Did BRAD OWEN Get ANGLED? 

What would YOU do with 8♦ 8♣ on the river? Your Stack (BB): $4,600 Their Stack (CO): $2,820 Pot: $390 Board: 8♠ 3♠ 2♣ 4♠ A♣ A) Check, Fold/Call/Raise to … ? B) Bet $100 (small) C) Bet $250 (medium) D) Bet $400 (big)

Also, Jonathan please don’t stop being yourself and “rambling” in these types of videos. It’s always informative and usually pretty funny with the GIFs and little added nuggets you include. Thanks so much for the video and everything you do for poker!!

Very good analysis. I hope Brad is watching. Having watched a good number of Brad's vlogs and his quick speaking play by play analysis I recollect times when I would think - "wait a minute Brad - not sure of that assumption". He deserves credit for being decisive on assessing a player's range preflop but each street's action deserves updating logic. Brad also deserves much credit for his humility in presenting his not so well played hands alongside his well played hands.

Jonathan, we're here to listen to you ramble about poker! We all have a passion for the game to even be watching videos like these, thanks again for producing content and sharing your poker knowledge

I like the "rambling," and so did everyone else who watched to the end, regardless of what they say.

Love it when the nice guys in poker tell you about the dark sides. Keep em coming J Man. We would never let em cancel you as long as you keep telling it straight like you do.

I like the rambling, Jonathan. Sometimes I learn more from the rambling than the hand analysis.

I think it's perfectly fine to manipulate your opponents with comments and false tells. I remember in a tourny, loose UTG limps, loose bluffy UTG+2 raises, I 3 bet JJ from HJ. It folds to BB, he tanks and then asks "You have a big A?" I don't respond, but then realize he probably has a weak A that I would rather not have in the hand, so I give him a shit eating grin like he found me out. He folds and UTG goes all in, I tanked and thought, he thinks I have a big unpaired A, so he could be moving with any pair, so I called and he had 55. Two interesting results from one gesture.

Jonathan I love it when you are loquacious in your videos. We get to hear what’s going on in that shrewd mind of yours. The longer you talk, the more we are instilled with wisdom. Thanks for the videos Jonathan!

Not sure if the out of action was an angle or just being happy he made the straight. But that was part of the problem we had with the Plexiglass dividers, harder to hear action, and glared line of sight! With that said, I can see Brad then letting him bet out of turn, and trying to get greater value out of him with the check raise. When the opponent only mumbles something, again the issues with the dividers, but turns his cards up without putting calling chips forward, Brad does ask what the action is before he tables his hand, protecting Brads hand. With all that said, I would have also probably just called the opponent's bet on the river since there was still the possibility my hand was beat, but Brads winning record is higher than mine, and I'm just a much lower stakes recreational player.

The rambling is great. One of my favorite parts of the channel. Thanks for the great video!

Pocket 5's seems pretty obvious to me in this spot, a recreational player isn't betting pot out of turn with just a rivered two pair.

Love the rambling. There’s so many things that go on in your rambles that I wouldn’t have even begun to consider if you didn’t ramble, so ramble longer!!

Many players (including myself) tried to narrow down opponents ranges were just wishful thinking. Especially true when we had a monster on the flop and the board texture changed dramatically on the turn and river.

I like a medium (70-80% pot) bet from Brad on the river. If opponent rivered 2 pair (A-2, A-3, A-4), it’s possible they could make the call there. Previous action makes sense if villain has the ace of spades and calls the turn with a marginal hand/junk with a low pair, which based on info in this video seems possible up to this point based on Brad’s read that villain isn’t a great player. We can also get value from lower sets, but those hands probably would bet flop for thin value and protection against a draw. I don’t think opponent has A-x with a Broadway card unless they have the propensity to make a really loose call on the turn. It also makes an easy decision for us if we get raised on the river, as opponent almost always has a flush in this case. It’s possible they could make a river raise with a 5 in their hand, but previous action doesn’t make sense (unlikely to have 4-5, 5-6, pocket 5s definitely possible, A-5 also possible given the action), but we’re losing to a straight anyway, and if opponent really wants to make river raises with a straight on this board texture, seems like lighting money on fire to me in the long run. I really don’t like check calling here because opponent could go for fat value with a 75% to full pot bet and make life miserable for us. I’m excited to see what the opponent actually has here, as I’m writing this comment when Jonathan dropped a pop quiz on the river!

I was the dealer in a tournament when this situation came up. Guy (in the 1 seat right next to me) facing a large River bet grunts and tosses his cards face up forward. I grab his cards and stuff them in the muck. Mayhem ensues. “Dealer, WHAT are you doing!?!” Eventually, the floor settles things by asking the guy if he intended to call without any sort of penalty for exposing his cards with “action pending”. His straight was good but if his opponent was arguing strongly that it’s a call, my money says he lost to a flush and would refuse to pay. Sitting in the dealer box, it looks like an angle shoot to me. He sees the first split second reaction of the bettor and decides if he’s going to claim he was folding or calling. If the bettor rolls over the flush with a smile, the angler claims he folded face up, after all, why would he call such a large bet with three spades on the board? If the bettor looks disappointed, the angler argues he was calling because he made his straight on the River. I think this “Angle Shot” is frequently attempted in cash games (and often allowed) but should result in a penalty in a tournament.

Your intro was not a "Digress" and absolutely worth mentioning. Thanks again!

I think check, looking to check call makes the most sense, the Ace is a good bluff card for V if you check to him and he basically never has a flush, depending on V's sizing you can check to check-raise as well

Brad checking the flop is a total mistake in my opinion. If I’m playing against a splashy player and he raised me pre and I flop top set, money is going into that pot immediately-I’m not going to check and try to trap a guy who regularly trips and falls by his own feet. Also, the out of turn $300 bet is so telling of a rec player and it would have been an easy check call for me. I don’t have the nuts and I beat way too many hands he could have.

Love brad so much, best attitude, best dude… at least on camera. I wish I had John little going over my hands.fun D - bet large

Check and evaluate. Probably check call depending on size.

I play 1/2 1/3 and 2/5. Narrowing ranges is impossible. Ppl limp call just about anything

Brad says that the guy had 3 outs - He had 8 outs -any six or any ace. Flopping sets or two pair is more dangerous then most players realize. IF he bets big on the flop, when he is ahead, the opponent most likely will fold with pocket 5's. It is hard to get a very loose player to fold with any kind of a draw. I play poker about 30 hours a week at a casino, so, I see this a lot. Having said that though, I have seen maniacs that never fold anything above A-2. The player was just excited that he hit a winning hand. Being the player that Brad is, he should have figured it out-maybe he did figure it and just could not fold a set. I was at a table once and during a hand an old guy looked at his cards and said "I have to make sure I have what I think I have." I knew instantly that he had a straight flush. Even players that are not novices, give tells like this sometimes. I am of the opinion that if I flop top set, I don't want my opponent(s) to see anymore cards so I bet big. You cannot give the opponent a cheap or free card. Novice or recreational players tend to take more chances.

Check call, I would fold to an allin bet since it's risking way too much for the pot odds but would call 2 or 3x the pot.

*JL* : "When you are playing live-poker you are allowed to speak." *Jamie Gold* : "Wait.. what??"

I would bet medium, because I expect some aces to have called the turn and I don't want them to fold to a big overbet. If villain jams, I want to fold (at least at my live 1/3 game, they always have it when they raise big on the river). Checking is worse because they don't bet with as many hands as they call.

I loved your commentary near the end on how to stay quiet when villain bets out of turn

Hi, thanks for a brilliant video. Finally a Pro who states clearly the dangers of narrowing an Amateur opponents range! I’m pretty sure I would have Check called the river, folding to a shove, following pretty much your line of thought. An out of turn bet must mean either super excited or super sad! Great video!

Spot on analysis. I remember gasping when Brad put in the x/r on the river. Especially your part about "Don't remove hands from your opponent's range so blithely." Obviously your "bet out of turn that's obviously not an angle is strong l" point was dead on. Great video in every respect but the recursion was still the highlight.

I'm checking here and only calling depending on the villain's bet size. A small bet will be snap called. Any value, 60-80% of pot will be almost snap fold. If the villain decides to overbet the pot, this is where things would get dicey. I would have to rely very heavily on history, and only call if I feel the villain would bluff jam this board; which I'm sure many would.

He bet out of turn because he was excited. Absolutely love your videos Jonathan. I have just started my Poker journey, have been playing since I was a kid for fun and am now just getting serious at 28 yrs with a wife and 2 kids. My Goal is to put 2 hours a day in of study consistently not because I have to but because I love improvement. I want to be the best poker player in New Zealand! Unfortunately at the moment I don't have enough to join the poker coaching program but I will get there.

Btw, unless you skipped ahead, technically the opponent could have taken back his 300$, since brad only said I didn't check then put out 1k$ chips, the proper thing to do would have been for brad to officially annouce check so the 300$ bet from opponent is confirmed and then proceed to check raise if he chose too, the way the hand went down it's basically like brad is changing the action by betting 1k himself ( not a raise) therefor opponent can take back his 300$ and decide if he calls or fold to the 1k bet

I would have pot raised on the flop and tried to take the pot down before anyone had a chance at hitting the flush personally. On the river now you have to be worried about AA and A5, 56s any 5 and a flush. I probably make a small bet like 1/4 pot to see where i am at. We may get jammed on but again i would have not let it get this far ideally by pot raising the flop but that's just me.

I would check/ call or raise depending on what my opponent does. I don't know. There could possibly be a fold in there too

Love the rambling. Helps me understand the thought process and possibilities to consider in each scenario.

Before the hand was revealed I thought the most likely hand as played was 55. I wonder why Brad ruled out a 5. I guess what I’m saying is that it’s interesting that given the same action we came up with totally different reads 🤔

I learn so much from you, thank-you.

Ramble is great, feels like a natural conversation

Your intro and how you broke down straddling and some sound alternatives is what made me sub. Will be checking out your other outlets as well!

Nah I love the rambling, it’s good content and sometimes you give me new perspective.

Always checking in this particular spot. Mainly due to the fact that with the opponent checking back the flop indicating that he is weighted more to a value esk hand or an air ball. Turn is a very wet card and with Brad leading the turn and the opponent calling, I would say that the opponent is more than likely going to have a nutted combo draw like Ace X with the Ace of spades or maybe Ace King with the King of spades since he did check back the flop both options are viable to be considered in his range. That being said those are just a couple of combos that we are beating with 88 on this river. And while it may seem very tempting to try and get some thin value with this particular hand I do think it's a mistake to lead the river even though it does seem very likely that he has an Ace but if so then that ace is going to be specifically the Ace of spades so flushes are more likely A5 also has you gutted. So I believe that implementing a check call line on this run out is correct for all of those reasons and you also give them the option to blast off as well.

Bet 400$ It seems polarized for him to call loose that check's turn. but one pair hands might find the call

Betting like $300 on the river seems good to try to get a call from any A+spade hands that called turn and now improved. Check raising seems too thin but if this opponent is the type to value bet a hand like AJ and is sticky enough, then perhaps it's good.

Your vids are solid and enjoyable. Keep it up buddy

Jonathan, I like this type format from you. Very interesting analysis and entertaining also.

“There’s nothing wrong with saying words at the poker table to get the result you desire” So you’re saying it’s ok to buff a missed flush draw on the river, and when you get called, claim “I got it” or claim that you have 2pr or a set? That’s shady as fuck and though it might not break any rules, there is something very wrong with that. Lost a lot of respect with that statement Little Jon

Keep rambling, it is akin to actual internal thoughts, which in poker, are extremely informative. Love the content!

I think the “Rambling “ is sometimes where you learn The most. Ramble on 😳😂

Assessing the situation on how the Hand went preflop It's unlikely that the opponent has a flush or a 5 in their hand. They might have an Ace X holding. So after taking all that and how the betting and checking went I would do a bet around $175 small to medium as a pot control blocker value bet.

I've been watching a lot of poker videos since moving to Vegas.. I personally think your 'rambling' is pretty on point... Most players/coaches over analyze.. I feel you are bringing in relevant tangents that help explain your perspective very well.. Ramble away!

honestly i'd check looking to check/fold - I said from the start if anyone was interested in this pot they either had A/5 or a flush draw worse case scenario A/5 suited spades and they made a flush and a straight to beat my to seal my 8's in a coffin I wouldn't want to put more money in the pot and would try to make it to showdown as cheaply as possible

before you said it easily is true for live poker (esp lower stakes than this) the actually accidental out of position lead out is nervous happy.

Bet medium targeting an ace Call the out of turn bet If I had raised and he threw his hand in there face up then tell him to put the chips in. Like the Rambling Man.

When I played poker as a kid I would fake tells and other readable expressions or movements it was so fun.

Maybe I’m wrong here but I look at poker different and look at what my opponent would do with their hand then mine since I have best hand on flop, you said you would always check in this situation that’s where I think you are wrong, Already 2 spades on board I’m betting pot to scare most hand away and maybe get some money from chasers, possibly looking to jam on turn possibly I know people like to slow play but not with that board I don’t think.

check depends on bet size aboutbthe call

LOVE the rambling, I learn the most sometimes when you go off on a tanget. So much of the math is awesome but the stuff on live reads or little tips like have singlehandedly made me so much money at the low stakes games

I think when he acts out of turn I think it is a fold because low stacks really don’t do huge bluffs like this. I didn’t see what he showed but my guess was 55 Maybe a bluff with holding the A ♠️ or maybe even A ♠️ with any 5 . I can see calling here but the raise makes no sense you only get sets to call . A 3, A 2, A 4, A 8, A K with a ♠️ all fold so there is no reason .

Raising here seems like a horrible decision. What is he getting called by that he beats? A3? Just call. As always, I ❤ your insight Jonathan! Your cutaways are on point, very much like Family Guy. Thanks for your vids.

Check call (if it’s not too big)

i only clicked on this video because Brad Owen was in the thumbnail, but I learned alot thanks! You just earned yourself a new subscriber.

Over the years I have seen players turn over virtually every two card combination, suited and unsuited in preflight raised pots only to hear them tell everyone how it is their lucky or favorite hand or some other illogical justification.

The last bit, is "Jeff: 'He said he called'." If Jeff is the dealer, than no angle was made at the end. The dealer said that he said that he called, so he therefore called.

I agree with your analysis the whole way. Against a not great player there are a large number of hands in his range that beat Brad. In addition to all the ones you mentioned, many players with hands like A5 of hearts would check the flop, and some bad (but in their minds, tricky) players would play AA this way. So I would check/call the river unless I had a strong read on the specific player and what his out of turn action means.

Checking to raise or bet small to induce

In this spot with the lack of aggression from my caller post flop, but with the aggression preflop, I am inclining to put my opponent on either high cards that missed, an ace holding, and the hands that are beating me are pocket fives, ace 5, and any suited connectors spades... I doubt they have the spades because of the lack of aggression to try and take down the pot. With all of that, I would bet medium sized on the river for value, about 200, and possibly fold to a reraise especially if the opponent is straight forward and doesn't have a bluffing/overplaying history.

Hey Jonathan, I wouldn't have ruled out 55 especially since Brad didn't bet the flop. The other guy might have folded is Brad did bet the flop. Just my $.02

I'm checking on the river and then calling or folding depending on the player's bet, although I admit that I would be a weak player in Brad's game. Now, his having pocket 5s makes should definitely be in his range. Raising pre-flop in the CO with any pair is reasonable. His check-back on the flop with a small pair and under-pair to the board is probably not a good play, but given that he's identified as weak, his check-back makes sense. Also, being a weak player, he may check a straight or flush draw. The dude's call on the turn makes sense, and I believe pocket pairs and draws are high on his range. His call also makes sense because Brad is representing a decent holding given that he called a raise from the BB, and Brad led the turn. On the river, I agree that the player's betting out of turn for 75% of the pot is due to his excitement. I would've folded, giving him credit for the straight. (One of my leaks, however, is giving my opponent too much credit, and I over-fold.)

Love the rambling, all relevant, all appreciated

Quiz Q1 - Its going to be player dependent. Against a passive opponent like this, I'd like to check raise to 2.5x their bet or pot, which ever is greater. Based on the opponents play, they don't have 99+. Unless they hit the Ace on the river for a pair, they aren't putting any more money into this pot. Other pocket pairs like 44 to 77 are folding to a river bet and are checking back to get to show down. If they did hit the Ace, then they will bet the river and for 2.5x raise, they are just going to call a check raise.

I would check

Bet 1/4 pot to see if 55 got there or if a small flush was lurking.

Love the rambling! It adds value.

Check call, but, I was doing that before the out of turn bet 😞

Straddling is good for the game, even if you have to start it on your own. Nitty two blind games are boring.

Check and call.

Bet small 100- if he raises, re-raise, if jams fold.

No tendency knowledge i would bet And bet size would depend on how much in the moment I felt like I would be bluffing

What to do is entirely dependent on our bad opponent. I would check every time versus a player like me, because your LAGgy opponent should be betting almost their entire range and this hand is fine for a bluff-catch. Our opponent made loads of top pair on the river, does our opponent overplay top pair on a wet boad? Do they get frightened by the wet board?

I was playing golf with a guy who hit his approach to 2', his first chance for a birdie, since he,s closest to the hole he goes lsst but he was so excited he went first, missed the putt. But ya people get excited!

Be yourself. You are entertaining and informative.

guess before seeing end of hand, A2 suited or 55's (im at the part where you said not likely 55's).

Check to check call

Hey Jonathan I wanted to get your advice on a hand I recently played after watching a lot of your videos which helped me a lot btw. So it's a strange hand there were 5 people in the hand preflop, no three bets I had king jack of diamonds suited in the cutoff. So with a lot of ppl in the flop I told myself I need to flop the nuts here to feel comfortable with all these people in the hand. Flop comes 9h 10d qh. So I flop the nuts. After watching your video I decided to get value with it right away knowing 5 ppl in the hand I'm going to get some action. So I lead out and bet about third of the pot. I get 3 betted and then 4 betted by the button. So instead of just calling and letting the hearts get there. I'm not worried about pocket queens or tens because of no three bet. Maybe pocket nines or ace queen I was thinking. So I ripped it all in and got called by pocket nines which surprised me not that he called with what is the 4th nuts, because I've done it before and lost set vs set but this time I have the nuts on the flop trying to get max value knowing that my opponent is strong. And before I can blink my eye the queen comes on turn filling him up and knocking me out! I just wanted your thoughts on this hand. Did I play too aggressive? Should have I slowed down? Mind you even if slow down and the board pairs I have trouble laying down what was the nuts on the flop turning into the 4th nuts on turn giving him I believe the 3rd nuts if I'm thinking right. I'm happy the way I played it myself, I mean I'm a 64 percent favorite to beat him on the flop which is better than a coin flip close to a 3 to 1 favorite there. Just wanted to get your thoughts being that you have played at the highest levels and have had a lot of success with taking down titles. Thanks for any feedback!

What about places that allow button straddle? Is it good to always button straddle when others don't?

It's criminal you have as few subs as you do. Great breakdown of this hand!

D. I would def bet big against an opponent I have tagged as loose/splashy.

I would bet small looking to induce a bluff from missed spades or an over-value raise from Aces up. Occasionally the villain will raise and win with a random 5 or flush (or AA? Lol) but I think we need to go for some thin value and simultaneously induce some bluffs.

I am super on the call/fold option when he bets out of turn on the river, too many draws that got there on that board. I would usually bet that amount from the opponent, but when he instant puts it in, I am closer to the fold than the call. I am in a very big live downswing, so never listen to me.

Good point about that last audio action. With masks and windows, it's hard to determine what others are saying. It's less impactful at lower stakes but makes much more sense at higher stakes.

Check Raise

I'm betting about 150 as a blocker but also something that looks like I'm trying to get value. If you get raised that's almost never a bluff there. You could get missed Ax flush draws to call or a hand like A3 or A4 suited.

Or put out a small value bet and call if he raised unless he jams all-in.

Ramble on!

Bet medium and fold to a raise. Or check call

I would check and call any reasonable bet on the river. I would be a bit scared of betting and getting raised.

Brilliant to see WPH is going as strong as ever. I've been away from poker for a while cos I've just been doing other things and am enjoying the break but loving this! Ty

Okay, the recursion at 15:45 was arguably the greatest single twist of any RU-vid video I've ever seen. Pure genius- was that you Jon, or some above-the-rim video producer?

I check raise bluffy It's a good card to Bluff and also a missed flush...Nice trap

I'm check calling always