Destiny 2 Lore - Dual Destiny Exotic Mission Lore. Savathun's Plan to use both Light & Dark. 

God, everything Savathun says is still so damn good. I want her to be in our ear all the time.

I still consider savathun to have the most "main character" vibes. From her, and her sister's beginnings all the way to now. Her story is by far my favorite lore in destiny. I really hope xivu doesn't manage to kill her when the time comes

Savathun frustrates me as a character (in a good way) because she's effectively won (separated herself from the forces of darkness, beat the Witness and gained the light) but she doesn't allow herself to accept it. For all the talk of the Sword Logic failing her, she still desperately clings to the lessons of deception and domination that it taught her. She and her brood have effectively conquered death and never have to fear anything until the heat death of the universe. And she STILL isn't happy. She's trying to fill this void in herself with schemes and goals that only serve to give her something to do, when she's never going to get back the family and happiness that she lost in their pursuit. There was a lore card from back when she possessed Osiris told from her perspective where she enjoyed a night around a campfire with other guardians, and she was at a loss for how to feel. She had a moment of peace and joy and couldn't process it and it terrified her. And during Witch Queen, we saw her faulter when she realized that the Crill were set up by the witness to become slaves to the worm gods. She showed fear and denial that her enslavement wasn't necessary. I don't know if she'll be an ally in the future, but I would like to see that aspect of her character further examined.

Savathun appears for 10 seconds in a DLC and immediately becomes the best character

Savathun pogging on the hunter cape

Every new voice line from Savvy I've heard this expansion is just DRIPPING with sass. Debra is just absolutely wrecking it, and I could listen to her bicker with Mara for an entire season. Take my hint, Bungie. Pls

The bickering and insults between queens is royaly exquisite

Savathun is like the strict aunt that love us deeply and demonstrates it in an unusual way that we kind of hate until we understand why.

We’re Byf guys of course we watch the video as soon as it drops

1:57 I think that is the first time that I have ever heard the Bomb Logic mention in game.

Damn I just got my food. Byf and food is an unstoppable combo.

Sussythun is always a treat to the ears.

Something to note: at the end of the exotic mission you are killed within the cages by; “drowned in the deep”. I may be looking too far into this but in my mind since savathun talks to you during this time, she may already have regained some of her darkness powers and in true savathun fashion is hiding that from us.

Savathun is like the Riddler, the trickery in her character forces the writers into good writing or else the character itself doesn’t work

I like those themes. Not only does it create opportunities for fan favourite characters like Mara Sov and Savathun to develop, but it actually opens the path for the Guardian to also develop. We saw slivers of it with our helplesness during the red war, our anger in forsaken, our honest-to-god yearning for power in Beyond Light, and now forsaking a balance betweem light and dark in the name of combining the two into something greater. I really hope we as a player get to do more things like that. I can imagine, far down the line, obtaining mastery over Hive runes and the title of “God of Death and Rebirth” or something.

Regarding the lore tabs of the Exotic class items - I think the likelihood is that all three of them are speaking to the Traveler. The Hunter one has lines, "We were both adrift. Along the brinks of space, under the black sky. You enter the lives of people that grow to resent your desertion. But we share the same heart, and I know you. You aren't disaffected." This, to me, speaks about how the Traveler blesses and then leaves civilizations, and how a Hunter "gets it", in that they are known to not stick in one place for very long, and loathe to be stuck in the Tower. Meanwhile, the Warlock one states, "I'm walking in your nascent memories. Flickering motes. I sense… curiosity. You've always pondered, from the very beginning. As did we. I see tessellation. The pulsating hum of cosmic structure; a kaleidoscopic symphony of Light and Dark. What was the Veil to you?" This, to me, seems like a Warlock pondering a vision of the Traveler, and thinking about how the Traveler was "always curious", just like how the Gardener is described in Unveiling as wanting to see "what would happen", see diverse patterns and shapes emerge, if given the chance. The question, "What was the Veil to you?" is especially telling, as Veil Containment reveals that the Veil and the Traveler may once have been whole; as Light and Dark may have been once the same force. You realized yourself that the Titan one sounds more like an address to the Traveler, which is what spurred me to read the other ones. To me, it seems evident that all lore tabs are a member of the class speaking to the Traveler in their own way, completely unrelated to the Hive Gods.

Shower thought about Savathun. Season of the Lost, we extract her worm, she escapes, we see her die(outside her throne world) and be resurrected before the traveler. A worm is not required to be reborn/revived in a throne world, Mara Sov proves this. Unless my understanding is wrong, Savathun should have returned to her throne world as other do, and the body raised in light by Immaru is a husk carrying the memories regained. Are there now 2 Savathuns working around us when we believe there is only one? Only holes that get punched in this theory is Eris clearly claimed tribute from "Light" Savathun, and without a worm, Savathun and other hive die quickly without the aid from their worms, so she would only have effectiveness in the ascendant plane. Just a thought, maybe a hole in writing that was overlooked, maybe a hint of whats to come.

I guess Savathun was always curious about what happens if you combine Light and Darkness. ANd she did get her answer.

Maybe the winnower is the friends we made along the way

I wouldn't be surprised if savathun saying she is "looking beyond this one" she means that she is looking at the flower gamre, and is thinking how to "win" the game of the gardener and the winnower. Her mentioning an "a game supposed to last forever" sounds like what the gardener is trying, an unending universe of possibilities (which also implies she has the faith in us to stop all attempts from the winnover, which is nice of her), and moving onto the next act means she might already see the next knife the winnower is preparing. Unveiling is talking about a game between the winnover and the gardener, and seeing if THEY win, but what if the chess pieces on the board want to win? I think thats what savathun is trying to communicate/achieve, for us, unbound by rules of light or dark, to win a game we were forced to play. If she is the god of deception and she can decieve the first knife... can she decieve the gardener and winnower themselves? Can she break our shackles? Only time will tell.

I thought the comment about “bomb logic” was referring to that time Mara bombed herself while fighting Oryx.

To be honest. I think that Savathun doesnt have a concrete plan at the moment. It seems like she is trying to vaguely stay just enough on peoples good side to not get hunted down. While doing what she can to figure out what is next with the light and dark. Looking for new opportunities. She feared the Witness and the guardians beat it. So why would she go against us now?

I get the feeling Savathun didn't allow the Vanguard to keep Immaru for diplomatic reasons... it gives her a window into the Tower aaaaand also happens to be where Oryx's remains are kept.

Nice to see that Moth Mommy hasn't lost her edge

Savathun is such a good character. I love her in literally everything she's in

Something I've been thinking about regarding all the "choosing a destiny independent of the traveler" stuff is that we might no longer be bound to it by our ghost, it being infused with caydes light instead might be the piece that makes us be able to control both powers without borrowing them, channeling light through our ghost, and darkness through ourselves.

I had viewed the “this is just a game” line at 3:18 as a bit metatextual, savathun has hinted at breaking the fourth wall before as well

Zavathun's right on this. By using stasis or strand weapons in the primary slot and solar, arc or void weapons in the energy weapons slot, we charge up our prismatic charge wirh each kill made by dark or light energy.

Titan big brain activate

Every day I grow closer to having a taken subclass. Thank you savathun, very cool

Has Savathun always been Lucille Bluth-like or did I miss some paracasual wine party?

Savathûn! Queen of Light! Dust Regent! Aiät! Aiät! Bless us with long lives and quick deaths, with sharp wits, keen eyes, and silver tongues!

I don't think I've ever made it to a video any faster in my entire life, great stuff as always :D

Byf makes me realize just how cool Destiny is

Savathun once said that we love omelets but hate breaking eggs, my thought of her is that she enjoys breaking them a bit too much when the eggs can scream in pain. She may be clever for trying to carve her own logic and rebuking the sword logic but she still ONLY cares for herself. If she is teaching us to follow her footsteps it is only so she can turn us into another stepping stone at a later date. Mara puts it best when she calls Savathun out for causing so much strife and claiming it's to create strong allies, she's just creating desperate people that make pacts of mutual survival and positions herself to always be the lesser of two evils, or to benefit directly in the case of watching over our shoulder to get her memories back or following us into the traveler. She can't do it herself and her pride will not allow her to simply ask for help or make allies of mutual respect. She can't give information that isn't wrapped in deception and thoroughly enjoys watching people suffer when they trigger one of her pointless traps. All of this is why she's one of my favorite villains in destiny, she isn't even in need of direct stopping, she's too smart to directly antagonize us, but she cannot ever be our ally and we need more characters to pull a saint-14 and crater her for a few resurrections.

A quest called "Dual Destiny" in a game called Destiny 2. Well done Bungo.

Bro this video made everything click for me

My name is Byf, it would be an honor to assist you in clearing the raid. I've spend the last week of my workday listening to your videos in depth and wouls love to repay that favor. If you're interested please shoot me a DM and we can get something planned as soon as you'd like. (I have some clanmates who are also well versed in the raid, so we can definitely fill a fireteam if need be) Thank you again for all of the time you've put in to your content and for making the lore easier to digest and contemplate, and most importantly for making my workdays more tolerable. ❤

Good god I love Savathun

How does Savathun, plan to ascned to true godhood alongside Gardner and the Winnower? They are part of the game instead of observers. As savvy as she is, she couldn't begin to comprehend beings of such power that they spawned universes. Guess we don't have to worry about her escaping into our reality......right?

Before the Witness reveal, we had been led to believe that the Darkness, the Black Fleet, and the Winnower were each equivalent, one and the same. We've broken off the Black Fleet as the forces of the Witness, but many still seem to equate the Winnower with the Darkness. But consider this line: "In Dark or in Light, someone is always making my choice." This line specifically makes me think that the Gardener and Winnower might actually be distinct from the Light and the Dark entirely, though I'm not sure how exactly that would work.

One of my favorite characters I've ever encountered period.

Unrelated to this video but I have to tell you, please play insight terminus for Micah-10 Ghost quest for Bean. It references Sundaresh stopping Kargen's research.

I'm really looking forward to Heresy now I always love hearing and Savathun and any lore about her

Learning more as I go… thank you, Byf!

The idea of Sword Logic being of the Dark, and Bomb Logic being of the Light (as a definition) just seems wrong. Sword Logic is that of brute strength and force. Where Bomb Logic is that of cunning and strategy. (Both, simplisticly speaking) To call Mara's use of "Bomb Logic" that of the Light (when battling Oryx) versus the same cunning and strategy that Savathun has used (to achieve her victories) as being from the Dark, seems like we're only making excuses because the results that either align with our players desired results (or not) Look at previous Raid, and higher difficulty encounters we've faced throughout the game. Some are where Brute Force and Strength (DPS checks) get us our victory. Others are where Cunning and Strategy (mechanics and team based puzzles) helps us win out. So the idea of one (Sword vs Bomb) being good or bad just doesn't make sense, to me.

I think savathun saying we have the power of a god at our finger tips is in reference to how the precursors wanted to combine the veil and travelers powers to afford them godlike powers that would let them reshape the universe. We've kinda done that, by combining light and darkness powers together.

Gotta say, i love we have more Savathun. Her voice actress is earning that damn paycheck and im here for itm

We're Byf guys, ofc we dont read lore tabs because daddy byf reads them to us

Boy oh boy do I hope we will address Drifter's ghost being able to see "different spectrums of Light" some time soon, I've been curious about that since forever

frag grenade logic

If Savathun and Caital started a podcast where all they did was read the phone book, id sub to highest level patreon.

Honestly love this mission.Once you learn it, It's really fun to farm with friends

I hope Savathun is here to stay, I do like her character and her voice actor

I thought when savathun mentioned "bomb logic" she was referring to when mara shot those three orbs at oryx's ship only for them to do absolutely nothing.

When she says “diffrent angles” we are presented with solipsism, relativism and stoicism. The 3 exotic class items. Each one of them with interesting ideias of independence like Solipsism wich is a philosophical doctrine that states Only the self and its sensations effectively exist, with other people being mere impressions without their own existence. I personally love to think that when I live the room everybody stands on T-pose waiting for me to come back lmao. We are presentend with Stoicism(titan) and relativism(hunter) as well. I wonder why Savathun wants to present us with this ideas

Something I've been theorizing since the year of Beyond Light is that the Guardians will eventually practice a mix of both sword and bomb logic. Our own logic taking the best of both. Gun Logic. using bomb logic to set up systems that allow for repeated distribution of swords aimed carefully as to be nearly unavoidable. I think it would be neat to see that theory come to fruition like Savathun seems to hint at.

If one character could become as powerful as the Gardener and the Winnower, it would be Savathun. Savathun could become a third power that balances both the Gardener and Winnover with her deception and judgement. She could become the Judge who rules over the flower game and makes sure that if a rule changes, it always follows a pattern that allows each party to adjust accordingly. A judge like figure could've prevented a lot of trouble if this figure would've existed before the Gardener and Winnower get at each others throats.

So I’m finding something a little interesting, the sword logic dictates that the strongest thing in the universe will be the only thing that can self perpetuate right and most of the stuff we do as guardians is to intentionally or unintentionally prove it false. However there appears to be a paradox, in the attempt to prove the sword logic false we have also accidentally proved it true. We guardians and those who rally to us are the strongest things in existence and all others fall before us.

I honestly think Savathun is hinting at a few things here. Both the flower game of the Gardener/Winnower and Destiny, the game as we understand it from a player's perspective. If our be all fated endgame ends up being something THAT ontological, it would be neat to see. The Emmisary of the Nine is the only other entity to elude to it so far.

They could just merge all remaining aspects into prismatic and, to give us reason to use Light and Dark subclasses, make normal subclasses give something strong, like Transcendence, but focused on one element. Like a combination of grenades of one element. Example: arc - pulse grenade with storms, blinding, jolt, generating ionic traces and small projectiles that follows enemies during the "Light Transcendence"

I still feel like there was meta textual relevance to the Mara, savathun interaction. Believes it’s one of the visions of the traveller seems to imply the universe coming into being and Mara making a comment it felt familiar. I took this as her remembering the creation of the distributary and thought about old theories about how savathun wished to transcend the destiny universe

I believe all of the exotic class items were Titan Warlock and Hunter Guardians perspectives talking to the Traveler.

As cunning as she is, we can't ignore that she has been helpful to us. If it weren't for her, we would've already lost in the first collapse or being able to have our own exotic class items from dual destiny. Her being cunning is just her nature.

Gotta give it to Debra Wilson she's really killing it with her Savathun... She honestly sounds like she's enjoying it lol.

I love the idea of a third logic defying the other two. It just feels right

[Laughs evilly] 😂

I'm totally okay with Savathun becoming our next ten year arch-nemesis. She is literally the opposite of the Witness in being a singularity out of conformity rather than trying to conform everything into one. Plus her character is far more mysterious, ambiguous, and intriguing. And the voice actress is one fire

I can't wait for Nokris and Xol to come back for Heresy, calling in every bit of lore about them into question.

And it was with this video, I realized that the flower game between the gardener and the winnower May in fact be that pattern that we see rotating around the traveler and the start screen... The traveler being where the gardener injected itself into the game and disrupting the pattern. And how they wanted to add a rule to the game to allow for evolution and change, which is probably the loading screen where it cycles between the different classes emblems all from the same pattern evolving and changing... If that's the case then these developers have had it there from the start and are sneaky. It came to mind when you referenced the next game of shapes..

Reading all the class items, i think they are all referencing the traveler. The hunter is the weakest with the Navigator reference, but it still talks about the travelers abandoning civilizations. And navigator is kinda just a synonym of traveler anyways

I hope we learn more about the worm gods and their plans. With everything that has happened you would think they would need to make their own plans for the future.

I kind of have to sigh with Sathona. So much potential, and she continues in the same patterns. For as much as the first daughter of Fundament speaks of breaking free, she remains bound too much by nature and habit. I suppose immortality will do that to you. Still, she might be offering potential for her hive that she won't grasp. Luzaku gives me hope I haven't had since Witch Queen. Hope that we might be able to bring the children of fundament back into a gentle kingdom ringed with spears.

I think Savathun might be considering more the Hive's place in the metaphoric totem pole more than anything. With one of the 2 major players now decapitated and her own species ravaged, she might try worming her people up the totem pole to a place where they can be safe from the gods they spent so long tithing up to and the more immediate issues, like the Guardians. It's why Luzaku is such a key player, she's a rebel but also forging her own way forward towards a freer Hive, perhaps a return to the Krill in a way?

For what i understand, Savathun play her own game. Not for the light, or the darkness, but for her own goal. And i think that's why she's so sassy here, because the witness tried to use her and her brood. This is a "cheh" moment

Honestly, Savathun has a point. And she's somewhat echoing what Cayde said at the end of the final shape. She's trying to make her own destiny, and hinting in her own way that we need to as well. How funny would it be if she's the one who most understands the Traveler's intention. Wouldn't it be interesting if she could "hear" the Traveler. Byf did point out in another video that it's not that it doesn't speak, just that it does so quietly, wanting but also not wanting to influence our choices. Isn't that kinda secretive? Not deception, necessarily, but kinda subversive. At this point, if I was given the choice as a Guardian, I might just take Savathun's side.

Im still curious about is how Savathun keeps knowing the future & is always like 5 steps ahead of us. One thought i had is that she somehow has that Psion prediction engine that Kargon was trying to steal data on back in the Insight Terminus strike

I wonder if Savvy’s plans will be tied to how we leave the solar system? One of her truths was that our destiny lies outside.

Ok I just want to be sure I understand this correctly or see if anyone thinking along the lines of me. The Precursors turned to the darkness/The Veil/The Winnower and became the Witness(The First Knife). This is why the Winnower says he looks at the Gardener, then his hand and discovers the First Knife. Discovers is a weird word to use here, you’d think he would’ve created the First Knife. It seems as if he didn’t truly consciously make the Witness, but since it was formed from him, from the Darkness/Veil, he uses them to assist in establishing his Final Shape. The only problem is that the freedom that was put into place by the Gardener got in his way and the Witness decides to create their own Final Shape, which is why they say the Winnower can’t control what they cut. This leads to the Veil/Winnower giving us further access to the darkness by giving us the Strand ability to assist us with defeating the Witness and I believe that this is what Savathun knows and is investigating. I believe she sees how the Winnower is placing pieces on the board for his endgame. I also believe the Witness was truly sent to place darkness within the Traveler, which we’ve heard is going to change the Traveler. This tipping the scales in favor of the Darkness/Winnower as I believe that the true Final Shape is going to be the Veil blocking out the remaining light of the Traveler as they become one. I mean it’s all in its name the Veil, something that blocks sight or in this case light. The Veil will consume the Traveler and allow the Winnower to enact his true law unto the universe. Savathun is sitting back and watching all of this and slowly trying to get us to understand this as well. PS: I’d describe the Gardener and Winnower’s relationship as brotherly as they share literal parallels Cain, Abel and the First Blade. Makes you wonder what may be beyond them, unless they’re the two primordials.

Straight away, two pairs of ROYAL SASSINESS.

She also has other lines in that Exotic Mission. At the end when you don't choose 'Peace'. ;)

Right off the bat, mowing down some Taken.

Savathun is the most important character in destiny. She repelled the witness during the collapse she's a master of planning and has something for everything. She is the coolest

Oh god savathun using light and darkness? That sounds terrifying yet intriguing at the same time

Thank you for the great videos byf!

Was mid-Byf when another Byf dropped, must be luck

Combining a sword and a bomb? That's a gunblade. She's doing Squall logic next!

Savathun is on our side, I'm convinced, because it's the best con she could possibly pull. We would never trust her if she came out and just joined our team, and if we did trust her she'd instantly lose all respect for us and kill us all. The only trick we could never possibly call her on would be that she is genuinely working in our best interest out of the kindness of her heart.

There are a few ways to look at the class items lore, it might not be right but to me it seems like the guardians talking to the traveler about its past present and future, Solipsism about its past through its traveling and "gaining knowledge", Stoicism about it's present, knowing that it might one day leave again due to a bigger threat? and Relativism about looking forward and maybe moving with the traveler, not running away from the last city, but looking towards the horizon with the traveler in mind. There are a few flaws in this but i think its worth saying.

Thank you for all the great content!

i interpreted that "bomb logic" mentionned by Savathun as a mockery of the harbingers "bombing" the dreadnought

Savathun is preparing for the next game, "Destiny 3: The Geometry of Angles"

Thanks lore dad i wasnt able to pay much attention to savathun laughing in my face cuz i was too busy screeching timeclock and Vow callouts 😂 (This is a joke, i paid attention, but byf video is a byf video and itll be good to see if i missed anything)

Really wish there was a bit more context during the mission especially the ending area, my fireteam leader left the second we finished so gotta go back in just to see what’s in that final room

I think what Savathun seeks is a Universe where all it's inhabitants become their own gods, not in the sense of becoming truly omnipotent but rather in the sense they're free to live their lives as they see fit, be it standing alongside others or destroying all that would stand in the way of what they desire. All of which, free from the influence of The Gardener and The Winnower who set Light against Dark to begin with. And honestly? I'd side with Savathun to be perfectly honest, free will for life baby (and totally not because I'm a massive Savathun simp)

I wonder if the ascendant plane is going to become more prominent in the new saga. I think that with the light being shown in a different angle through being practically taken could show that this plane could have a different potential that we haven’t thought about yet

Been playing on and off since the very beginning but regularly since beyond light, I've been saying ever since witch queen that maybe we can trust savathun (in the sense that YES she's the queen of deception and lies and trickery, basically this universes loki she HAS been right a lot of the time and HAS helped us in her own twisted roundabout hive way.) We shouldn't BLINDLY trust her, but she's made some pretty good points even back then

Savathûn talking about how Light and Dark are synergistic and cannot exist without the other isn't new philosophy even to humans, it's a fundamental taoist belief (yin-yang are not opposite concepts, they are relative dichotomies that only exist in contrast to the other instead of separate or without). but i do appreciate she seems intent on opening these doors to anyone she deems interesting enough

I’d like for them to do savathun how they did evil morty and let her plot and spin her schemes so immaculately that even if they deliver a killing blow she’ll get what she wants

🙏 praying we see more exotic class items for different subclasses