I agree with Matt. The possibility of there being a “God” is too big an issue to leave to heresy and speculation. I have nothing against God and would love to know him; but he should be smart enough to know that intelligent people want proof.
I have plenty against the Abrahamic gods, Hebrew, Christian and Muslim. I don't know too much about other Gods but I would guess they are as big a jackass as the Abrahamic ones, at least if they were real.
@@stephanieconley3234 As a practical matter, it is very difficult to get elected as an out atheist. As a legal matter, a long handful of US states have such things written into their constitutions, but SCOTUS has invalidated faith tests for public office, so those requirements are not enforceable. They won't be repealed, because the faithful will not stand for it.
The minute he heard that the gospels are unsigned and it sounds true, he doesn't want to talk about it anymore. Because he'd have to agree that it's unreasonable to believe.
I just found this channel, and good grief it's like watching Mike Tyson take on third graders in the ring. I had no idea that the vast majority of Christian arguments for the existence of God are some variant of: "because it's in the Bible". But how do you know the Bible is true? "Because it's in the Bible". Egads.
And, as Tracie will point out when another theist makes this assertion (calling it like Kramer beating up on kids in his karate class), it isn't because they only limit their callers to idiots. It's because all of the arguments are incredibly weak and quite easily dealt with.
@Eagle Crow I reject the claim that the book is true because it is full of error and contradiction. It is also blatantly obvious that it is a man-made text.
dont know about in schools but they are in my home lol my 11 year old already loves the question "how do you know". and is then ready with "i dont know" when asked the same question. his follow up is "why is it so hard to just say i dont know" ? the lack of religion has expanded his mind greatly.
Things like this show the inherent dishonesty of religion. When you back them into a logical corner their only recourse is "well the bible says it's the word of god". Which, as Matt points out, is circular. You can't assert that the bible is true because the bible says it is true. I don't know how Matt can do this so much without losing his mind.
I have been thinking the same thing about how Matt keeps it together. I believe he reminds himself not to make it personal and leave emotion out of it. I'd go crazy with many of these people calling in. I totally respect Matt how he handles the insanity of it all.
@@TheTektronik Well thankfully he doesn't keep his cool all the time. You have bunch of clips from the Atheist experience where he goes ballistic, eats and chews the guy up or simply hang off the phone... So, yes, Matt is human too, just with a bit more tolerance to idiots..
Matt can get irritable with douchebags, this caller is not douchey. The point of this show is to continually explore points of view, and to encourage critical thinking. Matt losing it over every little display of ignorance would be counterproductive. People learn tons by just watching the reruns.
I love how it's 'true' when it's in callers favour and 'you're going in a rabbit tunnel' when Matt logically explains everything and he's wrong...I swear I can hear his brain sweating from thinking about what he's being asked🤣🤣🤣😂😂
You should check even a better version of this mindfuck when Forrest talked to the caller: Forrest : If I would set my wife on fire for eternity, would that make me a loving husband? Caller : If you set your wife on fire you never loved her to begin with. Forrest : ...and if God sends me to hell he never loved me to begin with. Caller : .........................WRONG! :D That was priceless!
Learned something new today; The ancient Romans called Christians atheists for not worshiping the pagan deities I never knew that's where the word came from, thanks Matt!
It did come from greece as the roman word for god(s) is deus/dei while theou/theous is greek. Still a moniker for people having a different religion (so comparable to "heathen" or "pagan") than the mainstream one of the nation that talks about it.
When I heard Matt correct himself on his original misuse of the phrase, "begs the question, " I nearly stood and cheered. Off topic, I know, but it brought a grateful tear to my eye.
Matt goes back and forth on his use of "begging the question." He corrects himself when he catches himself misusing it, but the misuse keeps popping back up. It's hard to change ingrained verbal habits, even for a bright guy like Matt.
@@jasonnadal9721 To beg the question means to avoid answering it, as in begging off. Questions which lead to other questions raise those (further) questions.
If one could prove that the story was based upon a real person, that would do nothing to substantiate the supernatural claims which are the significance of the story.
@@whatisitthesedays If this guy is the one I think it is, no, no he wasn't open the the arguments at all. There is a "Brojo" who is an eager disciple of another guy known as "Darth Dawkins", who is one of the biggest assholes I have come across, and totally unwilling too think for himself or even attempt too understand the other side of the argument. I cannot for certain say that this is the same guy, but it sure sounds like it.
Did Alif Laam Meem really exist ? I am he, 3 mysterious letters in the Quoran only God knew the meaning. Satan asked me 3 questions. I saw Hell often, paradise, the void, etc I am the Love and Madness of God to be destroyed in Hell with Satan and his demons for everyone's eternal happiness. Alif Laam Meem is my sacred name, Joshia Christ is a sacred name too having it that we exist and don't exist for we are myths.
I like what Matt often points out about Jesus. It is really irrelevant if Jesus existed or not. There may have been someone that existed Jesus was based on. However, that doesn't mean he was the son of God , that he rose from the dead or he performed miracles. There may have been someone that the story of Buddha was based on too. But that doesn't mean lotus blossoms sprang from the ground that Buddha walked on. The stories of themselves are not proof of anything.
I love the way the caller starts off with 4 logical fallacies in the first 20 minutes: 1. An argument from authority fallacy 2. The argument from insufficient authority fallacy. 3. The argument from popularity fallacy. 4. An argument from circular reasoning fallacy. Note: It was not 325. In 311 AD The Emperor Gallus made it the official religion of Rome. But later Constantine made any other religion illegal. But he was Known as the life long pagan Emperor. He didn't convert to Christianity until his death bed. The "AD" dating system didn't start until about 1519 years ago. Rome went by the fictional birth of their Empire. (750 B.C. by our modern calendar.) So 325 AD (which wasn't an actual year) was really Year Of The Empire 1075. And we didn't start using "B.C." until roughly about 300 years ago. Yes, it confuses me too... And the caller is extremely ignorant on his Bible. He thought the Gospels were written by: Matthew, Mark, Luke and John. And then he goes further and says that they were signed. 99% of people think The Gospels were actually eyewitness accounts of: Mathew, Mark, Luke and John. Even up to 120 years ago only half the world was literate. The Church told them stuff and they believed it. It wasn't possible for some poor English man in 1223 A.D to go into a library or whatever and find out the Gospels were not eyewitness accounts. Even now with most of the modern world literate there isn't a mad rush to find out how true The Gospels are. Most Christians just take it ON FAITH. It might as well be the early 13th century. Dawn of reason my ass! Anyway most Christians just want to push there head into the sand and yell, "The Gospels are all true!!" And not bother to find out. Finding out the truth would mean their comfortable delusion is and has always been a lie.
John Morris @John Morris - Great comment with just one correction/clarification. It was Galerius's Edict of Toleration in 311 that made Christianity legal (followed by Constantine's Edict of Milan in 313), but it was the Edict of Thessalonica in 380 that made it the official religion of the Empire.
Have to break your comment down, but right off the bat a famous bishop was responsible for the ad dating system in 400s, youre off by a thousand years already.
Id agree that the gospels are not eyewitness accounts. 3 of the 4 were probably written as an off copy seeing as any original would have been destroyed obviously. But dont you find it curious the only original we have is the only disciple to die of old age. I would think having the originals of the others would make the story alot less valid.
That's because Matt's genius is to know which question to ask first. It's always a question that requires the caller to explain what he is saying and why he thinks Matt should agree with it. Most callers are good at quoting, terrible at explaining.
In the beginning David claims he has watched this show for years, we later realize this is a lie because a person who watched this show for years would have heard the circular reason get destroyed dozens if not hundreds of times.
I have actually tried talking to people like this they will in person usually try to punch you. For some reason they tend to get very violent when you make them use their brains.
That is exactly what Christians have been asking themselves for millennia now. And also the reason why church, apologists and each Christian's inner feelgood invented the "He will return soon" loophole that is conveniently applied specifically and directly to any new generation of Christians. In other words, you don't have to worry about the logical problems in the entire argument, Jesus will come "soon" and will sort it all out for you. Which is, obviously, a code word for "never".
It's amazing to me that so many people can believe and have faith in something or someone that has no physical evidence to support those claims of their existence.
Exactly! Faith is probably the biggest factor to all this. They want there to be a god, jesus to have existed and there to be an afterlife yet at the same time there is no demonstrable, physical evidence for these extraordinary claims. It just doesnt work for me.
Imagine the thousands of hours that this caller has spent on his religion yet didn't spend a single second on researching is there were any facts or evidence to back it up.
I'm agnostic. Certainly if such a man as Jesus Christ ever existed, he would have been famous and there would be lots of history. Yet, there is hardly anything that exists outside the Bible itself. A man who could perform miracles, walk on water, be able to heal the sick with simply his touch or command, yeah...a guy like that would have been written about by several different accounts. And yet, the Bible is the primary source for Jesus. No one who wrote about Jesus ever actually met him. I don't knock the teachings of Christ. If nothing else, he was a great moral teacher and philosopher. But just like other "saviors" in theology, that predate Jesus, it just seems like nothing more than a myth. Horus, Mithra, and Krishna for example. Simply another copy cat religion. If nothing else, Jesus was a great preacher of love, forgiveness, faith, and philosophy. Jesus and God had to be two separate beings, even though God and Jesus were one in the same. Good video.
I love how uncomfortable he sounds when faith is exposed to be unreliable and not a good reason for believe. "Hmmm.... Im pretty sure you're going down a rabbit hole" Hilarious
Grunthos The Flatulent I’m sure Larry was being sincere there. Thank you for setting him straight on the origins of April. How about Christianity got started because long ago in a land where female adultery was punishable by death, a woman once came up with some bullshit to explain to her asexual gullible husband that she was suddenly knocked up not because she’d been getting her vitamin D from the young goat herder down the road, but because an angel totally came down from heaven and put a baby inside her? 🤷🏻♀️
You know they’ve ran out of reasons you should believe when they fall back on faith. I was this same way. If faith really was enough for them, why not start out with it? They know that faith alone isn’t enough to convince others, but they somehow fail to realize exactly why it is not convincing.
Well, I'm not great at it. I just know it's a logical fallacy and because of that, shouldn't be used to mean 'raises the question'. It's weird, because I wish it COULD be used that way. I want to use it that way. But because I know it has a different, specific meaning in logic, I refrain. TBH, I have to look it up whenever I want be reminded of what it does mean.
I come from a medical background, and people do the same thing with the word 'in shock'. It has a very specific meaning in Medicine, and when people use it to mean 'psychologically stunned', it always jars me a bit.
Begging the question as a logical fallacy is implying that you already have presumed the answer and try to railroad the one you ask into giving you what you WANT to hear. In the most lenient view it means that you do not really want to hear an honest answer, but think you know what it will be. Raising the Question is just that... something leading to a question coming up.
The world has been for a long time engaged in writing lives of Jesus... The library of such books has grown since then. But when we come to examine them, one startling fact confronts us: all of these books relate to a personage concerning whom there does not exist a single scrap of contemporary information -- not one! By accepted tradition he was born in the reign of Augustus, the great literary age of the nation of which he was a subject. In the Augustan age historians flourished; poets, orators, critics and travellers abounded. Yet not one mentions the name of Jesus Christ, much less any incident in his life. - Moncure D. Conway [1832 - 1907] (Modern Thought) Jesus is all myth! Seek the truth!
Sir and madam.....I dont know where you acquire such patience from....these people are so confused and misinformed....you guys are great ! Thanks for the entertainment.
The problem is that logic doesn't always overcome the emotional. If human beings were logical all the time, there would be no such thing as - say - mob rule: a near perfect example of humans running on emotions and unwilling to stop and think through things. There would also be no such thing as successful casinos...because the emotions - not logic - tell enough people, "I might be the one to win the jackpot!". That's what it seems like David is struggling with during this call. He's not an idiot, but instead is struggling with the logic against his emotions. His emotions are the fuel for his faith (it's the reason why the religion a person chooses is based - essentially - on the same reasons people pick their favorite sports teams: If you live in Natikan, Illinois (fictional place, but you get the idea) - and especially if you grew up and went to school there, or you have children that grew up and went to school there - you probably are a fan and cheer for the Natikan Gnats, and you really don't like the rival school down the road, the Gillamete Goldens - even if the Gillamete Goldens are a better team, you still cheer for the Natikan Gnats), and so he's basically having something of an internal battle between logic and emotions. And what does our society generally promote? Follow your heart, right? I other words, "Follow your emotions". Faith, hope and love. Very smart and even usually logic people can easily get caught up in emotions. That's what caller David, and many, many others, Christians, Muslims, it doesn't matter, struggle with. That needs to be taken into account when discussing religion.
Yes i met Jesus at Woodstock,he had a beautiful pure white 1949 Harley Panhead and he could start it by simply pointing at it.He handed out "Son of God" blotter acid to everyone and it was some badass shit, i tripped for several days on just one hit.I'll never forget Jesus, in his long white leather trench coat, riding that pure white Harley Panhead,he comes to me in my dreams sometimes,well some call it flashbacks but i don't care for he is real to me.
The Roman Empire declared itself a Christian empire when only 10% of the populace were believers. Within an extremely short time, that number became roughly 70 to 80%. Catherine Nixey explains in The Darkening Age how brutal, destructive, and violent the believers were in the two centuries surrounding this event. People "converted" for no different reasons than people "converted" to Islam in south Asian and Africa: for fear of losing their property and their lives. And since most of Western history was written by Vatican-financed scribes, we hear virtually none of this.
Jesus and his disciples are just characters in a story. Saying "the disciples were witnesses of Jesus" is like saying "those kids in the movie "It" were witnesses to Pennywise the Dancing Clown".
Lol. Go into any university, find a history professor, and tell them that. You'll be laughed out of the building. There's a reason why historians unanimously believe that Jesus existed - because the evidence is overwhelmingly strong.
@Beef Feet Well the initial comment was so stupid, I didn't see the need. Although I'm happy to oblige! What are you sceptical about? That History professors unanimously accept that Jesus and his disciples existed? Or are you yourself sceptical that Jesus and his disciples existed?
@@williamOwen1990 Yo uobviously went to school with Kent Hovid - only the profs from the Hovid School of Nonsense believe as you appear to. Everyone else considers logic and facts first.
Even though every single individual argument put forward by David failed, he still goes away believing they add up collectively to evidence for his beliefs.
One of the lies put to me was that the gospels MUST be true because they disagree with one another. I'm still wrestling with the logic of this position. Okay we know eye witness accounts are notoriously unreliable but none of the gospels are eyewitness accounts of anything. And the fact they can't even agree about very basic detail ought to concern you if you are a person of faith unless facts genuinely don't matter to you.
By the way, that "rabbit hole" is called logic. I remember my dear Catholic mom warning me that "common sense" (meaning logic, in her mind), is wonderful at all times, EXCEPT when applied to religion, is just the Devil trying to fool us. It worked: I'm an atheist.
The bible stole stories and made it there own. Examples: Jesus Ben Ananias preached that the temple will be destroyed in Josephus's writings (66 ade). They gave this prophecy to the Jesus character in the bible. HERON (HERO) OF ALEXANDRIA (10-70 AD)- CAME UP WITH THE TRICK OF WATER TO WINE IN A JUG AMONG MANY OTHER INVENTIONS. What a coincidence that the Jesus character did the same trick. HINDUISM (2300-1500 BCE)- Has three deities that go by the"Great Trinity" OSIRIS (AUSAR)(2400 BCE)- KILLED, RESURRECTED AND SITS ON A THRONE IN THE AFTERLIFE.(ON PYRAMID WALLS) . Just like the Jesus character, except the mythological Osiris story came about 2400 years before the Jesus character.
Let the evidence show that our citizens are poorly served, for the most part, by our educational system. Listening to those who call in as they attempt to think clearly is painful. I feel so sorry for them.
Our educational system can't be there to question what the various churches, the essentially fear-based indoctrination practices (see the addition of "in God We Trust" on the United States of America's physical currency, and "under God" in the USA's Pledge of Allegiance), and parents/families/guardians who are themselves already indoctrinated and pass along the stories, the rituals and "truth" (can I hear an "Amen"!) everytime and all the time. It's also difficult to question things that become tied so strongly to emotions. There's a reason why religion persists, and even new ones gain a foothold (like Scientology, or the Mormans). It's going to be a long process, and the USA has only been around for a scant handful of generations. That's hardly enough time for any educational system to offset religion, especially those that have taken root for over a thousand years. Personally, I think the founders of the USA (or at least enough of them) knew that they could not eliminate religion, it needed to be discussed out of existence. I think that might have been the underlying reason for the USA being a country with no "Official Religion" with rules preventing the government from creating one, or pointing to one. It will take a long time, but ultimately, I think, discussion and critical thinking exposes the religion fallacy. Let's just hope for the sake of those that follow us on the planet (or other planets) that that the human condition - and our seeming need to have to follow something "bigger" or "better - doesn't mean that it will take thousands of years to do so.
baxtar1963 he's seen the show once or twice, he's either just slow, kind of stupid, or he's been drinking! Probably all of the above! But one thing's for sure, he's a dumbass!
For Jesus to be this very well known person of the time performing miracles before large crowds of people rich and poor and the scribes, high priests, and Pharisees all supposedly knew of him yet there’s not even 1 contemporary written accounting of him during his life or autobiography, that’s very odd!
Hey caller, most universities were established by various churches to train clerics/clergy to propagate their various Faiths, later the churches trained clerks, who sometimes were expected to take holy orders sometimes not and to serve the secular powers as administrators of secular government. Harvard was a religious school established to keep the youth from straying from the true faith (episcopalian?) and whose profs were expected to hold holy orders. Other universities served other true faiths/churches.
Birth month: The Encyclopedia Britannica says: "Christians count one hundred and thirty-three contrary opinions of different authorities concerning the year the Messiah appeared on earth.” One hundred and thirty different years! Towards the close of the eighteenth century, Antonmaria Lupi, a learned Jesuit, wrote a work to show that the nativity of Christ has been assigned to every month in the year, at one time or another. Virgin birth: Only Matthew and Luke mention the virgin birth. Mark and John do not mention it. Paul does not mention it either.
It seems like the majority of callers on this show can not speak confidently about their knowledge of an idea that could send them into eternal damnation. If I believed there was a good chance I would spend eternity in a fiery lake, I would know my shit inside and out.
Possibly the only calls published are from those who cannot defend their faith... and actually I agree with you, which is odd for me to ever agree with a non-believer, but in this case you are exactly right, they should take the time to know why they believe because the faith is not a blind faith, scripture actually rejects that proposition... Christians are to know how to defend the scripture. That is a command found in 1 Peter 3:15 which says we are to be ready to defend our faith, and the word used is the greek word apologia, which means to give a legal and logical reason. In addition to that, people who want to argue against it should have solid evidence to offer other than just a blank statement that goes something like this "Jesus never existed, this is just a fairy tale"... do you know how much thought, how much study goes into a statement like that? Zero, and that is just about the same amount most Christians put into it as well.... Zero...There have been many men in history and in modern times, men with great minds, who were non-believers, but they were honest, and they had enough courage to admit they were wrong. They put in, sometime years, trying to prove Christianity was based upon fairy tales for those afraid of death, and to a man they came out of their studies as Christians, and evangelist. C.S. Lewis is one, from the 20th century, considered one of the greatest minds of his time, a professor at Oxford, and another who is still around is Josh McDowell. There are a number of Scientist from all fields, and mathematicians who have signed the dissent from Darwinism displaying great courage knowing the criticism they will receive from the public. The sad thing is that even with overwhelming evidence of the truth of scripture, those who reject Christ will still reject Christ. Christian apologetic (defenses) are actually for the Christian, and those on the fence. Once used to help a non-believer understand they are not committing intellectual suicide by accepting Christ, it is now useless in that area, we have reached a time, when hearts and minds have been hardened against any evidence..
@@jimjodycarmichael455 Have you watched the show??? The argument falls down as faith is not a reliable way of establishing truth. How do you know the show is edited????...........A presupposition.........evidence...........faith??? Here is my take on the show being edited. I don't think it is and I think they would tell you although the show goes out live. I will use a Christian argument then........I have faith that it is a warts an all show and there is no edits. The footage you can watch can be the whole show or various clips. I wish Christians and other believers would just admit that Faith is pretending to know things you don't know. Hence, why all arguments are torn apart on the shows
As soon as I thought carefully about the death of Jesus, I stopped believing. I couldn't see any reason why his father arranged for him to be nailed to a cross. It was immediately obvious to me that the official reason was invented. I wonder why believers can't see the truth.
@@tedgrant2 Yours sounded like Eclesiastical conspiracy theory. The official story. (Can't get more The Man than Jehovah.) The coverup. Caesar's Christ?
Organized religion enjoys a distinct advantage because it addresses the loneliness, fear, and sadness that a person will experience in their life, especially when they are young. The fact that religion rests in the unfalsifiable helps their cause, shepherding those who want to be the exception to a material world indifferent to their existence. The god lie will never be proven false, can be shared with friends and family, and gives personal meaning and comfort when real minds and reality fail to meet expectations. Religion is the collection of our fears, delusions, superstitions, and collective desire to have our truths imposed rather than challenged.
I used to find this channel amusing and entertaining..... Until I realized that some of these kind are in the top levels of U.S. government.... and the White House. Then shit got real, and funny not so much.
Jesus is a legendary, mythical character, raised to an archetypal dimension, and who has the same (in) consistency as the characters described for example in The Golden Bough by James George Frazer. He is thus often compared to Mithras, Dionysus, Sol Invictus or Aesculapius. Its personality is the fruit of a theological elaboration, having gradually taken on a historical dimension from the 2nd century of the Christian era. In this context, Jesus is a conceptual character, instrumentalized by the early Christians. No conclusive document or archaeological evidence attests to the existence of Jesus of Nazareth: Christian texts are not trustworthy, and non-Christian texts are of questionable authenticity or echo Christian discourse.
Bro, we have lots of evidence there were people going around saying “what’s up with this fake Christianity?”. Especially from early Christian writers who were writing counter-apologetics against those criticisms.
If the biblical Jesus, and his miracles, existed he would have been noted in contemporary records. He would probably been shipped off to Rome to entertain the emperor.
By the end of this call the guy sounded like he more or less knew that he had really lost the argument but he'll cling to his religion anyway. It's like "oh well, at least I have faith".
Kind of like when Einstein reluctantly admitted there had to be a God... his thought process was just too irrational... sad you weren't around to help him get his mind straight....
Scholarship overwhelmingly agrees that a historical Jesus did exist, Matt is being very disingenuous here. When he says some scholars don't, he means Robert Price and Richard Carrier. They are about it. To suggest that only Christian scholars agree that he exists just isn't accurate, Ehrman wrote a book at arguing for Jesus's existence for Pete's sake.
Matt might do well to take it a bit easier on these poor deluded souls. He can come over as a bit of a bully. Give callers a bit of wriggle room and they will usually wriggle themselves into blind ally. Just a thought.
4 года назад
It always amazes me when a theist is proven wrong they will always look for some excuse to dismiss the obvious just so they can preserve the fantasy of their belief. They are conditioned to lie by their religion.
The end of this argument reminded me of the REVERSE of cookie monster trying to figure out how to combine F with OOD by slowly bringing the F closer to the OOD until the ding and light bulb went of in cookie's head and he exclaimed "FOOD!" then ate all the letters as well as the salt saker, pepper shaker and is own napkin DAVID on the other hand, had the example of how he was wrong explained many times, each time bringing one half of the concept closer to the other half, which with he was ok. Then when confronted with the truth he said "MMM' I think you're going down a rabbit tunnel." Fun times indeed.
One who believes in fairytales is called delusional!! Many people believing in the same we call religion!! Amazinggg the 21st century and we're still dragging this dogma around .
The historical validity of Jesus is very clear and it agrees with the gospel accounts. A basic internet search shows many in the first century who reported the earliest events of Christianity.
If the stories were true! I think the 30 or 40 poeople who seen it with their own eyes would have immediately start talking and looking for a way to document this the most incredible thing they have ever seen. Not to mention the people all the fish fed. Those people would never have left his side. And from that minute on everything would have been documented. And since then we have been pleaged with one Christian atrocity after another.
