Its been a while since I last played this game but I believe Hank commiting suicide is dependant on if you picked the more Human/Deviant options as Connor when you're with Hank, also not dying in front of him because I remember that being a bit traumatizing for him seeing Connor come back from the dead like its no big deal. If you want a more simple answer as to how I got him here I just used a save file where I picked the deviant options as Connor and chose to remain a machine.
@@Seadooers Oh, right. That makes sense now. Because when I played machine Connor, I chose more machine choices throughout the game and died a couple of times too which resulted in Hank being hostile with me for the majority of the game. He also shot me at one point too. I also didn’t get an option to become deviant because I had been too machine for most of the playthrough, which made Hank hate me and that’s when he killed himself. So if I am deviant for most of the game and then choose to remain a machine, he then appears at this point because he wouldn’t have died previously because he wouldn’t be initially hostile with me for most of the game. Right, I’ve got you.
All characters can be "villains" or "heroes" depending not only on their own stories, but also on how you play w/ other characters. If Connor is intending to shoot deranged Markus, is he really a villain? But then if Markus is demonstrating peacefully, Connor wouldn't be seen as a hero... and so on
It's kinda a easy solution on that too imo Just flip the conner and hank in the park at night segment for when they meet kamski. After the kamski test, conner can review over what they known via the players choices prior and see if theirs any connection that can lead them to jericho. During this hank can question on how conner acted towards some of the androids and interrogate him on his actions (serve more or less as a pseudo amanda if you will), even insisting on some of them. And it could be based on your responses on how conner would justify or rationalize his actions that can come off more deviant or machine (with software instability changing of course). And after a series of questions hank can draw his revolver at conner and it would just be the questioning if he fears death, and shortly after hank will say that he eavesdropped on that agent perkins call a few days back about him getting some gear set about a raid that'll be conducted at jericho tomorrow night and he'll ask what will conner do. And just like markus conner will choose if he's a deviant or a machine (or rather what I would go for is let the game decide) If a deviant conner will respond by him trying to warn them and hank will put down his gun (that way it establishes both that conner and hank are on the same team and maybe solve the "I'm the real conner" act that came off so forced by just having conner show off that he can turn androids into deviants). If a machine, conner will respond coldly and even saying he might lend a hand at killing markus, from that hank just shoot conner and akin to the base game going off on how hank is towards you. If a friend he can just make his way to the roof and a last ditch effort to have conner let the mission go. And vice versa hank dies and conner just completes his mission I dunno, to me at least this flow makes more sense to me than what we got
That would be good after story, detective themed Hank and Connor in Detroit. The story take off after deviant become free and some of the deviant do crime.
And maybe the RK900 could be the antagonist where he goes to neutralize the deviants the same as Connor but a war breaks out instead and have like some strategic moments like in the revolution part with Markus.
I always thought this should have been Connor's Deviant/machine moment. He didn't have any real history with Marcus, but struggling with obeying his programming or listening to Hank (or not dropping him off the roof) would have made for a particularly poignant deviant moment, with Connor becoming deviant due to the positive influence of a human rather than a negative influence (or a particularly chilling machine path where he drops Hank off the roof because he believes he's just a machine).
He can potentially go against his programming when he tries to shoot the deviant leader. Choosing not to will begin the "escape zen garden" sequence despite Connor still being a machine. So I suppose Hank can potentially influence Connor to be better that way.
I definitely get where you're coming from, but at the same time I kind of glad that's not what happened. In order to achieve Connor's deviance Hank has already been guiding him, step by step. Every time you save him or show concern he expresses gratitude. Every time you spare a deviant he's impressed or hopeful that Connor (and by extension the other androids) really are alive. Hank even brings the latter up multiple times to further pave Connor's way to freedom and humanity. But the final trial? That should be of Connor's own free will, his decision. If Hank does everything then he's just a new Amanda or Kamski, a better and more truthful mentor of course, but at the end of the day someone molding Connor to their vision. Instead it's mostly Connor's decision and a little bit of Marcus or North.
@@drobviouslol Not exactly, BunnyComet has a point. Machine Connor is pretty much a deviant in denial. You can clearly see that through the few times Connor is cursing when failing a mission or at the end of the game. When Amanda introduces RK900 to Connor and tells him that he'll be deactivated, he seems upset about it. But he shouldn't feel upset at all, if he was not a deviant.
Who doesn't? I wish the whole game was them solving crimes, and not just android related but realistically those would be the only cases they would get because they would be the best at them.
yeah he could have some kind of emotional breakdown after choosing to leave (and hence becoming deviant) explaining to hank how hard it is for him to know what's right. Maybe also that he would have been shut down if he hadn't followed his programm, and that he was scared or something. I feel like in this ending he really isn't "just a machine".
I strongly believe that "Machine" Connor is still a Deviant, it's just that he happens to channel is emotions into completing his missions. Hence why Machine Connor still shows emotions, swears when he fucks up etc
connor must've deviated on the assembly line i swear to god. he constantly defies hank's orders despite being assigned to him as his partner, he SO CLEARLY shows emotions when he fucks up, he even swears. he imitates human pain when struggling and in distress! it only becomes more apparent after you make him stay a machine because from that point onward he's just in a constant state of denial. he feels emotions but chooses to still side with the humans; he however isn't able to hide how the events unfolding around him impact him mentally. when amanda shows him the rk900 model at the end he looks distraught, upset and even afraid which should not happen if he's supposed to be a cold, emotionless machine. there's no way all those moments throughout the game that make him feel like a human are a part of his programming because he's supposed to act more human to appeal to humans, and he acts that way even when no one's watching.
Connor mentioning Cole on the rooftop was so different from the warehouse. Here, Connor's not Deviant and just using Cole as a manipulation against Hank. In the warehouse, Connor genuinely understands and feels guilt that Hank lost his son while under the care of another android. Their story was definitely my favorite.
Yes. Here he puts more emphasis to make it sound emotional, like "poor Cole didn't make it". While the deviant Connor does not try to push it too much and says "Cole didn't make it" quickly
Bruh, this was so weird. It's like connor goes from attempting in a very cold blooded manner to manipulate Hank into letting him continue using the death of his son (right after being accused of faking emotion) to continuing to speak to Hank in a highly vitriolic way as he makes the very human decision to spare both his and Marcus' life.
@@uzairahmed4197 As great as the game is, I’d say there’s some missed opportunities, I think it would have been cool if there was an option for Hank to make Connor a deviant and have Hank convince him instead of Markus, or an option for Luther to live on the boat ride, stuff like that, or for Connor/Kara to lead the revolution, but there’s only so much one can do with a game. And I like the game just as it is.
It felt like Cage forgot a scene where Hank discovers that his son died due to the 'only surgeon being high on red ice', because it seemed really asspulled. Hank seemed to warming up to androids (in a friendly run-through) but I never got the "I hate androids because they killed my son!" aspect of Hank if he actually knew that the "only surgeon in the futuristic hospital that could operate at the time" was the reason that Cole died (oh David Cage writing). Also, this should've been the scene where Connor becomes a deviant (if he doesn't at Jericho). While Marcus and Connor had no real relationship up until Jericho, Hank and Connor have been together the entire game. Moving the deviant sequence from on the ship with Marcus to on the rooftop with Hank would have been WAY more impactful.
While I don’t disagree, grief isn’t logical. I think the intention of this scene is that hank has worked past it to an extent and can see he was not being logical
100% agree, if he was convinced that no human fault was in play at all it would have lended a lot more weight to his hate towards androids. As it stands the tension seems very ... forced. They could have had it be like an IRobot type situation.
I don't think it was asspulled. I've always assumed that Hank knew about the human surgeon, but blaming it all on the android who actually did operate was easier and more "logical" in his state of grief. Only once he had his mind changed about androids did he rediscover the true blame that he always knew about deep down.
Something that I don’t understand is that both instances where two characters become deviant (Kara and Markus) they become deviant as a direct result of a human. But Connor is the only one who can turn deviant from another machine, one that he really didn’t have much history with until that point :/ I guess another way to look at it is that Markus and Connor are from the same line of units (if I recall, RK series) so it’s easier for Markus to influence him, somehow.
One thing that i'm still confused about is Connor's "human" flaws i guess you can say it, the rifle is shaking, you'd think an android could stay perfectly still and perfectly hold the rifle properly.
@@_red_crewmate This argument only goes so far. Yes the animation has been mocapped. However, it has also been worked on (trust me, if you only had rough mocap anims, you would call the game bad.). So if they wanted to remove the shaking, they could have. Now, there's possibly an in-lore reason that I am not aware of, or perhaps it is an artistic reason. Either way, because he's played by a human doesn't justify the end result, only the rough mocaps.
Well, based on the game they tried to make androids as close to humans as possible so that society would not be as afraid of them as you would be of say, Spot from Boston Dynamics. (Personally I find him adorable, but I can see how others would think he is creepy.) So they would program them with some human mistakes. But maybe it also had something to do with wind and stabilisation (like an ABS kicking in).
I want another game like Detroit.... I miss choice games... life is strange 3 coming soon but... Detroit put the bar so high that I need something close to it now...
I’d suggest you look into Star Wars: The Old Republic if you haven’t already. Though of course it is a decade old and isn’t as visually attractive as Detroit, it is very choice based and has a fantastic story. Also it’s free so it’s not like your wasting money if you don’t like it and stop playing :)
@@leodavid4384 true, I’ve just had some great experiences with KOTOR and SWTOR in particular and I’ve really fallen for it’s stories and characters harder than any of the other games. It’s more of a personal recommendation based on my preferences and some small similarities I see between Detroit and SWTOR. You’re statement is still completely valid tho 😂
I can just picture how this scene would play if Connor went deviant here - he staggers for a moment, looks at Hank’s raised gun and then down to the rifle in his own hands, then drops it like his hand is on fire. Then, instead of sounding condescending when he says “I hope you get over what happened to your son”, it comes out like a weak or beaten “I’m sorry, Hank.” Would make for one hell of a chance for Hank to slowly lower his gun and go up to Connor and give him a hug after a brief pause.
I like how Connor still shows a few signs of deviancy after being shot by Markus, he just refuses to accept that he's alive on the inside. The amount of detail in this game is just amazing and I love it.
You think? I was kind of disappointed it didnt have a greater impact😅 like Hank sparing him or something. Because he accuses him of being emotionless while some hours ago he tried to be a deviant but got killed xD I mean it wasnt even Connors fault
it's so wholesome, even though connor hates deviants, he still made a friend and doesn't want to hurt him. deep within him there's still something that's pushing him not to kill hank
This was kind of hard for me to get because even though Hank was my friend, I realized Connor’s status as a machine was a bit too high at the same time.
@@Seadooers what happen to connor after that? what happen to the revolution? did he proceed to find markus regardless ? same thing happen even you kill hank?
@@joerahmat5726 Connor still confronts Markus, and the story doesnt change, its just an alternate outcome to a situation that either involves Connor or Hank dieing. You only get this if you picked all the deviant/humanlike options when you're with hank but still chose to remain as a machine when confronting Markus on the boat.
Hank's character makes no sense to me here. He wants Deviants to be free so badly that he'll kill his friend for not being a Deviant, and also let hundreds of humans die in the aftermath instead of just ending this battle. His loyalty isn't to Connor, or to saving lives, it's to the Deviant cause, and that's confusing. It seems like he's more of a vehicle to force Connor into a morally challenging situation.
The sequel needs to be vastly diverse because it has to account for every option I want to see a sequel with Just Connor being a cold killing machine since that's my personal canon and favorite ending
It was so hard for me to get the machine ending, and I still couldn’t shoot Chloe. I ended up fighting with Hank but didn’t drop him off the ledge,then he tried to push Connor, I reacted to early not really realizing what I was doing so I threw him off anyway. I was heart broken
Annoys me how I made Marcus a murderous rebel, even killing a cop Hank knew, and Hank still sides with the Androids over letting Connor do the Job he and Hank were assigned for. I would've had it like if Marcus was a pacifists, this scene stays, but if Marcus was violent, then Hank helps you.
I wish they made another game or remastered this one or even ported it to other consoles. A lot more people need to play this game. It's really eye opening with its powerful scenes and choices.
It's interesting that, as long as Hank makes it to the end of the story, both versions of him come to the same realization about androids not being responsible for the death of his son.
"Androids have emotions! EMOTIONS! Except the ones I don't like!" - An alcoholic, jaded deadbeat cop who DEFINITELY isn't a terrible judge of character.
If Marcus won the Demonstration, in the end when Marcus speaks, you have an option where Connor either shoots or not Marcus from the public. When you choose not to shoot you have to push the Emergency exit just as if Connor would stay as a deviant on the scene behind Marcus. But if Marcus chose Revolution Marcus would have to fight the machine Connor. If in the revolution, Marcus fails before fighting Connor, Marcus would hide in a CyberLife shop, and then machine Connor goes into there, and Connor has an option to either shoot or not Marcus.
Thank you for this. Always wondered if there was a chance for Connor and Hank not to fight in the roof top scene. Will try this out on my playthrough :)
Everyone talks about i am the android sent by cyber life but not It wasn’t your fault lieutenant the truck skidded on a sheet of ice and your car rolled over
I would love it if they let connor shoot Marcus with Hank as your friend because Jericho had Terrible public Opinion and decided to be violent 90% of the way through. It’d be even better if Connor went deviant if Hank stopped Connor for a justified revolution. Overall I prefer peaceful Marcus and Deviant Connor.
I tend to hate violent revolutions, unless the circumstances are extreme they can be justified but in a world I think sentient ai would be accepted for forum discussion. We have hundreds of years of progress.
I remember my first playthrough, where I met Hank up here, but chose to fight him. It made for a very dramatic moment this close to the climax of the game.