Design in cascades of harvest- Cold Hardy Food Forest update 

To take this even a bit further... if you think you aren't eating buggy food, you are wrong. There are bugs on everything we eat. There are mites that live in our eyelashes. We just can't see them. So even if you see a tiny bug and actually eat the thing, the only difference is that this one particular bug is large enough for you to see it. You ate hundreds more organisms that are microscopic. And without them, you literally cannot survive. Some of those blackberries in the bag have fruit fly larvae in them. I know they do. It's impossible that they don't. And half the food we all eat has them also. I do often give the bug damage fruit to the dogs, but I eat a lot of it myself. The only thing I cut out and remove is the insect frass (basically their poop). I also do wash any trees that birds enjoy, because eating bird poop can actually make you quite sick. But most of the fruit I eat, I don't even wash it, I just eat it straight off the plant. I want all that microbiology in my digestive tract.

@@CanadianPermacultureLegacy you wash the trees? :O

@@MartinaSchoppe LOL eep, I meant the "fruit from trees" HAHA

@@CanadianPermacultureLegacy phu, I was trying to figure out how and why one would wash a tree :D :D :D

Cheers bud

You've got that right!

I'm excited for you! Welcome to the family.

I basically just brushed them off and put them on a cookie sheet and put that in in freezer. Then put them in a freezer bag the next day.

We mostly use them for pesto and soup. We actually grow so many more than we use, we need to be better at using it all!

Lol so true.

I don't use any fertilizers, not even organic. I don't think it's necessary. Fertilizers are a short term vision. The better strategy is to focus on growing soil with chop and drop, deep mulch, and planting lots of plants (the more plants you have, the more root exudates you have). Maximize those solar panels. The ladybugs also just found my land. I planted tons and tons of wildflowers (see a video called "herbaceous layer" of the pond) for a list of what I planted. They just showed up, along with many other beautiful creatures like green lacewings.

I got mine from a nursery that unfortunately went out of business during covid :(

My sister in law does, she lives right behind me. There is another apiary down the road from us also.

No spraying at all. I've never even done a copper spray for peach leaf curl. For your questions, yes most fruit trees need full sun. It's not like it's binary though, they'll still produce a little in more shade, but as the shade gets deeper and deeper then at some point the tree just doesn't fruit anymore at all. For the variety question, yes it's always good to have multiple varieties so you have a blended blooming time and they can all find someone to pollinate them. Note that there are some very specific species issues that can happen with some plants. Kiwi are a good example of this, and only Arguta kiwi can pollinate arguta kiwi (just as an example).

From my experience, that is a complete wives-tale, born out of an article that was put out on the apple orchard industry which stated that 1 in 10000 apple seedling will give a good commercially viable fruit. Then people just kept repeating that while never actually planting trees, testing fruit, etc. We have to be really careful what stuff we tell people, when we've never tried doing it ourselves. The reason I'm saying this is that, of all fruit trees, apples are the worst for this, because there's such incredible variety due to the fact that humans have basically been seed saving and planting apples for thousands and thousands of years. Any plant that humans do this to will have large genetic diversity, because all the great great great grandparent genes are in there still, and certain traits can re-appear generations later. Cattle are similar, because we've bred them so far from the ancestral cow. But even for apples (!!!) this is completely false. Sure, it's TECHNICALLY true that it's 1 in 10,000 to get a new named variety apple that is "commercially viable". That's because a commercially viable apple has to be at least ranked 9/10 in every single category: Taste, appearance, size, storage, and shipping (resistance to bruising). So an apple that is 10/10 in taste, 10/10 in size, 10/10 in storage, 10/10 in appearance, but bruises really really easily (5/10 in shipping), is a "failure". But as long as you aren't shipping that apple, then it's literally the best apple on the planet. Similarly it could be 10/10 in everything, but it's only 6/10 in size, and that apple is "garbage". However a homeowner just simply collects more of them. They are maybe only 3 inches in diameter, but they are AMAZING apples. But that apple would count in the 9999 failures statistic. And I can tell you from my experience... I've been planting trees for almost 7 years now, spreading every single seed around, in neighbourhoods, forests, schoolyards, abandoned parking lots, etc. Many of my trees are fruiting now. Most of the ones that are fruiting now are apples, because that's mostly what I started with, and I can tell you that even for apples, that's a complete and utter lie for all intents and purposes. It's completely false. Sure, people are probably still better off getting a named variety. I mean, why not, if they are available and they are 10/10 for almost every category. Why take the chance, especially if you are space-limited. But the seedling fruit are definitely not bad. Many people think that they will be like a 4/10, or worse, almost garbage. Meanwhile the truth is that they'll probably be on average 8/10s, and will still be amazing and delicious fruit.

@@CanadianPermacultureLegacy In all due respect I need to ask what experience you have had. To clarify I didn't say 1 in 1000. I only had one experience with peaches many years ago. My Grandfather grew a peach from a pit out of a very nice peach in the 50s. He nurtured it along until the mid 60s. The tree was healthy and the fruit was huge but sour and like a rock. Not edible at all. I have nurtured wild apples on the property I live for 38 years. Seeded years prior I assume dropped by folks or birds. Some have edible fruit but not fine quality. Again I ask what experience you have had? If you haven't had experience perhaps you will share some science that supports your claim. I'm just trying to save some neophyte from following bad advice tossed out easily on the net.

Well, I'm only one data point, I will definitely admit that. I have been planting trees from seed for about 7 years now. I typically do roughly 10k or more per year. I do guerilla planting all over my town and a few counties around me. There are many trees that are now producing from those first few years. I'm not sure if you have seen my video called "no land, no problem", but check that one out to get an idea of what I do each fall. Just based on my experience, almost every single apple has redeeming qualities about it. All are from a handful of trees that used to be part of an orchard but have since gone feral. In the first few years I I the seed from apples at a horse farm, and now I get them from my apples here. Some are definitely more sour and could be considered only cider apples, or for vinegar, but I would estimate that's only about 10% of them, probably less. The vast majority of them are great apples. Some may be small, some may be tart, but like I said in my first reply, most are solid 8/10 in many categories. Now for peaches, I have a bunch of seedlings that I've planted (definitely over a thousand), but none have given fruit yet, so I can't speak for those. From what I've read though, apples have much higher genetic variance than peaches. The reason for my first reply was that so many people think that you'll get garbage fruit from seedlings, and I just think that's extremely (!!!) over exaggerated. I don't have decades of experience doing this, but I do have almost one decade, and a good solid hundred thousand trees I've planted (of which at least a few thousand have borne fruit). I haven't tasted all of them obviously, but enough to form a pretty solid opinion.

@@CanadianPermacultureLegacy As I said it's fine to experiment if you have time and lots of space. I do plenty experimenting in my garden and forest but for the average gardener it is wiser to buy grafted fruit or cloned fruit / nuts trees/vines. (I'm not a nursery nor will I profit from this advice) Nursery bought varieties will give you a predictable result. You know what you will be getting and you will get fruit in a much shorter time frame. The problem with growing most fruiting plants from seed are based on the laws of inheritance. Most are open pollinated and you have no idea where the pollen came from and even if self pollenated the offspring will rarely be the same as the parent. Science beats a "solid opinion" every time.

@@CanadianPermacultureLegacy I did have a look at your video "no land, no problem". I was disappointed that you didn't show some of the "few thousand trees you had planted which had borne fruit in seven years." I do agree that wild apples are fun. You never know what you will bite into. Some are better than any commercial apple and some make you gag. At 70 years of age I still can't resist climbing a fence into an old abandoned pasture to gamble and bite into a wild apple. It's especially humorous to think that at one time, perhaps a hundred years ago, the seed of that apple tree was travelling though the digestive system of some bovine guerilla tree planter.

This is honestly such a great comment.

The headstrong and stubborn child grows into an adult who forges his/her own path in the world and maybe makes positive changes. Don't smash the behavior, direct it. If you have an easy to manage child, they might become an easy to control adult...and there are people who will be happy to take control. Thanks for your comment!!

Kire, that is exactly what I'm always telling my wife about our middle son Ben. He is our little firecracker. Questions us at every turn. It can be frustrating as a parent when you are telling him he needs to do something, but its a personality trait that I want to foster, not squelch.

@@CanadianPermacultureLegacy You are wise. Good luck with your son. It's tiring when they are young, but inspiring when they are older. "Yep, that's my son!" is such a great feeling when they do something FANTASTIC. "But where did he get the confidence to try that?" Well, we didn't beat it out of him as a kid to start with!!!

I think it's a good idea of a video to actually get into this in detail.

Wonderful story! Yes, balance is hardest to achieve at the top of the food chain, because it means having predators that also may enjoy a tasty human, or one of our pets now and then. Farmers hunt wolves here, and I completely understand why, but it also creates so many balance problems with stuff like deer, who then destroy forests and crops and create further imbalance.

Thanks! I'd opt seabuckthorn that way, and after picking one plant of elderberries and coming in with purple fingers, I definitely will do it that way from now on!

AMAZING! Doing the triple crown is on my bucket list.

@@CanadianPermacultureLegacy Also: The topic was quite clear from the title of those videos. If somebody is not interested (like me) they can skip the video. I HAVE unsubbed more than one channel that was unexpectatly (is that a word?) and repeatedly shoving bibles into my face in the middle of some video about something completely unrelated. Of course YTubers can post whatever they want to, but pleeeeease give people a way to skip things that might trigger (politics, religion) - just make it clear in the title and all is good :) Thanx for "listening" to my little "I don't wanna be proselyted" rant :D

Haha, all upfront costs. I feel terrible but I have THREE deep freezers now. I keep picking them up off the side of the road. Most people throw them out because they "don't work" anymore, but that is almost always because of a crack in the body, and an air leak. Often the compressors are completely fine. So a little sealant and you have a working deep freezer. I feel bad because of the energy cost, but I have to keep reminding myself that I'm saving money with all the food in there (plus the gas to go buy it at the store). Overall I know it's a massive savings in energy (current food production is only about 1/20th efficient... i.e. 20 calories of energy go into making 1 calorie of food). So having multiple deep freezers sounds expensive, but it's actually a hidden passive income stream (via saved money).

Of all the pests I have, these are by far the most numerous. That being said, they don't really do that much damage. They'll eat some leaves, but they haven't killed a plant yet. I think the bigger problem is that nothing really likes to eat them here. I'm all for having insects eat my plants, as long as they then feed some greater lifeform in the chain of life, and my food forest benefits more from the higher lifeform's presence. That's what balance is all about. But for these guys, since they are invasive and non-native, the food chain isn't set up for them. So, what do I do about them? Nothing really, my food forest is too big and my time is too finite. I'm just barely keeping my head above water with everything else going on - and their impact isn't big enough for me to care yet. I've had them for a few years now, and this year is the worst, but they still aren't THAT bad. And they aren't tunneling into my fruit, which I would care a lot more about. Some people say that planting yellow geraniums helps. Apparently they like the color yellow. They are also very clumsy, and if they fall into a deep flower they can actually get stuck in there and die. Some other people say to get a bucket of soapy water and manually collect them and put them in the bucket to drown.

Our last batch is available, but you'd want to get them like, today. They are already fully ripe, so you would want to process them today or tomorrow. If you make the drive out here, you can have them. Shoot me an email to permaculturelegacy@gmail.com if you are interested in coming and I'll give you our address.

@@CanadianPermacultureLegacy Email sent ☺️

Thanks for coming! Was nice to meet you.

@@CanadianPermacultureLegacy Was great to meet you too and see the food forest! I got lots of peaches canned to enjoy over winter and am excited to plant all the peach pits that will one day be trees in our own food forest 😊

Thanks!

You know the kitchen table shot? That is actually already sold, and I got a lot more than that for it. And the frozen fruit represents at least 3x as many peaches as is on the counter.

Reliance, Contender and Frost are my favorites. We just got some Red Star peaches this year and those are great too.

@@CanadianPermacultureLegacy Thanks! I just planted a Reliance this year. I have a Harrow Beauty that is fruiting but I don't care for it because the skin is tough and astringent so thinking I may try to graft onto it to replace the Harrow Beauty branches with something more desirable.

Cheers

You are right. But also in nature a place like that is covered in wasps and fruit flies - which are all part of nature, sure - but we don't want that 20 feet from our front door.

I appreciate the feedback. I just want to be clear that nobody really said anything bad about the algonquin videos... well okay one guy said he unsubbed because he didn't come here to watch camping. I fully understand that people will do that no matter what I make. I don't really care about that - because I really can't control it. I just wanted to get ahead of the curve and just mention to people that I'll still be pumping out just as many gardening videos as I always would have... you just also get bonus hiking videos also. I think putting out the odd non-gardening video is fine, but I don't want to put 3 hiking videos in a row (I have a LOT of footage), because that may actually peeve people.

@@CanadianPermacultureLegacy I sub only if I like the person as a whole, not just for content that season, life is more diverse than that. I understand "those" people, but I don't like them. And it sucks for creators that have to have multiple channels to cast a wider net.

Yeah, I also need to think of maximizing my own enjoyment making videos so that I don't burn out, and want to just go back to a quieter more recluse and easy lifestyle. I just finished editing part 2 of Algonquin last night, and I have to say it is my favorite video I've ever done. Probably mostly because the family is all in it. And in the end, I should probably make about $20 (what I make on avg for each video) for putting together a family trip video. That's not bad lol. Advertisers are paying me to make home movies.

That's a great philosophy. Your abundance could be it's food. This particular pest is a bit of an oddball though, because I find that nothing wants to eat it. I think they stink or something. It's the one pest that if thrown into the pond the fish completely ignore.

I would if I ever made it before, but I haven't. I only like to talk about things I know - I really dislike when people make videos about stuff they've never done before. Now... I would think that it's as simple as inoculating woodchips then letting them sit for a very very long time, but I actually have no idea.

WOW! That sounds awesome. The oyster mushroom feast especially.

Your new property sounds beautiful. All the best with working with it.

Welcome back!

You are quick! lol

@@CanadianPermacultureLegacy *currently unemployed, I am CURRENTLY UNEMPLOYED 😂 (By choice, it's all good)

The fruit trees are on my chicken moving circuit. I’m surrounded by apple orchards that spray so will try almost anything to break the pest cycles without eradicating the predators in a natural way. I’ve noticed a huge decline in pests since including chickens in my management.

I really want chickens, but Trish wants no part of them. I've been working on her. 4 years now, no progress, but I have hope LOL. For the mushroom compost, I think of any compost you would buy it's probably the safest. Of course that implies it wasn't harvested from an apple orchard that sprays the crap out of their trees, or from a forest that was just sprayed to kill ash borer, etc. Honestly, some of those "mistakes" you can make can take YEARS to play out, so I really try to avoid bringing in inputs that I don't 100% know the origins of. I actually think I have one deadzone in my garden from a load of horse manure that I brought in when I first started. 3 years later and I still can't get anything to grow there.

Maybe you could “borrow” some short term to do some work in your gardens and food forest. In an enclosed chicken tractor. Trisha would get to experience them without making a commitment, a stress and pressure free way to be exposed to chicken keeping.

@@CanadianPermacultureLegacy Is Trish scared of roosters? If you have Mr Aggressive, try and catch him. Pin him to the ground with one hand and peck on the neck with the other hand to say that you are big boss and he needs to learn his place. If the smell is the problem, use a deep litter base of woodchIps, grass clippings and biochar to the chicken pen as a biological diaper. Have a 45cm wall (sheet metal) to keep the chicken droppings and bedding contained to control flies. If sacrificing them is a problem the halal method of having them held on the ground is less traumatic and they don't choke by being upside down. Some countries like Sweden require that you have an electrical stunner. If it's because you like having the freedom to go off camping, traveling and generally being absent, you need to have someone prepared to take the responsibility of looking after the chickens. If you don't have this person, I'd forget about having live stock.

Ann thanks for all the suggestions. I have definitely all those on my radar. I will still need time to convince her. I'm hoping that watching her sister have her chickens will warm her up to the idea.

Now that's a good plan if I've ever heard one!

Hey FYI for some reason youtube deleted your comment with the timestamps. I have no idea why.

This list won't be exhaustive, but off the top of my head for perennials we grow Onions (Egyptian Walking onions), Jerusalem Artichokes, Asparagus, Good King Henry, Sorrel, Bloody Dock, Sweet Flag, Watercress, Purselane, and others. For annuals, potatoes, tomatoes, carrots, beets, all kinds of squash, peas, beans, kale, lettuces, peppers, ground cherries, okra, etc. It really depends on the year. Often I get seeds for Christmas presents, and I plant whatever I'm gifted, plus whatever seeds I saved for the year.

@@CanadianPermacultureLegacy That's just terrific. If you have the time I'm sure I'm not alone in wanting to see how you integrate all of those brilliant veg. into your Abundance Forest!

There is more food hiding in the food forest... Young spring linden, birch, apple and mulberry leaves are edible. I prefer them boiled, finally cut and then added to dishes. Dandelions, wood sorrel and clover flowers give a salad a kick. Grapes leaves make great dolmuses. Carrot tops add flavour to stews. Pumpkin leaves, tips and flower petals are edible. Lots of mushrooms.

Thanks Cheryl! It's so neat to connect with people from all over :)

You aren't kidding. Last year these went from stone to mush in like 2 days.

Thanks for the tip! Definitely a great idea.

Gaia's Garden was definitely the one I would suggest. I also think "Growing your soil" is a really good one. It's not directly about small scale permaculture, but it's all about soil, and that's important for any garden. I'm sure others may have some great suggestions for small scale gardening books - I just am not really in that situation so I've never pulled a book like that out, in a specific sense.

I don't know if they are cruicial but I liked Creating a forest garden" by Martin Crawford, "Food not lawns" by Heather Jo Flores, "The Food Forest Handbook" by Darrell Frey for "how to". For the "what to plant" I loved everything from Martin Crawford (he has books about trees, shrubs and perennial vegetables), and "Around the world in 80 plants" by Stephen Barstow (mainly perennial vergetables), and one by Eric Toensmeier about perennial veggies - can't remember the exact name of the top of my head. Also LOOOOOVED his "Paradise Lot" book.

It's not bad actually, roughly $600 for the year. When you compare that to the cost of maintaining a swimming pool, it's peanuts. We did also put in solar this year. The cost for THIS pond was definitely substantial though. It came in just north of $200k. This is something I've been saving my entire life for. Now, that being said, I consider it an investment, and I suspect I will get my money back one day if I ever sold this place. Heck, subscribers have already emailed and offered to buy it off me if I ever sold. Food Forest plus this pond here, I'm sure it will just be a matter of finding the right buyer who values these things. So I'm not sure, but I have a feeling this pond will be "free", since I should get it all back in the end. As far as yearly electrical costs, once the fish get up and running, a single large koi can go for over $1k. Smaller ones for a $100. I'm hoping they start breeding and I can use them to offset the yearly cost to run the pumps (I.e. pay off the solar investment faster).

@@CanadianPermacultureLegacy Is that two hundred thousand dollars for the pond? That’s a lot 😳

@@CanadianPermacultureLegacy I hope $ETH or $LINK helped pay for at least some of that 200k ;)

Yes very expensive. It could have been cheaper with different rock, but I really wanted this look.

Yes I grow annuals as well. I have an annual bed in the backyard. I definitely focus more on the perennials though. Even my annual bed has perennial greens in it such as bloody dock, good king Henry and sorrel. I'm all about that low effort high reward gardening, and you really get there with perennials. However, there's just nothing that compares to tomatoes, peppers zucchini, etc. You can see a bit of it here" ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-C07V6wBVyjA.html, but if you really focus on annuals, a very good channel for that is Gardening in the North. She focuses almost entirely on annuals and she's amazing.