I will say, from everything I’ve heard about squad tactics, including if most of your riflemen are running ARs, and one dude is running an AK, for your buddies to carry one AK mag just in case. While I have no personal experience, with this, I can’t help but think that with a designated shotgunner, that would be even more important. I know there’s these Velcro shell holders that can hold like 25 shells. Maybe if one of your buddies has some free real estate on his plates, he might be willing to put it on his back or something and you could top off from that? I have something similar on my scabbard for my Shockwave. Using the scabbard itself to host the ammo for the firearm stored inside. As well as James Reeves’ “tactical Fanny pack” which is just a pouch of loose buckshot that he puts to good use in his burn down videos. Idk, it’s just another trade off. More power shot for shot than almost any other fire arm, but also the capacity to carry less.
After reading this (I am and always have been a dirty civilian with unhindered access to FM and MCWP documents), I've appropriated this into me and my buddies SOP. One of my homies only runs AKs, usually in 5.56 for compatibility, so we all started carrying at least 1 or 2 extra 5.56 AK magazines. We all run the same patrol bags, Mystery Ranch ASAP or Blackjack 50. Has made our lives heavier but easier.
One guy with a AK in the squad how ridiculous he better sort his commie loving ass with a PSA or something... btw a 200 round SAW pouch will hold 50 shotgun shells, or 7 thirty round STANAG mags.
In perfect world it would be nice for your buddies to carry your extra ammo. This idea would not always be practical. I carry extra ammo of all 3 types in my backpack. Mostly 00 buck but also some slugs and birdshot. Why birdshot? It may not kill but is good for suppression. And then of course for anti drone work.
US use of the combat shotgun actually pre-dates the first World War. The US first issued shotguns to soldiers in 1900 during the Philippine-American War. They were issued again during the Pancho Villa expedition in 1916/1917.
@Souwth-bawston-is-fuh-luvahs weren't the germans complaining of us using shotguns right after ww1 because they were too brutal? Or am I thinking of something else?
Trained with the 870 in the army. Loading and shooting is a different beast. Especially on the move. Takes more practice. Because of the slower and smaller load/fire rate, I strongly believe transition training to a second weapon(pistol) is essential. I always taught my troops that if you’re not shooting it, you’re loading it.
@@bushboi absolutely, a mag change for, let’s say 8-10 rounds in a few seconds versus same round count individually…perhaps 10-12 seconds. That’s a LONG time in a firefight.
@@grumpyolesilverback7211 But most mag fed shotguns aren’t very reliable and having a jam is even worse than a longer reload, if it’s not something like a light strike it’s gonna take longer to clear.
@@Tree457 feed problems are usually type of shells being used. Just got to get to know your gun and what it likes to eat. Everyone has their preference, go with what you know and what you trust. Look at the SCAR. Good system, accurate and simple to use. Picky about ammo though.
Retired Army here, I own a MKA1919 the manual of arms is very similar to the AR just much larger. 10round magazines are much faster. That being said it's harder to keep up with magazines. The 870s magazine can't be dropped and lost in a hurry at night.
I’ve found a 200 round SAW pouch with the detachable dump lid to be the best shell pouch I’ve used so far. (The dump lid is just 2 flat pieces of elastic that overlap slightly in the center and you can shove your hand in to grab shells easily, but it keeps the shells from falling out) It’s definitely bulkier than shell cards and you would need make room on your belt. It carries a lot though! 🤘🏻
I use an old gas mask pouch with a Velcro lid on my belt. I think it might be a little lower profile than your saw pouch. But I like your idea. That sounds good with the elastic covers.
"Only takes one mistake" is accurate. Story time! Been doing bushcraft and stuff as long as I can remember. I'm 37 and don't remember a time where I didn't have access to a knife or axe or tomahawk or something sharp. That said, at age 35 I misplaced 2 fingers due to a half second mistake. Seriously kiddos, one moment can screw with you for a lifetime!
I remember training with a 12 gauge shotgun (a Remington 870) in the corrections academy. They taught us the two shot technique, firing from the shoulder to firing from the hip(it was a little strange for a first timer because of the placement of the feet, one shot and the recoil knocked everyone back a little). One instructor demonstrated a rapid fire technique. Great information and demonstration.
I was the shotgunner/breacher on my SWAT team (many years ago). The shotgun was and still is an intregal part of an entry team. We used frangible rounds to breach. Im still a shotgunner at heart.
Great video. I grew up on shotguns, even though I love shooting my AR's, shotguns are just a while different level of fun. I have a rig set up for shotgun, I like the shotgun cards, but I still have the metal side saddle. I'm realizing the benefits of the cards vs the permanent saddle. I also keep my 870 as my HD gun of choice, some people think shotguns suck, but that's their opinion. There's definitely no doubt in the power of a 12 gauge, especially when it's recommended by the Alaskan fish and game department for bear protection.
I've been using a Gunner Solutions EZ8 caddy on my belt for speed reloads and double loads, and I like the Head On Tactical shell pouch for admin loads. The Head On Tactical pouch is really nice because it's two short flapped pouches that hold ten shells each, plus there are four elastic shell loops on the front for some extra rounds. For on the chest I've gotten away from detachable cards and I switched to Russian knockoffs of the SOE shell pouch instead. My opinion is that I don't want to waste time switching shell cards, but if I tuck the stock into my side and turn the gun I can reload 95% as fast from the chest rig/plate carrier. The pouch itself consists of two velcro cards attached to an open top pouch. Both are tethered to the pouch; one sits on the front and the other sits inside the pouch. Once the front one is empty you rip it off and it falls off, but you don't lose it because it's attached to the bottom of the pouch. Then you pull the second one out from the inside and it drops right onto the front to replace the first one. Three of them fit on a MOLLE placard and will work as a micro rig or on the front of a plate carrier for a total of 36 shells. I like side saddles but I prefer hard saddles like what Mesa makes. I find all detachable velcro saddles lose their elasticity and shells always slip down and either fall out when they're brass-down, or if they're brass-up they still slip and the rim gets caught in the elastic. I don't want my emergency speed reloads falling out or getting stuck when I need it. The Mesa side saddle is really tight, but I've never lost a shell from one. I see shotguns as the civilian's submachine gun. They're able to put a lot of lead down range, with the added ability to be used as a breaching round. It's also one of the more common weapons in the world, and you might not always have access to a semi auto rifle with detachable mags, depending on how laws change or where you live. It's worth getting one and learning to use it.
Trench, great video. Before ammo cards were the thing, we loaded our dump pouch with the shells. The dump pouch flap had a hand size cut to reach in and grab two shells to load yet preventing the loss of shells when moving. With practice, it too is fast. Using a LBE type system or chest rig attached to the pistol belt helps carry the load and allows for prone work. Shotguns are best paired with riflemen…indeed. A shotguner surrounded by rifleman walks calmly with a swagger. I keep my gun clean, no attachments, and a dump pouch with shoulder strap next to the gun for housework, so to speak. Slings…single point is best, but traditional sling works too. Nonetheless, shotguns for defense/tactical work need a sling.
Absolutely agree . Rifleman first. Shotgunner helps with things. I have a single point for this shotgun but took it off for video because of mic and I’m a noob
@@trench_grenade Hey Trench, I'm kind of a newb so I am sorry if this is a stupid question. Is wearing all those shotgun rounds on your chest a liability? I mean to say if someone shoots your vest, are the rounds liable to explode right in your face and torso?
@@BrockNessMonster1991 no sir, I have family members so I do not place lights on weapons at home. Personal choice. I use a low light on hat that sits next to my bed or on my head. As a SRT member, I used a weapon light because that situation dictated its need. Again, personal choice.
Thank you for being blunt in this block of instruction; to include the possibility of a slam-fire. This former infantryman appreciates that. Strike Hold!
shotguns are one of if not THE most versatile weapon out there. not counting the novelty loads, like dragons breath and flachettes and so on. but theres low brass birdshot, all the various shot sizes. then theres the higher brass. and all the various loads of buck shot. thene the many slugs and the buck and slug. i think that shotguns are gonna be crucial in future combat, not just in the traditional shotgun role, but also in the additional drone warfare that we are and will be seeing in future combat. shotguns are critical for a breaching team. and are just badass weapons. i was a shotgunner in my first group. i started my civilian training as a shotgunner
I use a Mossberg 500 , with a 18 inch barrel , I love it , killed a lot of deer with it , works for me , been shooting like that for a lot of years , rest video . You have a 7 rd. Tube I will make this video a must see when I train my grandkids. I have a grandson that was with the 3rd herd , as a mortarman , I'm sure he could ad some hidsight to this , thank you. When you fire a shotgun gun down range , with 00buck , you are putting 45rds. Down range faster and cover just as much area as a fully auto M16 a1 , you cannot use up 1and 1/2 full mags , as fast as you can 5 rds. Of 00 buck. I myself , I use coyote rds.
overall good info put your info on armour is kinda funny, 00 buck from a 12g at muzzle will have the same average energy as .308 winchester 150gr ,but spread over a wider surface area. with each individual pellet only carrying about 280 ft/lbs of energy individually. someone wearing NIJ certified lvl3 lvl4 would be fine.
Exactly, Newtown's law of equivalent force or something. For every action there is an equal opposite action. In order for a shotgun to fire enough force to cave a chest in from sheer blunt trauma, it would also have to break your shoulder or wrists shooting it. If shooting buck shot is just a push in your shoulder then it's just a push to their plate.
@MALICEM12 right, but not all the force from the bullet gets transfered to the gun when firing, otherwise the bullet would have no force left to leave the gun. think instead if the bullet never leaves the gun, for instance, a squib load. the gun will explode. thats definitely enough force to break someones chest, but with slugs not buckshot
Great video. Subscribed this morning after watching. Went and did some testing at the range with my rem 870. Did the shoot 2 load 2 and the top loading of different rounds without looking. Then when I did run dry, I'd practice switching to sidearm. I'd like to see you do some cqb tips with the 870.
Shot cards are handy, but when you’re running, you might lose some shells with the rim downward. I’ve coated the interior of my elastic loops with carpet glue that you can get from most home supply stores. Once dried, it’ll hold your shells snugly,
Pausing at 9:45 to ask: Were you issued a Remy or do you prefer it? I find that, especially with that SGA stock, I prefer a Mossberg to a Remington. Mossbergs only have a single holding tab for the rounds, making them easier to extract manually. They also have a screwed-on ejector as opposed to the Remi's riveted-in ejector, making them user-serviceable. Another question, what's your take on auto shotguns for a DSG? If you question the reliability, then I would pose the same question, but with a dual-mode shotgun such as a Benelli M3. Box mag or Tube mag is up to you to assume/talk about.
A Fanny pack works great for carrying extra ammo, you can put it on even when you are wearing your normal battle belt, or for home defense you can put it on with pajamas ect
Great video. I really appreciate you starting with the four principles. Don’t see that enough on gun videos/channels. One thing I think you didn’t talk about that I’d like to see/hear is round count. Counting down or however you do it or counting up but having the frame of mind knowing the round count and knowing how many you need to reload. Great video I look forward to watching your content!
I keep a Maverick 88 with an 18.5" barrel and folding stock strapped to my pack, and carry an AR as a primary. The maverick is super lightweight, and with the tube and chamber loaded and 5 more strapped to the stock, plus the 20 or do rounds I keep in my pack, it's a very versatile weapon. 00 buck is great as far out as 50-75 yards, depending on the gunner and the load.
@@trench_grenade oh, I've seen some of the old timers make shots with buck that far. They're usually using full length barrels, and a choke though. I prefer an 18.5 for the mobility. A good underfolding stock and point shooting makes a huge difference in close quarters, too. I've found just keeping your non dominant index finger extended on the pump, and pointing at whatever you want to hit gets you close enough. Even a shoulder or a leg hit with 00 buck is devastating. Getting hit in the pelvic area is deadly. I'll definitely check the vid out, though. Thanks for the heads up.
Great video!Nice inputs! I think that at 100 yards you should aim at shoulder height to hit the target. I discover that the best rig to carry shotgun rounds is SOE Micro 12 gauge rig and the COP rig. You can carry 24 to 36 rounds. Add a general-purpose pouch or a SAW pouch on your belt and you can carry another 50 rounds easily.
I love my shotguns I’ve got a Turkish benelli clone and my all time favorite the Keltec KSG set up with a breacher muzzle device and bayonet spikes, a foregrip, with a Romeo 5.
Lots of good stuff in there, keep them coming! Just one small note: a hard body armor, such as ceramic or steel can distribute the force of the impact on a large enough area to save the wearer, provided none of the pellets hit the unprotected parts. Think about it this way: when you shoot the gun, the shotgun itself will accelerate backwards and the shots will accelerate forward with practically the same amount of kinetic energy. The energy of the shotgun is transferred to your body through the stock (which is a relatively large area compared to a shotgun pellet), without causing any permanent damage. When the pellets hit hard body armor, they will transfer about the same amount of kinetic energy to the armor plate that was transferred to your shoulder when the gun was fired (minus the energy lost in flight due to drag). The surface area of the plates is even larger than the end of the stock, so the force of the impact will be distributed on an even larger area. The wearer would probably feel like someone kicked him in the chest, but wouldn't suffer permanent damage. Now if we look at slugs against soft body armor... yeah, a few broken ribs would be the least of your worries.
Outstanding video, I actually learned A LOT. Haven’t seen one out there on this topic and I haven’t thought about a designated Shotty. Didn’t know they aren’t drop safe! Also didn’t know to aim for the waist at 100m! I also completely forgot about the tabs to unload the tube! What do you think about shorty rounds and employing them? Also what do you think about employing a pistol grip shotty (to minimize size) with a sling to push it out, realistic or stupid? Also do you just have velcro slapped on the side of your receiver or is that a rig for the receiver shingle? Great idea! Thanks!
Blue Jean Operator also did a video on a shotgun as an anti-drone device when using birdshot for small-to-medium quadcopters. Another important duty for a shotgunner is to carry heavy duty bird shot loads and maybe an extra long barrel for bird hunting. Also, it is important to be able to protect your shells from reflecting the sun and to prevent it from getting dirty (especially if trench warfare may be a concern). So velcro shotgun cards on the front of the plate carrier are probably only viable in street/indoor operations.
Yes and no, from a civilians stand point, we aren't going into trench warfare. The nice thing about the Velcro cards are that they are cheap to replace, the permanent side saddles will wear out eventually and when they do, that's not an easy swap or replacement as that requires some disassembly. Obviously high quality side saddles will last a long time, and I think the solid ones have its benefits as well.
Why the long barrel for birds? I do skeet shooting with my 18.5" occasionally and do fine, muzzle velocity is negligible in shotguns between lengths aswell
@@MityLite Barrel length does indeed make a difference, there's a reason why shotguns typically have long barrels and it's not for a long sight picture. My 870 with it's bird barrel can keep bird shot and buckshot in tighter groups with the same choke compared to my 18.5" smooth bore barrel and my 18.5" barrel accepts chokes.
Subbed. Really dig the concept of having a designated shotgunner in a squad. Never know when you'll need to do a shotgun breach on a door... or a trench full of dudes.
Great video man, just subscribed. I look forward to seeing you hit 10k or maybe even 100k subs down the road. And I'll be here for the Journey. From one fellow Gun nut to another.
11:25 he said (regardless of the armor he’s dead) that’s a lie level 3 hard armor will not deform form that shot and that was doesn’t make into skin let alone through most combat fabrics. Everyone should probably unsubscribe from this guy bad info. Bad info.
the BFD kill is a myth. part of armor rating is how deep BFD is, if your armor is rated for shotguns (which is damn near anything on the market) you will be fine. is it not better to carry a shorty shotgun only for breaching and a rifle as your primary? that seems to be the way basically everyone does it when they have the opportunity to. and i haven't seen any ukrainians running around with shotguns in the trenches.
If you literally only need it for breaching then yes make it into a key to the city version (check local laws Obv) if u are gunna run a rifle then it’s still good to have a designated Breacher with lots of ammo spread across team due to weight
@@trench_grenadewell yeah but thats soft armor not rated for 00 buck lol, big difference between soft armor and level 3 or 4 plates which are rated for .308 and AP 30.06 respectively, which have much more penetrating power than 00 buck which are balls and traveling far slower, meaning they have much less effective penetration.
Here here. I love my rifles, but my shotguns are my go to long arms for the home. #1Buck 24 pellet magnums. Anyone that complains about those recoil needs to train more. I shoot those from my TAC14 and Shockwave no problem, all day long with rifle blade notch and post sights aimed
Pumps are nice too because you can get down a lot of the dynamics outside of recoil management with dummy rounds. Get enough to load the shotgun and your shotgun card and practice at home anytime you have the time.
@frankcastle8028 Dummy rounds are a small investment and they really pay off. You can video yourself on your phone and improve times and techniques. Shotgun loading skills deteriorate fast if you don't get some practice in
Good stuff, thanks man. I have an 870 marine magnum but am thinking about switching over to a Benelli m4. What’re your thoughts for a semi-auto vs a pump for a tactical application? Thanks
My retinas detached so my 870 is my go to gun now. I have bought up a bunch of the Winchester 00 buck with green shells and black brass. S&B is a great round too.
I came back to this video to say they are now using shotguns in the trenches of Ukraine, some or mostly pumps, because of the mud a dirt for reliability... After a year of fighting they started using them not only are they super effective for close range, like the best they're also using them to take down drones, that are dropping little bombs and grenades on them, so they have a dual purpose now and they are the king of trench warfare and close combat proven war time and time again. One of America's oldest style guns the scatter Gat is Back Jack!
As a 38year old with a Colt 6940 and mix master m4gery as my only ARs...I'm slightly offended...1st pick for Alaska would be my Galil Ace 762N but I would feel OK with the 6940 with 70 grain TSX
@@tidypog3272 I think the video will be primarily discussing why even when wearing body armor a shotgun will destroy you due to spread of pellets/ slug choice etc
I'm an AR guy, I set my stuff up for 7.62x51 so that I can run 5.56, 7.62x39 and 7.62x51 along with shotgun. I would also run extra mags or shotgun cards in my backpack. But personally I'm not exactly a fan off carrying extra mags for someone else. If I'm carrying extra mags, they're for me, personally everyone carried their own stuff. With that being said, if someone needs a mag I can toss them a mag. But if you've got everyone carrying an AR and one guy with an AK.... It's time for an intervention. That AK guy needs to get converted, but I feel like it's a good idea for everyone to have an AR, an AK and some type of shotgun. Also if you've got one guy who's the designated shotgun guy obviously he's gonna have a shotgun and he needs to have a way of carrying more shells. A large GP or Dump Pouch is a good way to go. Also it's better to have everyone with the same pistol, especially the shotgun guy. Because the one thing that I've learned is shotguns are always empty, and you're constantly reloading them. So it's a good idea to have a pistol.
I've got an arborist ditty bag on my saddle that has an elastic band to keep it somewhat closed but i can reach in and grab stuff without any messing around. Id say it would be decent for carrying a lot of shells and acessing them fast james reeves style
First video I've seen of yours. Very informative. My Spidey senses tell me you were at least some sort of instructor in the USMC, most likely a knowledge hat from experience with them
@@trench_grenade 11B? I was 11C. The only time I ever used a shotgun was when there was guard duty at some ammunition supply area. And that was using a normal Winchester pump. No extended mag tube. And issued three shell only. I always wondered why bother carrying any gun at all.
Love the video. Shotguns are criminally underrated. If you have funds, consider a quality semi automatic. No pumping required is easier to run and gets fight-stopping hits faster. Transitioning to slugs is somewhat more difficult though.
Where in hell did you get trained to shoot two load two? Very bad and dangerous advice. You shoot until the threat is gone. Or until tie seek cover to reload. I don’t mean empty your gun but use judgment and do what fits. You give terrible advice
Load when you can. If you shoot one, load one if you can. Note, if you can. If you are in a active engagement, then you run it till it’s empty, then transition to the pistol. At that point you should be moving to cover to reload.
With practice, use the recoil to begin the cycling of the action…don’t squeeze the trigger and then cycle, but squeeze/pump simultaneously…yeah, with practical training and discipline for sure
@@scottedwards3403 wait, you mean to tell me that movie actors are incapable of learning how to distinguish live ammo from blanks? I know they are stupid but not that stupid
@@Airmanmx1 more so was joking about your comment of following basic gun safety and not pointing a firearm at others, kinda hard to do that when you’re supposed to point a firearm at a camera and pull the trigger. That being said though, the armorer is the main culprit of responsibility imo, and with him being a producer… he had a hand in hiring the armorer
@@trench_grenade yeah and it’s dark outside for most of the 24 hours where I’m at. Also a stream light weighs like nothing. What if you run into a building w the lights off? The ‘real world’ gets dark very fast. That’s why I train for the real world. I run the exact kit you have here so don’t tell me I don’t know what that all feels like. Cringe logic
@@trench_grenade At least it's still in the family. I'm glad I found your channel. Hand guns are a no go for me in Canada ( except for antiques). I also like S&B: the price is reasonable and the recoil is mild.
for a smooth bore shotgun the slugs have the rifling built into them to get the twist for a rifles barrel shotgun you shoot sabot slugs that lock into the rifling for your twist... thankyou for your hard work... New Hampshire shooter
Good review and use on a great platform. Its my favorite after growing up hunting/shooting. etc. Being an old guy and doing what is now called a mil contractor for years worldwide as well as a 30 yr police career mainly in special units and SERT team I carried a Mossy 500 as a contractor and now at home/comp and an 870 on the force (as well as the Benelli). I like them all definitely train with them. I like a tough red dot for poa/poi but practice with the bead sight at waist level as Trench pointed out here. Shoot from prone, sitting, standing and disadvantaged positions. The tactical loads are nice as they lessen the kick. When low shooting under cars, etc, it does not take long for a sore shoulder. Practice using both sides and single hand manipulation, again, both hands. A shotgun is an amazing weapon putting a lot down range but as said, it is a hungry beast. It pays to get practice non firing ammo to practice good reloads from different ways, stoppages and transition to your handgun. I did this for many years but like nearly every skill-it is perishable. Keep training. Stay safe my friends.
