I had to bite my tongue so hard in my college theater class when we did a one acts (collection of short plays) and one of them was on "the connection of Saturnalia and Christmas." The writer didn't do any actual research
@@InspiringPhilosophy AMEN brother Inspiring Philosophy I really appreciate your Christian Apologetics and spreading information over misinformation. Exactly Saturnalia has nothing to do with Christmas ⛄🎄. AMEN brothers and sisters in Christ our Lord and God bless ya brother Inspiring Philosophy. I just wanted to let you all know how much of an influence you've been in my work in Christian Apologetics these past few months. Atheism is nuts it's a nonsensical conclusion that Atheists use science to come to having Creation without a Creator just a creative Force that inexplicably came about on it's own without guidance, consistency or assurance of it's success or purpose just random irrational events that they worship because it cancels out the moral accountability and responsibility that they would have to a Creator. Thanks to The Lord our God for preserving His Word through the centuries of history in The Bible so Christians and Apologists can do Good in uploading these videos. This Apologetics ministry always does good work in your efforts in the furtherance of The Gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ you're reaching thousands to millions of people who are seeking after The Truth of God's Existence, Word and Character in our reality 🙏❤️👊. This has nothing and everything to do with the video but please listen if you want to otherwise leave it alone and ignore it. Hello my name is Justin and I'm a fellow Christian and Apologist but I'm also a college student. I'm not a closed minded Theist as I have nothing against Atheists or unbelievers as I speak to them often to understand their reasons for unbelief but we as Christians are convinced of God's Existence due to many real factors). I'm not trying to convert anyone or convince anyone to become Christians as that's The Holy Spirit's job to help people believe but only explain why I believe in Jesus Christ. There's actually evidence of God's Existence in Christianity. First of all there's proof that Jesus of Nazareth existed in history since the writings of Tacitus, Josephus Flavius, Pliny the younger and other historical documents prove that He was living two thousand years ago that even scholars both religious and Atheists agree with historically speaking but not that He's The Divine Son of God because obviously they don't. I'm going to give you historical and archeological evidence for God's Existence as The Scriptures have prophecies that predate the events recorded in them by several millennia including Matthew, Hosea and Zechariah which prophesy accurately of the people of Israel becoming a nation again after over 1900 years of being scattered around the nations since the destruction of the Temple in Jerusalem in 70 A.D. spoken of by Christ in Matthew 23:29-24:3 and returning to their homeland after The Holocaust with Jerusalem as their capital in 1948 exactly as Jesus The Christ said. The prophets including Daniel spoke of the time where several world empires would arise and fall including the Babylonian kingdom, Medes and Persians, Roman Empire, and Saladin and the Muslims which went in consecutive order for the past few millennia. The people of Israel becoming a nation after The Holocaust in 1948 (ironically the melting point of gold as God compares Israel to gold that's tested in fire in Zechariah 13:8 and Jeremiah 16:15) exactly how Jesus The Christ said would happen since God us everything to come in The Scriptures and not just because people were working towards as Atheists claim which are impossible for any regular man to predict. Just before anyone says Christianity is a white man's religion made to oppress blacks during slavery you obviously aren't aware that the first Christians were Jews in The Middle East and that Christianity just like any religion can be used by evil and corrupt people to oppress others but you forget that the first Abolitionists/Civil Rights activists were Christians who sought to abolish slavery, racism, segregation, injustice and prejudice throughout American history. Jesus The Christ loves you enough not to give you what we all deserve which is God's Wrath by His Own Blood. Charles Darwin didn't originally come up with The Theory of Evolution over 200 years ago as it is mentioned in the writings of Ancient Greeks who believed in Demons that gave knowledge to philosophers. Evolution makes no sense when nothing has evolved after thousands of years of human history and supposedly the first creature came from primordial sludge several millions of years ago funny how they won't believe that God an Eternal Almighty Spirit Being created us from the Earth) which came from a supermassive expansion of matter at high temperature that inexplicably created everything in the known universe that supposedly came from nothing billions of years ago. How did the organs evolve before there were bones, skin, substance and how did any creatures see before eyes evolved? I've studied evolution and abiogenesis in the past and read Darwin's " Origin of The Species" I've studied evolution and abiogenesis in the past and read Darwin's " Origin of The Species" and I'm not convinced of but not macro or micro Evolution because there's no evidence of it nor clear observable examples of it where living creatures evolve into other kinds of species plus the fact that fossils don't show evidence of evolution and genetic entropy rules out evolution. The question begs how did two genders evolve from a common ancestor with a perfectly hospitable and sustainable environment with breathable oxygen and resources to survive on inexplicably? Atheists have the burden of proof to explain how everything came to be and why our existence is possible without the Existence of God from an godless perspective just as Christians have to provide evidence of God's Existence and the validity of His Word. Evolution requires life to already exist in order to take any effect in living organisms so it doesn't account for the existence of Life and reality. Also evolution is impossible because it goes against The Law of entropy and the second Law of thermodynamics because evolution makes things better whereas nothing continues to get better but decays and turns to absolute destruction in the end. Mark Ridley an Evolutionist said "No evolutionist whether gradualist or punctuationist uses the fossil record as evidence in favor of The Theory of Darwinian Evolution as opposed to special Creation". God's Existence is made perfectly known and observable in the universe as demonstrated in His Handiwork in the intelligently designed manner that Creation was made, human consciences and consciousness historical and archaeological evidence of God's Word being valid history, fulfillment of Bible Prophecies God in His Holiness and Righteousness could give us what we deserve in Hell for our since but He's merciful to give us free will to choose to accept or reject His gift of salvation by grace through faith in His Son Jesus. I don't mean this is any condescending manner but if you'd like to discuss The Scriptures with me or have me listen to your view on anything my instagram account is Savage Christian Kombatant.
@@501Mobius which oral traditions about Saturnalia? The constant discreting of Christmas comes from militant anti-Christian people and zealots who hate everything "pagan" and see the Devil at every corner. There is zero evidence of the connection between the two feasts, because they are incredibly different (I don't remember Christmas ending with a slave being sacrificed)
The date for Christmas came from Hippolytus' (Pope of Rome in late 2nd century to early 3rd century) commentary on Daniel. In 204 AD, he ascribed the date of Christ's birth to December 25th because it was 9 months after the annunciation to Mary. Sol Invictus was dated December 25 later on, I believe closer to 275 AD.
@@History_MadeMe_Catholic Indeed, he agreed that it was December 25. As did St. John Chrysostom (347-407), who is a very important figure in the early church.
"Soon all ze world will confess that is, is not is, as long as the definition of is is not is as long as the definition of is is not--" (That's from Redeemed Zoomer's morning schnitzel video)
It's not so much what you do it's more why you do it. If I wanna decorate a evergreen tree it's not because I'm unknowingly participating in a pagan festival it's because I'm doing something nice and bonding with my kids and family. People can only assume what's in my mind and heart but God knows. Cool video.
The point is that most thoughtlessly do things because they know not why, just because it's "tradition" or everyone else is doing it. You should know WHY you're doing something especially if it involves God.
Of course God knows what is in our heart, do we care what is in his heart? If it is based on a horrible abomination to the lord where infants were burned to death why would we adopt customs resembling that? Reference: Jeremiah 10:2-4 King James Version (KJV) Thus saith the LORD, Learn not the way of the heathen, and be not dismayed at the signs of heaven; for the heathen are dismayed at them. For the customs of the people are vain: for one cutteth a tree out of the forest, the work of the hands of the workman, with the axe.“They deck it with silver and with gold; they fasten it with nails and with hammers, that it move not.”
I feel like at this point my arguments about Christmas and different Christmas traditions not having pagan origins has been more with other Christians than atheists or pagans. It gets a bit exhausting this time of year having to constantly hear and refute ridiculous nonsense about Christmas's "totally" pagan roots that has zero legitimate sources or arguments backing it up.
It gets interesting when you realise all this rubbish you hear about the "pagan roots of Christmas" is entirely the fault of fundie Protestants in the 19th and 20th century, who came up with this bullshit, so as to attack the "Popish feast of Christmas". Their descendants eventually left the Faith itself but continued believing the b.s. they were fed about Christmas and its "pagan roots" Heck, the Puritans in America straight up banned the celebration of Christmas in Boston for around 20 years.
Where in the bible does it say Jesus was born on december 25th? Where are christmas trees mentioned as honoring the birth of Christ? Lets just pretend there is no pagan origin... there definitely isnt a Biblical origin either. So where did these things come from if not the Bible?🤔
@ceebee7707 Where in the Bible does it say that the internet should be used by Christians? What about praying with your eyes closed? What about having a potluck after the service to celebrate with one another? What about any of the other countless, random, specific things not explicitly outlined by the Bible that Christians can do in their worship of God? These are stupid arguments; no one, at least no one I take seriously, is saying that Christians MUST celebrate Christmas to be Christians. If you do not want to celebrate it, don't. If you do want to celebrate it, do. We have liberty in Christ. Christmas trees, Christmas being on the 25th of December, and any of the other things about Christmas we have to hear about at this time of year from legalistic internet people are not pagan, and Christians choosing to do those things are not pagan or sinful for doing them. If Christians were saying that you had to celebrate Christmas to be Christian, they would be legalists and wrong. Likewise, Christians saying that you can not or should not celebrate Christmas to be Christians or to not sin are legalists and wrong as well.
@ceebee7707 oh and I get you meant your questions to be a rhetorical gotcha but these questions do have answers. Things like Christmas trees have origins in Christian traditions external to the Bible. The Christmas tree comes from passion plays where churches would put on plays around Christmas time to celebrate the biblical narrative. The Christmas tree was used for the tree of life and the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. Northern european countries had to use evergreen trees in these plays in the winter and they decorated them to look like what they imagined those trees to look like. Getting upset that Christians have traditions external to the Bible is the equivalent of getting mad at the church down the street that has an annual chili cook off on the fourth of July the past 50 years where they come together in fellowship and worship of Christ. Is voting on who has the best chili biblical? No, but who cares? It honors Christ and is fun... just like the Christmas tradition. Do Christians need to have a chili cook off like that church to be Christian? Definitely no, but many churches could see the benefit and fun of doing something like that and likewise Christmas and its traditions when they are pointed to the redemptive incarnation of God in Jesus and the gospel in general. Christmas is such an easy time to be able to talk about Jesus and the gospel with our secular neighbors that it is no wonder Christians continue to celebrate the holiday by worshipping Christ and spreading the Gospel through the true message of God with us!
@@skyorrichegg Any traditions external from the bible are not Christian. The Bible tells us not to add to or take away from the word. nobody ever labelled chili making as God ordained. Nice strawman argument though.
The Church did not fully accept Christmas until around the 1800s. The Apostles never celebrated Christmas and neither did the 1st century Church. Why should we? Yes we should remember Christ's incarnation but Christ never tells us to celebrate His birth, but His death via the Lord's Supper. Jesus was not born during winter time either, so if one were to celebrate it it would have to not be during winter. GOD bless you!
Which Church? The Catholics and the Eastern Orthodox were literally celebrating High Mass on Dec 25th for centuries. The word "Christmas" is literally a shortened form of "Christ's Mass" The Church did not fully accept Christmas? Yeah, Protestants churches didn't because they associated it with "Popery" and wanted it banned. The ancient Churches have been celebrating Christ's Mass for centuries without it being a bother
@@savioblanc ancient churches? Not the early church. Of course the catholic church celebrated it. Those who worship saints and angels. The Bible does not support the celebration of Christmas. And most of those who celebrate it are doing it because it's fun, everyone does it, and it has the word "Christ" in it, but if we were to make halloween into something like "Christ-o-ween" then I'm sure people will celebrate it if we change the costumes into "Biblical" ones and we celebrate something that relates to the Bible. Everything will remain the same but it will be "Christianized" just how saturnalia along wiith other religions were "Christianized" to fit the Christians with the Roman empire.
Source that Christ wants both during winter? The entire early church based his birth on the belief he died the same day as his conception which would’ve been March 25th so 9 months later is December 25th. There is absolutely no actual reason to not believe this isn’t true. And this belief also originated long before it was made an official holiday in the early 300s.
@@bemimu Yes, but you never see palm trees, sand and sandmen as symbols of Christmas. you see pine trees, snow and snowmen. Jesus told us to remember His death and resurrection, not His birth for Jesus is from everlasting to everlasting. (Revelation 22:13) "I am the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End, the First and the Last.”
Actually they were just used as props in plays for the feast of Adam and Eve. They were meant to represent the tree of knowledge, and since the plays were during winter, the only trees available were pine trees.
Jesus Christ could not have been born on December 25th because there is no historical or biblical evidence to support this date. While the exact date of Jesus’ birth is unknown, historians have concluded that it was most likely to have taken place in the springtime, as this is the time of year when shepherds traditionally watched their flocks at night. This is corroborated by the New Testament, which states that an angel appeared to the shepherds in the fields and announced the birth of Christ (Luke 2:8-20). The Gospel of Luke also states that a Roman census was taken at the time of Jesus’ birth (Luke 2:1-7), which would have occurred in the springtime, not winter. Furthermore, historians believe that Jesus was likely born in 6-4 BC, a date that does not correspond to the December 25th holiday. In summary, the evidence suggests that Jesus was not born on December 25th, as there is no historical or biblical evidence to support this.
Love your knowledge of Christmas and past pagan information. 🙌🏼🙏🏼👍🏼 If you get a chance Father Chris Alar also gives a really good informative info on Christmas history and its link to the early church. Love your work my kind Sr. Keep them coming. 👍🏼🙌🏼🕊️🕊️
Hey brother, I plan to go all in on creating video content from my Christian theme channel starting January, your channel is one of the ones that have inspired me to go all in, do you have any suggestions for when I do this?
Origin and development The early Christian community distinguished between the identification of the date of Jesus’ birth and the liturgical celebration of that event. The actual observance of the day of Jesus’ birth was long in coming. In particular, during the first two centuries of Christianity there was strong opposition to recognizing birthdays of martyrs or, for that matter, of Jesus. Numerous Church Fathers offered sarcastic comments about the pagan custom of celebrating birthdays when, in fact, saints and martyrs should be honoured on the days of their martyrdom-their true “birthdays,” from the church’s perspective.
Christmas is often seen as a joyous holiday celebrating the birth of Jesus Christ, but its roots can be traced back to the Roman festival of Saturnalia. Saturnalia was a week-long holiday observed in December to honor the Roman god Saturn. This festival was characterized by gift-giving, partying, gambling, and excessive drinking. For early Christians, Saturnalia was seen as a pagan festival that was completely at odds with their spiritual beliefs. As a result, many early Christians refused to partake in the festivities in any way. In the 4th century, Christians began to rebrand Saturnalia as Christmas to make it more palatable to their faith. This included changing the focus from the Roman god Saturn to Jesus Christ and downplaying the more pagan aspects of the holiday. While this allowed Christians to join in the festivities without compromising their faith, it is important to remember that Christmas is, in essence, a rebranded version of Saturnalia. For this reason, Christians who are committed to their faith should therefore not celebrate Christmas as it is a pagan holiday that has been rebranded to fit Christian beliefs. While the focus of the holiday has shifted to Jesus, the core traditions are still rooted in paganism and therefore should not be celebrated.
@@ny020 Which of his points do you think are the most compelling? Here are several scholarly sources:1. Beck, Roger. "The Saturnalia and the Origins of Christmas." Classical World 87.2 (1993): 175-184. 2. Gros, Pierre. "The Christianization of Saturnalia: the Date and Meaning of the December 25th Feast." Harvard Theological Review 92.1 (1999): 19-38. 3. Leeming, David. "The Pagan Origins of Christmas." History Today (2009): 46-51. 4. Magliocco, Sabina. "Pagan Holidays, Christian Saints: The Christianization of the Calendar in Early Medieval Europe." Journal of Folklore Research 42.3/4 (2005): 207-236. 5. Molnar, Michael. The Pagan and Christian Roots of Christmas. Praeger Publishers, 2004. 6. O'Donnell, James. "The Saturnalia and Christmas" Harvard Theological Review 78.3/4 (1985): 243-258. 7. Pérez-González, María D. "Saturn and Christmas: The Saturnalia and the Origins of Christmas." Early Medieval Europe 18.4 (2010): 488-503. 8. Rives, James. "The Imperial Cult and the 'Period of the Saturnalia'." The Journal of Roman Studies 89 (1999): 135-154. 9. Seidel, L. "The Saturnalia and the Origins of Christmas." The Classical Journal 71.6 (1976): 439-443. 10. Toner, Jerry. "Saturnalia and Christmas in Ancient Rome." Past & Present 199.1 (2008): 3-24.
Let's try to narrow that down a bit. As people can write books without any ancient sources. Which book did you conclude that Christianity confirmed a direct connected root to Saturnalia and what ancient source did that book present as its evidence? Was is that compelling to you as opposed to things like the Calculation theory?
Don’t forget barn animals get sick easier if they don’t get enough fresh air. Mild winters exist. Barns have to be cleaned, and can sometimes need to be cleaned if a sheep suddenly had diarrhea. And night can also refer to evening or around the time of sunset, and did I mention the existence of mild winters?
Hey IP, can you do a video responding to people who use the Native American Boarding schools to generalize all of Christianity? Or people who say Christianity is inherently evil because of isolated moments of time when Christians were bad at being Christian.
When my son was 3 I explained we give gifts to symbolize how Jesus was the best gift ever. He replied that his best Christmas gift was toys. So I put a pin in that conversation for a couple more years.
But role reversal _was_ a part of Christmas tradition centuries ago. Christmas may be older than saturnalia (which I’ve heard in one of your videos), but at some point role reversal indeed found it’s way into Christmas, but has now been largely lost.
I remember reading something that said that Saturnalia was originally a summer holiday and it was moved at some point after the Dec 25th date was decided. Dec 25th was an attempt to calculate Jesus’ birthday.
It wasn't shortened to 3 days it was a weeklong it was originally one day but then it was rightly extended to a week as its Sacred time was week holding.
We Catholics give our children gifts on Saint Nicholas’s Geist day, December 6. Also on Epiphany (January 6) the three wise men first day. The kids usually leave a shoe by the door, window, or chimney on Saint Nicholas. Gifts on Christmas is an American thing.
Hey did you know the book of Enoch was written by the apostle Hertzog who was supposed to be pope after Jesus died but unfortunately Marcus Arelious sabotaged his papacy and then fled to Argentina after WW2?
The connection is that Rome eventually became a Christian empire therefore using traditional celebrations and implementing them into the new culture, “changing/redefining “ the reasons behind them
My ss teacher would tell us the correlations of current Christmas celebratory traditions with Jesus’s birth. For ex. the gift giving tradition you brought up.
There is so much standing in front of a Christian it seems impossible to get through a day much less a life of keeping up to God's standards. I fail daily , I try harder but the trappings of life a many . I don't know if it's bad to share in customs but I do know that no matter the customs or the cultures i share I have my faith in Christ and that is something i get to share with others .
Despite the popular myth, Yeshua’s birth has nothing to do with Christmas either. He was not born on that day, he doesn’t even receive gifts on that day..we do. But hay keep using it as an excuse to over indulge, get gifts or making sure everyone knows “you gave a gift” while going in debt because we can’t do it anonymously. We are only doing what we want to do for our own reasons… not cause we love God.
Exactly. According to Yochanan 10:22, Hanukkah 🕎 is the holiday that took place during the winter which Yeshua condoned. There's many reasons why he wouldn't have considered Christmas & D'varim 12:28-31 states why Christmas shouldn't be celebrated. Blessings come from Adonai & not from a fat man with a beard that was inspired by a rumored pedophile named St. Nicholas.
In my culture throughout the past only children were given presents (walnuts, apples or oranges) and that was on the 6th of the December when St. Nicolas is. Not on Christmas. We still keep that tradition in our family. For Christmas we celebrate Christ's birthday.
His trying to insinuate that the Christmas is not a pagan Holliday and it came from Christians? show me where the deciples of Jesus celebrating Christmas or show me in the Bible where it says you should celebrate Christmas?
@@deeayeveeeyees haha and you completely missed it.. Do you always need someone to tell you whats happening and whats happened? You're literally saying that only after you see my birth certificate and gather enough evidence to prove its legitemacy and evidence to prove its actually mine would you would say i exist even if i was standing right in front of you.. there's no way you're that dumb
ORIGINS OF CHRISTMAS The origins of Christmas stem from both the pagan and Roman cultures. The Romans actually celebrated two holidays in the month of December. The first was Saturnalia, which was a two-week festival honoring their god of agriculture Saturn. On December 25th, they celebrated the birth of Mithra, their sun god. Both celebrations were raucous, drunken parties. Also in December, in which the darkest day of the year falls, the pagan cultures lit bonfires and candles to keep the darkness at bay. The Romans also incorporated this tradition into their own celebrations. As Christianity spread across Europe, the Christian clergy were not able to curb the pagan customs and celebrations. Since no one knew Jesus’s date of birth, they adapted the pagan ritual into a celebration of His birthday It Kinda Did Well Half of It. Nothing To Do With Jesus Either
Still not gonna keep it.. I'm not gonna lie to my kids and say its Jesus birthday or that a guy in a red suit is sneaking in the house while they sleep and giving them gifts.. regardless of it origins, it's sinful to keep those traditions.
The reasons the Church implemented Christmas on the 25th is to say, "we are celebrating the birth of Christ on this day" not that Christ was specifically born on the 25th.
Many of the traditions associated with Christmas, such as the Christmas tree, gift-giving, and the Yule log, originated in pre-Christian pagan cultures. In northern Europe, the Norse celebrated Yule, a pagan festival that marked the winter solstice. Ancient Romans celebrated Saturnalia, a festival in honor of the god Saturn that was marked by gift-giving and merrymaking. In other parts of the world, the solstice was celebrated with feasts and bonfires. These and other pagan traditions have been incorporated into modern Christmas celebrations.
@@hezekiahwallace2412 Ive seen that, dude makes broad generalizations and literally dismisses decades of scholarly concensus. In another one of his videos he made, the main message is how its ok for christians to cuss/use vulgar language. He is teaching false doctrine and smooth brained dimwits who are too lazy to do any research, are the only ones who are falling for it.
The Bible does say they brought gifts, but doesn’t say when. Is it more likely that they knew the actual date of Jesus birth 356 years later, or that it had been a celebrated day since time immemorial? Considering they’d only just decided 30 years earlier that the crucifixion/resurrection would be celebrated on the Sunday after the full moon closest to the spring equinox, they might not have those dates down so good. Or they’re just making them up based on older tradition.
Do you buy gifts for Jesus on christmas or do you buy gifts to satiate the desire for material possessions and for external validation/affirmation? Christians adopted Saturnalia traditions in an effort to evangelize the pagan Roman population. The first Christian celebration of Saturnalia was held in 336 CE, when the Roman Emperor Constantine declared it a Christian holiday. Evidence suggests that some of the Saturnalia traditions, such as gift giving and feasting, were kept and modified by Christians.
I've heard conflicting points on this: Saturnalia was originally a one day celebration on the 17th then expanded until the 23rd. But, in this video, brother IP said it was originally a week long celebration shortened to three, not one. Confused. Just looking for clarity. Any help is much appreciated.
I like how you shoot down theories you don’t like by saying there is no evidence of them then propose your theory of gift giving coming from the tradition of the magi even though there is no evidence to that… if you don’t like a theory it’s lack of evidence is damming but for your theory no evidence is needed
The only evidence he presents that these two occasions are unrelated is that one came about centuries later. If Saturnalia didn’t inspire Christmas, what did? We know Jesus wasn’t born on Christmas, so what gives?
I clicked on this video to unsubscribe. But since you sounded almost pleasant instead of put-off/angry/out-of-patience or whatever it is, I decided not to unsubscribe. Merry Christmas, sir! (And thank you)
@@sherrih5068 and I think certain audiences respond better to that type of reaction, too. If he knows his audience best responds to that, then he shouldn't change only on my account.
It's apparent you lack discernment. It's the mixing of the worldly holidays with the biblical festivals for me, and Yah for that matter. But go on, keep leading people astray.
Unpopular opinion: gift giving is to commemorate the greatest gift that was given, the gift of God in the flesh (as a sacrifice for the sins of Adam and all of his descendants) The Christ. I make a joke, I say Christmas must be Spanish. Because we need Christ more. Not really funny, I know, shows how right I am
What's the evidence that the Christmas gift gifting came from magi? This is nonsense. But hey, let's assume it because a few theologians happened to say so. Let's ignore the fact that people did give gifts to each other on Saturnalia and this continued to be the custom which christians simply reinterpreted and adopted.
I really want to believe what you say about Christmas so that I don't have to give it up as Deuteronomy 12 suggests. But I rarely hear any counterarguments. You seem to just straw man or say "There is no evidence for that." Everyone else is finding evidence so why not just prove them wrong instead of trying to straw man them?
The main argument I see for this is people saying the date of December 25th was absorbed from this even though it’s a few weeks later. Why was December 25th chosen? And how far back is their record of Saturnalia being celebrated on today?
Dec 25th comes 9 months after the Feast of the Annunciation, which was and is celebrated by the older churches in both the east and the west, on March 25th
@@jamesdaviesanswers8751 there seems to be an older Christian tradition of March 25th being the Date of Creation, due to the spring equinox and the Date of the Redemption of that Creation by Christ. This became the Feast of the Annunciation. And 9 months later, Christmas is celebrated
No one may, after a heathenish fashion, dress himself on the 1st of January like cows (or old women) and stags, or make diabolic new year’s presents; but on this day no other gifts shall be made than have been customary.”- Council of Auxerre, Canon 1 “Your Sabbaths, and new moons, and ceremonies”, says He, “My soul hates.” By us, to whom Sabbaths are strange, and the new moons and festivals formerly beloved by God, the Saturnalia and New-year's and Midwinter's festivals and Matronalia are frequented - presents come and go - New-year's gifts - games join their noise - banquets join their din! Oh, better fidelity of the nations to their own sect, which claims no solemnity of the Christians for itself! Not the Lord’s Day, not Pentecost, even if they had known them, would they have shared with us; for they would fear lest they should seem to be Christians.”- Tertullian of Carthage, On Idolatry Ch. 10,14 “Are you going to take part in a celebration of the New Year? Are you, just like a pagan, going to play dice and become intoxicated when you believe, hope, and love otherwise? How can you then sing with an open countenance: 'Save us, 0 Lord our God: and gather us from among the nations'?........ When they give gifts, do you give alms. They are called away by songs of license; you, by the discourses of the Scriptures. They run to the theatre; you, to the church. They become intoxicated; do you fast. If you are not able to fast today, at least dine in moderation. If you have acted thus, then you have rightly sung: 'Save us, 0 Lord our God: and gather us from among the nations.' Many will wrestle in their hearts today with the word which they have heard, for I said: 'Do not give gifts, but give to the poor.' It is not enough merely to give-you should give generously. Do you not wish to give more? Well, just give. But you object: 'When I give New Year's gifts, I myself give to myself.' What then? Do you receive nothing when you give to the poor? You surely would not believe what the pagans believe; you surely would not hope for what the pagans hope for. But if you say that you get nothing when you have given to the poor, you have become one of the pagans and without justification you have sung: 'Save us, 0 Lord our God: and gather us from among the nations.”- Augustine of Hippo, Sermon 198 “There are some who observe omens on the Calends of January in such a way that they do not give fire or any kind of favor from their household to one who asks it, but they both accept diabolical gifts from others and themselves give them to others. On the very eve of this feast there also are some simple men who set their little tables full of many things which are necessary to eat, and they want to keep them arranged this way throughout the night, believing that in this way the Calends of January can benefit them, so that throughout the year their banquets will continue with such plenty. Now because, as it is written, "a little yeast can affect the entire dough," these deeds and others similar to them, which it would take too long to mention but which the ignorant believe are either small sins or no sins at all, you should command to be removed from your households. Moreover, command them to observe these calends in the same way as they are wont to regard those of other months. If anyone wills to observe any practice from the custom of pagans on these days, it must be feared that the name of Christian will not be able to help them.”- Caesarius of Arles, Sermon 192 But what sort of thing is this--that, rising early, everybody goes out into the street with a little gift (that is, with a new year's gift) and, when he is about to greet a friend, greets him with a present before he does with a kiss, offering his lips to the other's lips while placing his hand in the other's hand? He does not return a sign of love but perform an office of avarice, with one and the same action embracing his friend and deceiving him. Judge for yourselves how venal this kiss iS, for the more dearly it is purchased the more basc it is considered. Before gold' how many of the better sort of people are judged unwor- thy of a kiss! After gold has shone in the hand it is booty and not favor that makes them worthy. But how unjust this is in its very wickedness--that an inferior is expected to make a gift to his better and that one who perhaps borrows in order to give is forced to give to some- one who is rich! Yet they call this generosity new year's giving, although more prompt. A poor wretch, I say, is forced to give what he does not have, and to make the gift he must abandon his obedient sons." Those who are wealthy, however, are also free-giving in their generosity, yet neither are they themselves unstained by sin. For a wealthy person who would have disdained to give a beggar a denarius gives a solidus' to someone who is rich, and on the kalends someone who came to church on the Lord's birthday empty-handed and without anything hastens to his friend's house laden with gold. You see, then, that present flattery counts for more in the eyes of many than does a future reward: they prefer the kiss of their betters to the glory of the Savior. This kiss ought not to be called a kiss because it is venal, for Judas Iscariot kissed the Lord with just such a kiss, but in doing this he sought to betray Him."-Maximus of Turin "Sermons on the Kalends of January" “No Christian should be concerned about which day he leaves home or which day he returns because God has made all days. No influence attaches to the first work of the day or the [phase of the] moon; nothing is ominous or ridiculous about the Calends of January. [Do not] make [figures of?] vetulas, little deer or iotticos or set tables at night or exchange New Year's gifts or supply superfluous drinks. No Christian believes impurity or sits in incantation because the work is diabolic.”- Audoin of Rouen, The Life of St. Eligius Book 2 Ch. 16 “After eight days were completed, the child was circumcised, and He was given the name Jesus. Lords and ladies, today is the first day of the year, which is called New Year's Day. On this day, it is customary for the wicked Christians, following the custom of the pagans, to perform sorceries and divinations. Through these sorceries and their divinations, they seek to know the future. Today, they are accustomed to listening to evil people and putting their faith in omens; they used to say that no one would be prosperous in the year unless they received gifts today. But we must leave those things that pertain to folly and disbelief and strive to accomplish those things that pertain to eternal life."- Maurice of Sully, “On the Circumcision of the Lord”
How Saturnalia Led to Christmas Thanks to the Roman Empire’s conquests in Britain and the rest of Europe from the second century B.C. to the fourth century A.D.-and their suppression of older seasonal rites practiced by the Celts and other groups-today’s Western cultures derive many of their traditional celebrations of midwinter from Saturnalia. The Christian holiday of Christmas, especially, owes many of its traditions to the ancient Roman festival, including the time of year Christmas is celebrated. The Bible does not give a date for Jesus’ birth; in fact, some theologians have concluded he was probably born in spring, as suggested by references to shepherds and sheep in the Nativity story. But by the fourth century A.D., Western Christian churches settled on celebrating Christmas on December 25, which allowed them to incorporate the holiday with Saturnalia and other popular pagan midwinter traditions. Is Christmas a Pagan Holiday? Pagans and Christians co-existed (though not always happily) during this period, and this likely represented an effort to convince the remaining pagan Romans to accept Christianity as Rome’s official religion. Before the end of the fourth century, many of the traditions of Saturnalia-including giving gifts, singing, lighting candles, feasting and merrymaking-had become absorbed by the traditions of Christmas as many of us know them today.
Jesus pbuh didn't celebrate Christmas, or decorated houses with Evergreen pine trees, or celebrated his birthday by giving gifts, or went into chimneys wearing red robes & put gifts under trees - then from where did these customs started? If it's not paganism, then it must be innovation. Still seems like a *chamge/corruption in the religion* to me. 🙄
Interesting. So on your birthday we should give gifts to people that werw not even born on the same day as you? Make it make any sense to me that on Jesus' birthday we give gifts to each other and not to him?
Did Jesus not tell us to love our neighbor as we love ourselves? Giving gifts to our neighbors out of the goodness of our hearts would fulfill that commandment splendidly, as well as the fact we honor Christ on that day which would honor his first commandment.
@@grubblewubbles Jesus asked we remember his death… not his birth., Luke 22:19 - And He took the bread, gave thanks and broke it, and gave it to them, saying, “This is My body, given for you; do this in remembrance of Me.” BSB
So it’s just a coincidence that Christmas and Sol Incictus are the same day? That many of the traditions of saturnial were adopted for Christmas. Then over the centuries as more pagans were converted to Christianity, more pagan traditions were added to Christmas? That seems more like they were trying to make Christianity more palatable for pagans, than a huge coincidence??
@@DarkBladeShdw that’s not true. Where did you hear that? They celebrated the rebirth of the sun (their god) on the day that the days start getting longer. Then switched the sun for the true Son of God when they became Christian.
Christmas was banned by the early Christians. But Christianity gets a new update every now and then to please and get mass adopting. Jesus v Paul- who has the most followers?
@@thesmokecriminal5395 mass adoption only happened after Jesus. Even miracles granted to Jesus peace be upon him would not open Roman pagans and such society yet Paul does it. Paul is the villain who mixed truth and falsehood, and they did not stop. For example, he preached Jesus will returb in his life time.
@@rwleif Are you joking? Maybe you're young and inexperienced. Let me help you Mistletoe is relevant to several cultures. Pagan cultures regarded the white berries as symbols of male fertility, with the seeds resembling semen. The Celts saw mistletoe as the semen of Taranis, while the Ancient Greeks referred to mistletoe as "oak sperm". Also in Roman mythology, mistletoe was used by the hero Aeneas to reach the underworld. It have played an important role in Druidic mythology in the Ritual of Oak and Mistletoe. It is possible that mistletoe was originally associated with human sacrifice and only became associated with the white bull after the Romans banned human sacrifices. The Romans associated mistletoe with peace, love and understanding and hung it over doorways to protect the household. In the Christianity, mistletoe in the became associated with Christmas as a decoration under which lovers are expected to kiss, as well as with protection from witches and demons. Mistletoe continued to be associated with fertility and vitality in Middle Ages, and by the 18th century it had also become part of Christmas celebrations around the world. So, does it have pagan roots?
@@americanlostinvietnam3721 Does the Christmas tradition of kissing under a mistletoe have pagan roots? No. Did mistletoe have significance in pagan customs that had nothing to do with Christmas? Yes.
