DF64V - A Giant Killer On A Budget? 

I recently got my DF64V, largely based on this review, and I am very very happy with it. They seem to have fixed the motor issue as I haven't had a single stall or stutter even doing a cold start at 600 RPM with a light roast Ethiopian bean. Also I don't have much static on mine and the grinding is relatively clean.

64mm grinders have a huge advantage in that the burr options are much cheaper than 83mm. I would love to see you compare df64 gen2 w/ SSP MP, df64v with DLC and df83v2 with standard Itamill steel burrs as they all start to be in comparable price ranges with those burrs. If df64 + SSP MP tastes as good as df83 + standard burrs, that would be a HUGE advantage in favor of df64 gen2.

00:00 Intro 1:06 Notable Features 2:34 Basic Grinding Performance 4:03 RPM Setting Benefits 5:13 RPM Quirks and Downsides 6:04 Dosing Cup Quirks 6:27 Lagom P64 Comparison 8:27 Final Thoughts 9:39 Sponsored Squarespace Promotion

Now the Timemore 078s is about to ship. There could be an interesting 4 way comparison. Niche Duo VS Timemore 078s VS DF64V (or DF83) . They are all on very similar price range.

Thanks for the review! I have watched through many times and I have put in an order for one of these! I just want to note that when you measure dB levels, it's always good to also state the distance that it was measured at. Typically when measuring sound with a meter, you want to be 3ft or 1m from the source of the noise. Thanks again, I enjoy the videos you make!

I believe the wood platform is for function and pure aesthetics. It looks nice with the lid on top.

I pre-ordered a df64v. I had it not even three weeks when it died. (not sure if mine had a bad control unit). So, going budget definitely means you're gambling with these kinds of things . The team from espresso outlet was very helpful with returning it though.

4:40 wow that's a BIG visual difference for just changing the RPM I didn't think it was that apparent. It kinda looks like you're getting more larger particles at lower RPM. It sounds like with this grinder you did end up noticing similar taste difference with RPM like you did with the P64 test in your other video where you tend to get more flavour clarity at lower RPM and more body at higher RPM, I found this is generally the case with the (three different) variable RPM grinders I've tried.

Apparently with the earlier DF64V they had the control board set a bit too conservative to protect against actually stalling or jamming up. Espresso outlet sells the updated board or you can get it from them if you bought the grinder from them i believe. My p64 has stalled for light roast espresso at the lowest rpm settings but its more like a hesitation where it resumes after a fraction of a second. Mine may be even older when the min rpm was actually even lower at 200rpm! I think it's the stock burrs in the df64v that are the reason why it's so loud and shrieky the MP SSP burrs are also a bit like that but probably not quite as annoying ha. Mizen burrs in the p64 are actually pretty nice sounding in comparison.

Dosing cup to portafilter has helped me a ton with consistency. Will never grind into the portafilter again.

Recently change over to the Lucca DF64 as my daily driver. I have been trying to use a Ceado E5P as my single dose grinder, for the past 2 years. It was a pandemic buy. The Lucca DF64, for my daily espresso, for me has done an outstanding job so far. Grinder options over the past few years, has greatly increased in the sub $700 range. The Ceado has been relegated to grinding pour overs. My long term concerns are that the DF64, will not last in the long term, either motor or switch will give out. Yes, I would like to have a P64, but can't justify the cost, but you just never know. Thanks

Thanks for the review. What's interesting is reviews in the past have mentioned the plastic cup feels cheap, and it seems they listened with the metal dosing cup. However many users love the plastic as they can see if the grounds are level in the portafilter. The variable rpm is probably frustrating for companies as reviews of other grinders in the past will complain if the speed is too fast (too many fines) or too slow (takes longer to grind). I'm sure there is a speed that optimizes a certain burr set, but the manufacturer is stuck with getting review dings for a speed if they don't make it variable. (like the 330 rpm Niche Zero complaints are how long it takes to grind 30 grams - does that really matter? The conical burrs do matter, but the speed in relation to how long it takes? If the uniformity of ground size distribution is the goal does the speed at which it gets there matter? ) For me it seems increasing the RPM on the flat burrs is trying to reproduce the fuller body (muddiness) you get with conical burrs, then again it is a range that affects texture and taste.

I recall hearing somewhere that the stalling is a safety feature, to avoid grinder damage. But it's clearly too sensitive our of the box.

Torn between this and DF83, similar price.. my first grinder.. and now i dont know what to go for :P

Thank you, very helpful 👍

Nice shirt, odd crossover I wasn't expecting on a Friday afternoon 😉

One thing about your grinder videos i truly appreciate is your “tight shot” of the burr when spinning. There seems to be a correlation between build quality and grind consistency with drive shaft wobble. 7:32 you can see how the DF64 wobbles a lot more than the Lagom. The wobble will be seen better in half video speed. Can you really align a burr set properly with that much wobble? This wobble reminds me of your Weber Key video, where you can clearly see that the drive shaft wobbles.

Thank you for your review! Def was waiting to hear from you before thinking of getting one. I’m curious if they’ll come out with a “V2” soon, something I’ve noticed in the DF lime

Funny with the Lagom P64, also with a 300w DC motor, I only ever got MINI Stalls that quickly recover and resume grinding after a fraction of a second, at like 200-400RPM maybe (RPM setting of 1-2 out of 9, just for really light roasts at espresso setting) which is much lower than even the DF64v CAN GO. I think the SSP cast burrs seemed to be worse for stalling/hiccups on mine (had a stall happen on RPM setting of 3 which never happened with other burrs), with the Mizen burrs strangely it seems less prone to stalling even though they're a similar design, but maybe I just haven't been doing espresso at so low RPM with those. I believe the older P64s min RPM was 200RPM, so on your model it might actually be 200RPM not 300 RPM you're grinding at! They seemed to change it in their manual and website at some point to 300RPM. That's one downside of not having the actual RPM numbers displayed on the grinder. I noticed there's a lot of similar things on the DF64v (the anti-popcorn thing), dial and power button placement, adjustment knob, it is missing the ball bearing a lot of the fancier grinders have though. I kinda like the digital RPM display, and jumps / settings are small enough, but the analogue 'stepless' RPM dial on the P64 is nice to use and probably more reliable long term, although you might not know the exact RPM without the quickguide as a reference :p

Lagoom P-64 for me. A wonderful review, fun and informative. The stalling of DF64S is the main reason I wouldn’t even think of buying it. I spy with my little eye a new review in the near future. Looking forward to it.

I used df64v it never jamed even in low rpm and fine grinds It shut off because of safty the motor is capable of any thing really It is the manufacture idea to keep extra safty I think to ensure minimum maintenance if any things would cause any overload

DF dose cup always rattle madly in previous model, that is the reason for separate base. I think.

Would love to see a mechanical engineer take these grinders apart and figure out why the DF is jamming. Does it produce less torque at a given RPM? Does it weigh less overall leading to reduced angular momentum of the rotating parts? Or is it an issue of wobble as some other comments pointed out? Hmmm!

I see a la spaz back there that looks an awful lot like mine :)

While it does seem like a great option for a lower budget I feel like that stalling was so painful to watch, but I can totally see plenty of people willing to deal with it.

I had a Eureka Mignion Sipenzio and I am thinking of upgrading to a single dose grinder. What should I upgrade to The Niche Duo or DF64V ? I like the DF but worried it might not last long. Any advise ?

Mine has only jammed when set to the lowest rpm and using a light roast. A little frustrating, but I prefer the higher rpm range anyway so it's not too big a deal

I'm still looking forward to your Varia scale review! 🤞

Thank you for the review. Enjoyed it.

How do you like it compared for the timemore 64s?

Looks like the stalling was due to a control board issue. Do you have any plans to re-test with a replacement?

Many thanks for this.

Looking forward to that a53 review :)

Also just wanted to add that I got this grinder about 2 mo ago. I only use light roasted coffee and I have not had a stall. But I only got start it and I never dump the entire 18gs at once. I like the grinder and the coffee that comes off it but I don't like the stand. It often shifts and I won't catch it until the grinds have overshot the dosing cup. Also I have noticed some random chirping of the burr set which concerns me some.

I'm pretty skeptical that the differences are as huge as some people make it seem. Or at least I'm extremely skeptical that I could really tell a difference. Especially since I'm home roasting different, yet super high quality beans all the time.

Wow... Getting a stall is a total deal breaker imo! What's the point of adjustable RPM if it makes the grinder jam?! Seems like they need a recall or a V2 before going mass production! QUESTION: What would you favor, upgraded 64mm SSP burrs or stock DF83 burrs? I noticed it would pretty much be the same price so what would be best? Another thing is 83mm SSP is somehow so much more expensive than 64mm 😔

Hey everyone, when grinding finer you mentioned “loud screeching sounds”. How fine is it at what rpm? How's its noise compared to Niche Zero?

Nice video Spro! Where are you usually setting RPM for espresso on your p64? Also, have you checked out the Mizen burrs? Looks like you might have the SSP MP in there now? Would be great to hear your POV on the Mizen burrs.

Thanks for the review. All of the other videos I have seen on this had me wondering about the motor as that high pitch sound when it grinds makes me thing the gearing isn't up to snuff and is probably causing the stalls/sound.

Very clear review. Thank you! I have one question. How do you address a stall (jam?) and does this require starting over with a new load of beans? Have never had this problem with my 12-year old grinder, but am curious about the process of clearing jammed beans and continuing (or starting over).

Would like to see you identify the RPM it ground at in a blind taste test.

I’ll keep my P64. If the DF64V jams that often then it is not long for this world - either because the motor will burn out, brushless or not, in short order or because I would throw it in the trash out of frustration.

hello Sprometheus, the shot of the talking head is very choppy, and the motion blur is wrong, since all the other shots look fine then i would assume that you know how to set correct shutter angle, I suspect you are shooting on a green screen and you had to up the shutter speed to make the keying easier and better, Now to solve this chopiness i would suggest that you add motion blur in post, it's extremely easy and would make the shot very smooth and natural, other than that the videos are cool. keep on doing what you are doing

UGH. It seemed to have it all: small single dose, anti-popcorning, variable RPM, 300W motor, a good de-clumper at last, magnetically removable chute for cleaning, easily accessible burrs, SSP-level set, LOW RETENTION. Then just when the going gets good, something unsavoury hits the unsuspecting like a cool seagull on a clear blue day. Again I have to worry about the motor stalling because it might blow out. And I was so ready. This grinder was planned as a proper initiation for me in diving into light roast flavours without compromise, as the specs had so conveniently suggested. My foray into the world of flat burrs and away from the land of Breville. But... Smeagol wantses to spend money on the precious... good grinder still isn't it? GGGHH. Anyway. Some other reviewer actually mentioned that one of the magnets fell off and he had to superglue it back on the chute, which begs the question just how shoddy craftsmanship the rest of the grinder might have that we don't know of yet. I'm gonna try holding out, let it soak some more on the market so more experience can be had -and watch the price go up even more.- Thanks for covering the DF64V.

Thank you my friend.

Just to try and clarify the jamming for myself… I would use RPM the same as you - lower for pour over and higher for espresso to achieve clarity and complexity respectively. Are you still experiencing frequent jamming with coarser grinds at the low RPM? Or is the jam more often occurring when you drop the RPM for espresso grind? Eg how often were you jamming a 600rpm light roast for pour over? Great video as always so thanks!

I was very interested in this grinder but the stalling and easy of which it stalls makes this a no go for me. Too much competition at this price point. The variable RPM isn't worth the hassle

Can you share the capacity of the grinder and dosing cup? Would I be able to get 60-70g of beans in(with bellows in place) for a pour over?

great video, do you have any thoughts comparing df64v with niche zero?

Can you please review the La Spaziale in the background… pretty please 🙏🏾

hm, lots of interesting benefits - but the the loudness and the potential for stalling are actually deal breakers, I guess. I acutally finally wanted to move to grinder with less or at least acceptable noise - not more!

How does it compare with the Niche duo, the price in the UK is quite similar if you buy the duo with one set of burrs

Stalling is bad but it might just be a 120v issue, this is seen on other grinders. But this bad is something I don’t really wanna see. That said it dos seem like DF are getting closer and closer to where you don’t get to many annoyances but it’s probably still a couple of models away. Today I actually think the new king of 64mm will be zerno z1, with blind burrs, swappable prebreaker with different feedrate etc. I personally seen no convincing data that really proves RPM on many flat burrs do much of anything. The PSD show you basically just move it on the scale just like you do grinding coarser or finer..

i was wondering if you will try the Mizen burrs for the P64 , thanks !

Maybe the difference in the DF jamming and the Langom not is simply the quality of internal parts. If it’s built with cheap internals you would need the grinder to shut off so it wouldn’t tear itself up. If the grinder has quality internals you can let it power through without worry.

Looks like a good budget option.

Would love to know if the Zerno Z1 is worth the extra $ for the better build quality and alignment. But unfortunately lose RPM control.

Does some one know which ecxact burr that is? my df64 Stock burr has the same geometry but without the coating and i could Not find out which exakt burr i have.

How does the DF64v compare to a Timemore Sculptor 078(s)?

Interesting to note that even a $600 grinder can stall!

What is the scale range for espresso compared to P64? Which grinder can be used to set the grinding for espresso more precisely in order to dial in perfect espresso (sweet spot)?

If the DF64V checks already many boxes I am curious what the follow up of the grinder is. I think it will only get better seen the steps they made throughout the years.

The moment of truth.. thank you

Does that scratchy sound like metal to metal sound? I heard a talk about some metal to metal sound coming up occasionally!

How is the tolerances and alignment ?

I'd be interested to hear your thoughts on Kafatek grinders.

Did you have any problems with the declumper? I've heard that on previous models, that was an issue.

Is there a noticeable taste difference… meaning more clarity, fruitiness,.. compared to Niche Zero? I’m asking since I’m thinking of getting a flat burr sidekick to my Niche… and what I wouldn’t want is to get a flat burr grinder that produces Niche like cups… which are comments that I keep reading for the likes of the Timemore Sculpture.

I’m excited to see your lucca a53 review! I’ve had one for 3 years and wanted to hear some influencer folk’s opinions

How would you compare the dlc burrs to the Omni burrs of the p64? Do you prefer one over the other?

would you prefer this over the timemore 064s?

Do you think that there will be a P83? I'm guessing not as it'd cannibalise the P100 market.

Sounds like they should have wound the motor to be max torque at 600 rpm or so. No need for adjustment.

screech, jamb and pedestal are worth spending much more to avoid… seem these can be avoided, other that “stealing” sales from is big brother, which if

Is there any discernible difference in taste at all when you compared the the same burrs and RPM in the Lagom P64 and DF64V? It would be interesting to know just how much the tight tolerances, better alignment, etc. of the P64 make in cup quality even if might be subtle.

What's the story with the La Spaz back there?

Does it stall the same with ssp and dlc burrs?

Would you be able to let me know where you bought your espresso cups from and the name of your decibel app?

Would love to have an electric motor engineer weigh in on why motors stall on some, but not other variable speed grinders. I wonder if it’s a bite-sized thing which could be made known to consumers?

I was reading from Joe from espresso outlet that the jamming is a problem with pre production units. This batch coming now has a different controller board and shouldn’t be jamming like this

I'm glad you mentioned some of the odd design characteristics regarding the dosing cup stand and lack of portafilter forks. That and the ugly light colored wood (should have been walnut), fixed power cord, easy jamming, and screechy sound, I opted for the Sculptor 078s. I really wanted to love the DF64V, but it just felt so "alpha" release to me. The Sculptor is also the initial release, but in my opinion much more polished and well thought out. BUT with all these faults, the v2 of the DF64V (coming soon I'm sure) could be spectacular! Great review TRS!

Where do you get your beautiful cups from?

Have you had the chance to compare it to the Zerno?

Did it stall when brewing on low rpm for filter or just espresso? (Assuming light roast)

Will they improve the 83 version?

Damn… now I wanna get this.

REASON FOR STALLING: The DF64V has a small and low torque motor. The Lagom P64 is also 300W but at almost twice the size, with no stalling issues. You cannot beat physics and create a smaller sized motor with the same torque at the same RPM. The sacrifice here on the DF64V is in torque. Wattage = Torque x RPM The DF64V can only handle light roasts at high RPM, which defeats the purpose of Variable RPM (to reduce fines by decreasing RPM)

the reports of magic smoke coming out on early models are a bit worrying

☕☕☕ Love Is Important ❤️

The stalling is a big problem, which is why the lagom is still king

hmm... mine never stalls at 1000rpm and all I use is light roasts for espresso

DF64 is getting closer and closer to becoming a real P64 killer but still not good enough. I guess this is typical 'You get what you pay for'. I own P64 and it's kinda overpriced but also overengineered for a 64mm coffee grinder. The build quality, overall aesthetics, workflow, etc. is just too good for a 64mm flat burr coffee grinder lol. It should have been 83mm burr in that price range.

I’m getting tired of hearing about all these DF grinders. Didn’t know it sounded that bad or that it stalled so thanks for this. I’m just gonna buy the P64 and call it a day

I’d pay an extra hundred if they just upgraded the motor on the next version. The value still handily beats out the Lagom

I bought the DF64v when it was announced and was extremely disappointed at the quality when it arrived last week. It worked for one dose, and then died, and now its a paper weight - and it sounds like they had a problem with the production run and I'm not alone. This is a low quality piece of kit. It's cheap, but it also feels cheap. Not recommended at all.

Isn't the platform the same conceptual setup as the Niche grinders?

you didn't talk about stall at all.

Stalling sucks and I love playing with the RPM on my real p64 (lagom). Which brings me to the main point, I never support these cheap-copy companies that do nothing but come up with a worse cheap option of a really good product.

Interesting! I saw a number of people switch from their Timemore pledges to get a DF64V with the argument that it was a more reliable and "known" product. Seems like the DF64V motor (for now at least...could be revised in future models) isn't really delivering. I have also seen a few people online with issues of motors burning out in the first few days.

Lo