Did Indiana Jones Ever Matter At All? 

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I'd counter the "Indy is useless" argument with Marion 100% gets killed for the talisman and there's no guarantee the Ark ends up in the hands of the good guys after it gets opened the first time. Indy being there and surviving guaranteed the Ark fell into the right hands in the end.

The Nazis were already tracking Marion I thought. They were at the bar, she had the medallion from her well known dad. Calling her an innocent bystander is a stretch.

Indiana Jones to me is what every good grandad wants to have happened in their lives when they're sat telling their grandkids stories about their life. It's not about beating the bad guys. They are peripheral. It's just about a guy finding his way through a whole load of crazy circumstances on his adventures which one day he is going to really exaggerate to his grandkids. The point is that no matter how bad ass you are, there are always things out of your control.

"It's an ADVENTURE MOVIE! It's about following along with Indy's ADVENTURE!" "Oh, he said that. Okay"

In the second scenario, wouldn't more villains come looking for the first group who had their faces melted off, realized that the Ark did some gnarly shit, and then use it as a weapon? Indy being there prevented it from eventually being picked up by a group looking for the dead Nazis.

Is it a plot hole that the avengers fail to stop Thanos in avengers infinity war? If the avengers weren’t in the movie, Thanos still would have snapped 1/2 the universe.

One thing I’ve learned in recent years is a lot of people don’t know what a plot hole actually is.

Indy saved the girl and got the ark back to the government for safe keeping. thats two things that the plot needs him for. 3 if you count making his son.

Indiana Jones... only a true badass can survive an atomic blast in a fridge

I was worried there for a few minutes, but I'm glad this turned out in favor of Indy

Isn’t Indy’s arc in the first film related to him actually believing the religious stuff? When Marcus visits his house he calls it mumbo jumbo but by the end he makes sure he and Marianne both keep their eyes shut because of the dangers.

I think the movies are more about the adventures of Indiana jones rather than whether or not he's a vital piece to the puzzle

Remember, the Germans found the ark because the spy guy got the medallion burned into his hand, the side that said the location. But the side of the medallion that talked about the ceremony needed to open the ark wasn't burned into his hand. Without Indiana Jones, the Germans get the full medallion and know about the ceremony and location, they win

But: "They're digging in the _wrong place."_ Calling Marion an "innocent woman" is rather reductive. She was the holder of the medallion that was the head of the Staff of Ra, after all. Indy didn't lead the Nazis to her, but rather *they led him.* He didn't put her in harm's way; her father did, and she stayed there by her own agency. While she _might_ have been able to keep the medallion out of their hands, Indy's presence when they attacked ensured that they only had half of the inscription. Scenario 2 would have them having both sides of the medallion, and they would have had the same warning about not viewing it's contents as Indy did and thus, _wouldn't_ have melted. Most people arguing that this swashbuckler hero in this swashbuckling movie isn't necessary have forgotten a few key scenes and pieces of dialogue.

Yes but we need a badass hero to view the story through.

“He’s just a plot device. He’s meant to be expendable.” “Not to me.”

If the ark was found, every person on Earth who opened it would probably die, including people who had no idea what it was in the first place. At least with Indy, it was found, shipped to a warehouse and studied by "top men" who likely also eventually died due to curiosity.

Indiana Jones is such a good character because ultimately he's a human being. Throughout all four movies he often shows his vulnerable side. We all like Indy because he feels real. Maybe he doesn't have the biggest impact in series but in real life when we do something good, do we always end up winning?

This kind of reminds me that all main villains kill themselves in Raimi's Spider-Man trilogy

Indy will always be my favorite screw up action hero He was my childhood hero as a little kid

I feel like the argument is the same one as "We all die so life is pointless." Like, yeah, you're right. But what you do with the interiim is the point of the exercise.

Indiana Jones is also a mediocre at best archeologist even for the 1930s and 40s. He doesn't document, excavate, or photograph the objects. Everything he finds gets confiscated by the US gov (not how it works here) and its definitely illicit artifact trafficking

He saved Marian's life. If he wasn't there, she would've been melted.

Indiana Jones watching this: *Nerdstalgic, why did it have to be Nerdstalgic?*

You're forgetting one crucial element: Marion. Indy goes to Marion because her father, his mentor, Abner Ravenwood was the leading expert on the ark. She is the one with the medallion and it would have been only a matter of time before Belog would have tracked her down (Indy just sped that up). Had Indy not gotten involved, Marion would have been killed either in the bar by creepy glasses guy or even worse. So NO, Indy wasn't ENTIRELY useless. Just MOSTLY useless.

10 year old me: Finds out Santa isn’t real when I find the roll of gift wrap in my parents’ room 23 year old me: Finds out my childhood hero was useless through a Nerdstalgic video

I think the biggest flaw in this theory is the endgame, while he may be useless for the near entirety of the movie, he is the reason the Ark is recovered from the Germans. Without Indy they keep the Ark, presumably giving them the invincibility. (Supposing they learn to not crack it open)

In Temple of Doom Short Round could have saved those kids all by himself.

In fairness, Marian insists on going with Indie. “YOU NEED ME INDIANA JONES! YOU NEED ME!”

This video encapsulates why I love Indiana Jones so much and why it bugs the hell out of me when characters don't have true flaws that end up with actual consequences.

Me* reading the title *... and I took that personally.

Here before the title changes. Also this argument has always been interesting to me but I’ve always despised talking about it because I originally heard it from the Big Bang Theory, which I Dislike.

I have loved Raiders and Last Crusade for as long as I can remember. John Williams is absolutely the reason I'm a musician and composer.

In the second instance, it might have taken longer for the villains to find the ark. Then, the time would cause something different to happen, such as maybe hitler opening the ark with them. In any case the outcome would be different without Indy

If I've learned anything over the last few years, it's that a lot of people don't really know what a plot hole is.

And that's why I love Indy so much he's no superhero he's a human he's flawed and most importantly he's relatable

To quote Kreia, "It matters not the destination, what matters is the journey."

So... its the same thing as in uncharted where nate always make the bad guy find the secret treasure

And then he completely changes the title good job man

That's what I love about Indiana jones. Even the he starts a snowball effect, he is a regular guy trying to satisfy his natural curiousity and/or trying to stop evil. Yes his actions often make matters easier for the bad guys in the long run, but for us the viewers, and for Indy, it's not always about the result. Its about the adventure and the journey. You see indy pretty much always trying to do what is right. He may grumble about it, but his moral compass is still on point. In a way, Indy is a super simple protagonist, yet at the same time he is a very deep complex character. And thats one of the reasons the Indy films hold a special place in my heart.

OK, but Indy recovers the Ark after the Nazis open it. This is no small thing, because if a casual bypasser found it and opened it, they'd have their heads melted or something. He was sent to recover the Ark, and he did.

If Indy wasn't there, they would've flewn out the arc with the plane, most likely directly to germany, where Hitler would've wanted to personally oversee the opening So... Indy saved Hitler

The problem with this idea is at the end of the movie, the Not-zees still have control of the Ark rather than Indy taking it back to the US. Also, the baddies would have found Marion, likely killed her, and taken the headpiece and found the Ark faster.

"Uselsess"

Actually after the Ark gets opened Indie calls the american army witch recovers the ark. If he wasn’t there the Ark would have been opened, a german regiment dies, the german army would look up what happened and recover the ark and maybe win the war?

why did you discard path three: "They find the McGuffin, weaponized and win"? Nobody know that a priori......

The only reason Indy is "useless" in Raiders is because he refused to blow up the ark. And even then, the reason why the Nazis didn't send more people to recover the ark is because Indy called the US forces after the Nazis died to transport the ark back to the US. Also, the point of the movie isn't the end, it's the adventure, that's why it's 1 hour and 40 minutes long and not a 20 minute video with the last minutes of the story.

Background music on this made me think I was getting a call on Teams

If Indy had never intervened the nazis would've gotten a hold of Marion's medalion, resulting in them NOT digging in the wrong place and finding the Ark perfectly fine without Indy's help. So right there this criticism already falls apart.

If this was made today, everyone would be complaining about it. "This renders the character completely useless, he doe not drive the plot forward, he doesn't defeat the villain" That part of the audience needs the protagonist to do everything, and when he does, they complain the peotagonist didn't have a good supporting cast because he did everything.

This Book is Full of Spiders (the sequel to John Dies at the End) has David talking about his girlfriend saying, "she pointed out to me that if Indiana Jones had just stayed home, Raiders of the Lost Ark would have turned out exactly the same way-the Nazis would have opened the ark and gotten vaporized." The book was released a year before this episode of the Big Bang Theory.

If you let The Big Bang Theory ruin a movie for you You need to really reevaluate yourself

Actually in Part 2, the Nazis find the Arc, but they aren’t pressed or harried, they have plenty of time to bring the Arc where they want, and they can spend the rest of the war testing it and trying to gain access to the powers. They might be able to, at which point they could win the war. Indy’s presence at the final encounter allows him to recover the Arc and bring it back for storage and hiding in the US. While that’s not directly conveyed by the movie, that is certainly the consequence. No Indy, no Marion, no one to stop the Nazis from working their wiles on a recovered Arc. They can burn a few thousand dudes to try to figure it out.

I feel like we're all forgetting a very important Third Outcome: Indy doesn't look for the Ark. The Nazis find it anyway, just slower. They open it, and all die. But wait... the higher-up just got word that the Ark was found, and then nothing... So they send in a second team to see what's up. Since the TOP MEN weren't around to retrieve the Ark, the second team find it along with everybody's corpses, and decide to treat it more carefully. They take it back to headquarters, and figure out how to use it safely with a bit of experimentation. Congratulations, the Nazis now have a fully-weaponized Ark Of The Covenant. All because Indiana Jones decided to stay at the university, and never lead the good guys to retrieve the Ark.

Indiana Jones is a staple of my childhood. To me it’s doesn’t matter if he is useless- what matters is that he has heart. There is something inherently charming about a teacher going on crazy adventures. I think everyone has had that one teacher who has told them crazy stories about his or her life and you always wanted to hear more.

If all the Nazis die when the ark is opened, then no one is there to hide it in any form. Someone else can stumble upon the ark. So Indiana Jones’ role is to prevent anyone from using it again. He fails at stopping the bad guys from getting it, but he saves the day that could have happened when someone else opened the ark.

Isn't that also how the movie starts? When he gets the golden item, it still gets taken by another guy. He literally helps him acquire it.

If Indie never left then Marion would most likely have been killed. I think saving her life counts as heroic (although his prior relationship with her certainly isn’t). I also don’t think clambering around a moving truck is what could be defined as “bumbling”. Most of what indie does is far beyond the capabilities of normal people. His intelligence and his bravery are why we find him so endearing, calling him bumbling is absurd.

This is an absolutely delightful, uplifting and completely logical analysis. Thank you so much!

The whole point of the film is that Indy is only a hair removed from Belloq and just as foolhardy in his quest. What saves him in the end is realizing saving Marion is more important, and then having the reverence to not look at the ark. He's the only guy in that whole group to have figured that out.

That's literally the whole point. It's subversion of the "save the day" movie hero. Also, a plot hole is when something happens in the narrative that contradicts information already established in the narrative. Something not changing the outcome isn't a plot hole. A plot hole would be if Indy had taken a peak in the arc earlier and then later established the "don't look" rule.

It's about the JOURNEY, Not the destination.

This is a kind of modern problem where nerds analyse a movie like it's a video game and the story elements are just puzzles to be solved. They don't derive any meaning from a story. The story is designed for the villains to win but be destroyed by the Ark because they don't know how to show respect to the power of God. Nerds only see it in game terms and think that the lack of game play for their avatar is some kind of issue, ignoring the fact that it's Indiana Jones who creates all the action and excitement in the film. This video makes a nice point about the character. However, the Nazis follow Indy to Nepal because they have a spy on the plane with him. Indy is the only one who knows where Abner might be - "Somewhere in Asia." That's why this theory is and has always been wrong. It IS completely true of "Goldfinger" though. James Bond does nothing at all to affect the outcome of that film.

The Title of The Movie is " Indiana Jones " What's All The Fuss About?🙄

He does affect the plot. If not for him, the Nazis were digging around Tanis for way longer than necessary, and probably killed (either directly or using them as Cannon fodder for the Well of Souls' traps), exploited or harassed more people than the ones they did. Besides, the American government wouldn't probably store the Ark on Area 51 because they wouldn't have an American attaché to pinpoint its location. In addition, he was able to save Marion in Nepal from Toth and his goons, and made amends with her to a certain degree. Also he gains higher knowledge about the supernatural nature of the Ark.

As an archeologist, he suceeds in retrieving the Arch, hence proving it exists. Without him, the Arch would either not be found, or lost (again) on that island, OR it gets retrieved by more cautious Nazis after all the events on the island.

Without him, Marion would be dead and the Allies would have no idea where the Ark is

Ugh! He was never supposed to. The whole point was he was a lover of history and he was witnessing history as an active participant but, He was never meant to change it. I thought that was obvious.

In Raiders, Indyvgets the girl and gives the government what they asked him for. In Temple of doom he doesn't get to keep the stones but he gets the girl and saves the slave children. In Last Crusade, doesn't save the girl who is bad anyway but he finally reconciles with his father, who finally gets his priorities straight: he choses his son's life over the mcguffin that made him neglect him. In Crystal Skull, he gets the girl back, saves her father and develops a relationship with his son (there may be more, In don't remember, this movie lacks the "rewatchability factor" of the rest of the series). Plus, he is great at surviving and has a lot of adventures to tell his grandsons (in the TV show, I guess).

I see where you are going, but bumbling is a terrible, terrible way to describe Indy. Also, Indy didn't lead them to the ark. He outwitted them, if Beloq hadn't come out of his tent and see what was going on, none of the Nazis would have noticed it. It was only Indy's nemesis that noticed it, and that's because it is a film, and failure must happen. Indy displays a vast amount of skill in a number of things, but then those skills bump up against extreme odds. It's like saying, an NFL kicker is useless because in the Super Bowl, under intense pressure, and maybe with an opponent bearing down on him, he shanks the kick. He can make 60 yard kicks in his sleep. He wouldn't be there if he was "bumbling" and "useless". We don't say John McClain is "bumbling" because of his many failures in Die Hard. No, we recognize the odds he is up against. For god's sake, Indy dove into the Med and rode a damn U-Boat back to its pen on the exterior. Also, Indy saved Marion from Todt. Full stop. Then she insisted on going with him. He didn't grab her and say "we are going on an adventure."

If Indiana Jones had stayed at the university in "Raiders", Marion would have been killed by the Nazis, the Nazis would have found the Ark, and even though it would have killed them all when they opened it, then it would have remained in that deserted location where they opened for just anyone else to stumble upon rather than being safely returned to the United States and boxed up in storage where it can neither cause more trouble nor fall into the wrong hands. Indy was very integral to a more positive solution in "Raiders".

My go-to counter for "Indy does nothing in the movie" is "what happens to the arc when it's out in the middle of the desert after the baddies open it?" There's no reason to believe that soldiers didn't have someone in the German army know where they were testing it. Indy being there and surviving insures that the arc gets placed in containment and out of Hitler's hands.

Im glad you stated “Raiders isn’t the Ark’s journey, it’s Indy’s”. The whole time I watched this, that’s all I was thinking. The Ark, whether Indy was involved or not isn’t what matters, it’s Indy’s adventure that’s the main focal point.

You're completely omitting that Indy saved Marion's life. The Germans knew about Abner Ravenwood possessing the headpiece they required. Having learned of his death (most likely), they turned to his daughter, Marion. If it wasn't for Indy intervening, she would have been tortured/killed for the medallion. In doing so, Indy also caused the Germans to only have on side of the headpiece (Toht's burned hand) and therefore kept them from finding it. Indy then tried to go under their nose to find the Ark, and unluckily got exposed. All the while Marion got captured and Jones was forced to make a terrible choice. His (former) lover or the Ark. The story is more about Indy, his relationship with Marion and him being forced to choose between her and the Ark. That's how Belloq also convinces him not to destroy it. Because he wants to see it open too. So, yes it's more about the adventure and Indy then about the Ark, but I don't believe Indiana Jones was factually irrelevant to the overarching narrative.

I mean he’s kind of important because he allows the allied forces to take the ark instead of the Nazis continuing to have control over it even if they can’t open it.

Richard Dreyfus has no impact on the events of close encounters. With or without him, the spaceships are landing at devils tower and meeting with secret government officials. Spielberg’s classics are spectacles, with the protagonists sneaking their way into these huge events so the audience can see it! Raiders fit that pattern. It wasn’t until the SEQUELS-when it became an adventure series-that anyone should think Indy having no impact is a problem. Sheldon’s girlfriend shouldn’t have that opinion after only watching raiders; that’s bad writing on THEIR part.

Picard said “you can do everything right and still fail--that’s life.” He’s right that is life, but it’s also like Indian Jones: you can do everything wrong and still win. Life is a fickle fish, isn’t it.

So to punch and kick as many butts as possible is now useless!? Are U kidding me!?

I want to lay out another possible scenario: The Nazis find Marion and her medallion, then without Indiana there to stop them they use it to find the Ark and take it to the island to open. Everyone there dies, but then...the Nazis have been told where the group was taking the Ark and retrieve it, now knowing exactly how powerful it is and maybe can even study it like Indiana wanted the U.S. to do. This is where Indiana makes a fundamentally important impact on the story where him and Marion take the Ark back to the U.S. instead of it eventually ending up in the hands of the Nazis in this hypothetical scenario. We could say that Marion survives this scenario and takes it herself, but she was also told by Indiana to keep her eyes shut and without that advice she most likely dies. In effect, everything up until the end would be very similar, but I don't think the narrative that nothing changes if he's taken out of the story is accurate.

The problem with the opening of the arc is called "Deus Ex-Machina", but is done well, because is actually God changing the curse of the story. There's an article exploring the arc of Indy during the trilogy, and I read it, I went back, and rewatch the movies with that in mind and the all experience is mind-blowing. But is mind-blowing because a character, a fascinating character that evolves during the events of the movies. With 4 movies, Indy evolves more than any MCU character in 10 movies (or another modern blockbuster) but that only happens because Harrison Ford is the biggest special effect of those movies. If Harrison Ford wasn't Indy, maybe Spielberg/Lucas tried something different, but they said that Harrison was allways very concern in transform Indy in a real person - all the injuries, dirt was Harrison Ford ideia and some quotes - the mileage one, an the making this up as I go. He didn't want to play a superhero. Nice video.

I’m personally a fan of a slightly different take on this same conclusion: Indiana Jones being unnecessary was the point of the movie, not because he was an 80s action hero, but because ultimately it’s a diss on the Nazis. Steven Spielberg is a Jewish director who made a movie featuring Nazis, and while those Nazis certainly are intimidating and dangerous, they aren’t by any means cool. They’re beaten up by a bumbling fool like an Adam West Batman villain, barely achieving their goals by coincidence, and even when Indi fails to stop them the Nazis are smited by God himself. I of course can’t personally say whether or not that was Spielberg’s intention, but I like that reading of the film all the same.

Big bang theory has always sucked and was just hollywood making fun of actsual geeks and nerds. Not to mention them taking away everything that was in nerd and geek culture, smearing their "glamor" on them and ripping them apart while replacing parts and then selling it back to us at a premium.

You should do a video going over the best episode of the big bang theory I would be interested to see what you have to say

Nazis would not have found the ark without Indy -> Indy leads Nazis to the ark -> Discovery of ark leads to Nazis dying Now THAT'S an accomplishment.

I think we also have the benefit of saying "Indy's actions didn't matter" because we've seen the movie all the way through. As of the beginning, there is literally nothing to indicate that the Ark would just kill all the Nazis. All we know is that the Ark has religious and historical importance and the Nazis are getting close to it. Sometimes we nitpick things because we forget that hindsight is 20/20 and it's a lot harder to see clearly ahead in the moment.

The fact that he doesn't really affect the story, or arguably negatively so isn't a glitch, it's a feature. It's subversion of expectation, which is part of what makes it great.

Did this man really misspell ‘useless’ in the title ?

I agree that Ark isn't the point. Indy fails at his initial objective in every film except where his human motivations are concerned. He fails to obtain the ark, but he saves Marion from Toht, and from dying at the end of the film. He fails achieve "fortune and glory" in ToD, but he returns the stone to its rightful owners along with the children of the village. In Last Crusade, he succeeds at rescuing his father, but fails to get the grail in the end. In KotCS it goes the same way. He rekindles his relationship with Marion and gain a son, losing the skull or any proof of its existence along the way. In all four films the MacGuffins were just fancy redirections. The real point was Indy's relationships and his impact on people.

I think you are missing one big point here. The movie is about Indiana Jones wanting to find a lost historical artefact that has great significance for him and archeology, his one true love. It is about Indy's adventure and we follow his journey as the fearless yet humane action hero whose single point focus is to find the arc. In fact, no one knows what the arc would do if it is opened so it doesn't matter if Germans found it and opened it. In the end, Indy found it and served his clear external goal. Once again, the movie is about Indy's quest and not German or Belloq's adventure.

I hate this argument, thanks for giving me this disease i didn’t have before.

The movie is called Raiders of the Lost Ark. The "Indiana Jones and the..." part was added after sequels came out. The movie is about all of the raiders, it's just through Indy's point of view.

Indy saves Marion, who would have been killed by the nazis otherwise. This even adds up to the normal guy experience: He doesn't save the world, he saves the ones he loves; this is what makes a hero.

Good video, and I agree entirely on the importance of Indy's journey in Raiders. I do, however, disagree on how things would have played out if he hadn't been present. Yes, the end result would still have been the same with the Nazis burning upon opening the Ark, but how it got to that point would have been different than you have conjectured, and there is only one way it plays out without Indy involved. You see, the only reason the Nazis were digging in the wrong place is because they didn't have the headpiece to the Staff of Ra. All they had was a duplicate made from the image seared into the hand of the man who tried to grab it in Nepal, meaning their duplicate only had writing on one side (the side that was burnt into the guy's hand), so the staff they were using wasn't the right length. In the hypothetical scenario where Indy never goes on this adventure. The Nazi's would still have gone to Nepal to retrieve the headpiece from Marion. Without Indy present, the bar wouldn't have gone up in flames, but the Nazis would have approached Marion and either tortured her until she gave up the headpiece or just killed her and gone through everything she owned until they found it. And remember, she was wearing it as a medallion until Indy showed up asking about it; it was only after that exchange that she took it off and hung it around that candle holder. Without Indy having showed up to ask about it, she would probably still have been wearing it when they interrogated her, so they would definitely have gotten it, and I suspect Marion would have been killed even if she had given it up. With the true headpiece, the Nazis would have found the Ark sooner, and Belloq, in his hubris, would still have insisted upon opening it before delivering it to Berlin, thus all of those Nazis would have burned. But I guess even the end result is different, as in this scenario Indy isn't present to secure the Ark after what happens, so rather than being safely locked away in a top secret warehouse, it would just be sitting on a random Mediterranean island waiting for whatever hapless fool stumbles across it next. So, even though the end result for the Nazis is the same, Indy's presence was VERY important for anyone would visit that island later on.

Not only did Indy not save the world, but his actions indirectly allowed WW2 to happen. Would Belloq have opened the ark if Indiana hadn’t stolen it back? Nope. It was being shipped directly to Germany, unopened, and Belloq was not pleased. Only because Indy intervened, stole it, and shipped it out on a cargo ship were they in the Mediterranean Sea when the Nazis recovered the ark a second time, but only had a U-Boat and needed to transfer it to a proper ship to continue on. Belloq was then able to take control of the Ark team on the Greek Island. There he decided to open it before it was shipped off again. If Indy didn’t intervene, the Nazi high command would have been present when the ark was opened in Berlin.

I don't think Indiana Jones was supposed to be a 1980s Action Hero. He was a 1930s serial Action Hero made in the 80s. I could be wrong though I'm not really a fan.

Indy is just straight up, the audience. No, his presence doesn't change the outcome of the narrative. But without him, there wouldn't _be_ one. Not only is he a Keanu-like figure to project one's fantasies on, as the the viewpoint character of the story, the person we're supposed to relate to whose lens we're experiencing everything, he _is_ the movie.

Sorry dude I'm 17 and ain't a boomer but the og title, saying its "useless" is dumb and triggering.

There is actually one thing Indy did in the journey of the ark. He DELAYED the Nazis from getting it. Toht was already in Nepal and knew that Marion had the piece that gave the location. He was there to retrieve it (and I am convinced would have if Indy wasn't there). Due to the fire he got half of the instructions so they were digging in the wrong place. So even though he led them there he did at least delay them a little while. So good job for wasting Nazi resources.

Maybe the true Indiana was the Jones we made along the way.