Did the Apostles Die for a Lie? 

Maybe

Best comment!

They believed. To them, it was _not_ a lie. Objectively, they were mistaken because there was no spaceship (let alone the one they expected).

Didn't they mutilate themselves first?

@@julietfischer5056 right, that’s my point. A willingness to die for a belief is not proof that said belief is objectively true

I was just about to comment on this but yeah. Whenever people say nobody would die for a lie because they genuinely believe Jesus rose from the dead, I can't help but think of other religious people who died for their religion. But Christian apologists will still parrot this ( idk why but this reminded me of David Wood's recent video on this very topic)

True

The Bible says a lot of odd stuff that isn't true or doesn't make sense

​@@Theleaver5088Nazi's, Japanese death cultists, Waco, TX, ...

​@anakinskywalker5088 If you look into the story of Joesph Smith, founder of the church of Jesus christ of latter day saints. It was clear that he was making things up to go into a power trip and got in too deep and couldn't back out.

Yep. Plenty of cultists have died for their beliefs, and I really don't think Christians would be willing to grant the validity of their belief any points for that.

They really overestimate the number of people who would have had to be in on the lie for it to begin as a lie. Not that it had to be a deliberate lie by even the first person who said it; the point is the number of people who would have had to be claiming to have seen a resurrected Jesus could easily have been as low as 2.

Well said, well said

Well not really because even If they know its a lie they could still have been willing to lay down they're lives for a variety of theological or cultural reasons, or simply to maintain they're own reputation after the lie is exposed. Also anyone who has died in religious warfare in the name of faith has pretty much died for a lie.

They couldn't have not known it was a lie because they were saying that they themselves saw the risen Jesus. You cannot say that, not knowing if what you're saying is true or not.

Even if the humanity were dead in that same generation because of, let's say, an asteroid, that still wouldn't demonstrate they were predicting anything.

Just gotta redefine what a generation is, just like with the "days" of creation

@@shaunelliott8583 let's redefine then all the words and the facts of the world so that the bible can be really called inerrant.

@@Muladeseis nah let's just redefine "inerrant" lol

Generation, during those events started->till the end a generation won’t pass.

Yikes

1400's version is flagged by the youtube censors.

Now there’s a gem!

89 reasons why the rapture will be in 1989! lol (he actually made a sequel)

When the rapture happens, you fiends will claim the aliens did it. Seriously, you people are horrible.

Like the Muslim pilots during 9/11

People can be sincerely mistaken, and often are. Not everything that is false is "a lie."

If you believe a lie enough, you believe it’s fact. It’s simple but very true.

This isnt true, but religious wise sure.

@@miloofcroton1069- If you _tell_ a lie often enough, you come to believe it. Nobody dies for something they _know_ is a lie unless there's some sort of gain for their side.

That's because you don't know the truth.

@@crabb9966 No I don't. Did I claim to know the truth?

@@brianew how do you know you would not die for it if you have no idea?

A better question is how can someone claim the truth but can't show it to be true.

@@tornay131 you can't show to me that you have a mind. However do you believe that such a proposition "i have a mind" is true?

This sentence is so stupid it blows my mind. You're twisting this complex event into an idiot balloon. It wasn't a lie They died for, they died for the truth. They died because they witnessed a man who could resurrect the dead and be resurrected from the dead, they died preaching his good news because it's the entire point of our existence. It's the glory of God they died for. And they did it without fear or bitterness. Christians don't care if you mock us for believing it. We believe it because we experience Jesus Christ in a way you can't even begin to understand. You have to desire God for Christ to save you. Or you will never be saved. Never.

Or people who think dying for the lie will protect something they value more than their own life...

​@@aralornwolf3140 I've said this too. I swear, it's like Christians can't think. It's just a softball question.

Why the UPA flag?

@@rageplays549 why do you use your pfp?

In fairness, many kamikaze pilots did not go willingly.

in fairness, christians are talking about the original disciples and paul. even later martyrdoms don't fit the bill of coercion by force, blind faith, or to enact harm on other people. these people died hearing about events that happened in a particular time, amplified by how the disciples and paul died for what they claimed to have seen. it was either a lie by 13 or so people and they all happen to be bold enough to take it to the grave, or they had group hallucinations happening to them over and over again at the perfect time in history to have them happen.

@@ChevySamk You're assuming a lot there, including that there actually were 12 disciples and that they and Paul really were executed for their beliefs. Those are not established historical facts. The disciples are characters in stories of mostly unknown authorship and origin - stories that have inconsistencies both with each other and with known facts. For example, we know that the census which is a central part of the Jesus birth narrative never happened. The deaths of these alleged disciples and of Paul are matters of church tradition, not historical record. They also don't hold up to scrutiny, as the video you're commenting on made very clear.

It's the Main issue in why wars keep happening and education is unfunded

Even as a NON-Christian I’m having trouble keeping my temper here because everyone is missing the point. The question is would the apostles die for what THEY THEMSELVES know is a lie, ie a story they fabricated about Jesus’ coming back from the dead to visit them.

was going to comment the exact same thing -- "Short answer: Yes" 🤣

Porgy & Bess, "It ain't necessarily so."

@@pineapplepenumbra That's what I say.

Just take a heroic dose of the flesh of the gods. atheism won't be necessary any longer. You won't need faith you will have been baptized by the holy Spirit of experience of the divine. 😂🤣😹😸💪🧘

@@apocalypze83 Which Holy Spirit?

@@apocalypze83 Just checking, you were joking, right?

I went through this after my dad died. I was also on anti-depressants that really increased the acuity of my dreams, I would believe that my dad and grandfather were not dead, and I'd wake up and have a really hard time differentiating between what I dreamed about and what was real. We had sold our father's house and I would dream that I went back to the house after the new homeowners had moved in, that felt super real too, I actually believed I had done it, it was a surreal experience.

Exactly! My theory is that Jesus stayed dead and someone stole the body from the tomb. Then a few of his followers dreamed of/hallucinated Jesus. If he truly came back from being death, there would be another part of the Bible capturing his life after his death.

Losing someone or something can have deep impacts, so our minds try to compensate by thinking that we have not lost anything, sadly that isn't true.

I had to sleep in the same room as my brother when growing up. Finally moving out, I was awoken by heavy breathing in a house on my own!!! I can't tell you how scary that is. It took months to work out: Oh its just in my mind from growing up and hearing this every night! Imagine waking up hearing breathing in a house where no one else is? I even held my breath to prove to myself it wasn't me, but still heard it!!!! After I finally worked out it was the exact sound of my brother, it began to wear off, I haven't heard it for decades now. Immature people tend to jump to conclusions. Imagine if a parent were there too, and the parent said: OH that's the Jesus monster. Subsequently getting confirmation bias over a complete lie.

​@@krembrylethere was no tomb, he was thrown into a mass grave like every other criminal tortured to death by crucifixion not because theres any concrete evidence, hell theres barely evidence that jesus was ever real, but because logically why would he ever be entombed in the first place, standard procedure was to break their legs to check if they died and throw em in a pit with the others, other than to add legitimacy to later claims of his resurrection.

yeah, they are

Not even that, just airbrushed from history. Along with the vast majority of martyrs for other religions.

Everyone is missing the point, the question is if the apostles would die for what they themselves know is a lie, ie a story they fabricated about meeting a resurrected Jesus.

​@@Dennis-nc3vw founder of Heaven's Gate killed himself when he told his followers to take poison so they could be transported to space ship...

There's an even bigger lies that Western Atheist Liberals believe: "People kill for their religion". In truth, people kill in the name of religion to gain material interests. Religions and ideologies are but tools, not a goal.

Or for example Jim Jones and the massive "life subscription terminations" he provoked in Jonestown in 1978 if not mistaken. So yeah, history is full of people that have died over a lie.

Joseph Smith died for a lie HE TOLD

I didn’t know they castrated themselves. 😮

@@karenabrams8986 No. I never heard that part, either. I'm skeptical.

@@donnievance1942 Some did, but not all. It also wasn't all of the members who ...uuh, "went to meet the mothership". Saw that in some docu I don't remember the name of. I'm sure if you Google the cult name you will find this info to be correct 🙂

Peter asked to be crucified upside-down because he (purportedly) did not think himself worthy of dying just like Jesus did.

@@julietfischer5056 The irony is that being crucified upside down is probably worse. I can’t imagine what that does to the organs. Plus plenty of people have died worse deaths than Jesus, yet that somehow doesn’t cleanse them of their sins in the afterlife

​@@flameone4705 I've pointed out to numerous Christians that many people have suffered worse deaths than Jesus. The majority of them are flabbergasted that I'd even insinuate such an idea. Then after I give details some will concede a bit by saying , "Yeah , humans have suffered but none have raised from the dead except their Savior." Such logic ! Such empathy. 🤡 They just can't wrap their head around a single truth that invalidates their previous beliefs. It's a cult mentality.

@@julietfischer5056 I guess you didn't listen to the video. Peter was reported to have died that way. There is no actual evidence that was the case.

@@donnievance1942- That's how the story goes. No evidence that it happened or that the Romans would have honored such a request. (It does make a fun way to mess with the sort of people who think an inverted cross is inherently Satanic.)

Actually Satan in the Bible is more reliable than the god described in the same book 😂

​@@SeorkMaxxSatan is the God of the Bible. It's obvious that after Adam and Eve disobeyed Him, God decided to abandon his creation and then Satan took over as "God". The evidence? He messed around with Abram asking him to sacrifice his son before going "psych, jk", he appeared to Moses as a burning bush (burning, and who rules a realm of eternal flame?), he committed genocide upon humans and only left enough behind to make sure we were all inbred. Obviously all evil acts that must have been committed by the most evil character, right?

But if it is the bible, Satan wrote that story. But if the bible is written by Satan, Satan would be god, but then he wouldn't be tempting Jesus and not write the story.

Do you know what's weird, Satan/devil/dragon is none other than YHWH, the God of the Christians, Stews, and Muslims. According to the Jesus speaking in John 8:44. You just can't make this stuff up, it's crazy.

The Christian idea that the New Testament was written by eyewitnesses to Jesus' life are ignoring, not only the temptation story, but that it would have been impossible for the disciples of Jesus to have witnessed the circumstances of Jesus' birth, his prayer to God alone in the garden of Gethsemane, or been able to vouch for Jesus' mother being a virgin.

People often say, “I’m not hurting anyone so it’s ok to sin (lying, stealing, sexual sins, disrespecting parents etc)” The same God who said to love your neighbour first said to love Him to the best of your ability. If you carry on sinning, then you do not love God but are selfish like the devil so you will be joined to your father in hell or repent of your sins and believe in Jesus as God so Jesus adopts you as His child and you will join Him in Heaven forever.

@@thereisnonegoodbutgodjohn363 yes it's selfish not to worship and love a narcacistsic asshole who hates love.

They probably were. Take into account that the Israelites at the time were extremely zealous in comparison to other ancient peoples at the time, they had their own concept of absolute truth, which before the Law was fulfilled, would have been the law and the prophets. They would have had even more reason than anyone today to be skeptical of all of the things that Jesus was claiming, because from their youth they were brought up with their own beliefs. Not a single one of them would have had any reason to readily give up their law and prophets, unless they were met with absolute undeniable proof that Jesus Christ is the Living God. One of Jesus' apostles even had a nickname, 'doubting thomas', because he refused to believe that the Lord was resurrected until he saw him risen with his own two eyes. This is where the scripture 'blessed are those who have believed without having seen' comes from.

@@iodias really? The same people that were following other such religious leaders around the time? Yeah sorry they were not special in being extra skeptical.

@@iodias In heaven no unclean person is allowed in, you are unclean if you have sinned just once like lying, stealing, sexual immorality, taking the Lord’s Name in vain, evil thoughts etc Jesus (God manifest in the flesh) can put his sinless righteousness on you since He died on the cross, rose from the dead so REPENT AND BELIEVE IN HIM TODAY.

Notice also they are called martyrs by those who need justifications for their very own motives. For all we know, they were mostly criminals from their enemy's point of view. That's why those enemies got through the trouble to kill them.

except when those martyrs are the ones who originally spread the message and not out of sheer faith but what they unanimously claimed to have seen.

@@ChevySamk by that standard, anyone who died for their beliefs automatically makes their beliefs true like muslim martyrs, hare krishna, etc.

​@@ChevySamkbuy how do you know they were martyred for what they believed in? Do you have anything we can verify?

depends on the martyr

I have been saying that for years. Also people who really need to see Idiocracy will never understand that they are Cletus.

Why do we need to see them? What's the end game? What's the benefit of abandoning God for these lies?

​@@LiftUpYourEyesyou didn't listen right ? Are you for real ? Open up your eyes ,your theology is flawed !

I guess you think I should watch it. I didn't find it too valuable

​@@crabb9966why not you're here already? Also if your beliefs are true, they should be able to stand simple forward scrutiny.

In heaven no unclean person is allowed in, you are unclean if you have sinned just once like lying, stealing, sexual immorality, taking the Lord’s Name in vain, evil thoughts etc Jesus (God manifest in the flesh) can put his sinless righteousness on you since He died on the cross, rose from the dead so REPENT AND BELIEVE IN HIM TODAY.

@@thereisnonegoodbutgodjohn363 absolute rubbish. Paul failed apocalypse. The end did not come in his day!

@@chaiman3761 God through the Holy Spirit has shown me several things relating to the afterlife with the purpose of convincing people like yourself. Stuff like Heaven and Hell, Angels, and evil Spirits the Lord Jesus (not worthy at all), a miracle happened to me that saved my life (thank you God) & so much more. I am more than happy to give further details.

@@chaiman3761 Jesus loves you and wants to save you from the fiery pit

@@thereisnonegoodbutgodjohn363 the bible is not univocal. The scriptures have changed over time with a of editing.

@@Toxicpoolofreekingmascul-lj4yd Google the Sikh Martyrs 🤕

​@Toxicpoolofreekingmascul-lj4yd Suicide bombers. Jihadists. That's a great example of dying for a lie.

The only thing I can remember about sikhs is the storming of the temple (it might be Amritsar, I would have to look it up). What don't I know about sikhs dying horribly, that you do?

Don't forget the s*cidal cults... We have all the evidence in the world on those and it still doesn't make them less bs.

You need to do a little critical thinking here. If you live in a country where you’ll be killed for NOT being Muslim, what’s the difference if you die for it. It doesn’t matter over there. Islam is all they know. The apostles on the other hand, were not raised Christian. They chose to follow Jesus instead of being normal. They chose to be persecuted, it wasn’t forced upon them. But they believed him as the truth because they saw. Think before you speak

@@selliri590the only reason you wrote all of this is because you didn’t watch the video

@@spacebook8923 yes i did. I just think his points are illogical

Even outside religion. The Nazis thought god was with them and died for nothing because they thought they're the superior race and the Fuhrer is god representative on earth. They too died for a lie.

People often say, “I’m not hurting anyone so it’s ok to sin (lying, stealing, sexual sins, disrespecting parents etc)” The same God who said to love your neighbour first said to love Him to the best of your ability. If you carry on sinning, then you do not love God but are selfish like the devil so you will be joined to your father in hell or repent of your sins and believe in Jesus as God so Jesus adopts you as His child and you will join Him in Heaven forever.

@@thereisnonegoodbutgodjohn363 you even like your own comment how pitiful however your word salad means nothing here. The people talking like you are the most evil sinful selfish people out there. If you're so holy become a new saint. Pharisee.

@@thereisnonegoodbutgodjohn363 are you just a troll or you actually believe this? because if you actually believe in it, then i can't do anything other than to feel sorry for you.

@@o-hogameplay185 I don't simply believe i know God through the Holy Spirit has shown me several things relating to the afterlife with the purpose of convincing people like yourself. Stuff like Heaven and Hell, Angels, and evil Spirits the Lord Jesus (not worthy at all), a miracle happened to me that saved my life (thank you God) & so much more. I am more than happy to give further details.

I wonder why lies don't wear shoes?

@@ChrisPylebecause lies don’t care about standards

A lie will go viral on three different social media platforms while the truth gets buried by the algorithm.

Millions upon millions of human beings, likely including many who were martyred before the advent of the written word for beliefs that have been forever lost to time and knowledge.

I guess the Aztecs were right then.

*Soviet anthem starts playing*

...and the people they killed.

This is a false equivalency

jesus likely did exist. but if you actually went back and met the guy (assuming you were christian) youd probably be deeply disappointed.

@@robertmccormack1208 Most likely. You don't even have to assume the 5th option to point out the problems. Option 5 was just a bonus I threw out after the others.

If Jesus could work all those miracles, why didn't He write his own book?

I believe that the myth of Jesus is the greatest lie ever sold.

​@@rosemarymceathron4037No, the greatest lie was that beliefs should be politicized

Most of them believed in the regimes, to one degree or another. Others were caught up and had no choice.

​@@julietfischer5056 Believing in a lie does not make it truth.

@@julietfischer5056 And who says that the so called apostles had a chance? Scenario A: They were 100% convinced and died as martyrs. That's the church story. Scenario B: They knew it was a grift but after propagating it for so long they convinced themselves of their own righteousness and still died as martyrs. Scenario C: The knew it was a grift and tried to profit from it. The authorities that arrested them didn't give a speck about them recanting their stories and just disposed of them anyway. Scenario D: It's all made up nonsense. There are infinite scenarios where you can die for a lie. This whole "No one would die for a lie" thing is just post hoc rationalization and everyone with a functioning unwashed brain should see it as such.

I agree US solders are really pathetic, dying for the lie of Uncle Sam

why do you do that? Those regimes are proven to exist. The g0d is not even defined, let alone shown to exist. The analogy is flawed. Of course, that won't help any fan of any mythology, but you cannot really use a flawed analogy to support your argument, either.

🎯💯‼️

I don't think the analogy is one to one. The question isn't can believers die for something they believe but is false? The question is can someone believe something is false, lie about it, but then die for it anyways?

@@jeremyhansen9197 Or they can be deluded, they don't have to know they are lying.

@@jeremyhansen9197 The answer is an easy yes. The only sources we have on them "dying" for their beliefs is what the church tells us. For all we know, they could've recanted their statements and spillt the beans before being disposed of anyway. That whole thing is still just another story in a book full of made up stories.

​@@jeremyhansen9197 I see, but I think the problem here is: How do we know that these believers *knew* that what they're teaching is actually false? Let's say I claim Flying Spaghetti Monster is real. If I claim this while fully being aware that it's not true - I am literally lying to you. If I claim this while being fully convinced that it IS true - I am not necessarily lying per se, but I AM stating something that's false and unknowingly spreading misinformation. Now would I be ready to die in the first scenario? Very unlikely.. so I think it would apply to those apostles too, although I don't believe they were 'lying' really.. like I said earlier I think they were deeply convinced it was the truth, but if they died to push a lie, they might be downright fanatical or crazy.

@@jeremyhansen9197 Even if they're not deluded, there comes a time where you are just in too deep. You've become the leader of a cult, that is outlawed, you've been captured, at that point there's nothing left. Look at the Heaven's Gate cult, look at Jonestown. Did those leaders believe that they genuinely were prophets of god? Were they crazy, did they convince themselves, or did they not believe and just lie? Whatever the case, the fact is, the mentality that you will die for the cult you created is definitely a thing.

Most of their 'questions' aren't searches for answers or information. They already 'know' they have the answers and think constantly asking things and making statements will somehow make all others give in and convert.

I'd like to agree, but given "how" they question LGBT people and evolution and other belief systems I'd say it's not a rational questioning but rather a very simple "I don't like it, therefore it must be wrong" scenario.

They just get mad and shutdown unfortunately....i think they perceive a threat to their identity

@@julietfischer5056 Yeah, it seems their questions are more rhetorical. But at least it shows they do not just accept anything someone tells them. Maybe videos and channels like this can cause them to question aspects of their religion in the right way.

@@Finckelstein You have a point. It does come more from an angle of prejudice rather than genuine curiosity to get to the truth. However, if videos like this one DarkMatter made can get them to not like some aspects of their religion and start to question those things, that would at least be a start.

Yuk😮

I thought I saw an arm that was THUMBING its way around!!!

You know, I was just morbidly interested in that until the Holy High Five. Now I feel like I need to make it happen, I hope the feeling passes because that is probably outside my ability to budget for.

The cannibalistic blood cult just keeps finding ways to be morbid.

Just googled that cos thought you were joking! Fuck me! In 2024! 🙄

In heaven no unclean person is allowed in, you are unclean if you have sinned just once like lying, stealing, sexual immorality, taking the Lord’s Name in vain, evil thoughts etc Jesus (God manifest in the flesh) can put his sinless righteousness on you since He died on the cross, rose from the dead so REPENT AND BELIEVE IN HIM TODAY.

@@thereisnonegoodbutgodjohn363 No.

In heaven no unclean person is allowed in, you are unclean if you have sinned just once like lying, stealing, sexual immorality, taking the Lord’s Name in vain, evil thoughts etc Jesus (God manifest in the flesh) can put his sinless righteousness on you since He died on the cross, rose from the dead so REPENT AND BELIEVE IN HIM TODAY.

@@thereisnonegoodbutgodjohn363 any actual truth doesnt fear the hard questions, because the truth can answer any question right? ... so take the blinkers off and ask your religion the hard questions. Ask for evidence of ANY of its magical claims. Look at the historicity of its 'holy' book. Become a skeptic and demand evidence for all claims. Just as you demand evidence for the claims of the religions you dont believe in, do the same for your own. Your religion wont mind, because its true right? - the reality of the answers might shock you

@@thereisnonegoodbutgodjohn363 No.

@@extrage3061 People underestimate hell, it is bad because it is separation from God. In a vision I was shown a person who claimed to be Christian but started fornication (premarital sex), He died relatively young and went to hell forever (1 Cor 6:9). God’s holiness means He will not coexist with sinners forever therefore Repent (Luke 13:3) and have a relationship with Jesus.

And fearful of being cast out of a community for opposing views. Which back in the day was a reasonable fear. Today not so much.

In heaven no unclean person is allowed in, you are unclean if you have sinned just once like lying, stealing, sexual immorality, taking the Lord’s Name in vain, evil thoughts etc Jesus (God manifest in the flesh) can put his sinless righteousness on you since He died on the cross, rose from the dead so REPENT AND BELIEVE IN HIM TODAY.

@@thereisnonegoodbutgodjohn363 No.

@@extrage3061 Receive the love of God or the Hate of the devil. Be Holy or be sinful. Choose light or stay in the darkness. Be selfless or selfish. Life or death. Right or wrong. Win or lose. Sins forgiven or spend eternity paying for your sins. Heaven or Hell. Choose life, choose Jesus today.

In heaven no unclean person is allowed in, you are unclean if you have sinned just once like lying, stealing, sexual immorality, taking the Lord’s Name in vain, evil thoughts etc Jesus (God manifest in the flesh) can put his sinless righteousness on you since He died on the cross, rose from the dead so REPENT AND BELIEVE IN HIM TODAY.

@@thereisnonegoodbutgodjohn363 No.

In heaven no unclean person is allowed in, you are unclean if you have sinned just once like lying, stealing, sexual immorality, taking the Lord’s Name in vain, evil thoughts etc Jesus (God manifest in the flesh) can put his sinless righteousness on you since He died on the cross, rose from the dead so REPENT AND BELIEVE IN HIM TODAY.

@@thereisnonegoodbutgodjohn363 No.

In heaven no unclean person is allowed in, you are unclean if you have sinned just once like lying, stealing, sexual immorality, taking the Lord’s Name in vain, evil thoughts etc Jesus (God manifest in the flesh) can put his sinless righteousness on you since He died on the cross, rose from the dead so REPENT AND BELIEVE IN HIM TODAY.

@@thereisnonegoodbutgodjohn363 No.

What's even worse, the central message of sacrifice in their religion is far, far flimsier. Every mother that ever gave birth to a child sacrificed infinitely more than Jesus supposedly did. Heck, everyone who gave a homeless person any amount of money sacrificed more than him. This whole "He gave his life for us" narrative is so hilarious. Sure, the immortal, eternal god took a nap for a few hours and then went on to be an almighty god again. Where is the sacrifice? He didn't give up ANYTHING but a bit of his time - of which he has an infinite amount. Unlike us humans.

Father Damien ministered to the leper colony on Molokai, eventually succumbing to the disease in 1873. He TRULY sacrificed his life, because he was not able to take it up again. He could not miraculously heal the lepers, like Jesus, so he knew what the ultimate cost would be. What makes this a cruel joke is, that same year, Dr. Hanson discovered the cause and cure for the disease. God didn't even deign to introduce the two!

@@AuroraBoarder1 Imagine the amazing work that could've been accomplished if the cure was discovered before Father Damien died from it. Mysterious ways I guess?

@@FinckelsteinYou see Finckestein that is how fools speaks not knowing anything

Star Wars is so good

Yes, the fourth is always present.

Indeed! May the fourth be with you ALL DAY LONG!And that's a "high four" for y'all.

This is a hokey religion! I'll allow it though.

But not all of them but many of them would and have died for a lie. Sad wasted lives.

Absolutely. There is nothing that is a priori credible just because it's written in 2000 year old books of magical fables and religious accounts. It's not even necessary to show that the accounts are mutually contradictory or otherwise unreliable, although I thank DarkMatter for doing that anyway. Not believing any of this horse$h!t is simply the default position. The principle involved is called "the priority of the null hypothesis." It was expressed by Christopher Hitchens as "whatever can be put forward without evidence can be dismissed without evidence." One thing I've noticed so far in these comments is that while there are Christians trying to justify the narratives of the saint's martyrdom, none of them are even trying to accomplish that by bringing forward any actual evidence. There is none, and DarkMatter has made that almost irrefutable.

I think that Paulogia said there were at least 3 accounts.

@@gsp3428 We have one extra-Biblical account from Josephus, but it says nothing about offering James the chance to recant. He was just stoned. The Biblical accounts are, well Biblical.

Waco isn't quite the same, those people were murdered; they didn't die for their beliefs, they died because some people wanted to score political points.

Haha even if you believe they were murdered at Waco then this even more closely follows the bullshit in this book. Those people had days to surrender and they didn't. They died for their second coming pastor and set the fires themselves.

@@matthewwukitch3735 They tried to surrender almost immediately, the feds shot at them. Remember also that they hadn't even been told what exactly they were supposed to have done wrong, because the feds made up those charges. From their perspective, a government agent lets lip to one of them that they were gonna roll up in force to their compound, they prepared for it, the feds did show up and told him to come out, then when he did come out, they immediately fired at him and wounded him. At that point, it probably seemed to them exactly what it was - an execution. For, once again, absolutely nothing. They also obviously did not set the fire themselves, that's just stupid.

Do I sense a future collaboration coming up?

I just saw a reel on insta from Christians making a joke about the disciples stealing the body and was reminded of this video. Love your videos 👍

Good for you. I'm still waiting on mine

sure. And then, although you KNEW that it was not just a mental episode, you CHOSE not to present the methodology. But you had it, right? Very clear, well defined criteria and some tons of very detailed tests to exclude EVERY mindtrick known to mankind. Right? too bad you are not all over the news with your (no doubt) very detailed research. We could know how you excluded all the known mental illnesses, all the unknown ones, and all other deities. F.e. Loki, who (as a trickster g0d) can "obviously" have some fun with your brain. "personal revalati0n" LOL

Press X to doubt, but I hope you get cured of your mental illness if true.

How was that personal revelation?

@@pabloaute4355 it's personal bro. He can't talk about it

I was taught that. It doesn't explain why they don't know the year Jesus was born.

But the fact every society dictates their calendars around Christ is stupid weird.

​@@justice8718Not every society does. 4 countries recognize alternate date keeping systems. Iran, Afghanistan, Ethiopia, and Nepal. The rest of the world, especially those colonised from European Houses of Christendom, uses the Gregorian calander. The Islamic Hijri says it is 1445 AH The Hebrew calander says it is AM 5784 The Ethiopian calander says it is 2016 AD The Nepali Bikram Sambat says it is 2081 Bikram. The Hebrew calander is used in conjunction with the Gregorian calander when scheduling dates for both secular and religious holidays in the country. Iran, Afghanistan, and a few of the nomadic tribes use the Hijri.

@@shadegreen5351 So you look for scraps of a lie to escape to? That’s so atheist.

I had a person ask me with a straight face "How is it possible that uncontacted tribes don't know about Jesus? Haven't they ever asked themselves what it's been 2,000 years since?" She also asked "Why can't we just dissect the brains of fetuses so we can tell their parents if they're going to grow up to be gay or trans or whatever?"

If you learn about the history of Japanese lords and crimes they did every day, dying for honor does qualify as a lie.

@@Wastingsometimehere I'm aware of the history. You are missing the point. It's one's own opinion what "honor" means, but it's not a "lie". Clearly they were convinced. I may not agree with others on what that means. But if they are willing to slice open their own bellies and endure such pain for arbitrary reasons means I wouldn't put much credence on anyone dying for any reason. The apologists talking point on this is moot

What was their faith based upon?

I'm not convinced that nobody would die for what they believe to be a lie. Why not? What if it would accomplish something they believe would outweigh their death?

@@pythondrinkQuestion is who have balls to do that

@@Bojan12 ppl who have framed themselves as a criminal in order to save someone else they acre about for starters

I was forced into the Christian cult as a young teen and stayed in it for 30 years even though I questioned. Finally woke up and decided it was time to quit the cult and just live in reality.

God didn’t even get humans right, he had to start over….. Sounds silly to me😂

Do not speak like fools but become wise

@@Bojan12 Saying the words "fool" and "wise" does not make you intelligent.

@@extrage3061 Actually it does

I think there were apostles, like asking if Abraham lincoln existed, maybe that was a lie.

We have proof that Lincoln existed, but don't have that for apostoles

​@@Thinkingperson927Paul's letters confirm it

makes no sense.

That's what I thought, as someone from a majorly Orthodox Christian country myself.

😂😂😂😂

@@Toxicpoolofreekingmascul-lj4yd "If they existed they witnessed it all." None of the disciples ("apostles" is a term applying to early proselytizers of the Christian faith, but not all of them necessarily Jesus' direct disciples) could plausibly have witnessed the circumstances of Jesus' birth, his temptation by Satan on a mountaintop, his prayers to God alone in the Garden of Gethsemane, or have had any way of corroborating that his mother was a virgin, or any of the fabulous details surrounding his birth. Furthermore, mainstream scholarship does not credit the idea that any of Jesus' disciples were the writers of the Gospels. These identifications were discretionarily assigned much later by early church patriarchs. None of the Gospels claims in its text to be the writing of the disciples or any other eyewitness, and none of them are even written in the first person. They are, on their face, Greek literary creations, with no evidence that they were even translations from some underlying Aramaic sources. Most of us allow that the initial Christian church was a Judean sect. However, its widespread adoption in the eastern Mediterranean was due to evangelizing work done by Hellenized Jews, notably Paul, an ethnic Jew who was an exponent of the cosmopolitan larger Hellenic world, and possibly even a minor family heir of the Herodian dynasty. Where did he even get the resources to travel all over the Mediterranean evangelizing? Given his frictions and conflicts with the Jerusalem Jesus-cult leadership, it seems unlikely that his resources came from there. He seems to have been independently well-off. There is strong evidence that a messianic proto-Christian cult existed in Judea prior to the time of the putative Jesus. The Dead Sea Scrolls constitute the most substantial part of that evidence, although they didn't employ the name "Jesus" as an identifier of their anticipated messiah. Whether some preacher of that cult ran afoul of authorities and got crucified and later, post-hoc, plugged into the myth as the savior that he was prophesying is speculative and unknown. However, the most rational current interpretation for the ascension of Christianity is that educated and Hellenized Jews of that period spread the cult beyond local boundaries and that the religion is an outcome of syncretization of the local Hebraic cult into the larger framework of personal salvation mystery cults that were a widespread paradigm in the Mediterranean world of that period and much earlier times. Common elements of those cults were salvation from death, everlasting life, atonement for sin through the sacrifice of a divine figure, etc. Examples of those cults were the Osiris and Isis cults originating in Egypt and the Ananna cult of earlier Babylon. The Gospels were a post hoc effort to fill in the biographical narrative of the Jewish savior figure as an earthly human who became euhemerized as a god. They were created by educated writers in Greek, and the extent of the narratives' connections to the life story of any actual human being is entirely unknown and probably unknowable. There are good reasons to doubt almost every anecdotal detail of Jesus' life as given in the Gospels, not least of which is that many of them contradict each other. However, the critique of these putative biographical details goes much further than that. But that's a topic too large for a YT comment.

The ATF wanted to make an example of them, that's why they cornered him in his compound instead of picking him up at the gas station.

They tried to leave the atf executed regardless of what their beliefs were. There were children who were unable to say what they believed and died at Mt caramel

Me too. Even when I was a teenager, after hearing the martyrdom argument for the resurrection of Jesus, I immediately thought: 1."How do we know that they didn't die for something that they merely believed was true but wasn't?" and 2. "How do we know that they actually died under those circumstances anyway?" and 3. "Even if they died under the purported circumstances, how does that substantiate the truth of what they believed?" Anyone who receives those stories without immediately raising those issues is stupid from the get-go. When I heard about the death of the martyrs, even without knowing anything about the debunking evidence DarkMatter put forward here, I made the initial judgement that the whole schtick was so implausible and tenuous as a substantiation of the resurrection that it was not worth my time or intellectual energy to delve into. It's just a ridiculous argument, on its face. It would have to be accompanied with a huge amount of corroborating evidence of several different sorts to be anything else. Particularly, it would have to be accompanied by independent evidence of a different type that the resurrection actually took place. And there is no such thing. There is not sufficient evidence even that a character sufficiently corresponding to "Jesus" ever actually lived or was crucified at all. So, let's say that some religious zealots got killed for a set of wacky beliefs. "Big f**kin' deal!"-- in an historical sense.

@@donnievance1942 Yep, totally agree with all of that. Plus, as others have said, it completely ignores martyrs for other religions or ideologies. If those people died for lies, then so did the Christian martyrs.

I like it too

I don't normally like to correct people but "Holy Humerus" alliterates better and is also anatomically correct 😂

@@roadrunner7545 Thanks for the ‘humerus’ correction - teach my lazy ass to Google first. 🤓

Cool. I live in san diego too !