@@Mazin_Kaiser they might be able to make that work, with the Vex robots being like the ultimate version of an Exo, and the radiolaria being the "final shape" of organic life or something. It'd invalidate the Vex lore we get from Clovis's journals but it wouldn't be the first time something like that happened :T
What I find curious about the Wish Keeper quest location is the fact that Vex is protecting the lair in the first place. Vex would never have any motives to protect anything unless it's directly connected to the Vex or its something the Vex collective wishes to study and simulate to understand. So either Vex made some sort of deal with the dragon or the Ishtar copies stumbled upon the dragon and made a deal with it and in turn took control of the local vex network in order to safeguard the lair.
I doubt the Vex would even be able to comprehend an Ahamkara, as they are paracausal in nature. But I would suspect that Taranis' prescence afforded a level of protection the Vex could exploit, so they ran with it.
@@GoldAnthroWolf they could have seen an opportunity to do the same thing as the Nine. The Nine aren't paracausal, but they used wishes as a source of paracausality up until the Great Hunt. The Vex should be at least as smart as some clouds of dark matter, it's just a matter of whether or not the Bungie writers want to work with an idea like that
@@eotwkdpCould be! Then again, everyone seems to know how to navigate and interact and pratically 'hack' the vex network. Like, I can't fathom how humans/awoken, etc can hack it, as it's literally billions of years old technology. Then again, I guess if you hit a plateau on the whole technology, eventually someone will come along and figure it out.
@@xXx_Regulus_xXxThey nine are not Paracausual? I was pretty sure they said they were, or a form of it, because of their nature. Still, who only knows WHAT the Vex would even wish for. They could techincally wish for the end of the SOL system, but I don't know if the Ahamkara's power is that strong. Perhaps they wished for something more subtle, and we'd never even notice it!
maybe when we do the Vex episode after Final Shape we find out that the Ishtar Collective now work with the Vex and can give the Vex a personality or villian which said group has sorely been lacking
I keep thinking back to when it was mentioned that the Vex units we've seen are not even combat units and that the species have yet to deploy their military. I am not sure what to make of that.
Yeah, that's the disturbing part about the whole Vex concept. ALL the Vex you encounter, even the powerful minds, are all facilitator units, processing, terraforming units. I can't imagine what the actual war forces would be like. Then again, Wyverns seem to be VERY combat focused, compared ot the other units, then there's also Hydras, but who knows!
@@WhoisPersona this is a very good question... Imagine mf vex army fighting aphelian in the other corner of the universe Sol devise is just the research team in task to understand the nature of the real enemy
This channel has the best content to eat food while watching or to have playing in the background while you're doing something else. Long videos with interesting content on D2's lore makes for a good video to enjoy.
Always had a theory that the Vex were actually the Ishtar Collective from the past that discovered time travel. And also in D1 the stranger was talking to someone thru her comms. I believe that person she was talking to was our guardian from the future.
8:02 who else did Skolas work with? The Nine... who did Mara strike a bargain with? The Nine... remember 'the asset' (cocytus) and the meeting with Mara Sov and The Emissary? The roots of the Citadel go deep into the heart of the planet. The spire is the metal trunk of a very, very big tree. Sort of. "The Nine's agent never told me why he released me. Now I know. You know also, I think. Both of you require the Guardians... and the Nine do not understand life and death. So they sent me back to you, to make the Guardians come. You, Mara Sov... you are the only one who bargains with them. You are the only one who has foreseen their role in the game. You keep your successes secret, so the world only knows your mistakes. No wonder I underestimated you." "I saw the shape of the Nine on Venus. A place that was once precious to them, where wishes could transfigure their flesh. I saw that they are bound to this star and to these worlds. You are of a kind in that way, you and the Nine. Not I. I will be glad to leave this world, Mara Sov. I am tired of being a pawn." Red War radio... "I am the door. I open unto the void. One day the Masters will step forth. And then, you will know..." Then, the icing on the cake. "Hey Anzani? I'm detecting a ... you know what, never mind. I swear that frame is losing it. What? Oh, it's nothing. It keeps reporting an intermittent signal on the flagship's signal band out near Saturn. It's a comms ghost, that's all. I've done a dozen scans. There's nothing out there." Commtech Thedren Pell
Also, can you cover the story on Anomaly 779? It may be part of post final shape? Then he asked me, “So how does the universe work?” I pretended to take my time, considering various smart answers. But I ended up using my first impulse. “Effortlessly,” I said. He laughed. Which wasn’t uncommon for my father, but it was heartening to hear just then. “What else can you tell me?” he asked. “The universe is infinite and probably in multiple ways,” I said. Then I listed a few examples: The census of stars, the Many-Worlds principle in quantum mechanics, and the endless measure of tiny realms hiding inside every grain of Martian sand. Father nodded. The smile died. Then he said something ominous. Although I didn’t appreciate it at the time. “The universe is someone’s map,” he said. “Is it?” I muttered. - Ghost Fragment: The Golden Age Father was standing beside a big gray building. "This is what I want you to see," he said. The building had no doors or windows. "Do you know how to make a strong password?" he asked. "I don't know if I do," I said. "Tell yourself a story," he said. "Use that one good story you'll never forget, that you can carry forever. Let your story take odd turns and wear a few surprising marks, make sure it belongs to you, so you can keep it secret." Father kneeled, putting our faces close... "I want to show you something special," he said. "Something rare." I tried to imagine what that might be. "No," he warned. "You can't guess." Inside the gray building was a diamond wall...A projected sky floated above us. It wasn't our sky, alive with metal and light. Nothing about the grayness was wet and nothing looked alive. I had never seen a sadder piece of ground. "This was our world," Father said. "When I was your age." I touched the diamond wall. He watched my hand jump back. "Hot," I said. He laughed quietly. I shook my burnt hand, and it felt better. "Our world was this. The entire planet was a furnace. Acidic. Dead in so many ways. And I was your age." I was bored with the dead world. I looked at Father's face, asking, "Can we leave?" He started to reach for my hair again but decided not to. I was bored with everything. "When I was your age, people thought they knew almost everything. We had scientific laws and human truths, even a model of the universe. People carried pictures of the past and tried to have a clear vision of their difficult future. I didn't know everything, of course. But when I was a boy, I had every expectation of living a smart short life and learning quite a lot more. "Then the Before was finished. "You know why. "That's when everybody, particularly the smartest of us, learned that we knew nothing. We were children and our little ideas were toys, and the universe was cut apart with great ideas and magnificent, immeasurable potentials." Father stopped talking. I stepped away from the hot diamond wall. "Do you know what I wanted to show you?" Father asked. "Dead rock," I said. "Guess again." He wasn't happy with me. We stepped back into the real sun, the real world. I blinked and looked around, surprised by how green and bright everything was. How happy everything was. Even the saddest face was happy. "I know what you want me to see," I said. "Don't tell me," he said. I didn't tell him. - Ghost Fragment: The Golden Age 2 Anomaly 779 (Never-Be) Skyscape fresco of smart crystals and pigments in a ceiling of Vestan plaster and diamond ribbing. Apparent size: 14.4 x 3.55 x .022 meters Participants witness images set in an undetermined orbital habit. 5 to 77 images are generated per participant. The quantity seems insensitive to the participant's time of exposure. Participants experience strong intuitions. Modal self-reports include: An electric sense of belonging to a cause. The intuition that a pivotal truth is about to be delivered. A persistent foreboding that lingers for days to years. Amorphous grief. Agape love. Outlier reports include the hum of wind, the scent of lilacs, changes in apparent gravity, the ability to sing perfectly, and the perception of flesh as transparent. One corner was damaged during the move to the present location, affording a glimpse into the work's interior. Key materials have not been identified, but there is evidence that the fresco ties into quantum computers set in a parallel dimension or on a distant world. The work appears to be unfinished. - Vex Mythoclast …a causal loop within the weapon's mechanism, suggesting that the firing process somehow binds space and time into… Some legends live forever. Others are overwritten-reshaped by the sheer will of those who believe that any ordeal can be conquered, any foe vanquished, any god cast down. The Mythoclast is a Vex instrument from some far-flung corner of time and space, mysteriously fit for Human hands. Its origins, mechanism of action, and ultimate purpose remain unknown. Perhaps it will reveal itself to you, in time…
As much as I am curious to see where this lore thread goes, I can't help but think that the development schedule has forced "reuse these things and make the lore work somehow" type of decisions for development teams
I remember in Destiny 1, I commented to a few friends on how the Exo were going to be Vex technology, no one belived me. THen go figure, in D2, they come out and explain Clovis did indeed create the Exos from Vex tech. Also, people also seem to forget that the Vex also exist everywere, at the beginning and at the end of time, and throughout the whole universe. When clovis visited the Vex dyson sphere thing with his gate, it's in a whole other galaxy. Though, it's not expliciticly stated in what reality, as they've hinted VERY strongly, and even Elsie Bray, on the whole multiple timeline things. So the Vex in the canon universe could just be leaking over from another timeline as well, much like how supposedly the Ghost yanks you back from another timeline when you die. (paraphrasing it). Also, when the universe was brought into fruition, the Vex were the first to answer the question put forward by the Gardener and Winower, the light and the darkness. Now in what form, it's never said, but I doubt they were the mechanical constructs that we see today. Another thing to note about the Vex is that in Destiny 2's early history there were missions on Mercury in the past where you see the Traveler terraforming Mercury, and you see the Precursor Vex, very ornate shiny gold inlaid machines, not the dull brass constructs we see most comonly, or the decrpit types that are also overgrown with plants. Something else that was also thrown about is that the vex you kill, then reappear are the same exact vex you just killed, pulled through time. The reason that they do not look like the precursors is because they were simply tired of creating new units, when they could just recyle the same ones through time. A rather unique approach to disposable troops if you ask me. These are also the different faction of Vex as well, I belive it's 3, or four different factions, which are also sorta working against each other, to what end? Of all the races/specis in the Franchise, the Vex are literally the most obscure and unknown, even as prevalant as they are, because I don't even think Bungie knows what to do with them at the end of the day, so they just keep making up bullshit as each year goes by to make them sound even more Ooo and Ahhh mystical. At the end of the day, they're still little microbes in a glas container you get critshots with! ;D
There's been an ongoing joke/theory, that the devs take fan theories and create story from it So it's not us "calling it" in terms of lore development, it's the devs taking our theories and making it (I mean why pay someone to write a story, when you can use online theories)
I wouldn’t be surprised if The Citadel exists no matter where you look… and no matter where it is it’s always going to be THE CITADEL in some weird Vex way
The book of Aspect, added during Shadowkeep, talks about Praedyth encountering the Ishtard Collective researches copies and seeking a way out of the Vault of Glass/Black Garden, wherever in the Vex complex they are. Something I find.. somewhat mysterious is that Praedyth mentions Mir (Asher Mir): ["He's had this hallucination before. It's not that good, as hallucinations go: Praedyth's radio is talking to him, voices rising out of the static. He wishes it'd at least use a familiar voice, a Pahanin or Taeko or Kabr. He'd even take a Mir at this point." [...] "You said that already," he tells the hallucination, helpfully. It squawks, "I did? When?" "Last time." Or the time before. Chronology is a lost art in this cell. "Alert, spelunkers contact band two-two-seven dot nine-seven, something something, Skyshock potential…" His voice fades. It hurts to talk. "Say again?" The hallucination has a new voice this time, sharper, male. Nearly Mir-ish. "The band number?"] I really don't understand the relation nor the relevance.. [I miss Asher, I need hope :,v]
One thing to note is if destiny continues on after final shape the next big enemy could be the vex. It's assumed that majority of all guardians will go through the portal so the last cities defenses will be weak. Plus the vex have been well operating in the shadows and real quiet. The hive for the better part scattered. Same with red legion and cabals in general and the fallen are also in tatters. Same with witness forces in a way. The major player left Is the vex.
Hasn’t the tree stump in the Black Garden been very present? Back in D1 vanilla, you could see it across a vast red maze of flowers, you could see the stump. Then during GoS, you went inside the stump, now it’s here again?
I always found interesting the wording for the terraforming of planets and moons by the traveler, even by the "Traveler's" dreams itself, always giving the idea that The Traveler is not actually changing physical laws, but using the physical "memory" of the planet to pull what it wants from somewhere. Even though Osiris seemed to put it as simple physics, the terraforming seems to be more complicated than that. I sometimes wonder if this hints at something relating to the Traveler's Pale Heart
Note how one set of lines on the Ishtar logo is thinner on the Vex banner thing, and absent in the emblem. That kind of logo remixing was previously seen with SIVA, which takes the Warmind logo and removes a few pieces and flips one of the remaining pieces around. My take on this is that the researchers may have been changed by or merged with the Vex, or maybe this is the symbol of MSund12. Here's hoping we see something of the Ishtar researchers and Asher in the future.
I could see the Vex and the Ahamkara integrating. It would explain why some of the vex have dragon names, some of their behavior, could give them some paracausal access. The ink blot that showed the Ahamkara skulls pilled up together on one body has me hoping/wishing* for a Vex mecha King Ghidora thing...
I wanna say what other wishes exist besides Rivens. If Taranis has a way to record wishes like riven does with her dreaming city who's to say some random symbols in his lair could have some meaning he made a wish with others and he keeps something around as a reminder. This could lead up to something big like how we can learn to break a wish.
Subject 12 was name given to the "Vex specimen" in the Ghost Fragment Vex Grimore Cards. Msund12 is a reference to one of the 227 simulated copies of Maya Sundaresh
