Interesting that Paul believes USB to be inferior to other connections. I have recently changed some of the interconnects and the speaker cables in my system and may end up with a completely new loom. I have a USB cable on loan which connects my Auralic Aires G to a Chord Electronics MScaler and to me, this sounds much better than the coax cable I have (RCA to BNC). The cables cost around the same so it’s a fair comparison.
I2S is just a lower level synchronized hardware interface running low speeds in the Mega bits per second range for transferring data while USB is a very flexible protocol allowing numerous applications of reliably transferring data at much higher speeds up to 10 Giga bits per second with the modern C standard. There is no such thing as I2S giving you better quality data to the DAC. If digital audio sounds inferior with USB, it has nothing to do with USB actually but rather it has to do with how you might have your device configured causing sample rate conversion and potential jitter issues. Windows or Mac computers do best in exclusive mode and your DAC will be as happy as with I2C. Powering the DAC via USB might cause noise issues if the DAC doesn’t isolate the analog front-end so just avoid that.
I cannot agree more. 99% of USB DACs convert USB to I2S internally anyway with eg an XMOS chip. This is even better than converting USB externally as Paul recommends, and then having to use it as a transportation protocol, which it was never meant to be.
@@gdehoon3604 When it comes to audiophile marketing, facts don’t always matter. You can find a nice looking audio cable costing US$20 to produce in China getting sold at US$1000 through a bunch of pseudo science marketing nonsense and those buying such cables tend to convince themselves they can hear they sound better, even it’s purely imaginary. Audiophiles never revolt against snake oil marketing as proper engineering/science measurements/analysis or blind tests almost never occur.
Interesting choice, I seem to remember a Mac mini being mentioned in the past. Most of my listening, like this video, is via a USB driven SMSL DAC in my study. I also use a Ethernet driven streamer/DAC - a Raspberry pi running Volumio software in my lounge-room stereo. I cannot say I find one better than the other, however there is a lag when streaming from my PC over the network to Volumio which could be an issue. (usually not for me) Just for some fun, I streamed music from an iPad to the Volumio box. The iPad was running a Moog synthesiser, the end result being a 3 or so note delay. The audio was awesome, the delay not so.
Paul, I saw that wood box sitting on your desk and thought, hey! a microphone! Then I'm going, that's about the same size (but more modern-looking box) as the 2 I have. I was right! You said that it was a U87, which is a product still made. I think you meant to say U67, which is a tube microphone and has a separate power supply. The 2 I have are from the early days, around 1961 IIRC. Lovely mics. I just need to replace the original cable with a new version, since they started making these again as they can be grouchy in their old age. They really are a desert island-type of mic. Great on almost everything. Al Schmidt used these things everywhere. Hope you're enjoying learning the recording process a bit deeper.
That one made no sense. i2s is a CD player output, but with computer files, it is a computer file transmitted with a computer FTP, so USB (or ethernet). That is why there are no i2s outputs on computers and no USB outputs on CD players (I bet there is an exception, but by and large true). With galvanic isolation no issue with USB from even the noisiest computer. Amir/ASR had a recent video on USB cables and jitter etc. and found no effect with reasonable cable lengths. And the USB to i2s box is crazy. If that really sounds better, then there is a problem with USB input stage into the DAC, but not with the data or the connection.
USB (universal serial bus) is a computer interface. It’s used to connect any peripheral devices to a computer. It’s not digital audio interface, it’s a computer interface.
@Douglas Blake JFYI, any sound card is a computer device. Just like video card or printer for example. There is no digital audio signal in USB cable, only data to which used to generate digital audio signal, I2s connection in any case is digital audio connection it’s inside any audio card doesn’t matter if it’s USB, FireWire or PCI connected. Any “audiophile” DAC with USB or FireWire connection just got outboard computer audio interface inside it. A sound card can be with a DAC built in, or it can only provide a digital audio signal connection like SPDIF, I2s or other.
What a coincidence - exactly such a Mic (over 50 years old - the early XLR model with space inside for 2 batteries and a fourth pin) is hanging 2 meters away from me as I watch this video. It's my main mic for all of my voice work for TV productions and has been extensively revised by Neumann in Berlin about 8 years ago. Not a cheap overhaul, but worth it. 😁
If using Denafrips products, something like the Iris DDC has optical isolation as opposed to the galvanic type used in a Pontus II, but the Iris has a Venus-level clock circuit. Overkill if using a quality DAC? Perhaps. Laptops/PCs/CD transports are more likely to benefit from a DDC if your DAC/streamer are not up to the task, so recommended by Alvin Chee of Vinshine and A British Audiophile. Funny that Paul didn’t address DDCs by name, and if his answer will change if they start making a DDC. Then again, maybe this is all a bunch of hooey; I have a Pro-Ject Stream Box S2 Ultra (God, what a name) running into an Iris and then a Pontus II connected via I2S, and really can’t hear a difference myself with the Iris in or out.
Laptop, larger computers have more moving parts and electrical components to create interference... that you can't hear anyway cuz it's digital. Some want as minimal and bare Bones as possible and use a raspberry pi. They'll all sound the same, stop second guessing yourself and your gear, listen to your favorite music and be happy.
I would definitely recommend that you try the cheaper route first. I have all my CDs ripped via FLAC to my Dell all in one computer and then sent via USB to my SMSL SU9 DAC. I can easily switch back and forth for comparison. I would say that the FLAC songs are 98% as good as the CD. This talk of computers introducing noise may have been something of the past but really isn’t much of an issue today. By the way I consider my system pretty resolving being anchored by a pair of Magnepan 1.7i speakers.
CDs can easily be lossy when they get some scratches while FLAC from a PC or streaming is lossless. Of course USB is not a problem in itself and any talk of I2S being superior is nonsense nowadays.
I'm the one that asked the question. That SMSL uses an off-the-shelf ES9038PRO chip and is more of a mid-tier DAC than a high-end DAC, so there will be limitations with what it can do. PS Audio's DirectStream DAC is a much higher resolving DAC, and when paired with other highly resolving components, the differences between USB and I²S are magnified and readily obvious.
I would expect a $2000 dac to sound better than a $400 dac. My point is that I think CDs sound the best with a flac file almost indistinguishable. I'm not saying IS2 can't sound better but it is a protocol designed for computer boards with travel distances measured in inches not in feet of a cable so it's not perfect either.
Speaking of U87 mic, I have the Warm Audio version that “copies” the circuit of the Neumann. But… after a week of using it, the Warm Audio mic started to make noises cracks and pops. Must be a capacitor or cable balancing issue within the mic itself. That’s the difference between an authentic Neumann, and a cheaper Warm Audio. Quality control. I’ve not been able to use it properly ever since and I pretty much wasted $1000. 😣
Laptops including Lenovos thinkpads (formerly IBM) are noisy frequency noises can bea heard when services such as WIFI BLUE TEETH not to mention there is a fan running and of course thanks to USBC if you listen carefully to the charger underload you will hear a high pitched hum like a wall phone charged. Well I do. Most current desktops if using something like a Corsair AX OR HX series power supply the fan does not activate until 60%+ loads so for most of us NOTHING and if you do go down to a desktop wether it be APPLE or PC BOTH respectively proactively equip fans that are asymmetrical to diffuse the frequency hum when running at a fixed speed. But thanks to those that want CRYPTOcurrency DESKTOP machines find it harder getting some points while smaller think center / NUC / rasberry Pi etc are changing the whole approach of all we do everyday. To be fair I have not heard a decent sounding sound card in a PC ever. It’s not like comparing a standard monitor to a Flanders scientific display where there is a DAY AND NIGHT difference with a price tag to match I will say the Audio-quest dragon fly usb audio plug in is a nice price for the price but as for a COMPUTER driving it well like P says we could be here all day. Streaming from your computer to a BROOKLYN or my YAMMY DAC/CD player is a fun and playful way to achieve the result as plugging in on any computer I just get way to much noise. Traveling through from all those power and network transmissions. BLESS
Buying a dedicated streamer built specifically for streaming audio would be first choice before worrying about the different digital outs of a pc. Usb can sound good if design3d specifically for audio.
Why should I place a dozens of devices in my room? Do you clowns think dedicated NAS, Streamers or Routers have some magic in them? It is a ordinary computer mostly with Linux, a OS image and it is pre-configured - Nothing what I can't do on my own with better quality, better security and less resource waste
@@Harald_Reindl you obviously haven't done your research on dedicated streamers. These days than can be inexpensive and small and they just work compared to messing with a pc that's not dedicated to audio. You are still free to try a Linux or Windows version of whatever pc you want. I have tried many version of Linux and Windows with different results in a pc. Your free to use whatever ,makes you happy with as little or as many boxes as you want to stream music. The point is it can be done with less boxes and without a noisey non audio dedicated pc or laptop. Just get a bluesound node and be done. It just works and will fill most people need to stream anything audio. And you don't have to be a it specialist to use it.
@@brandonburr4900 they are hardly cheaper and smaller than just my anyways 365/24 running homeserver which don't need to be dedicated for audio - hence it's my workstation, wlan-ap, network-switch, storage, router, virtualization-host and whatever my single device doing the whole home IT should cover - when it comes to audio "many version of Linux" is nonsense - there is only one Linux kernel - sorry but i don't need handholding from special devices, they all have no magic i can't do on my own way better - digital native versus digital naive - i'm 45 years and started programming with 9
@@Harald_Reindl I'm not trying to argue with with you because it's pointless. Whatever works for your situation. I have used those all in one solutions before in a high resolution system and the results were not great. Too much hash for the noisey pc doing everything and lots of jitter. All those programs running in the background degrade audio quality. I have used optimizing software which shuts those down on those windows and Linux systems in the past and they work and theirs a big audio differnce but it's not as big as a dedicated audio streaming device. I have used different small tiny linux packages such as lucid, puppy, mint, Centro, etc. They are all variations of linux and each sounded different experimenting with each. We're not hear to hold your hand and get you upset over something silly we have experience with. We are just providing our experience to those that want it. You don't. That's fine. Use what is beat for you. Take care and try to have a good day!
@@brandonburr4900 lol - i knew one came up with jitter - just because you can't configure your audio relevant services to run with real time priority nobody don't mean others can't too - with the horse power my machine has it couldn't care less about a tiny laughable audio stream - it's always the same argumentation: when you audiofools have no argument you come up with "jitter"
You can get pci-e sound cards and usb interfaces that can be powered independently from the PC. You can connect a linear powersupply to them. Hans Beekhuizen reviewed such a system.
Why would you wan't an pci-e sound card with it's own psu? You could just get a normal DAC. And a PC already has an integrated DAC so you don't need one unless the PC doesn't have the right or enough outputs you need. What is the name of the product Hans Beekhuyzen reviewed?
@@jasonkillsformomy It wasn't a soundcard I meant. It as an audiophile ethernetcard, USB interface card and a dedicated clock card, all connected via external 5 volt powersupply.
Great video, love the mic! How bout going out your phone via USB to a DAC using a streaming app? Would that be similar to a laptop? I found Audirvana helps on my PC tremendously
I tried that. in my experience it makes little to no difference until you install the XMOS class 2 driver. then you can have an exclusive audio signal from you media player (i use Foobar2000) which will bypass all windows internal audio (like windows startup sound enz) I don't know if there is something like this for android but i don't think so..
@@samlowry5008 I've heard of foobar2000, good info! Would be super convenient to use a phone, but figured it had issues of its own. Along with bitrate limitations, but I can live with that sometimes. Thx!
Hi 🇩🇰🤗 I wonder..?? What is best here? My older (but very good), Linn Ikemi HDCD player, need fixing a new power suppley, with the modul also. would i be Better of with a brand new one, maybe a transport and a Dac? I untill now, used conventionel players (the last one was the older Rega Saturn)...lovely player btw. so what suggestions do u have for me, please 🙏 😏❤️🇩🇰
Great video.. I am still very confused with I2S using HDMI and how it interacts with SACD playback on external DSD capable DACs with i2S HDMI.... due to the lack of standardization on pin-outs of I2S using HDMI. Would love for you to address this issue when playing back SACDs !
I just can't help but feel that your dislike of USB for audio comes down to not having a well engineered USB input. I do not believe that you have actually honestly attempted to make a USB input of acceptable quality. Put a word clock in there that operates at USB's naitive clock rate. Galvanically isolate it. Make sure it supports UAC2. You can do it.
So is it USB et al.? Or just the USB input to some DACS? IOW why would an external box converting from a USB source to an I²S to feed a DAC be better than doing so inside the DAC?
Well, I'm a caveman, so I have no issues with using my gaming desktop PC as a sound source. USB to a Hegel HD11 dac and into my amp. Sounds amazing. But yes, I am a simple cave man.
Honestly, DACs that don’t get their power over USB mitigate a lot of the issues with pc power. USB2 asynchronous is fine too. Arguably better than toslink. Schiit users using unison usb can also laugh all the way to the bank because it’s definitely the best option outside i2s imo. The problems were more on old computers or devices with usb synchronous or power over usb devices with poor quality power supplies and motherboards. Running a USB DAC that is wall-powered (properly) from a gaming pc’s rear USB port is almost certainly better than toslink/optical/coax
This is the set up I would like to implement. What does DDC>I2S translate to in layman's terms? Just trying to understand the parts and connections that go with your system.Thanks!
I have MacBook + Audirvana > Luxman USB cable > Luxman DAC. Superb sound and don’t feel the need to add anything else (in general, I prefer as clean a signal path as possible).
Laptop and batteries - mmm, or or maybe 600Va trans/mosfet rect/normal and supercapacitors (with external charger)/belleson voltage regulator(s) - mmm mm (I think), or or or ooh oooh ohh or maybe a nice GAN USB C charger with USB C laptop - mmm - bet that would sound "fast".
How does singleboard computers like the Raspberry Pi fit into this whole thing? It is basically a Desktop PC but you can get battery banks and fancy powersupplies for it. It is an smaller processer running Arm instead of x86 does this matter?
Laptop running Roon connected to a ifi Zen using a topping linear power supply connected to a DAC via USB sounds great-no need to spend P$audio money...
1:35 As long as a signal is digital and comes across without jitter, then it's pointless to debate the quality. Anyone not understanding that, does not understand what digital means. Any error in a digital signal will cause a horrible noise. Say if you have an 8 bit sample and an communication error budges the first bit (most significant bit) into a 1 instead of a 0 then your amp will be outputting 50% more voltage for a split second. There is no nuance in that.
nonsense linear power supplies are just switching power supply at low frequencies in the audible band. properly built smps is a much cleaner signal and quieter
The advice to buy a usb hub for $500 that converts USB into I2S is VERY USEFUL!!! You might as well sprincle your usb cable with holy water. The effect will be the same, but you'll save $500😄
any ANDROID cellphone with LDAC or AptxHD bluetooth codec will do just fine. ..that to a good bluetooth receiver and dac with LDAC codec like Fiio bta30 pro or the ifi zen blue use their rca outs to your amp and you will be just fine. no need to spend fortunes. use flac music files and USB audio player PRO. eq at taste. forget shitty iphones
My iPhone communicates over the network to an Airport Express that I got for free-- it outputs lossless ALAC via toslink to my external DAC, which then connects via RCA to my receiver Sometimes you just have to use your brain............................
It's digital, 1, 0, ones and zeros. Doesn't matter what you use. And a computer already has an internal DAC so no need to waste money. Some of these questions and answers make me think this channel is for Intellectual impaired.
@@davidfairchild1640 It's digital, 1, 0, ones and zeros. Sound don't change. I will give 100k if you can hear a difference in a third party double blind ABX test with witnesses.
@@jasonkillsformomy The issue is the timing of those ones and zeros.... the timing WILL change the sound! Sending a dedicated clock that is timed with those ones and zeros is what Paul was getting at.
