chara-ish behavior. Way, way too obvious.

@@empiar5481 plus, Kris only opens a fountain after hearing Queen explain how the Knight opened portal and saying any Lightener can open a fountain with determination!

@@blakeprice8243 Furthermore, Kris couldn't have possibly opened the cyber world fountain because we were controlling them at the time. We know that the fountain was opened while Noel and Berdly were in the computer lab when the fountain opened because 1. They think that they are in a dream, and 2. Their books are already out on the table after the fountain was closed.

Yep! xD

@@JaruJaruJ a few points which you missed talking about determination is that it is required to open dark fountains which could be done by both monsters and humans and it is be easily to do and with less determination since berdley was about to do it and queen was trying to use noelle to do it and neither had any side effects associated with monster having to much determination but undye faced the consequences of having to much. also that determination is NOT being used to turn back time but a different power which has 3 save slots and can copy the save slots why would determination be used to open dark fountains but NOT be used in much more advanced uses of time travel ? i think that power of light/shining or what you want you call it shows that it may not be another timeline due to this...

Correct! You have rightly analyzed the situation! It's also possible that something really wacky is going on. Like maybe DELTARUNE is a video game in the world of UNDERTALE, for example. But assuming nothing crazy like that is happening, I agree with your assessment.

@@JaruJaruJ :)

@@JaruJaruJ There has been a theory going around that it's the other way around, that Undertale is a video game created by Asriel in the deltarune universe. It mostly stems from Asriel having files on his computer about a game concept he made as a little kid including a poorly drawn bit of artwork of a final boss with rainbow wings, an obvious reference to his boss fight. Definitely an interesting theory, even if I don't think that's the direction Toby is going to go.

Asriel lied to the player actually he still has the souls let me tell an example you have a power of something you use that power it wont fade away right? Plus before the special thanks you will see asriel getting in phase 1 saying "haha you think you are done? , i mean did you forget the special thanks" how the heck is the able to turn back to his infinite power and infinite defense form as he says he lost the souls and also he is already using phase 1 and he has infinite defense and atk before he says hes using a small fraction of his real power that you cant even check and before you go to the bed of flowers and find him he actually teleported there since nobody even saw him and when he was omega flowey before you get to spare him him or kill him he loses the souls and becomes to a normal flower in seconds and his true from is made of every monster soul in the underground when he shatters the barrier he uses them actually why wouldnt everyone die or dissapear so asriel is lying this is now confirmed

You could very well be right! We don't know exactly how the UNDERTALE/DELTARUNE multiverse works as of yet. Some fictions have endless alternate realities, but some fictions have finite quantities of alternate realities. So even if DELTARUNE is an alternate reality, it's hard to say what that means or how that works in the greater cosmology of this franchise.

@@JaruJaruJ Me and the boys discussing the shape of the Undertale multiverse (Its dog-shaped)

Very possible! If the Roaring happened before, that would definitely explain how Ralsei knows about it.

@@JaruJaruJ and it would also explain the room that Kris lands in the beginning of the dark world labeled "??????", which had the eye symbols around it that the Titans have on their (armor?)

Imagine if The Roaring is just turning the world of Deltarune into the World of Undertale.

Interesting. I did not know that! That said, we don't know if she's actually talking about what we would call an "Alternate Reality." It's possible she's actually referring to the Alternate Timelines, which it would make sense for her to study, as we know Alternate Timelines are all tied up with the Determination that she has dedicated most of her research to.

@@JaruJaruJ yes because there are really big differences between alternate realities, alternate universes and, alternate timelines, an example being the from marvel, The 9 realms are alternate dimensions but they all exist in the same universe, being universe 616, but in comparison the what if Marvel Zombies takes place in a completely different universe, and in Avengers 2012 and Endgame and the Loki series, when Loki escapes with the Tesseract that is a separate timeline from the original one when he’s taken to prison on Asgard, but they both take place in the MCU universe. I hope this explanation helps :)

That is definitely quite possible!

You make a fair point, but I think the evidence we have is too vague at this point to confirm it. In UNDERTALE both monsters and humans could generate at least some amount of Determination, and we don't know how much is needed to create a Dark Fountain. It's possible that even a small amount of Determination inside of a monster is sufficient. However, we also never see a monster create a Dark Fountain. Queen thinks a monster can, but she states herself that she was just guessing this would work based off what the Knight did. She had no idea about the Roaring or anything else, so I'm inclined to think she's not an authority on how Determination works or anything like that.

@JaruJaruJ than we have to keep in mind that *somebody* opened the fountain. But who? If we need a lot of determination than it had to have been a human and kris's is the only human in town. so unless either kris's opened the fountain or there's some hidden human in town, the night *must* be a monster. if that is the case that means either a: monsters have more determination in this timeline. Or b: you don't need a lot of determination to open a fountain.

@@thumbsup8985 True!

@@thumbsup8985 a crazy thing could also be that it's maybe either frisk or chara. We don't know where they are or of they eve exist. It seems kinda like kris is a combination of them but i think that wouldn't make too much sense

In Undertale, Asriel says he uses everyone's determination, including the monsters, to break the barrier, and Undyne staves off death all on her own, though of course she melts once she's killed again and very likely would have after killing you anyway, but monsters definitely have their own determination,. The thing was that it not only seemed insignificant compared to humans', but we also knew their bodies could not handle it properly one way or the other, so it's only really relevant in the sense that if one of them got absurdly determined, manually, let's say, then they could pull an Undyne, but now things are different... Was the not actually innate (well, kinda, it's probably only there as much as one is actually determined, I mean like, regardless of their soul, whereas humans appear to just have a bunch of it within their soul naturally) amount that monsters had enough to hypothetically make a Dark Fountain, though? I couldn't say... It'd make sense if no, but I also wouldn't call it a stretch if it could.

Thank you very much! I'm glad my video was thought provoking. x)

Time for one...alt time is just that, but another world entirely is very different in people living there and sometimes other things too.

Hey, that's not too bad! Thank you for the kind words! :D

Thank you very much! And I agree, Ralsei is a fascinating character. I have a pretty crazy theory regarding what he is, one that I haven't seen anyone else suggest yet, so I hope I get around to making that video! I'd love to share my thoughts with y'all! :D

@@JaruJaruJ Well, if you ever have the time to make that video I'm definitely gonna watch it! I love hearing theories about this litttle guy : D

Turning to stone MIGHT happen, it doesn't always happen

@@rosegacha8 why "might"? In the actual game they say that this will happen, not that it might happen.

I completley agree with you. There are even two points of evidence which would go completely against Deltarune being in an alternate timeline from Undertale. 1. Would be which you have already pointet out, that in Deltarune all Lightners (both humans and monsters) seem to inherently possess Determination, which in Undertale is not the case. While in Undertale both humans and monsters can use the power Determination, only humans inherent to it and it cans seriously mess a monster up if it uses too much of it, as seen with Undyne the Undying in Undertale's Genocide run. 2. Would be which JaruJaruJ has actually pointed out in his video that magic doesn't seem to exist in Deltarune's Light World, when in Undertale magic is something that definitley does exist. JaruJaruJ's definition of alternate universe/reality would be somethign I would describe as a "seperate universe/reality". I think alternate universes/realities generally have some similarities and connections to their original univeres/reality where as a seperate universe/reality would be as the name suggests completley seperate.

Thank you very much for the kind words and support! :D

Thank you very much! :D

Thanks man. Good to be back. x)

Thank you! The next video is going to be discussing when I think DELTARUNE takes place on the timeline, as well as answering the question of "Who is Kris?" But after THAT video I will be working on my "What Happened To DELTARUNE's Magic?" video, and I'm very excited for it! :D

It was my pleasure! Thank you for the kind words!

That theory has been suggested, and it's definitely interesting! I think there are a few issues, namely the lack of Darkners in the underground, but it would be interesting if it was true!

Thank you very much! I definitely will! :D

That would be quite interesting! I'd love for that to turn out to be the case. What it could mean, I have no idea.

@@JaruJaruJ I think it's better off that way. The longer the catchphrase, the harder it would be for the player to catch on too early. (It might end up being extremely on-the-nose. Imagine if the first few letters stand for, “Gaster is a…”) I'm also 100% convinced that Ice-E might have some relation to Dark Worlds, however. Their business looks way too shady.

Thank you very much for the kind words! I'm glad you enjoyed it! :D

My pleasure! I'm glad you enjoyed the video! :D

@@JaruJaruJ yeah no problem ^^ And I did UwU

Sure. Alternate Realities are very versatile in fiction. I'm simply going with Occam's Razor on this one: I assume that the simpler explanation is more probable. Saying "let's introduce a brand-new concept like Alternate Realities" isn't as simple as "let's use a concept we've already used before like Alternate Timelines." But that's just me. What's probable may not be what's true, naturally.

The narrator is just Toby (Bc there's no real consistency in narration style in Undertale, nor in Deltarune. A person on YT analyzed all the narration and has proof)

As did I! Thank you very much for the kind words! :D

Thanks man. Glad to be uploading again. x)

You have to remember, the cyber world is only in the library, how would it have access to something in Asriel's computer? It is most definitively Mtt's body, spamton even has a line about spantom EX, which is yet another thing related to Mtt

Agreed! xD

I just wish people would actually have more facts then theories and I see THIS is NOT a common thing to go directly to certain dimensions in person to have more in depth information.

I'm glad you liked it. x)

Thanks! I'm glad you're having a good time. x)

@@JaruJaruJ I am! seriously can't wait for the new chapters to release so I can't watch another video like this ^^

I couldn't agree more. x)

I couldn't agree more. x)

Thank you very much! I'm grateful to have received as much support as I have!

I'm glad you enjoyed! I tried to be thorough, since it's a complex topic. x)

@@JaruJaruJ yeah yeah! I’m still trying to finish the other three videos though lol

Would also explain why he does not leave the underground at the end of the game.

Thank you! :D

Thank you very much for the kind words! :D

I'm glad to hear. It's hard to work up the energy to make these things, especially given how long they run. But seeing people comment and have discussion makes it worth it. x)

@@JaruJaruJ BTW one small thing I want to ask. Under the definitions provided in this video of reality & timelines where would a parellel universe go under. Granted parellel universes themselves do alter in fiction. Some times they are universes with a shared history, and other times they will have fundimentally different histories but still have universal counterparts to people and rules making them parellel.

It really just depends on the fiction. Some series treat alternate timelines like they're parallel universes, while others treat alternate timelines as all existing in the same universe. For example, in UNDERTALE, when Frisk resets the timeline or Loads a Save File, they are switching between timelines. However, the game does not treat this as jumping to a parallel universe. It treats all the UNDERTALE timelines as existing in the same universe. Same with stuff like Back to the Future. By contrast, something like Doctor Who treats alternate timelines as being in a completely separate universe. When the Doctor travels through time, he's traveling up and down the same, singular timeline in a single universe. He can change the past, but it doesn't create a new timeline. It just alters the existing timeline. Terms like "parallel universe" are difficult to pin down due to them being a fictional concept. What it specifically means will vary from series to series.

@@JaruJaruJ I see, thanks for the response.

No problem! Thanks for the comments! x)

I mean the abilities literally sound like something he would have come up with when designing his game. The only problem with this theory is that the creation of the boss monster would have had to predate both DR and UT to exist in both timelines, and since Asriel must have been born after the timeline split, that's not plausible

@@ultravioletcatastrophe From my understanding of the lore, I'm not understanding what you're saying. Would you please elaborate?

@@bookswithbek2702 if the god of hyperdeath exists both in DR on Asriel's computer and in UT as manifested by Asriel, then it means that Asriel must have had the idea for it before the original timeline diverged into the UT and DR timelines. However since Asriel was born after the war started, and the war started on the UT timeline after the timeline split into two, there's no sensible explanation for how both versions of Asriel have the same idea since they are not branching versions of any "original timeline" Asriel

@@bookswithbek2702 the computer with the illustration and the whole game idea never existed in the UT timeline.

@@ultravioletcatastrophe Good point. But I don't agree. Have a nice day, though.

That is a fantastic theory my man! Super creative too!

@@JaruJaruJ thanks! I just love making theories for Toby's games!

We never did find out what all those piles of dust are in the first area did we

@@someoneyoudontknow3257 Broooooo

@@someoneyoudontknow3257 Just the souls of the innocent.

It's my pleasure! Thank you for the kind words! :D

My pleasure. x)

Those are some very good theories! I've actually written a script where I discuss what I think happened to DELTARUNE's magic, which I hope to make some day, and your theories are thinking along very similar lines to myself!

Another thing I've noticed that might apply to an alternative reality is the possibility of monsters being formed slightly differently. We know Sans is from somewhere different, and he's the only character that bleeds (unless it is ketchup-) before turning into dust off-screen. I doubt Sans is from Deltarune, however, it could be a hint towards other "worlds" having different rules.

@@brooklynmitchell8020 Quite possibly!

@@brooklynmitchell8020 we hear a character say to kris: "does it hurt when you bleed?" So i don't think monsters bleed

I think there still has to be magic around the world, because how else would monsters like napstablook exist?

Fair. It may be that Chara was referring to alternate realities. We don't really know for certain, of course, but I agree that it would make sense if that's what Chara was referring to. Then again, if Chara had moved on to another reality, then why do they notice the player hanging out in UNDERTALE after the Genocide run? If they were in a completely different reality, how and why would they notice that the player was hanging out in UNDERTALE wishing for the game to come back? Seems strange. The meta stuff regarding save files is interesting, but I feel like you could also explain the multiple save files as just being a result of the two games having different design philosophies. UNDERTALE was all about living with the consequences of your actions, and having multiple save files would undermine that. By contrast, DELTARUNE's theme is that your choices don't matter, and thus having multiple save files doesn't alter that your choices don't meaningfully change anything. Furthermore, having multiple save files makes exploring the game's secrets easier, so maybe Toby added that in order to improve upon UNDERTALE, where exploring different playthroughs was a much more tedious process. It could also be a meta-storytelling device, like you said, but there might be alternate interpretations as well. I should point out that while the Dark World has party fighting and a TP bar, the Light World seems to continue to use the standard UNDERTALE menus and UI. This could be implying that the two timelines share the same fundamental rules, and it's just Dark Worlds that have special attributes. Something to think about. Regardless, thank you very much for the lengthy comment and the kind words! I love seeing people's different interpretations of UNDERTALE and DELTARUNE, so feel free to ramble in my comment section whenever you please. x)

Thank you very much! I definitely intend to make more! And don't feel stupid! I could totally be wrong about Gerson. He may just be a variety of monster that lives a long time. Nothing wrong with thinking that. x)

Thank you very much. It's good to be back. x)

Indeed! I'm thinking along similar lines myself.

Sans possibly being Gaster blows my mind.

@@piccolofan24 Well thanks. 😊 Though that is just my interpretation of his original idea, since he has all the plot set-up in the world to be revealed as Gaster. But it's also possible there Toby changed his mind later in development or after release with updates. And that's fine too. Whatever he has in mind, I really hope he explores it to the fullest. :)

I'm glad! I'm getting far more support for this video than I ever expected! :D And yeah, you make a fair point regarding the humans forgetting about monsters and magic and such. However, humans live much shorter lives than monsters, and it seems like the monsters were sealed underground for potentially thousands of years. As such, it makes a decent amount of sense that humanity would forget all this. On the other hand, characters like Gerson and Asgore have been alive since the war, so it seems unlikely that they and the other long-lived monsters would just forget about magic. Especially considering how integral magic is to a monster's life and biology. Still, I see what you're saying, and the idea of the humans being sealed underground instead is rather interesting. As for the humans not being particularly numerous in the Hometown, it is odd. But I could also seem them making some random comment explaining it away. Maybe humans are still afraid of monsters, or maybe monsters chose to isolate themselves due to humans being so much more powerful than them. Hard to say. I'm sure we'll get some hint about this in future chapters though.

Yep, yep.

Thanks for the support!

That's a fair theory. I'm not entirely sure how Asriel creating NEO would make sense for either timeline, but I suppose that is a valid interpretation of all this. Maybe Asriel had a vision of the future and saw that Spamton NEO was the final boss (sometimes) in Chapter 2 of DELTARUNE. Certainly an interesting angle!

@@JaruJaruJ there is a very good reason for that but not in a more in depth very good....

Something I noticed is the fact that I'm Undertale monster souls are stated to necessarily have kindness and empathy unlike human souls in undertale, Susie at the begging of the game breaks this rule. Another thing is that monsters in Deltarune can have determination which is something that they couldn't do in Undertale

@@trappedcosmos I think monsters do have determination just not very much in undertale? Like they have souls but not very strong onrs

@@artemis_173 From what we know other than Undyne monsters have no determination

That's a totally fair interpretation! Reusing characters to establish familiarity is definitely a valid possibility. No doubt about that.

No worries! And that's a totally valid theory! x)

White Dog Gaster

Interesting. I hadn't heard anyone connect magic and Determination together before. The Royal Scientists in UNDERTALE seem to treat Determination as a new source of power, one that is specific to Souls, which inclines me to believe that magic and Determination are fundamentally different. The humans creating a barrier to trap the monsters seems to be a result of them using their Soul Power (Determination) to create that barrier. Hence why you need a Human soul to cross through the barrier, and why you need 7 human souls to destroy the barrier. Or at least, that's what I've assumed to be how it works. I do agree that monsters tend to manifest their own personality through their magic, but given that Asgore and Toriel both wield Fire magic in UNDERTALE, that inclines me to believe that magic is specific to your species of monster. Goat monsters use fire magic, Snowdrakes use ice magic, etc.. You bring up some great theories regarding how DELTARUNE's magic works! I have my own theory that I hope to make a video on, but I definitely think you're on the right track regarding how it all works. Also, I hadn't considered connecting "Falling Down" to the idea of monsters running out of Determination. That's an interesting interpretation! Thank you for the comment! :D

@@JaruJaruJ the main thing is the power of a monster soul is that its weak in comparison to a human in the undertale universe. as stated even as a human, you still need a monster soul to get pass it. the only ones that can exist long enough though are just boss monsters to even be used. and theres the case that it would take almost all the monsters souls in the underground to make one equal enough to break the barrier with the 6 human, which is what asriel did. also it just seams like the monsters in deltarune just have a bit more determenation across the board, probably from how there lives are better comparitivly. but that doesnt really have much eviadence for that other then susei and noelle can get knocked out well ralsie kinda isnt there as for magic being things like asgore and toriel using fire magic, i wouldnt be suprised is a affinity to fire, which is a for and semi agienst point. well asriel doest show any signs of fire magic, but more so plant as flowey(gee i wonder why a flower is plant based magic) and in his god form more star based like how the players is with the emtpy gun. alot of my thoerys does take a stance of things being a cause and effect of the same thing, well others ive seen being a seperate matter that isnt exactly clearly made from the games.

True, true. This being an artificial reality is also a possibility.

That would be an Alternate Reality, yes. Which it might be.

Thank you very much! :D

@@JaruJaruJ 😀

That makes sense!

Rick and Morty is primarily built on the concept of there being infinite Alternate Realities, which tends to blend the ideas of Alternate Timelines with Alternate Realities, as they allow for every possible timeline to exist in the form of Alternate Realities. That could be how it works in UNDERTALE/DELTARUNE, to be sure, but it could also be that this franchise is more akin to Dragon Ball, where there are a finite number of Alternate Realities, and thus you must use Alternate Timelines to reach slightly different iterations of your primary universes.

@@JaruJaruJ Maybe Rick and Morty wasn't the best example. But what I meant is that a Back to the Future-esque time traveler isn't necessarily required for an alternate timeline to exist. I fear that people would respond to the exclusive use of examples that do involve time travel and point out the lack of a human/player/flower to save and reload the human-monster war, but that doesn't necessarily eliminate the possibility of Deltarune being an alternate timeline.

Ah, I see. That's fair. And to be certain, I wasn't implying that a time traveler was involved in the creation of DELTARUNE. I almost certainly DON'T think there was a time traveler. I just think it's a naturally generated Alternate Timeline. Either way, you make a fair point!

That's a very interesting theory! I never considered the possibility that Gaster was erased from ALL timelines, not just the UNDERTALE timeline. Very interesting!

You are too kind! I'm glad you enjoyed the video. x)

Glad you enjoyed! And to be fair, I don't think there have been THAT many generations of monsters. It's implied that monsters live a lot longer than humans, which could mean that each generation lasts for centuries at a time. As such, a butterfly effect would have less impact on a monster society than a human one, I reckon. Either way, thank you for the comment and the kind words! x)

Very true! I am working off the assumption that no Omega Flowey or Mega God of Death or any similar entity is actively controlling/reshaping the timeline. If that is the case, then all bets are off and anything is possible.

@@JaruJaruJ when you think about it.., what I said actually parallels dark worlds too. Nested realities is an interesting concept.

I thought about using Loki as an example, but I hadn't watched it yet, so I didn't want to get anything wrong. xD

I did not know that about the quiz with Alphys prior to this video, so that's definitely an interesting detail. That said, given the context of her research into Determination, it could be argued that what she's referring to as "Alternate Realities" is actually the alternate timelines generated by wielders of Determination. It's also possible that this is just her being a nerd and her "research" is her watching anime. So, while definitely an interesting detail, it's far from hard proof of alternate realities, at least of the variety that I discussed in this video. And yeah, I slightly misremembered the specific order of events with Mettaton and Alphys. My bad. Either way, thank you for the comment. x)

@@JaruJaruJ sure! thanks for the video, it's an interesting topic.

@@hazepages My pleasure. x)