This was a great review, John. I'm a big fan of these video format reviews and I like the normal, music lover approach to the reviews vs. the pompous audiophile ones. The camera work helps keep me in touch, the lighting, your content coverage, music choice, all of it. These are the reasons I started following your coverage and the Darko DAC Index back in the day with the Lite DAC-83. Thanks a lot for this one and all the other owkr you do on the website.
Just going back and watching this as I have just purchased a DAC. Nice to see the music selection. I am fairly new to this and went to one of few dealers in Sri Lanka and he played me the Eagles. I did try but it did give me a headache.
Excellent review! I have had very poor luck returning a Chinese product back to China for repair and service. Shipping back to China is a nightmare, especially from the US. Yes, so many of our HiFi products and components are made in China, however there is usually always a distributor within the country you live for dealing with repair, service or operation issues. As good as their Terminator DAC is, it would be a no go for me at $4k++.
I can't believe I just watched a whole video of something I won't be buying. Your videos are great. I also added all your music into my iTunes library to see if I like them.
John so far one of my favorite videos of yours very professional I love the comparisons you really done it well thank you so much denafrips also have a $650 DAC Aries would love if you got your hands on that and told us about it I think it's very affordable at that place
I google Best DACs comparison test result on whatsbestforum.com and the Terminator is hi-fi best bang for bucks dac when comparing to other hi-end dacs.
I very much enjoy your video reviews as they are great help when trying to choose hifi equipment, especially as it is almost impossible to demo most of this stuff where I live in Ireland. I wanted to ask you if I may, if you had €7k to spend on a Streamer and DAC or One box solution out of all that you have tried, which would you choose purely in terms of Sonic ability for streaming Tidal?
Another excellent review. I was considering the PS Audio DAC, but not after watching this review. So glad I watched it. Clarity/resolution ("pulling apart") is as important to me as any other characteristic. I like to hear every detail as clearly as possible. How would you say Chord Electronics DACs (Hugo, Dave, etc.) compare to the Denafrips?
Mike Lautermilch , I have not heard ps audio dac but have had ps audio products. There customers service is first rate. Something to consider. I have a questyle dac. Excellent product, no problems. But if you need info. Lots of luck.
Impressive review, I just a bit surprised at backward tech not that a bad thing necessarily , I just sorta think there is a lot more solder joints but whose counting if the build quality is that good. As for the music choice these are formula miso as far I’m concerned . It is necessary to run a bit a Bach or Rachmaninov. As we need a perspective on true tonal quality.otherwise we run the risk of equipment becoming singular in its purpose to provide conditioning on certain type of music.
Based on your thoughts (and others'), I bought one of these. Amazing. Will you be reviewing the Primaluna EVO 100 tube DAC or the Lampi Amber3 anytime soon?
Great review, excellent prose!, would be great if you could share your impressions using the Terminator with the Hegel 590 and comparing the Terminator with the Internal DAC in the 590, love to hear the results...by the way excellent selection on music, i am enjoying those albums very much so far (Bill Callahan / Dream River), thanks for letting some of us to discover the good music among so much crap nowadays
Thank you. I love your website and your point of view. You've got style Bro. Thanks for the exceptional content. Hope you're having as much fun doing this stuff as as I've been having reading and watching your content these past two years.
HI John, I love your videos. My setup currently comprises of a DAC+ preamp SMSL M400 and audiolab 8300 mb monoblocks. My sources are TIDAL and cd transport. Should I add a preamp? Would there be a sonic improvement? I do not foresee me playing TT or additional analog sources for now.
Thank you for NOT apologizing for using modern "produced" music as your references! I do wish modern music was less compressed & higher fidelity, but most (near all) audiophile music is boring drivel...….
I disagree, to fully audition a component one should be using all types of music...there is no other way! There is also some beautiful classical and opera music if you open your mind or ears!
DSD is slightly preferred for me - somehow easier on the ear, more natural. Most Hi-Res is no better than Redbook, but some of it is better. If you want to test an audio component then orchestral is the way to go. You can easily have 100 + instruments - in a dozen or so groups.
I just bought the Denafrips Venus. I couldn't afford to go full Terminator. It would be nice to see and hear a comparison between the Terminator and the Venus. I have heard that the Venus is 70%, 80% and 90% of the Terminator. I'd be grateful to see a side by side to get the real info on that. I think that the Venus is pretty special. Thanks.
John Aiello hi john , I m also considering Venus. But my friend discourage me to buy. He say better buy holo spring 2 kte. My amp is dna Starlett ( warm side). Don’t know Venus will make to too warm. I don’t like the sound to be too warm. Would love to hear your thoughts. Thks.
Only comparison of the Terminator and Venus was by a term owner in Singapore whose friend has a Venus. Apparently, the sound performance is almost identical and the only difference is the term has more base slam.
Made in China? I wouldn’t have it in my home due to past experiences with a Shanling SACD player. Went through two in less than a year and no one would fix it.
Finally finally finally...…! I found someone who I can actually admire and listens to all day long. The type of music you listen and use to review all your products and of my interest, I'm just not a orchestra or opera guy either. John, I greatly appreciate your videos. Very genuine review content and awesome sense of speech. Now getting to DAC's, love this terminator the built quality looks awesome and sound quality I take your word for it, but I just can't afford it. You mentions some R2R DAC manufacturer's and one of them was Audio GD. They aren't as presentable as the Denafrips, but they fit my budget & value for money criteria. I'm actually looking into their R2R R8, and the other one I'm interested in (after watching your's and Hans reviews on Auralic products) is a used older generation Auralic vega for half the price. My source is mostly iTunes and a windows laptop, but have a plan to purchase a streamer once I save for it. Any help in making a decision would be highly appreciated. I just do not have enough money and experience to be able to take a decision myself and I do not trust the local dealers to help me either. Everywhere I go to, they talk me into how better is what they actually carry in the own store. That is the reason I mentioned you to be a genuine reviewer. Lets say I'm very much alike you when it comes to what I am looking for into my system, the kind of stage, transparency or base/treble quality I desire. Thanks in advance and looking forward to your new videos.
I have friend that has the Directstream ($5K+). I have a PS Audio III Cullen Mod Level 3 ($400). We decided to test them on an A/B comparison to not exceed 192 (PS Audio Digital Link Max upsampling) using Coax input and Balance Outputs. For our surprise, our ears could not detect any significant difference. At some points we agreed it even sound the same. Then if you don't listen to Hi Res music, it seems to not be worth going that expensive when you can shop around and get great performer for a fraction of these premium prices.
Good overview. Personally I would go with the PS Audio DAC. I find it is better overall ... with most music sources. I also like the fact that it is made in the US from a company that I know will service and support it if need be. I appreciate that you listen to "real" music. My whole goal with HiFi is to make the music I own sound the best that it possibly can. There is no reason to listen if its not the music I want to listen to. Thank you John.
Hi John, Have you heard about Audio GD's R7 GD R2R DAC? They also are from China and have a consumer direct sales model. www.audio-gd.com/R2R/R720/R720EN.htm ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-SIe7wH2Vgn8.html Thanks
Hello John, you have a lot of high-end DACs, wow! I bought Terminator 4 months ago based on internet reviews. I was frustrated with Terminator due to USB issues with my Sony HAP-Z1ES hard disk player (it trimmed the first few ms of every DSD beginning of track, same problem with foobar2k as well, problem still not solved until today). I don't have that issue when Oppo 205 was tested as an external DAC with Sony. Alvin said it's not really a big issue, but I bought hires DSD albums online so that's a big deal to me. Out of that frustration, I ordered Marantz SA-10 and it arrived 3 weeks later. Both Oppo 205 and Marantz SA-10 use XMOS USB interface unlike Amanero in Terminator. The SA-10 works perfectly with my Sony, even though I think the sound could be better with higher end streamer/hard disk player. But the sound from SA-10 is completely different class - much higher resolution, better vocal and instruments sound. John, you should get and review the SA-10. It's the last DAC I will need in my system. There's not enough reviews of Marantz SA-10.
Haven't heard the Denafrips but your review reinforces the greatness I hear coming from my 2020 Directstream though my ESL's. I paid much less than $4000. Too bad both were not reviewed with Buchardt S400's.
Gosh, that was really helpful. With my ARC DAC8, I’m getting upgrade fever. Unfortunately, I’m unable to triangulate and figure out whether the Denafrips or the PS Audio would represent a step forward for me. The ARC DAC8 is a good machine - never mind it’s age.
I feel tempted to try it out after your review (to challenge my Yggdrasil). Just one experience comes to my mind. After reading enthsiastic reviews of DCS Bartok, I got it for trial in my system. Initially I regreted I got it only for one day. I hoped for the holly gral (DAC+Preamp). Eventually it landed back in the box afterl less than 1 hour. Why? Because in my system it didn't sound better. Later on I bought Yggy (without having a chance to adition it) and it sounded better than Bartok. In my system. Most probably here as well saying that one is better than another is related to your system only. In my system thin sound of Yggy is a big advantage, because it is balanced by thikness of speakers/amps. The same may work for sound stage, etc. Most probably all 4 deliver sound refined enough so the most imoportant aspect is: which will fit my system best. Anyway it's very cool, you can compare all 4 directly - it's precious source of information. Thanks!
I think that sound quality has nothing to do with the kind of music you hear ... So, the DAC must be good for any kind of listener (any kind of music or sound).
so it's nt like you are getting a 10k DAC (or even $20k DAC according to some sources) for $4.5k. nope. it seems that you are getting what you are paying for. except. except if it shines with orchestral and/or opera and/or jazz etc. (what darko does not listen, not even for the sake of a review with 35000 views). Some say this dac beats msb analog dac. how can we know who is right and who is wrong. diminishing returns etc. with simpler music, one could argue you have less hurdles to overcome. a terza here and quarta there and that's it. we YT-ers will never know. we can either believe darko or 6moon. I saw dealers selling PS Audio Direct DAC the one selling for $5999) selling it for $2999, on agon, brand new units. It was not one unit nor short sale. It was like 2-3 or more months. Happened last year. which brings me to my original premise: all these DACs MSRPs are 50% ballooned to begin with, including this Terminator DAC.
Hi John, thank you for your review. The streamer that you use in this review is connected via I2S HDMI on this DAC, am I right ? I can't find any info on this new streamer from wyred 4 sound, even on their website : it has a roon core function ? they also sell the roon nucleus on this website and it seems that wyred 4 sound build it (same box, same aspect). Is the roon nucleus HDMI port a I2S port as well ? Thanks for your help John
Yes, HDMI i2S from streamer to DAC: wyred4sound.com/products/music-servers/ms And yes, it can run as Roon Core, as an endpoint or with passthrough from one to the other. It's next up in my review queue so let's chat about that when the video goes live in a week or two.
Should you use a streamer to play your own recordings? I’ve never had one but I suppose I’m streaming my tv to my dac via optical drive and it can sound pretty good if it’s been well mastered. I’ll tell my wife, gee this movie sounds great! Music, I just link to my Mac Mini.
Thanks for the review (and for the review on auralic aries g1 i have the aries femto and wish to upgrade ...but to the G2)...anyway a little disappointed you only use 16 bit files....the thing is just about all listeners prefer hi res mqa etc over 16 bit. (disclosure: im using terminator and am denafrips sales and support for australia.) but yeah thanks great review.
99% of the music I like is only released as Redbook. One could see this 16bit/44.1kHz material as providing a baseline performance that is relevant to ALL music tastes - and therefore ALL listeners - and not just those who listen to the select few titles that make it into the wild as hi-res.
John, I have a Musical Fidelity A308 24 bit upsampling CD player. Would it be worth just using that as a transport and introducing the DAC? I can’t find any info on how good the onboard dac is in the 308.
I recently purchased a Soekris 1541 r2r dac to go with my Harbeth HL5super 40th anniversary and it sounds amazing, far better in all areas than the Naim, chord cutest. Cambridge audio N51 and Lumin D2 i sent them all back but as soon as I heard The Soekris I realised that I’m happily not sending it back Amazing Dac for 1150 euros plus tax Highly recommended
The Aliens - Luna, heard this for the first time last night.... What a fantastic album. Seriously opened my world to a new genre. Thank you and great purposeful reviews.
just got ares - it seems to have the qualities of the 'termi' though presumably on a smaller scale. for price, imaging and pace are the star factors. 'ocd hifi guy' promises some mods!
What if you have both analogue and digital of the same signal from the same source. What can you do with that? The warmth of a source combined with the digital accuracy. Then you might be able to get the best quality with variability of your liking. Two loss functions like in machine learning. Maybe something for an opensource sound source (?card) and amplifier.
Doubt I will ever be able to have something like this but it's really beautifully made and you present it so well. I especially like when you mentioned the test music that is common with this hobby, you aimed to have your own personal taste represented with good quality files. Much of day to day listening and enjoyment. Much audiophile approved music gets a big pass for me.
Thank you for a great review. I’m a big fan of your channel. Could you please comment on dcs bartok vs the terminator. How close are those two DACS? Thank you
Have no fear John! They were lovely comparisons and this helps people figure out where they stand in what your listeners/viewers are thinking and asking for. So it is! It’s good to be the king! 😊👍🏻
Surprise! ! ! I bought it in the Amazon link in Canada. The sound of the Denafrips Terminator is amazing. It gave me a very good experience. The price of Denafrips product is more favorable, and the seller ship it really fast! You could apply for the VIP price from seller. The product link is : www.amazon.ca/Denafrips-Terminator-Full-Balanced-Regeneration-Silver/dp/B07XC6HGB3
Nice review John. What's a native R2R dac ? Is that with or without a FPGA to correct the tolerance of the ladder resistors ? Denafrips claims ultra precise resistors with a tolerance of 0,005% . Thats for 24 bits theoretical much to less. A correction by a trick like a FPGA or by our ears and brains ? ;-). Did you test the Denafrips in OS or NOS mode ?
This DAC sounds like it has a lot in common with my Metrum Acoustics Hex DAC. The majority of what I listen to comes from my CD rips & occasional HiRez downloads that I've placed on External Drives & play from my Auraliti PK100 Digital File Player. I DO spend a lot of time listening to Orchestral Recordings, but I'm also pretty particular as how well recorded & engineered the music was produced before I'll listen to any genre of recorded music !!! In short your observations about what you're listening for in your review resonates completely to what I appreciate when I listen to equipment ! (Even though most interesting "kit" is usually out of my price range these day, Thanks)
The Layout looked real nice and a lot of input options. But the 3,000 price point is not what I expect from my China Gear. I have stuff that you have reviewed in the past(Audi GD comes to mind) and his stuff is about as high as I would go. I am spoiled. If they are not paying return shipping or let you use their cost center, then it will cost you your first born, and arm and a leg, to ship back. I'm just a working guy but IF i have a 2000.00 DAC it's only because I got it used for $1200 tops. My Current DAC (All the rage) GUSTARD DAC-X20 PRO Very well reviewed and the best DAC i ever had as a working guy without 3 to 5 g for a DAC This replaced the Bryston BDA 1 which I bought used. It was so much better than the Bryston that that BDA1 was on Ebay before God got the news. Also where will D to A be in 3 yrs ? Nice review but a little pricey for a DAC From China.
John, have you listened to the Aesthetix Romulus (or Pandora) Eclipse DAC? Putting price aside, does either the Denafrips or the Aesthetix DAC stand out? Is one or the other a clear winner over the other? Which one would you rather live with?
all great DACs, but do they really beat the Hugo 2 or even the Hugo 1 for that matter.... especially if taking into consideration the cost... not sure. Most "good" DACs sound more alike than different. Nuances of tonality... very difficult to discern unless direct ABing them.
As Darko pointed out in this video taken in isolation the Schiit DAC sounded great. For me it’s about enjoying the music and as long as there are no glaring deficiencies I’m happy especially given the limits of diminishing returns. Last year I auditioned the $55k Sennheiser Orpheus tube DAC headphone combo. Compared to my more modest $2k DAC and $4k headphone system I was expecting to be blown away but wasn’t. In the one song where I found the greatest differentiation the Sennheiser certainly sounded more refined and there was greater separation of individual parts but I had to listen very intently and even then I had to consider that I was listening to a different digital source file from what I have. I left feeling less impressed than I originally thought I’d be and content with what I currently had.
Interesting video, this is probably the state of the art at the moment. I haven't had a chance to listen to such DAC:s, but for us with a lower budget there are two considerations that stands out: If using any kind of PC based source, use balanced for the analog parts of the chain. PC leaks RF, a lot. Part two, have enough power, if it is speakers or cans most of any congestion/distorsion comes from insufficient power for the load somewhere in the chain. So, balanced cables, lots of power, it will probably sound quite good with plenty of gear. Of course, those machines in the review probably sounds even better, but if it sounds good enough to follow ALL of the music taking place it's simply good enough. A lot of gear isn't , the most common cause, a part of the chain is being underpowered and the soundstage becomes congested/collapsed. Reading static THD figures tells almost nothing.
John, great review but let me ask you about a product that you are intimately familiar with by comparison and that would be the Chord Dave vs the Denifrips? I have met the distributor for the US at Axpona, it’s OCD Hifi guy, who has his own channel and has talked about the Denifrips at length, good guy. His website is Mike Powell Audio, he is out of Atlanta, Georgia.
Great review! If you can coax Denafrips into sending you one, seeing a review of their affordable model like the R-013, in relations/perspective to this, would be very interesting.
You do not like them. So you say. Try them! Try them! And you may. Try them and you may, I say. --Sam I Am Lumping all of classical music and jazz into a category of "traditional audiophile music" that facilitates "high brow critique" is lame. Loving classical and Jazz has nothing to do with being an audiophile special effects loser that can only listen to Diana Krall. Moreover, while I like and listen to the music you listed, narrowly restricting your listening experience may limit informative the review is. For example, when you talk about "density" are you experiencing something that would translate to the density of an orchestra? Would something that sounds dense on studio mixes of few instruments sound too dense for the other 900 or so years of written-down music? What about the ability of a component to reproduce the space, i.e., the whole sound, of un-amplified instruments playing? And the different spaces (concert halls, churches, clubs)? I'm not talking about soundstage. I'm talking about the tonality of unamped instruments in different rooms. So maybe try some Mahler or some Miles. You don't even have to like it or focus on it. It may just tell you something different about the gear you are reviewing--after all, you are publishing an expert opinion on the subjective sound of stereo equipment. I know my system would be different if I only listened to "modern day, relatable music" Maybe rather than telling music lovers with broader taste that we've come to wrong place you could throw us a bone. I wouldn't be saying this if I didn't think your work gave us "music first" folks a unique source of information. I also promise that it won't make you less cool.
Hey Max. Agreed, loving classical and jazz has nothing to do with being an audiophile, but being an audiophile seems to be strongly correlated with classical and jazz and very much NOT modern music. Attending any audio show (with a couple notable exceptions) or audiophile society meets will tell you this. As for unamplified instruments, their 900 year old scores, recorded in churches and halls, I have no idea. My opinion is only useful within the context of the music I listen to. I cannot be all things to all people and there just aren't enough hours in the week to do all that I want to do, let alone indulge in the sport of bone throwing. I'm talking to people whose musical tastes align with my own. Without these (self-imposed) constraints, my work would lose focus. Such are the benefits of knowing how I work best and being self-employed. And I say this knowing that the majority of the audio press already serves jazz and classical lovers very, very well. Why not ask Stereophile, whose knowledge and understanding of Mahler and Miles is FAR better than mine could ever be, to step up their video game?
@@DarkoAudio We agree way more than not--what I'm talking about is on the margins of assessing a system. I value your input on gear because I trust that you are listening for music and not a collection of sounds (and because you are the first person that actually made it clear to me wtf a roon endpoint is). Part of the reason I stopped going to hifi shows is because I find it really hard to get into any system based on music I don't really like...and I don't really like Diana Krall or Vanessa Fernandez (back when I started going, every room was playing Famous Blue Raincoat at ear splitting levels) I don't hold it against others if that is what they like and I don't dislike it just because it is audiophile approved. Small point: classical can also be modern music--or maybe the right distinction is "contemporary". It can also be relatable regardless of its age. I think the key to getting people engaged in classical is not having a snooty, exclusionary attitude. Keep the output coming--much loved on my end.
Great video as always - I was hoping the chord qutest would have been compared as I was thinking of getting this with an allo signature for a streaming solution
Since both were reviewed by JD, can a comparison be done between the Denafrips Terminator and the Aurelic Vega 2? What are the sound differences using the same system? Essentially which is better?
@@DarkoAudio Apologies. I saw your 28.5 video but it was not a review only a short interview. Did you by any chance intend to do A deeper review on the Vega 2. I personally would be happy grateful as I am debating between the Terminator and the Vega 2 as. Dac solution.
BUTTTTT... who the heck knows the reliability, service, support of an unknown Chinese company who may or may not be in business in 2-3yrs. I would NOT spend $4K on a Chinese product, regardless of how well built. I rather get a used PSAudio or La Scala for the same price and be worry free!
Ive owned the Denafrips Pontus for 3 years ($1600 USD) with absolutely no problems. Usually run in DSD and no oversampling. Besides, Denafrips now has a North American service centre. I will eventually move up to the Terminator. Beautiful sound and quality. Also, other well known manufacturers such as YBA (France) and Classe (Canada) now manufacture in China anyway.
