Destiny 2 Lore - No... Clovis Bray can't be trusted (and the reason he wants to Revive Rasputin) 

Trusting clovis is like holding a live grenade. Nothing happens at first, and then it goes off and you suffer for it.

Byf going off and *roasting* Kelgorath alive was an unexpected but wonderful pleasure.

Can we also take a moment and remember that in this week's story mission Ana muted Clovis and apparently we could've done that this whole time

Clovis said that the Mindlab was in the rift, not the entire futurescape. The interior of the lab that housed Raspution is what changed, not the exterior.

Anyone else wish Banshee was a bigger part of this season?

I don’t know, I think we can trust him. Not only did he give us the DSC weapons, but he also made sure Elsie had a built in bakery. That’s more than Rasputin has ever done for me.

Also, a point that may be explored at some point: Some machines DEFINITELY have spirits. Namely Felwinter, an AI-turned-Guardian

I like the surprise in clovis' voice when he realized he couldnt decrypt the launch codes so easily. I think that clovis is underestimating rasputin and his granddaughters.

When I saw this map and do a thorough double take, I actually believe that the Mindlab itself (and that I mean the place that actually houses Charlamaigne) is in the time warp and not the entire Futurescape Campus. Hence why there's the snow and ice, rusted cars, worn out buildings and the Pyramid ship.

Clovis can’t be trusted, but I also don’t think he’ll join the witness, I could be wrong but I don’t think his ego would allow for him to be subservient to another force (Plus you can’t have much of a legacy or be the “guiding hand of humanity” if of said humanity is dead)

As an older gamer that have spent a lot of hours with D2 I still haven’t invested enough in how well or not well Bungie has tied all of this together. I was happy to be actually playing a map that had been gone for a long time.

At the beginning of the season Clovis comments on how much storage space Rasputin's exo frame has. I think Clovis is going to try to save a backup of himself in the frame to merge with Rasputin and try to control it.

Calling it now! He's going to try to take control of Rasputin and Rasputin is going to be like "Oh hell naw!"

"Once I am in control, all will be as it should be". That line from the introductory quest to this season keeps playing in my head.

Reasons not to trust Clovis Bray: - he's Clovis Bray

Here is hoping we get a scene with Banshee and Clovis this season. Its overdue.

I may be misremembering but isn't what makes the "time wounds" bad is that they screw up time completely within that pocket? I'd assumed what we were stepping into was a collision of points in time

I think the dialogue between Osiris and Ana explains the time rifts best. The rifts are NOT our past they are alternate timelines converging on Mars. So, judging the landscape, etc. by what we know happened in our timeline wouldn't work. I honestly think this Futurescape is in a timeline where the war minds are what we thought they were. Charlemagne is the warmind for Mars in that timeline. Would be really cool if I'm right.

Best explanation for Futurescap is that only the Warmind facility is caught in a time rift and everything else is present.

When I first saw him introduced as the season vendor I mumbled to myself “better not give him legs” but honestly Clovis AI I’m general seems clever enough to have a back door he is just sitting on to do something we don’t like

I like the idea that Kelgorath is so useless, Xivu personally ensures he doesn't die, as he doesn't deserve it. It's nice to have re-occurring enemies like Fikrul or Alak-hul but Kelgorath kinda just seems like the "G1 Starscream archetype" of character, where he's constantly trying to be important, but always ends up as a joke of a failure. *And I love every second of it.*

The most logical explanation I can think of is that the “time wound” is more like a convergence of timelines and not tied to one specific moment. I could be way off but it’s a theory nonetheless.

In a heist I did earlier today, Clovis actually propositions the guardian to be a part of his personal guard. Of course to “help humanity”, but he wants to be the one and only being the guardian works for. He ends with something like consider it thoroughly so we “make the right decision” when the time comes. He definitely wants to overtake or control Rasputin to rule the sol system

That Mara Elsie convo was great and it was crazy to me that I never saw the parallels between the two before

I don't think they are portals to the "past" per se, I think they are the here and now and the Pyramids are just switching the places they want from different realities that are at a different time than ours, I don't think they can time travel, but I think they can shift between realities and choose the time and place they are arriving at.

When you're trying to bust into the actual vault, after doing the escalation protocol part, Ana even comments she was the one changed the door codes. Then the Hive did, too. That means that room is from the current, which means only the mindlab itself is what is in the past.

Personally I took Clovis' dialogue as the Mind Lab itself being the only thing in the rift, however I do think they should have made that a little more clear visually. Returning to Mars was really cool though, now I really want them to further explain why they can't just bring back the entire destination.

As far as the temporal wound is concerned, Osiris says the wounds are more like windows into "versions of the past", or parallel realities. So, this is an alternate past, one overrun by Xivu Arath's Hive as they try to secure Charlemagne for the Witness. I'd say post-Collapse, given the snow and wear. As for Kelgorath the Cockroach/Risen from Bones...Sorry, but the only way we'll be getting rid of him is to find him in Xivu's Throne World and kill him there. Like how Guardians keep coming back no matter how many times you kill them if you don't get their Ghosts. Or he's the Hive's version of Taniks. One day, we'll have to deal with him as a Raid boss.

Clovis be like: Look at me! I am the warmind now

I would absolutely love a clovis x moth mommy crossover season just to see the vanguard afflicted by crippling anxiety

Doesn't Elsie have a New VA? Also Gotta enjoy seeing all 3 Brays together, here's hoping for a Banshee and Clovis interaction

I absolutely LOVED the dialogue this week, especially Elsie's. I don't think I've ever heard someone get cut off during comm dialogue, and it felt so powerful.

Clovis raised some red flags this week in the story. I was surprised by Elsie's new voice, but I actually like it. But yeah, Clovis is MAJOR SUS!!! I'm also so happy that we FINALLY got CHARLEMAGNE in the game! And that conversation between Elsie and Mara. Hoo. That hits hard.

I love Clovis desperately trying to cling onto scientific explanation in the face of the absolute deluge of space magic that surrounds him

I really enjoy the entire presentation of your videos. They're very immersive for me and I'm just here to enjoy the lore, etc so I never noticed until now that you have almost one million subscribers. Congratulations on that and I can absolutely see why so many people enjoy your work. I hope it continues for as long as D2 is around. Thanks!

It would be interesting for the climax of this season being Rasputin trying to wrest control of his arsenal after Clovis steals the warsats, with Ana and Mithrax sending us into the Exo’s mind to help Rasputin fight Clovis. Then, for the conflict to end with Rasputin being rebuilt and integrated into his Exo body, while Clovis ends up stuck in the engram as a prison. It’d be a great end to the season. It’d be a great way to end the season. It’d also be great if Rasputin altered his Exo body to reflect his personality as the Warmind (as see in some fanart) to further emphasize how Rasputin has grown to become more than a machine. He’s known trust, tragedy, joy, guilt, and like his namesake, he’s too stubborn to die to the Witness.

The impression I got was that it was just the inside being affected, not the whole area.

I actually like Clovis, he’s such an interesting character and the voice actor is good, excited to see what happens with his character

Merry Christmas to Byf and crew!!

Been waiting for you to make a topic on clovis🥺👊🏽

I never trusted Clovis from the start

Clovis Bray is absolutely trustworthy. You can trust him to always act in what he sees as humanity's best interest (ie, whatever is best for Clovis Bray.)

Definitely agree about the time rift thing. Even just a single distorted wall in front of the door would have fixed it. I thought that the time wounds would be a way to excuse the reintroduction of old patrol spaces and missions when those planets eventually return. So the D2 Mars would be surrounded in a time wound that replayed the events before arrivals including the campaign. The D1 mars would be in a time wound that took place during rise of iron. They provide plenty of excuses to have unchanged locations, but you can't say that they AREN'T from the old time periods and instead a co.pketwly new one, while still having things unchanged. What should have been done is either a time wound as we enter the vault, or just not say it's golden age Charlemagne.

Hello Byf, i can explain why about the time hopping confusions, as Osiris said based on what he said on the time rifts, like the Infinite Forest, they are doorways into parallel realities. Different versions of pasts or futures that may appear identical to our own by not the same as things may have happened in those points that did not happen in ours.

I think as far as the timeframe of the mars location, it might be before the taking of the planets but after Rasputin’s defeat. So basically season of the arrivals? <a href="#" class="seekto" data-time="442">7:22</a>

It’s a shame that the lore for the Mars mission was such a mess, because I had soooo much fun playing it. It felt great to step back into the sands of Mars, reactivate the escalation protocol, and walk up to the mindlab once again. Mars was a great destination and it’s a real shame it’s gone

Re: the time snarl: I have to assume that whatever the time situation is with the Futurescape it doesn't extend out to where the Pyramid is. Indeed, it could be localized to just the Mindlab, which is why the interior of that room is the only thing that constitutes a major change to the floor plan (Hive gunk blocking a passageway doesn't count). But were that the case, why wasn't there a time rift effect in front of the door? Seems like an oversight.

i know this is a video about clovis but im just looking at the duo hive wizards. specifically at <a href="#" class="seekto" data-time="825">13:45</a> cuz the wizards look like theyre wrathborn. if xivu arath can turn hive as powerful as those 2 into wrathborn im actually extremely curious about what else she can turn. maybe even guardians? i dont remember too much about what happened with aisha and all the guardians in the trials equipment lore tabs but i do know they were corrupted by the darkness. what if xivu arath gets so powerful with this wrathborn creation whether due to the witness's power or through trial and error that she can make us her mindless puppets?

Looking at the Destiny Reddit and seeing people say they like Clovis more than Ana and Elsie because are written like “woke children” because they hate the guy. I seriously saw a guy without any hint of irony compare Clovis to Rick Sanchez as if we were back in 2017 and as if Ana and Elsie were just too stupid to understand him.

Shout out to the voice acting this season. And honestly at least Clovis has a plan. Let's hear it! Clovis for new Hunter vanguard

Really appreciated your critique of the inconsistencies on Mars, it really seemed kind of half-assed. I wonder if Clovis is going to try and hijack Rasputin and take him over? Could mean a Clovis boss fight at the end. I'd hate to see him go though, his voice actor is just amazing. Great videos, great lore, keep up the good work.

Yay!!! I’ve never been this early for a Byf video!!

I'm _preeetty_ sure the most logical explanation for why Mars in the time heist looks the same as it did in SOA, is because the location is reused content, and Bungie was either too lazy to update it or forgot to.

His voice always commands respect. I love it.

It makes sense for some things you mentioned, the pyramid is there on the horizon outside the time construct. In the first mission of savathun, you can enter the time fields and see the modern stuff, but its still possible to see the outside world as it is. They are rifts, little bits of time, not all encompassing. What you need happens to be in one, not everything else around it.

I loved the Hellas Basin on Mars. Seeing it again was really fun. But I do agree that more could have been done to clarify what was happening in the mindlab we go to.

I trust Clovis as much as I trust Bungie to make meaningful seasonal content

okay im gonna pull a theory for this perhaps the way hellese basin look when we do the hiest might be that this time wound is a bit wonky yes its going into the past but given this is the witness wanting the submind it may have altered it to only where the submind is from the outside of the mindlab its mars during arrivals but inside its golden age so that may explain why the futurescape is a bit odd in how its deigned

Stupid question- what’s the name of that auto rifle (I think) at the start of the video? Thanks!

The dialogue at the end of the mars heist, with Ana and Osiris, where they discuss the timelines as they're presented in the rifts. Specifically they talk about how we can't influence future events by changing things in the "past" because what's in these rifts is not "our" past, just a version of it. They're alternate realities. I know that's apologetics for Bungie's sake, but it does mean that we can't say things like "the snow doesn't make sense, because that's Rasputin's doing and not Charlemagne, etc." We're not privy to the precise details of the timeline we're visiting, maybe the state of things does make sense.

BRO thank you I was thinking the same thing for some reason I couldn’t trust Clovis I didn’t have any evidence but it was just a feeling. Another thing that bother me is if it was a rift in time how come they couldn’t get more information out of the warmind fragment they could have gotten a lot more from if it’s from the past since everything is still intact

Hey byf what gun was that you were using in your last video it looked like it had rwo sights on it and I'm guessing it's an smg what's it called and how do I get it keep up the awesome work mate your loyal lore servant

I missed this season, is there anyway beyond youtube videos to replay/relive it?

One of the things I have come to realize with Bungie, after the Forsaken came out and especially the Witch Queen (specially the legendary campaign) is that I don't have to really engage with the game beyond the expac and raid. If Bungie is able to produce legendary campaigns equal to the Witch Queen, I will treat this Destiny 2 like a box game ignore the low effort seasons. I'm happy content creators like Byf and Myelin games are here to keep me up to date on the lore.

Did Osiris not explain it after? Maybe I misunderstood but when asked if we risked our future, he said no it was another place and time, where we impact the future of others (or something like that?)

About the time warping - I agree with all of your points about "what this should look like", except for one. The Pyramid Ship would probably still be there, assuming it's outside the time rift-affected area.

a possible explanation about the time periods of Mars, which, i think is the likely explanation bungie will give if this is revisited, is that alot of the futurescape is within a theoretical pre-warmind, post collapse time, but that on the horizon, we are seeing OUT of the timescar, to the present day; meaning the Martian Pyramid is actually, modern day, *there.* This opens many doors, obviously, and can put a neat bow on the inconsistencies here.

What weapon is Byf using in the background footage? It looks like the DMT but its an arc weapon...

Frankly I'm surprised at no mention of Clovis's private chat with the Guardian... trying to put us in his pocket as well, thinking we can be bought out.

Byf, any word on possibility of consuming Vex Milk as seen in the Dawning event? Is it because it's a small quantity? Or is it because it's somehow changed by the Oven? Also, which is superior forbidden dairy: Vex Milk or Taken Butter?

Could the past part be explained in that it isn't entirely a past but like several different ages overlapping each other like you see in some parts of mars in this expansion? The true answer likely is just reusing assets but I think that explanation could make sense a bit.

Can someone tell me what ornament he's using on what looks like DMT? Thank you

This is around the area where I got my 1st ever catalyst for my crimson. Especially from a commander that was sending out a bunch of psions which he knew a lot of them would die but it was a sacrifice he was willing to make

My thought is that only the warmind lab is within the time rift. Like the ones in the witch queen campaign we're like 30ft wide at best, they don't cover huge swathes of area.

I noticed that the mission tileset is the origional lay out of mars of the season of the warmind and top of the bunker is the same as rasputin's main control room just redesigned to be used as the "new" warsat bunker

I came here expecting lore and we got not only lore but we got to hear a bunch of criticism and a roast to boot. Awesome video

I dont if you plan on making a video but this week I noticed there were Caitl cabal soldiers dead outside during the final mission for the seasonal quest.

Is the title of this video a direct response to the title of Aztecross’s video?

Didn't the dialog in the first week state that Rasputin splintering into subminds was a defensive mechanism that happened during Season of Arrivals? If that's the case, then the pyramid ship, the snow on the ground, the Hive and the Taken... all of it makes sense. Just because it's the past doesn't mean it's supposed to be the Golden Age.

About the time-scar thing. I think it is supposed to be only the mindlab chamber (and the gate room) that is in the time-scar. The greenish lighting in that area makes me think that. The outside seems to be post-Arrivals, with the Pyramid, more Hive corruption and some Taken orbs. But yeah, it’s still a bit confusing at first glance and I might be wrong. Also yeah, that boss rugged me as familiar but I couldn’t exactly pick from where xD

Going to make a quick comment on <a href="#" class="seekto" data-time="339">5:39</a>. The thing that we don’t know about all the time warps on Mars is that we don’t know if all of them are set back to the Golden Age. We know that the ones where we started The Witch Queen campaign were all linked back to the Golden Age, but not the ones by Hellas Basin. For all we know, the time warps could be different depending on where on Mars you are. So Hellas Basin, could be linked to much more recent times while the ones by The Hidden’s outpost could be linked to the Golden Age.

Since the mind lab is stuck in the time warp, it might explain why so many different timelines are converging in one place

Now that job opening of the Lore Advisor or whatever it was makes alot more sense.

<a href="#" class="seekto" data-time="551">9:11</a>-<a href="#" class="seekto" data-time="646">10:46</a> might unironicly be the most humorous tangent from Byf I've heard in a long time.

are the scourges designed off of Byf's Savathun? or atleast a version of it??

I camnot shake the feeling that Kelgorath is being set up to become the boss of the reprisedcl Sunless Cell strike, for when we eventually return to the Dreadnaught, in the same way Navota has replaced Omnigul in the Disgraced strike.

When I saw the names of the two brood queens I was so excited it was so cool to see such old and potentially powerful entities in the hive

With the new Mars battleground I also wondered why they just reused the sunset Mars location, didn't change the sky box to make it look post witch queen or pre warmind, it's just so weird. I also would have liked to return to Mars to explore, not just have a couple missions there.

Fun fact about the hive, one of those loose hangers on are Nokris’ forces, who joined the lucent hive

"Kelgorath is a massive loser." I fell over 🤣🤣 I just need byf pointing in a picture with this quote!

Thought the time rift is inside Rasputin's diamond and was the reason Charlemagne was there, but really I'm just happy we had mars back for the time being. As for the 2 hive wizards, I believe that hive at that time would have had plenty of hive soldiers that would and could have survived that long unnoticed and unused by xivu arath, most likely some of the first hive created on fundament and survived through all hive conflicts up until now... it's not like every single hive what lives for an eon needs to be memorable? Only the ones that matter, that being the trio of gods, I'm sure there's still a handful of original fundament hive still remaining in xivu's army. But I'll admit killing them off this easily is a little underwhelming. But it still lines up in my mind.

Yknow i never noticed it but now that ya point that out i think from an environment standpoint a real missed opportunity. leave in all the glaring issues and assets but put more into the time wound things like the beginning of the lure when ya see the corn fields like what the witness was moving everything doctor strange like just to see what Rasputin knew or possibly knew

as for the time inconsistanceies. we never actually see where the time would splices the area on mars so it could be that it is simply within the facility itself where the mind is located that the time would has sent things back

Mars could still be in the Arrivals (but worse since the taking) state except for the Mindlab because the time rift may be localized there. So the facility looks current (worse than when we left it) but the Mindlab is in the past. The interesting bit to me is that during Mars' taking the Hive infestation got way worse and they weren't taken so they lived and thrived in that taken dimension. If you think of the time rift as being a pocket in the facility this makes sense sincr we've seen from the first mission in Mars from witch queen that rifts can be only a few yards across.

What if Rasputin just effortlessly and suddenly zaps Clovis to death at the end of this seasonal quest? That would be kind of hilarious! Can’t wait to see what happens, and I BET you’ll make it to ONE MILLION SUBS before Lightfall releases! Great content as always, much love from Texas!

I love “salty” BYF. I’m also glad he pointed out the discrepancies with bringing back Mars. I have no issues with Bungie reusing spaces, I’m actually for it, it was fun to go back there, but they need to do it right. Like if that whole zone was in the past why is it covered in Hive gunk? I’m also fully in the camp that Clovis is in league with the Witness. He’s all about power and who can offer him the most?

The braytech time wound is set at some point after Anna had taken over control of the place. We know this because ahe explains to Clovis that she is the one who changed security access commands from what he was expecting them to be, before the hive changed them again. So this place in time is at least sometime after Anna's awakening as a Guardian; which she waxes nostalgic about in her holo message. Somewhere within that span of time, she must have moved Rasputin's primary self to the Mindlab. I dont know what she would have done with Charlemagne at that time.

Taniks and Kelgorath should compete for the title of “Most Canonical Deaths”

Just wanted to add that you can use your barrier to block the warmind threat detectors if you’re in a tight position

The pyramid ship being there is not really a lore breaking problem imo, because the pyramid ship is probably not affected by the time rifts the witness created. Because why would it?