Designing Crossovers and Measurements / Listening

John Heisz - Speakers and Audio Projects

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I started with a rough 2nd order crossover at 3500Hz and refined it from there. My first measurement showed a bit of peaking in the midwoofer response around 3800Hz, so I changed the filter on that driver to a 3rd order and lowered it to around 3000Hz. I then adjusted the 2nd order filter on the tweeter to that lower frequency and arrived at a pretty good response. I may do some more fine adjustments, but this is a very good start.
I also tried a first order crossover on both just to see how that looks. Again, it let in a bit too much of the peaking in the midwoofer response, so I ruled it out.
As for how it sounds, it's early yet, but I'd say it's very good. The midrange sounds clear and smooth and blends seamlessly with the tweeter. Lower midrange sounds full and neutal. I played a couple of songs (in mono) that I'm very familiar with to judge. Unfortunately, I can't record those in a published video, since that would be copyright infringement.
Next step is to make the solid wood baffles for both speakers and that will be the subject of the next video.
This is part 2 in my series on designing making a pair of open baffle 2-way speakers to use as "surround" speakers in my listening room.
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Опубликовано:

11 сен 2024

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Комментарии : 31

@IBuildIt Год назад

Lost? Don't know what I'm talking about in this video? Watch the first video on this project: ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-PxXVceRLZrc.html I started with a rough 2nd order crossover at 3500Hz and refined it from there. My first measurement showed a bit of peaking in the midwoofer response around 3800Hz, so I changed the filter on that driver to a 3rd order and lowered it to around 3000Hz. I then adjusted the 2nd order filter on the tweeter to that lower frequency and arrived at a pretty good response. I may do some more fine adjustments, but this is a very good start. I also tried a first order crossover on both just to see how that looks. Again, it let in a bit too much of the peaking in the midwoofer response, so I ruled it out. As for how it sounds, it's early yet, but I'd say it's very good. The midrange sounds clear and smooth and blends seamlessly with the tweeter. Lower midrange sounds full and neutal. I played a couple of songs (in mono) that I'm very familiar with to judge. Unfortunately, I can't record those in a published video, since that would be copyright infringement. Next step is to make the solid wood baffles for both speakers and that will be the subject of the next video.

@michaeltablet8577 Год назад

Another great build! Thanks for sharing your gifts with us! Love all your channels.

@mndlessdrwer Год назад

Glad to see more people discovering the lovely dual ring radiator tweeter design. They're one of my absolute favorite tweeter designs out there, though there are some challenges to using them, namely finding a midrange driver that suits their extraordinary sound diffusion.

@AmmoDude 4 месяца назад

On two ways, I start with a poly cap on the tweeter and an air core inductor on the woofer and go from there. I find 2.5K or less works well with a two way, usually settling around 2K. Sometimes the woofer needs a zobel filter, sometimes the tweeter needs a resistor or two to take the harshness out. All done by ear. People that hear/buy my "creations" cannot believe the sound I can achieve from 6 1/2", 8" or 10" woofer and dome tweeter. My position is less is more, I never have to go past a 2nd order xover on a 2-way system. Neither does JBL, Klipsch, AR, Polk, and many others....AR was famous for using only one cap on the tweeter, woofer full range. My JBL 4312 Control Monitors run the woofer full range, no components on the woofer at all.

@NeilBlanchard Год назад

I like dual ring tweeters - and they typically have a nice low Fs. So the crossover could be much lower - like around 2kHz. This would avoid the breakup mode on the woofer. And something I have done to design crossovers that is quick and very flexible - use a miniDSP 2x4 HD and separate amp channels for each driver. You can quickly change the crossover points on each driver and the slopes, as well as the type of filter. No soldering and you are not limited by the values of parts that you have on hand.

@IBuildIt Год назад

I have a minidsp 4x10. It's being used as the crossovers for my main speakers and infinite baffle subwoofers. You might want to check through my recent videos to get a better idea about what I've got going on. I also have a Behringer CX3400 that I could have used to model the crossover. Instead I did it old school and just used the parts I have on hand. I'd say the results are much better than acceptable. BTW, that peaking in the midwoofer isn't breakup. Breakup for that driver is much higher.

@NeilBlanchard Год назад

@@IBuildIt What ever the cause of that woofer peak is, the Fs of the tweeter is what - 440Hz or 600Hz? The crossover could easily be 2KHz or lower, and this would let a 2nd order woofer crossover be much smoother, and keep the DCR lower, as well. The dispersion of the speaker would be much wider by using the tweeter lower, and keep the woofer in its wider dispersion region, as well.

@IBuildIt Год назад

Scanspeak specs the tweeter's recommended range from 2500Hz and up. I'm crossing around 3KHz. I actually tried a lower crossover point but didn't include it in the video. The results were not as smooth as I settled on. As for off-axis response, this speaker should be quite good. But since I'm using them in a special application, great off axis response is not at all a design requirement. In fact they would work better for me if they were more directional.

@strongchallenger2269 Год назад

Wish I have the knowledge like you do. I love your video. So educational. ♥️👍🙏

@isaeagle4031 Год назад

Cone breakup. Another way to mitigate that is with a tank filter. A .33uf cap with a 3 ohm resistor in series and the combo in parallel with the inductor. The resistor is necessary to keep the impedance safe above 20khz.

@dennismiller5725 Год назад

Very nice, great project!

@mrpres17 Год назад

I'm surprised you didn't recess the tweeter. There was a video I saw once where tests were done on recessed vs non recessed tweeters and the data showed that the tweeters measured much better when flush with the baffle

@IBuildIt Год назад

I made a video doing just that - comparing recessed to flush mount. That's why I did the tape and foam, to show whether diffraction (that's fixed by recessing the drivers) is the cause of the ripples. I knew there would be people saying I should have recessed it.

@pablohrrg8677 Год назад

@@IBuildIt If I'm not wrong recessing the tweeter do phase align it with the mid-woofer. It also allowes you to build a horn to deal with diffraction. The absorption on the front face of the baffle also deals with the diffraction

@IBuildIt Год назад

Test baffle, guys. Test - you understand test, right? Testing isn't finished work. Diffraction is mostly BS and not something I'm concerned with, so no, I didn't bother recessing the drivers. I'll do that on the real speaker because that WILL be finished work. I AM concerned with the crossover and how the width of the baffle would effect the response and that's what I'm testing. And try to keep in mind that I know a thing or two about this stuff and didn't start doing it last week.

@FOH3663 Год назад

@@pablohrrg8677 Recessing the tweeter for phase alignment? Be mindful, even up at 1khz, the wavelengths are over a foot long ... so 1/8" doesn’t help much with phase alignment with the other driver. A smooth physical transition to diminish potential diffraction effects is the factor at play, not phase alignment.

@weeverob 7 месяцев назад

John, can you recommend any books on designing and building crossovers for people who know nothing about them. do you think active crossovers are the direction they will be going in speaker design in the future? tx!

@amdenis Год назад

It’s a dip at 5K that you needed to solve for, more than the peak at 3.5K , since it is at 2.5K as well, and is twice as wide there.

@snoopyboobs 11 месяцев назад

typically the most important piece of foam or 3/4" felt which I prefer is between tweeter and woofer. David Ralph has extensive test's of this on his speaker pages.

@IBuildIt 11 месяцев назад

Tests that involve measurements can be misleading. Everything that's measurable may not be audible, so unless the measurements are backed up with blind listening tests, they are not of much use. For example the foam or felt is meant to stop diffraction, but there haven't been any definitive tests that prove that diffraction is audible while listening to music. This being audio and so heavily nerdified, you'd think there would be several if the problem was actually audible.

@danielesbordone1871 Год назад

Very nice speakers , maybe a crossover point of 2500 Hz. could have been enough with that tweeter because of it's low Fs value of 500 Hz.

@martinenstrom8206 Год назад

You need to think about summation and phase. You don’t want amplified frequencies thrown in a different direction.

@jamesfaulstich1781 Год назад

Try smaller baffle around tweeter ?

@edverbeek6292 Год назад

Which filter sounded the most natural and smooth?

@IBuildIt Год назад

I only listened to the one I settled on. It's been my experience that, regardless of the filter slopes, the flattest response sound best.

@johncnorris Год назад

Thanks for the video. Once the woofer is in an enclosure won't that effect the results of your measurements? Were you trying to get a rough idea of how the speaker would sound or was there another objective for testing it early?

@RambozoClown Год назад

Have you not been paying attention?

@IBuildIt Год назад

There won't be an enclosure, they are open baffle.

@johncnorris Год назад

@@IBuildIt - Thanks, just started watching your channel.

@impuls60 Год назад

I have a trained ear after playing around with REW too much and that peak would have driven me nuts ;) Bought some SB acoustic 6" which has that brakup pushed all the way up to 9kHz and I still noticed it light up with a 2. order at 3kHz. At 3. order 2500kHz it was still noticable but I calculated the quarter wavelength and put a foam piece that diameter in front of the 6". That made it go completely away :). Using foam for absorbtion and diffraction took removed it away. Btw the brakeup did not show up in REW with the 3. order but I could still hear it!

@IBuildIt Год назад

Are you sure it was cone breakup? This wasn't.