Thank you creating a video on these three grinders! I have watched also other channels and within the DF grinders given I brew with filter with espresso light roasts beans I learned that I need to stick with SSP MP, and it for value for money given how expensive the 83mm SSP burrs are, makes more sense to go for a df64 gen 2? Then i found out that DF has a 64V. Which is CHF 200 more than the gen2 with ssp mp. So glad you covered them here and also the sound. My brother did tell me ssp mp burrs are really annoyingly loud but you proved that. *sigh* I was hoping for a quieter grinder lol. I do come from a Sette. My next stop would be looking at a df64 gen2 with ssp mp vs timemore 064s vs 078s (the latter requiring more seasoning). Timemore is really much more expensive now compared to the df64 gen2 even with ssp mp.
SSP Cast/Lab Sweet burrs are also great for light roast filter coffee and they are less noisy. Or you can also consider SSP Brew - they are more rare than MP but better for filter.
DF64 Gen2 seems like they took a lot of the DF83 re-design and utilized that, which is a good thing. For the DF83 I'm currently using BOYT burrs I might have bought the last 2 sets :o I'm liking the results I'm getting with those, I haven't tried the SSP Cast in 83mm but I think it does seem similarly sweet and balanced. I have tried shots from the 80mm Cast / Lab Sweet style burrs. SSP Lab Sweet v2 in 64mm I didn't like either. I don't think they're worth it for what you get. If you want something with not a lot of flavour clarity save your money and just get a cheaper lower end conical burr grinder, plenty of options for that! Apparently some people claim they get good clarity out of them, not sure how.. I had two sets in different grinders, but maybe neither were used enough to get seasoned before I got rid of the burrs, so they MAY get better after like 10kg of seasoning, which is kinda ridiculous. I did notice the DF83 stock italmill burrs were initially low clarity and high body (also due to the declumper holder coffee back) BUT I was still really enjoying the coffee out of them, it had a good balance, a little higher clarity than a conical burr niche zero or sette, with a little less body, but also just smoother less bitterness, so it's a step up, but as it got seasoned (and immediately after opening up the declumper) I'm noticing more clarity, less body, so it's more like a flat burr now. I kind of want a good low clarity / high body grinder now just because I have other higher clarity ones already. Even the Weber HG2 (conical burr) is pretty high clarity low body,Its like a conical burr trying to be a flat burr.
Hard to find a burr that can do it all well! I actually find Cast 64 mm to be high in clarity after a LOT of seasoning and running at 600-800 RPM. It will be interesting to see which balance V3 strikes.
@@coffeechronicler Nice, glad to know you also agree (with some burrs and grinders at least) RPM can make a difference! SOME people were arguing against that :) Pre-seasoning, I didn't think the Cast type burrs made that much of a difference with different RPM (in a P64).
I narrowed my next grinder down to the DF64 V2. Is it worth the extra $ in upgrading the burs for espresso and milk drinks? Am I able to dose straight into a portafilter with it?
Thank you so much for providing such helpful content! It's greatly appreciated by coffee lovers like myself who are looking to upgrade or replace our devices. I noticed in another video that you rated the pour-over capabilities of the DF64 Gen 2 at 3.5/5 and the Kmax at 4/5. I'm curious about how you would rate the DF54 and the DF64V. I'm currently undecided about which one to purchase. My preference is for pour-over, but I also enjoy making one espresso daily. Any insights you could provide would be really helpful in making my decision. Unfortunately for the df 64 is to heavy, I gonna buy the grinder in a trip.
Thanks, Vitor! Both the DF54 and DF64V are excellent for pour over. I'd rate them at the same level or perhaps better than the K Max. Surprisingly, the DF54 is making truly excellent cups, I have spent a lot of time testing it recently. coffeechronicler.com/df54-review/
@@coffeechronicler Oh, really? Both grinders, the DF54 and the DF64V, are on the same level for pour-over? So, the only significant drawback for the DF54 is having fewer burns options?
my df64v stalled 5-6 times on a single dose with the stock burrs even when slow feeding the beans 5-6 at a time. after I switched to SSP MP it only stalled 2-3 times in half a year.
I have the DF83 with an older model of SSP multipurpose burrs. I mostly use it for pour over. Would be intereresting to compare it with the cast burrs for pour over.
I’ve had an interesting experience with my DF64 Gen 2 so far. I waited for a long time to upgrade from my Virtuoso+ and X-Pro. So far, the Gen 2 seems to be producing a lot more fines than my X-Pro and the drawdown times on filter are much slower. It has the DLC burrs installed as stock from a Canadian supplier. Also, the power button almost immediately broke, so I had to send it back to be fixed. Just today, a small rubber bit from the burr carrier holder fell off when I removed the top burr carrier for cleaning. I almost thought it was just a boulder and ground it, luckily I checked. Good grinder but certainly not without some quality issues still.
Sorry to hear about your experience. It sounds like you might have a severely misaligned unit. However, X-Pro is an excellent pour over grinder, and it will rival the stock Gen 2 burrs. You'll likely have to jump to SSPs if you want significant step up in clarity and flavor separation.
How is the sound level of the DF64 gen 2 compared to the Baratza Encore? I’m looking into upgrading just like you mentioned, but I’ve heard the DF grinders are pretty loud
Its a shame how grind adjustment somehow always gets skipped in all these videos. The most important things, how much range a grinder has between settings? how is it to dial in? None manage to cover this. Also by this time the DF83v can be a option.
The burrs in the grinders really do change how they sound, I noticed your DF83 sounds nice and lower pitched than mine. The stock burrs are a little higher pitched and shrieky but super fast to grind. The Boyt burrs I'm using now are similar, maybe even faster, and not quite as annoying sounding. I noticed the similar style to your SSP Lab sweet/Cast burrs, the option-O Mizen burrs sound much nicer and lower pitched than SSP MP burrs which also have a similar high pitch whine to the stock DF64v/gen2 burrs.
Ive read your articles on both ghe df64 and the specialita and i know you recommend them both. But I cant make up my mind on which one to get theyre both priced the same here and Im not sure which way to go.
If you want to be single-dosing and do more methods than espresso, then go DF64. If you just want a hopper-based workflow strictly for espresso, then Specialita is great.
Thanks for the great review! I was looking at all of these trying to figure out what the difference was between them in terms of their output for filter and espresso, and this really helped! I do both filter and espresso equally and change beans a lot (mostly light roast), so looking for a single dose machine with this in mind. Another grinder that I've been considering is the Eureka Oro and Zero for single dosing. How would you compare the DF64V and DF64 gen 2 to the Eureka single dose machines for both espresso and filter?
I dont have either grinder but I've been researching the past few days and the one thing keeping me from the oro is the dial. It seems that the d64v2 just has a better experience to dial in your grinds. Good luck!
Thanks for the input. I have heard some using a dial mod that can be 3D printed that solves a lot of the problems with the stock dial and allows you to gauge where you are in the range. Stinks that the Eureka requires after market mods to make it useable! Though, I just can't help myself that like the aesthetic of the Oro better than the DF64v2. Given the cost discrepancy plus the easy burr upgradeability for the DF64v2, I'm probably just going to have to ignore aesthetics!
Very comprehensive comparison, thanks! I'm happy with my 64 gen 2 decision :) I have a df64 gen 2 and I having some issues with the catch cup. with the top collar attached it vibrates very very loudly. When I remove it, my grinds don't completely make it inside the cup. If i rest the cup on top of the prongs it just vibrates and slides off. Anyone else having similar issues? Any quick fixes?
You can add some extra rubber sleeves to the arms that will ensure a tighter grip. The grinder should come with 4 sleeves in total. Otherwise a heavier cup like the one I mention will mitigate the issue.
super timely video. i’m waiting on my back ordered 64 gen 2, but now considering just getting the 64v. I’m upgrading from a baratza encore, so I’d love to get something more quiet this time around
I've got the Baratza 270Wi and love it, but want to add a single-dose grinder to my coffee station to more easily handle two different coffees. I'm leaning towards the Gen 2 because the V doesn't have the plasma generator, and I feel like the variable speed option just adds another level of complexity to grinding.
Hey amazing video, you are actually the reason I ended up getting the DF64v. I am currently making a mid day latte while watching this. Ive been using it for 2 weeks with my flair 58 and I think its amazing! Quick questions I have are: 1) Do you ever experiment with rpm when using it for espresso? 2) I have heard as you said cast burrs are very difficult to dial in.... however it seems that that is easier with the DF64v so that's good to hear. I had thought the cast burrs were a good balance between clarity and body, so not too excited you said they were muddy. Would you maybe recommend the High Uniformity burrs instead of the cast? looking to find a balance burr set that can do light roast and still bring me body for lattes when I switch to medium and dark roasts. I have heard High uniformity burrs are too similar to the DLC to be worth the upgrade.
Thanks for the kind words! I get the best results for espresso with the RPM at the 1100-1500 range. Cast are excellent in the 64V but I'd definitely wait until the V3 comes out in a few months if you want to use them for espresso. I prefer both MP and HU for espresso, but they also have their own problems.
I currently use an X-pro for both my filter and espresso, and imo it tastes pretty good. But I can’t figure out with what grinder/burrs I would be getting a noticeable upgrade in taste and clarity. I’m scared that if I shell out €500+ I would be disappointed in the minimal difference in taste. Since you know the X-pro well, do you have a recommendation? Tak skal du have!
X-Pro is excellent, but the pour over-focused flats like cast, MP and Ode will give you more flavor separation and clearer notes. If you're not brewing light roasts at higher extractions, you may still prefer the cups with the X-Pro, though. For espresso, I can think of quite a few grinders that you will give you something completely different and possibly better - both conical and flats.
Great video! I have a Ode Gen 2 for filter and K-ultra for espresso. If I wanted to upgrade both, which of these would you recommend and burr set? I drink light too Nordic light filter, and medium to light espresso. Use a Decent DE for espresso. Edit: prefer 2 grinders for ease of use.
You've got a pretty well-rounded setup already. I think you should try MP. For some beans they will definitely be an upgrade. They are unique for light roast espresso, and filter can also be very good, although controversial.
I need help! I'm a new espresso enthusiast. Have a DeLonghi La Specialista Prestigio with built in grinder. I'm now looking to up my game and spend €600-700 for a good espresso grinder. Look and workflow are important to me. I was deciding between the Niche Zero, the DF64 gen 2 (But the sound level of the DF concerns me, should it?), and the DF64v version 2 with plasma Generator (aka Ionizer) and variable speed is updated from to 800 to 1800 rmps. What other options should I consider? I have no idea if I prefer more body or clarity or the difference between conical vs flat. But I drink primarily espresso, americano and milk based drinks (no filter or pour over). And I would consider upgrading to the SSP HU burrs (unless advised differently) HELP me please.
@@coffeechroniclerthank you sir! I have also seen your article “TOP BURR COFFEE GRINDERS FOR THE SERIOUS HOME BARISTA” and it’s made me want the DF64v more. And am now looking into the SSP HU Burrs thinking that would provide me with a more traditional espresso shot with a bit more clarity of the notes.
@@os.haven’t decided yet. Due to the conical vs flat burr debate, and as I prefer traditional full bodied espresso people are saying stick with conical burrs which is pushing me towards the Niche. But I’m still interested by the DF with upgraded SSP HU burrs but then it gets expensive. So still thinking to start with Niche first.
@@MartK-13 conical vs flat: yeah, same here, been reading a gazillion of reddit posts and watched countless YT vids. the issue is, despite the number of reviews and inputs, i still find it hard to being fully convinced that i would like flat burr results better. i really like my JMax hand grinder (conical of course) and totally love the fine granularity of 8.8 microns per click, which translates roughly to a 1 second extraction time change. the fines it produces is part of what i (apparently) like, body / texture over clinical flavor separation (exaggerated, but that's what i heard often). in an ideal world, i'd find someone with a df65 gen2 grinder, and we'll have a "show down" of espresso experiments. but i'm hesitant to be throwing a thousand bucks (with additional burrs) at something that potentially doesn't taste better (for me).
Hi I have a question! If I buy the DF64V with the DLC burrs that come with it, can i put the DLC burrs in my existing DF64ELR grinder and purchase a new set of SSP burrs for the DF64V?
I have the df64 gen 2 and I can tell you for medium roast or dark beans you barely have any range to play with, I’m a notch below the 5 on the dial for espresso . Go any higher than that and it will spurt like a shower from the portafilter no matter how good your prep is. So essentially you have a heap of range for pour over options but you’re hard stuck with minimal range for espresso. Niche zero has more range.
Sorry to hear that, have you tried looking at alignment? If anything you should have more range for darker roasts, since you'd grind coarser for those.
Taste-wise it all depends on the burr you put inside them. With stock burrs, they are all fairly similar, perhaps with a slight edge to 64V. But they would all be upgrades to Vs3.
I'm currently deciding between the Varia and the DF64v at the moment. I'm looking for a small format that is not too loud. I just can't get past that huge power box on the Varia, then I've got the high pitch sound of the df64v causing some anxiety (lol). Not sure which way to go yet. I'm upgrading from a *cough* blade grinder (do they even make these any more) so I know whatever I choose will be 100% better. Thanks for reading 😊
@@ductrung3993 They are different... 83 tastes a bit more "holistic" whereas 64 can sometimes taste like an MP style clean burr with some fines added for body. I'd say small edge to 83 but both are very enjoyable.
I would love to go for a DF83, but the price of the burrs really puts me off. If I'm going to have to spend a grand on my grinder, I'm getting into Acaia Orbit or Zerno Z1 territory. Those aren't much more expensive, and they are just nicer grinders. Not to mention the Z1 has the custom prebreaker and all the SSP blind burrs which seems to perform better than the standard burrs. Also the burrs are less expensive at that size so you can experiment to your heart's content and not have to drop another $400 on burrs which is nice.
Is there a big difference in Mess between the Gen 2 and the V? Trying to sell the girlfriend on a upgraded grinder and noise and footprint are considering Factor but mess drives me crazy. Currently have a fellow Gen 2 for my filter set up, and the static is ok with that
Always a good idea - such a great machine. Thanks for your videos by the way, they were really helpful with choosing a grinder and I felt well prepared for the V and it's quirks. @@coffeechronicler
Thanks for the review! Do you have any experience with the different coatings for 83mm SSP LS burrs, i.e. red speed vs silver knight and how this affects taste?
Sorry, haven' tested that. Hansung told me to that red speed was better for espresso. In my experience with other burrs, coated tend to be a bit more "blended".
You noted DF83 cast burr had a lot more smoothness and clarity compared to 64mm cast, but then in summary noted 83mm burr gives diminishing returns- i.e. 5% better. On one hand in the beginning it sounds like the larger burrs are much better than that.
It's hard to quantify. They are definitely more enjoyable for filter and espresso. But if 83 is 5 for filter, then 64 would be 4.5-4.75ish - so already quite good. The espresso is also to a great standard, but here LS64 is a poor performer. So as an allrounder LS83 performs great, but in a more specific head to head comparison to the best you can get from a 64 mm, the improvement might only be more like 5%.
Don't have a single favorite, I like extremes such as SSP MPs, conicals, and even traditional Italian burrs such as Mazzer and Eureka. Just find the LS64 to be rather unbalanced. @@Eklipse14x
Thanks for the very helpful review. I bought one recently and one weird thing I've noticed is that after I grind some beans the setting will change slightly coarser - usually by 0.35. Did. you experience this when you reviewed the DF64?
I am pretty happy with my set up, but I am considering trying out flat burrs. That said I do love the texture that conical trends toward. I currently have a sette 270, I've had it for several years and I love the coffee it makes. But, I would love a little more quiet in my mornings. I was thinking of the 64v, but am open to suggestions. Does any one have any recommendations?
Probably just stock burrs. SSPs offerings that are better for filter are not necessarily better for espresso (unless you drink really light roasts, in which case MP are excellent). Maybe Cast V3 will be good, still not much info out about them.
I switched to HE spirit basket, and to light roast and turbo shots. What are the best options for this type of coffee beside df83v2 with ssp mp? I don't think I'll be able splash on something like Ceado Hero, Compak pk100, EG-1 or Lagom 01. Is there something good, affordable and withour bellows?
In theory it can make just as good espresso, but out of the box P might be slightly easier to use. They have very similar burrs with a tiny edge to P, but it's a cheap upgrade. So in the end I'd still go for Gen 2 @@felixzimmerling2509
Hi there! I have a 1zpresso Jx Pro. And I see nothing wrong with staying manual. Would a df64 be visibly better? I'm only into espresso at this point. I bought Jx Pro after seeing your reviews and that was a long time ago. So I'm hoping to have an opinion of someone who had both. Would much appreciate your opinion, cheers.
With dark, traditional roasts Jx is solid for espresso, but the moment you get down to medium roasts, flat burrs are just much better at bringing out nuance, balance and sweetness. So yes, it's an upgrade, but not necessary for everybody.
@@coffeechroniclerHi again. My local shop have the gen 2 df64 but with the DLC burrs. Any idea if they're any good? Or worse than the stainless still ones? Thanks.
Fantastic video! Thank you for all the work that went into to this video. Even though I personally very much dislike the aesthetic of the DF grinders, their performance and price point are more appreciated. Love the vid
Great content man. Keep it up. What do you think about the new df64p v1.2 that now comes with the new DLC burrs vs the df64V? curious to hear your thoughts.
Hi Asser, so I've been mulling over which of these to get (with the SSP Cast v2) and torn between df83 and df64v. As a soon-to-be dad, sound will be a variable in the near future. Would you say the DF83 with cast are much louder/more annoying than the df64v with cast while grinding or are they fairly similar (the sound demo does give me an idea, but I'd love to hear your opinion). Also, if I should get the 64v, do you think it's worth waiting for the cast v3? Mange tak for hjælpen!
For domestic peace 64V is definitely the winner. Judging from your description, I think that would be the right choice. Then you can start out with the surprisingly good stock burrs for a couple of months, and wait and see how the new V3 Cast are received early next years. Held og lykke!
Sette might have the edge for the typical espresso blends that the average coffee drinkers enjoy. I actually really like it for that type of textured/sweet shots. Gen 2's burrs are more fouced on flavor separation and it's more of a multipurpose grinder. I think there's a significant difference in taste, and many traditionalists might prefer Sette.
