Destiny 2 Lore - The Precursors, The Final Shape & The Witness. The Penitent's Answer. 

"If the choise is between the greater and lesser evil, then the choice itself is flawed." HNW was spittin', ngl.

Wake up babe, Byf dropped the 80 minute Precursor video.

I can't think of a single other time in lore where a pyramid ship is described as a tetrahedron, which got me curious as to the exact definition, and in the wiki entry I noticed the following: "For any tetrahedron there exists a sphere (called the circumsphere) on which all four vertices lie, and another sphere (the insphere) tangent to the tetrahedron's faces." Interesting that the existence of a polyhedron necessitates the existence of a sphere

80 minute lore video. Tonight we feast.

The witness even says "my friend" as he's cutting into the traveler

"...that what we will become will be lesser, if it is made without you." the writers at bungie never fail to craft some truly beautiful lines

Precursor lore in a nutshell: Part 1: HNW: I like gardening. I hope nothing bad happens to my garden 🙂 Part 2: RS: We should make the universe a better place because suffering is bad. Death of your garden was bad. HNW: but isn't intervening to stop suffering a little too aggressive? Part 3: HNW: I killed all the dissenters and now we will become a hivemind and reset the universe because suffering is bad. Where R U? RS: . . .

The fact that with the collector’s edition you can hold in your hands a physical copy of the oldest records known in Destiny lore, recovered from a ketch we infiltrated in a random story mission way back in D1, is mind-boggling. The detail, expansiveness and level of immersion in the Destiny universe is beyond impressive. I’ve never experienced anything like it. I’ve played ever since the beta 10 years ago, and honestly it saddens me that so many people will never truly appreciate how rich this story is.

Byf apologizing for taking less than a week to record and edit an 80 minute lore video. What a guy.

"...what we become will be lesser if it is made without you...I confess this in selfishness. I do not want to forget you." I didn't expect to get misty eyed during a MNIB video.

Bungies lore writers deserve a massive raise theyll never get. Theyre basically the only reason i play

It’s crazy how precursors had the same three main factions the tower had Nihilist = Dead Orbit Swarm = FWC Conquerers = New Monarchy

The "glass minds" predicting a great wave is interesting, because both possibilities for what that could be referring to (fundament's God wave or the collapse hitting titan) were directly caused/planted by the witness. Its precursor species (or at least Hemingway and rorschach) were clearly trying to prevent these outcomes but ultimately caused them. The idea of the main villain of DESTINY, where the tag line of "guardians make their own fate" has been around since vanilla d1, falling victim to a self fulfilling prophecy is a really interesting piece of writing if that's what bungie is going for

I like how the community predicted the name “Precursors” before anyone actually said it in the game or lore.

Also, i cant believe that the Eye from the Vex Gate Lord gave us THAT. Amazing.

you said "time before time" and my bionicle brain lit up

I find it interesting that you didn't delve more into "Hemmingway's" personal journey here, as I found that to be the most narratively intriguing story in this book: They start as an optimistic gardener, seemingly disinterested in the Penitent's philosophical debates. But they turn to outrage that someone would destroy their planetary work without apparent meaning. This has major parallels with Asha's cutscene, where the Precursors felt that the [Gardener/Traveller]'s creation is too chaotic, and they grow frustrated at their lack of control, turning to the Darkness My take is that "Hemmingway" turned to politics after their garden was destroyed, and they clearly were someone pushing the Penitent towards their final extremes. The Penitent were evidently lacking direction, from "Rorschach's" messages, and a loud passionate new voice can make a big difference in a debate. "Rorschach" seemed to be very against such means, and the Penitent are still conflated with [Merciful/Benefic] in the second exchange. They seem to only have turned fully to winnowing some time after "Hemingway" joined their ranks For me, the Witness is an embodiment of frustration at a universe that builds and destroys without purpose. It doesn't know what the answer is, what the Final Shape is, and according to these documents it is growing increasingly less curious and more angry at that fact A wraith of the anger a gardener feels at someone crushing their flowers for seemingly no reason, still trying to create a world in which that can never happen again

have waited almost a decade for this lore.

I hope Rorschach is alive, the lore from that would be incredible

Got here faster than when her parents weren't home

Hour and a half of Byf and Destiny lore? Let's go.

Also with all my heart I don't think nearly as many guardians would be as invested in Destiny without Byf and his lore breakdowns. He's living proof that extrapolating and digesting all of the lore destiny has set up is quite literally a full-time job; as such I think the player count would have never recovered without him

Few things that could make Final Shape amazing: - A cutscene of the Witness being created. Make it horribly eerie, as we know many of the precursors were scared about doubtful about this choice - Make the story of The Final Shape one of heroism. There are a lot of lost souls binded into the Witness. Children, adults and so many others. We should either save them by ending the Witness or by somehow freeing them. The story needs to hit emotionally if this is gonna be considered a success imo

Woah This might be a total reach, but I am identifying a parallel between the Precursor Factions and the Worm Gods of the Hive……… Eir (Keeper of Order) - Penitent Yul (The Honest Worm) - Nihilists Ur (The Ever Hunger) - Solipsists Xol (Will of the Thousands) - Swarm Akka (Keeper of Secrets) - Conquerors

Wait, the Precursors? I haven't heard that name since Halo's lore. _The Bungie Cinematic Universe lives on._

What if RS, "Rorschach", is the entity inside the Traveler all this time? We still don't know too much about the collapse. In all other cases the Traveler fled when the Witness caught up, but with humanity it decided to stay and created the Ghosts. Ghosts always fascinated me because they are essentially tiny consciousnesses, which we learn to be a Darkness thing normally. What if during our collapse Rorschach went into the Traveller, pushed away the black fleet and reverse-Witness himself and divided his own consciousness into many many pieces to form the Ghosts to help humanity at an "individual" level. Maybe that is his way of the final shape now. We know he rejected the Consensus. He maybe all for devotion, bravery and sacrifice of individuals rather than a singular consensus. Final Shape trailers shows our Ghost speaking about how he knows his true purpose now. Maybe that is because Ghosts have finally returned to the source, to Rorchach. We all remember the concept Destiny Traveler cutscene where a feminine figure greeted the first team that found the Traveller. Maybe Rorschach is the new version of that idea?

Wow, what a ride. It needs to be said, whoever the lorewriters are are absolutely incredible. This sort of stuff only comes from someone with great depth. It's more than logical connection, you have to feel some of this, to make it so...viscerally. Wow.

The Glass Minds being related to the Vex is... interesting? Especially since we see the Sol Primeval/Precursor Vex being extremely advanced looking and, well, glassy. Atheon may have been one of these Glass Minds, or at least the closest the Vex could create without the Precursors' help. There's also the [Summit/Pyramidion/Final Shape] thing. The only time we've seen that word before is the Pyramidion on Io, which appears to link multiple places at once- perhaps this is the Observatory and why the Vex wanted to keep the Witness out. There's also the "Glassway", which connects an ancient Vex Forge Star to Europa, and Vex radiolaria and the Darkness were instrumental to the creation of the Exos and their mind transfer process- something akin to the creation of the Witness.

For the "Glass minds" I don't take this as the Precursors created them, but more the Vex were a separate party/entity that, just by existing and doing what they do, just so happened to help the precursors Observetory become more accurate. Additionally, given the Vex exists outside of time, if they're origin was the Precursors, they would also exist before the Precursors created them and now we have a paradox.

The final shape is 2008 youtube. The Witness wants to bring back lolcats.

So the plot of the witness is that the precursors lived for too long and had way too much free time to over think everything

This is a fascinating philosophical debate and the idea of the precursors eliminating their opposition in order to achieve a consensus is such an interesting contradiction

Late to the party, but I imagine this flawed consensus that created the witness will be a core aspect of how we fight it. By showing it, or parts of the group that made it, the flaws in their concepts or consensus, we can create a window of opportunity to damage it physically. I imagine it similarly to the Philosopher’s stones in Fullmetal Alchemist, allowing us to commune or influence the souls within and enact change.

I listened to this while trying to sleep. My dreams were CRAZY

Man... Bungie universe and lore creation for their games - all of them, not just Destiny - is easily the best out there. I didn't think anything could get better than the wild expanded Halo universe, but Destiny really takes the cake. I never thought I would be so engaged in a video as long as this one, but I was absolutely glued to it!

I'm gonna be 100% honest here, I can't think of the witness's creation without seeing the Anti-Spiral from Gurren Lagann lol. Either way, both are dope af, and I love the lore writers and your chronicling of it. You actually got me into the lore when I was young Byf, with your Dredgen Yor and Shin Malphur recollection. What a ride guys. I can't believe I started this game way back when I was like 8 with the D1 beta lol. Now I'm like, a grown man technically. Wtf lol.

1:07:22..."that what we will become will be lesser; if it is made without you." I've poured through the books to see if there's an indication RS left in the same timescale as when the Traveller/ Gardener left. I can't shake the feeling RS hitched a ride. That despite the billions of years that's passed, RS will have existed within the traveller, always on the run from the Witness. That the Witness needs to subsume RS in order to reach perfection/ the Final Shape....and that RS could be the figure in D1's pre-viz art that originally was planned to appear to the crew of the Ares when humanity made first contact with the traveller on Mars. Guess we'll find out in a few months time!

Boiling the atmosphere seemed to suggest our own history of nuclear warfare.

As a fellow delivery driver who is constantly on the road we thank you for your time, effort and constant joy you bring us when you drop these banger videos❤

Dude this was phenomenal!! The length was not a problem. The breakdown of Hemingway and Rorschach was incredible.

Interesting.. in my language(Greek) entelechy -=> enetelexeia means “constant and uninterrupted care or diligence” or “the continuation, the duration”. With a little search I found this was a word made by Aristotle but the full etymology of the word is kind of a challenge. I guess I will stay in what we know about it and I think they used in the lore book considering the care and diligence meaning. Thank you for your videos, I always come here for lore and theory!

Just got my collectors edition, messing around rn with the tower and watching the Lore daddy, the perfect day

Plot twist, the self exiled precurser left, found a little planet after some time, fostered a new species and helped it flourish called humans, disguised itself as one of them, died during the collapse and they're our guardian :D

Byf.....what if "The NINE" are actually ones who escaped from the Witness's purge? They have a greater understanding of everything going on and know the outcome, but they aren't doing anything to stop it. They are a complete mystery to us, but what if they are revealed to be the Witness's antithesis? I'm seeing alot of parallels of the NINE and the other factions of the Precursors. I could be grasping at strings, but it sorta makes sense.

an hour and 20 minutes of precursor lore is fucking sick. I'm so excited to watch this through. You're a legend as always Byf! 💙

I love your Lore videos. I always tried to piece things together myself and then come to your channel to get more context. Even now, after dropping Destiny (missed content of 3 seasons after Witch Queen and never bothered to go back to a game that expects me to pay so much and then sunset Story after 3 Months) I still always come back to your channel to learn more and keep up with the story. Kind of like you are an audiobook, I guess. So thank you kindly for all the work you put for us.

Thank you Byf for putting this out. I had teeth extracted from my skull yesterday and watching this is giving me some comfort.

Finally some more Ancient secrets and deep world building lore. This is why I love this game and why I'm so glad I found your channel all those years ago. Great work again, very much looking forward to your next vid.

I absolutely love the idea of The Witnesses downfall being the fact that it was built upon a lie, as you pointed out Savathǔn’s downfall was. I hope that it’s pursued in a different fashion, almost forcing us to extract those who ultimately dissented from the mass that makes up The Witness, and then in turn dismantling the witness evermore, until we’re able to actually fight and defeat the shadowy mass.

Top notch work as always sir! Loved the longer form video a lot!

I feel like we should be talking more about how in Lightfall, the main complaint Bungie got is how much of the story isn't in the game, and they promised to do better. And now we get huge story drops... in a very very expensive book available only to collectors.

Thank you for taking the time to make such a wonderful and in-depth video.

There is something so soothing about hearing Byf’s voice on the larger lore videos. And this one was amazing!

This was a fantastic video! 👏 Bravo Byf! Loved every minute

I gotta love how you gave them the most British sounding Names Hemmingway and Rorscach

Wake up everyone! 80 minute Byf lore video just dropped.

This video actually changed my opinion on the witness. There is a ton of complexity to it but I still think Bungie fell short on showing that to us. At first I didn’t like the character because there was seemingly no personality or soul to it, I now understand that it was purely intentional and the Witness sees those traits as flaws. I’m still under the idea that our ghosts might have a much closer connection than we realize.

u got to be impressed by destinys story\lore, its so good! keep it coming byf :D

I just wanted to show my appreciation for the content, the effort it took to create it and how you've been putting yourself out there with your voice acting lately. Well done!

Thank you for the video Byf. I really appreciate all your hard work.

Definitely don't mind the wait for this, SCRUMPTIOUS looking dive into the lore. Thanks Byf ❤

that was amazing loved every bit of it. keep up the wonderful work love your videos!

Pulling the 'ancient aliens' trope in a post Mass Effect 3 world is CRAZY. That was tye Avengers Endgame of ancient aliens, Bioware was like "every race of ancient aliens you could possibly imagine has been reduced to biomass to make the ACTUAL bbeg"

Thank you, I was looking forward to this video.

this change everything about the precursors the final shape and the witness 100% amazing lore video byf

Thoroughly enjoyed this (as per usual). I was waiting for this video knowing the collector's edition would have lots of juice for us. ❤❤❤

Such a beautiful breakdown, I look forward to more videos

Haven’t played Destiny in years at this point, but still get excited for Byf drops.

God I love these hour long videos. You did an amazing job and have made the first half of my shift go by so fast

Truly epic video man, well done.

There is one thing that scares me about the witness, and that’s if “we” becomes “me”. Final unification, erasing all the remaining individuality and having the leader of the consensus, the individual who decided on this course of action, being the only witness.

Sweet Lordy lore daddy Christmas came early and so have I. This is a treat 😩

Don't worry of time Byf. Cook. We will be patient, this video was well worth the wait👌

It is lore like this that I love. To go back to an almost primordial age of a story.

Great video, Byf! Thanks for what you do.

I love the deep deep dive and the length!! Tx ❤

I have to say, I LOVE the names Hemmingway and Rorschach! They excellently convey the idea of actually being 'people' (compared to code), but the names also give that sense of complexity that I think fits the Precursors (compared to something like Henry and Ross)

I LOVE Destiny lore. Thank you Byf ❤ Oh and I love longer videos.

Well, time to grab some popcorn and learn some lore under a blanket ❤

So hype for this video, exited for the next few

Awesome vid byf congrats on 1 million subs🎉

I'M SO CLOSE TO BEING CAUGHT UP TO THIS PLAYLIST. THIS IS ALL I'M BEEN LISTENING TO FOR THREE MONTHS!!!

Something incredibly interesting I’ve noticed is several aspects of Destinys Lore very clearly being inspired by 343’s Halo Lore. The aply named ancient species “Precursors” are not the start of this. The D1 Book of Sorrow described a powerful space Empire known as the “Ecumene” the exact same name 343 chose as the official name of the Forerunners Empire. Even more so with the Destinys mention of utilizing machines/warriors known as “War Angels” which sounds very similar to the Forerunners “War Sphynx” Mechs. And I suppose you could even see the etherial mysterious realm described by Destinys Ecumene known as their “Habitable World” similar to the Forerunners vault of cosmic knowledge “The Domain” And most recently, we have the Precursors, a powerful species who feel betrayed and fused their dead minds and flesh into a single, corrupting organism bent on destroying the works of its traitor. You could even see the Cloudstriders as similar to the Spartan-4’s. Augmented heroes taken from the citizenry itself and still capable of interacting and relating to them. With Guardians more familiar to Spartan-2’s. Distant, brainwashed soldiers always physically and mentally separated from their people. I think 343 would be very flattered to know some writers in modern Bungie still think of them!

RS might as well have been the progenitor to the Psions! Hints: RS put lots of trust into their people's "Observatory". Psions seem to be named after their psionic capabilities, & esp. their spiritual belief of the afterlife (lore book from Opulence regarding the Psion "Match") mirrors what lead to the merging of the Consensus, & they've had the OXA machine. Speaking of the Observatory; what the Precursors saw in it definitely became a self-fulfilling prophecy upon merging into the Witness, esp. if you had 1 of them wondering if all of the observed fates are considered part of the "final shape", so the "great wave" part was DEFINITELY a reference to the Fundament (speaking of, we still don't know about the proto-Hive's og homeworld). The "glass-minds" being explained separately from the observed "machine-plague infesting moons with prediction engines" is a good hint at how to parallel this book with Unveiling: The glass minds were likely a Golden Age AI tech of the Precursor, that then went rampant & became the Vex. What's eerie is the similarities between how the Vex as a species are structured vs how the consciousness of the Witness came to be. I desperately want to know what it was that HNW brought to their found system along side the planned panacea progenitor materials. Because I find it curious, that in all that terraforming vocabulary, there was no mention of tree(s) of Silver Wings! was also wondering how similar a multi-being of a merged consciousness without a body would be to the Nine...

@MynameisByf Bungie should give you a medal and reward you royally. I think without your videos I would have quit over a year ago. but you always manage to ignite curiosity and passion for the new content - you good Loredaddy you.

"A place where even the bacteria are dead" sounds rather like any location the Deathsinger Chorus had been deployed.

I’m here for a treat 80 min byf video excellent yes I’m so Grateful for this service im always loving the vids I just wish bungie ain’t retconned and make up random story details within a year to try and forcibly connect things they messed up on but byf is my savior

Byf, I know quite a few players who are coming back from destiny 1 who want to understand what is going on in destiny right now. I know this is a big ask but can we get a lore sum up of d2 and the characters relevant to the plot right now for those players, I'm sure that it would be vital to them for understanding things like the crow and the veil or even the witness. I love you and your content it really helps me understand destinys lore and I've been watching since the taken king to understand the books of sorrow and I want other players to pick up both your amazing content and destiny's lore like I have 🖤

1½ hours I just can't @Byf

Yet another phenomenal video my good sir. 👍 👍

Byf don’t apologize when you’re cooking, we all know you’re content gonna be good! Especially since this is a movie; just drop on it the table, and watch us get our fill.

Amazing video and amazing lore ✨. I gotta say I was slightly disappointed when the revealed that the Witness is made of many and that we won't see a new race but honestly this lore was so much fun and I am excited to learn more of their past.

Finally a long video. 🙌

The Witness is really just seeming like the Human Instrumentality Project

So excited to have gotten my CE today and being able to read these myself.

This lore manages to make the Witness a complex and compelling character, which was sorely needed. I just hope they manage to convey this in-game somehow, otherwise most players will never get it…

i'm only about ten minutes in, but so far the Precursors and their factions sounds much like how the Forerunners are portrayed in the Forerunner saga books, which, i suppose, makes sense - both are Bungie universes

EIGHTY MINUTE BYF VIDEO LET’S GOOOOOOOOO

I love listening to these while I’m grinding destiny ranks and mats

Turned down funky time for this 🔥🔥